General

The range to just do that it is insane! I'll never reach it . I don't think current gms equips and scrolls allows that range.

Alright thanks. and yeah I currently solo hard gollux in 4 mins. but I heard Mm hitting max can barely do forehead cause of distance sensing, can't get full potential cause platforms small.

[quote=appall]Gollux and empress are the two I do. I know MM suck at hell gollux and Magnus though. I plan to do evo empress soon as well, when I find si gloves but so rare In windia.[/quote]

If you follow my gollux guide that I would have to get later when I am not on my phone, I would say BM. Regular Emp, assuming your in a party BM. But you need to be good with DR management. Solo reg emp, MM. Evo emp, MM IMO.

Gollux and empress are the two I do. I know MM suck at hell gollux and Magnus though. I plan to do evo empress soon as well, when I find si gloves but so rare In windia.

[quote=appall]What's your opinion on Marksman bluebomber? my apologies to OP for using your thread. on par with BM in bossing?[/quote]

On par...no, assuming no glitches for the BM. Whether you care or not depends on what bosses YOU plan to fight.

What's your opinion on Marksman bluebomber? my apologies to OP for using your thread. on par with BM in bossing?

[quote=appall]You can get a lot of pdr without having to replace boss damage lines. For example, root abyss gear, Gollux set, luminous + zero link skill, horntail card, event those dumb craft able potions which you can stack 2 of (not the same kind of potion though) and I'm sure there's more ways to come. To clarify on linear mobbing, I meant like at twilight perion their mobbing skill can be macroed with hook shot. I mainly play as a MM and pierce + hook shot = OP mobbing in linear maps, and I recently tested on a bowmaster and macroing both skills also work. As for multi platform I was more referring to HOH where trifling wind hits both platforms consistently. Training doesn't exist at anywhere besides those two maps in high level gameplay besides bossing and rlh. And commenting on their vertical jumping, wind archers feel a lot cleaner to me as sometimes I find that spamming the up skill twice doesn't register, or maybe that's just my computer. Wind archers you hold up and press alt which I like a lot better. As I'm sure bluebomber will critique my comment again even though I just said to freely post without debate and they were just my opinions/experiences from playing both, mind including how your opinion of how marksman compare to both classes in the bossing department?[/quote]

I take all outside pdr gains into consideration, that doesn't change the end results of what i stated. Again BMs get stronger the more PDR they gain.

@above yeah, that's why I don't recommend BMs as an intro to Archers. Its not complex but it does require you to analyze more than the typical class.

@bluebomber24 wow that's a lot to take in lmao, but thank you. makes me sorta rethink my decision to be a BM cause in all honesty that sounded pretty confusing.
@appall i too have noticed that it doesn't seem to always register when i double tap the up key

You can get a lot of pdr without having to replace boss damage lines. For example, root abyss gear, Gollux set, luminous + zero link skill, horntail card, event those dumb craft able potions which you can stack 2 of (not the same kind of potion though) and I'm sure there's more ways to come. To clarify on linear mobbing, I meant like at twilight perion their mobbing skill can be macroed with hook shot. I mainly play as a MM and pierce + hook shot = OP mobbing in linear maps, and I recently tested on a bowmaster and macroing both skills also work. As for multi platform I was more referring to HOH where trifling wind hits both platforms consistently. Training doesn't exist at anywhere besides those two maps in high level gameplay besides bossing and rlh. And commenting on their vertical jumping, wind archers feel a lot cleaner to me as sometimes I find that spamming the up skill twice doesn't register, or maybe that's just my computer. Wind archers you hold up and press alt which I like a lot better. As I'm sure bluebomber will critique my comment again even though I just said to freely post without debate and they were just my opinions/experiences from playing both, mind including how your opinion of how marksman compare to both classes in the bossing department?

[quote=knowlt]definitely appreciate this, prolly will end up trying them both. at the moment i'm enjoying archer tho because of the upwards jump. do WA have this?[/quote]

Yes, we do! It's great in combination with Wind Walk.

Currently, Bowmasters deal more damage on bosses than WAs, period--more so when AFA and the defense break skill are fixed. The latter does get a significant boost soon, though, to balance this.

The notable thing about WAs is that a massive portion of their damage while bossing doesn't come from their bossing skill itself. It comes from Trifling Whim (the sentient FA arrows, so to speak) and the 150 hyper skill. This makes choosing hyper skills a little confusing for first-time users. It's clear, however, that WAs are better at frontal-attack mobbing because Spiral Vortex has super low delay and hits 7.

[quote=knowlt]definitely appreciate this, prolly will end up trying them both. at the moment i'm enjoying archer tho because of the upwards jump. do WA have this?[/quote]

Well for starts, I don't really agree with @appall. DPS charts suggests that irregardless of Physical resist the BM will do more dpm. However, BMs AFA and Armor Break is glitched so this is not the case atm. Nevertheless, unglitched, math generally supports BM in all Bossing scenarios. BMs skills are slightly more geard twoards bossing. None of my above statements changes with future buffs that have yet to hit GMS. Now, if the Boss has Physical resist but no PDR, then my opinion will change in the WA's favor, but that monster doesn't exist yet. While WA have physical resist ignore to increase thier DPM, they get hurt by PDR more than BMs do. Contraily, the more PDR the BM acquires and the more PDR the Boss has the stronger the BM gets. To put it simply in math terms, lets assume the BM and WA completely ignore PDR and are fighting a 100 PDR mob. The WA dpm would not decrease but it would also not increase. The BMs dpm would not decrease but it would increase by 28% due to Armor Break. So if that same 100 PDR mob has physical resist, The WA is getting thier dpm reduced by 25%, while the BM is getting thier dpm reduced by 22%.

WA are far superior mobbers, although I personally feel they should have mutli-platform skills to be true grinders, much like the Luminous that hold the top 5 ranks. Still, BMs don't hold a candle to WA in mobbing. I am not sure what appal means by linear maps, both classes perform the same for the most part linearly. At best, the BM will perform better on platformed maps because GG can be activated every 15 sweconds and Turret can be left on a platform alone. But again, WA has way better mobbing damage, so at the end of the days its increased mob count versus overwhelming damage. I have yet to see anything that would convince me BMs have a shot in any scenario to be the better grinder. The only difference is that BMs have the potential to be more mobile due to Hook Shot. Again, I am not sure what appal means with Hook Shot as the skill can be used on linear or platformed maps decently.

Wind Walk is powerful and simple and is a very easy playstyle to get into. No matter what your fighting, its pretty straighforward. Even if you don't understand what the Boss does, you know for the most part what [b]YOU[/b] will be doing

Right now there is a misconception that BMs are "technical," due to the way alot of skills they have and need to be casted are. This is false. BMs are simple, however, thier playstyle does require you to understand what your going up against so you know exactly what you should use, which ALOT of people don't. Because people don't understand bosses and usually complain about certain things unnecessarily due to flat out ignorance, I never reccommend BMs as an intro class to Archers. At Arkiarium and Gollux's Eyes and Jewel you should lock in Magic Arrows, at Chaos Von Bon and Gollux's jaw you should not lock in arrows, at Magnus its reccomended to lock in Drain Arrow, and the only time Poison Arrows should ever be locked is during training. This back and forth also applies to wheter you should use Hurricane or Blaster. If you are not the person that likes to take the time to understand a Boss and learn how to approach it, I DO NOT RECCOMEND BM because "you're gonna have a bad time." It took me multiple videos of me recording Gollux fights to realize what I was doing wrong. I can now gollux with literally 1 hand, no joking whatsoever, as its pretty simple if you know the answer to the actual Question.

And yes, WA play like Bowmasters Pre-RED, except they have Wind Walk and are much flashier. BMs play nothing like themselves pre-Red and is technically a new class that happens to be called Bowmaster.

[quote=appall]All archers have their pros and cons. Windarchers are better for bosses with p resistance as they can ignore 50% of it, where as a bowmaster would be doing 50% of their normal damage. Also if your hitting cap as a WA, BM is better. At the moment BM is better in general but there is a future buff for WA that increase their damage by around 1.5x(estimation I also heard 1.7x but don't like to regurgitate facts I'm not sure of!). As for mobbing it depends on the map. A Windarcher would be better at maps with platforms such as HOH, but bowmaster a are better on linear maps due to hook shot+ their mobbing skill macroed together. This is my opinion on the two, so if others have different opinions just please state them. This was not meant to cause a debate or argument. Play whatever fits your play style.[/quote]

definitely appreciate this, prolly will end up trying them both. at the moment i'm enjoying archer tho because of the upwards jump. do WA have this?

All archers have their pros and cons. Windarchers are better for bosses with p resistance as they can ignore 50% of it, where as a bowmaster would be doing 50% of their normal damage. Also if your hitting cap as a WA, BM is better. At the moment BM is better in general but there is a future buff for WA that increase their damage by around 1.5x(estimation I also heard 1.7x but don't like to regurgitate facts I'm not sure of!). As for mobbing it depends on the map. A Windarcher would be better at maps with platforms such as HOH, but bowmaster a are better on linear maps due to hook shot+ their mobbing skill macroed together. This is my opinion on the two, so if others have different opinions just please state them. This was not meant to cause a debate or argument. Play whatever fits your play style.

#TeamWA all day

@knowlt I've noticed it's more based on position maneuvering (blaster, hookshot, covering fire), and switching quivers for scenarios.

[quote=Elufu]WA follows the pre-RED playing style of BMs with additional mobbing capacity.

BMs... well I'll just summon @bluebomber24[/quote]

so BMs have a new playstyle than they used to? i noticed they can jump attack now.
i too am curious what @bluebomber24 can tell me

WA follows the pre-RED playing style of BMs with additional mobbing capacity.

BMs... well I'll just summon @bluebomber24

Bowmaster is basically the bosser of Archers, squishy no Dummy but you need funds to get them going.
Wind Archer is the middle ground, good mobbing, good bossing, dummy and no mastery books needed.
So WA is faster for levling and better for the unfunded.

mabye the name, correct me if im wrong