Post Big Bang BasilMarket Collaborative Project Proposal
[header=1]Introduction[/header]
I am proposing a mass collaborative project between the mathematically capable individuals from each class on BasilMarket in an effort to provide the general population with accurate information pertaining to the classes post the Big Bang revamp.
Why am I proposing this? Because I do not like the current DPS chart on BasilMarket, and there is a lot of inaccurate information going around about the changes that Big Bang brought.
By the end of this project I hope to have achieved the following:
1. Debunk myths about individual classes
2. Provide an accurate DPM chart in both percentage (weighed down to a common weapon multiplier) and damage (using a generally accepted set of equipment equal for all)
3. Provide accurate skill damage percentages
4. Have less, for the lack of a better word, noobs posting "Zomg, x class is gonna pwn@@@"
What I do not want in the project:
1. Inaccurate data or assumptions (besides the ones listed)
2. Manipulation of data such that some classes appear handicapped
3. Arithmetic errors (if it is a mistake, it is fine, but if you do not know how something works, please do not just plug in numbers and go "Oh well")
4. Anything that violates what I have stated above
While this may be true, please do not just post something meaningless like the following:
Mini DPM Chart (current):
1. NX whores
2. Everyone else
Mini DPM Chart (post-BB):
1. NX whores
2. Everyone else
To prove that us Warriors actually have 'intelligence', I shall post my findings first. =P
[header=2]Table of Contents[/header]
[url=http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/1692965/1/Post_Big_Bang_BasilMarket_Collaborative_Project_Proposal.html#1]Introduction[/url]
[url=http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/1692965/1/Post_Big_Bang_BasilMarket_Collaborative_Project_Proposal.html#2]Table of Contents[/url]
[url=http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/1692965/1/Post_Big_Bang_BasilMarket_Collaborative_Project_Proposal.html#3]Members[/url]
[url=http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/1692965/1/Post_Big_Bang_BasilMarket_Collaborative_Project_Proposal.html#4]Guidelines[/url]
[header=3]Members[/header]
[url=http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/1692973/0/Post_Big_Bang_BasilMarket_Collaborative_Project__Warriors.html#]Warriors[/url]:
[url=http://www.basilmarket.com/user/kirayamato26]kirayamato26[/url]
[url=http://www.basilmarket.com/user/AdroxNight]AdroxNight[/url]
Mages:
[url=http://www.basilmarket.com/user/BlizzardSwarm]BlizzardSwarm[/url]
Bowmen:
[url=http://www.basilmarket.com/user/krishy]krishy[/url]
Thieves:
Pirates:
[url=http://www.basilmarket.com/user/rage797]rage797[/url]
Wherever:
[url=http://www.basilmarket.com/user/Takeback3r]Takeback3r[/url]
[url=http://www.basilmarket.com/user/shaddow55]shaddow55[/url]
[header=4]Guidelines[/header]
In order to maintain consistency, I have come up with some guidelines:
1. All steps (besides a few negligible ones) in calculations MUST be shown
2. Instead of generally accepted weapon speeds, use delay values
3. Assume that critical skills function in the way that krumiel0 proposed until we have more solid information
4. Use only skills that the class has - example: do not give SE to a NL - unless it is another dedicated section
5. Weigh skill damage percentages down to the average percentile based on max damage and mastery. This is so that all calculations can be performed using max damage only.
6. Bring percentage activation skills down to an average (Final Attack)
7. For skills that require the user to be hit (Beholder's Revenge, Vengeance), assume that the user is hugging the monster
8. Assume no Critical/Cruel Ring
9. Assume that the character has the maximum possible primary stat and the rest of the AP goes into the secondary stats
10. Do not include the potential system, it is just a multiplier anyways (3% primary stat is almost 3% more damage)
18 Comments • Newest first
[quote=Knight5n1p3r]I see what you're trying to say now. You're not "making the weapon multiplier 1.0", you're factoring it into your skill multiplier instead of the damage range (which doesn't make the weapon multiplier 1, I'm clueless as to why you think it does that). I don't see why you would want to work backwards like that, but it works nonetheless since you end up multiplying the skill multiplier and the damage range anyway. The only problem is that you will not be able to give a correct damage range. I suggest just keeping the weapon multiplier with the damage range like the formula says, there's not advantage at all to multiplying the weapon multiplier to the skill multiplier, when all are going to be different anyway. Whatever floats your boat I suppose.
Still, I completely disagree with your last statement, weapon attack and AP build makes a huge difference. A difference of 300 damage in your range equates to over a half mil in DPM. It is important to keep the AP build and weapon attack values correct down to the wire. Although you may think that providing a single DPM scenario for all class is unbiased, you will find that this is untrue. A change of 1 att to a BM may equate to a 30,000 increase in DPM, but it may make a difference of 70,000 for an NL. Only providing one scenario is inaccurate, as it is biased towards the class that is optimized best for the amount of weapon attack and AP that you choose to use. I'll tell you straight out, if you use 999 AP for the primary stat, you will be holistically favoring NLs, sairs, and all the classes with a higher weapon multiplier. This is the continuing pitfall of nearly every single DPM chart in existence (granted, there aren't many).
NONETHELESS, the DPM section of your project is the easy part, that's simple calculation that a well coded program can spit out in a couple of seconds. The data gathering from in game is really the part of your project that I'm interested in, but it seems that's the section you're paying least attention to.[/quote]
I'm not that interested in the calculations either actually. Every single calculation required for the Warrior DPM %'s was automated by a script that I wrote, and granted it takes just a couple of seconds.
I guess I'll take off guidelines 9 and 10 and replace it with "An AP build that maximizes DPM".
What I saying is that it is fine if you want to pursue other methods, but I want at least the core DPM % figures, and in the end we will fine tune everything for criteria that we will agree on further down the road to include AP, weapon attack, and revamped formulas if there are to be any.
I can produce the program for post and pre BB damages of each class as well as a chart inside said program for damages with/without buffs against monsters/bosses etc...
=D
[quote=Knight5n1p3r]What is this "it" to which you refer to? There is no single number you can apply to all jobs and have it spit out any correlating value whatsoever. Damage is contingent on a host of factors outside just a measly weapon multiplier. Multiplying your final damage % by your weapon multiplier will do nothing, I'm not sure what you mean by that. Your weapon multiplier is a factor in determining your max damage range (and consequently many other things as well), multiplying your final damage% (which by that I'm thinking you mean skill multiplier) by your skill multiplier will do nothing, you need to multiply the skill multiplier by the average of your top and bottom range (which I guarantee you will be different from class to class).
And while I'm at it, I'll debunk a few of your other points,
3. Assume that critical skills function in the way that krumiel0 proposed until we have more solid information
Then what's the point of gathering data in the first place if we're just going to assume something unconfirmed.
4. Use only skills that the class has - example: do not give SE to a NL - unless it is another dedicated section
That's fine and dandy, but knowing the DPM of a NL under SE is far more important than without. The best way to go is apply SE on and off to ALL classes.
5. Weigh skill damage percentages down to the average percentile based on max damage and mastery. This is so that all calculations can be performed using max damage only.
You realize this doesn't make sense. Working only with the max range will make classes with higher mastery get less benefit, not to mention that mastery changes.
8. Assume no Critical/Cruel Ring
Whether you want to or not, Cruel and Critical rings need to be added in.
9. Assume that the character has the maximum possible primary stat and the rest of the AP goes into the secondary stats
No. just no.
10. Do not include the potential system, it is just a multiplier anyways (3% primary stat is almost 3% more damage)
Thats exempting out half the benefit a character can get from equips. Some jobs have better affinity towards weapon attack and stat gains than others, only comparing a single case without potentials will amount to nothing tangible (though this is what so many DPM comparisons do, and insist that what they say is fact).[/quote]
Have you see the post-BB damage formula?
w * (4 * primary stat + secondary stat) / 100 * total attack
Where w is the weapon multiplier.
Minimum damage is max damage * mastery %.
After finding all the skill %'s, if you multiply them by the weapon multiplier, it effectively makes the weapon multiplier 1.0.
3. Use it for now, change your calculations once new data becomes available.
4. I explicitly stated "unless you dedicate a section"; you can do it, but make it clear, VERY clear, that you are using SE.
5. Multiply it by the average percentile (e. g. Brave Slash is 1713.6% on average with Enrage and AC, 2016% max, Heroes have 70% mastery.) since the order of multiplication does not matter, it is better to analyze average skill damage %'s
8. Don't forget that not everyone has one, go ahead and do it if you want, but a version without it is mandatory
As for points 9 and 10, they are explicitly for those who want to calculate a DPM using numbers instead of percents.
At this point in time, I want accurate, GENERAL, information. Meaning, data that is unbiased in every way and shows only the pure DPM %, you don't even need AP or attack for this stage. Click on the 'Warrior' link if you want to see a sample; there's a good 24 pages of DPM %'s there waiting for you.
Lol this is going to fail, Big bang update didn't even arrive yet. Also, recruiting random people who are just ''good at math'' in a thread doesn't work.
Oops I forgot ! I'm a hermit, IGN:CerealBlade, add me
I'm not too great at math, but I still support your idea.
Best of luck ^.^
great...hooray...bla...soop...
now what?
[quote=Knight5n1p3r]Count me in. Got fuyoo (i/l) and itouchD (sair). I'm mathematically capable....i think.
Just as a heads up, judging by your "guidelines", it's clear that you haven't done this kind of thing before. It's ridiculously complex, and I'm wondering just how you plan to organize all of this... You are also subject to the fact that people helping you are not going to agree with your guidelines (myself included), you'll end up doing the vast majority of the compilation alone; whether or not you're capable of doing so....
Btw, there is no such thing as a common multiplier to calculate DPM, that is a ridiculous notion. Take a look:
https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AR4rBnrGgvXAZGY2dDR4eDRfM2huc3F3d2N3&hl=en[/quote]
It is possible to approximate it very closely by multiplying the final damage % by the weapon multiplier post-BB. This effectively makes the common multiplier 1.0 for all weapons.
[quote=BlizzardSwarm]I'll do calculations for both arch mages can u put me on the list? i have an ice mage but doing calculations for fp shouldnt be to hard.[/quote]
Alright, thanks.
sounds good. I cant really do much about the math stuff, but that debunking myth things sounds likes something i cn help out in.
I'll do calculations for both arch mages can u put me on the list? i have an ice mage but doing calculations for fp shouldnt be to hard.
i cant really help with any of the math but i can make a suggestion for calculating shadower dpm don't use just boomerang step use both assassinate and boomerang step
[quote=theONEstar]Wow! This will be amazing if it goes though! Good luck
I'd want to help any way I can, but I'm no good in math..[/quote]
Thank you!
I'm up for it
IGN:CerealBlade
Wow! This will be amazing if it goes though! Good luck
I'd want to help any way I can, but I'm no good in math..
I would do.
But I'm not that good in math.
I think this is pretty cool, good luck with it. It will be extremely useful for people who care about this sort of thing. As for me, I'll just be enjoying my CB like I always have.
No, I'm keeping them all just for me. xD
Cool. I can't do math (well, too lazy to), but I'll try to help. xD
Edit: @ above: Go back to your cage. xD