General

[quote=betaboi101]2 speed differences is about 18% more damage (as 1 speed difference is 1.09% more damage). 30% boss will still put you ahead of that 18% gap (unless max damage is being hit although I have yet to see a bam doing all 999ks per line so....) The extra 30 magic attack will compensate for the slight magic attack difference that the ele staff has over the 140 one and put the 140 staff even farther above using an ele staff 5-8.

As Mysteltein has said, an ele staff will always be better outside of bossing which is very true as the ele staff will have an 18% damage advantage over the 140 staff outside of boss runs. Once you hit 200/ the 17x-19x point that most players stop training and boss more though and training becomes irrelevant, you are going to want equips geared towards bossing but before then, an ele staff can do wonders <3[/quote]

Well the difference isn't that extreme. If you consider that you will probably have 40-50% boss (30-40 on weapon + 10 from DS linked skill) the difference is 174% vs 180% (174% being 150% * 1.16 which is the speed difference and 180% being... the 180% boss damage of a full DTM set with 50% boss from pot + DS linked skill). So yeah get a 3% damage increase. Yeah that isn't really worth losing the 16% better training speed. Hell even if the DTM was better 100% of the time it would barely be worth the time and effort to change equips.

If you have more than 40% boss it is even closer. I remember someone in one of these threads mentioning getting 70% boss on their weapon which for a DTM staff would mean 210% (170 from weapon, 30 from set, and 10 from DS linked skill) damage but for an Ele staff it would be 208.8%. So barely noticeable there.

[quote=betaboi101]2 speed differences is about 18% more damage (as 1 speed difference is 1.09% more damage). 30% boss will still put you ahead of that 18% gap (unless max damage is being hit although I have yet to see a bam doing all 999ks per line so....) The extra 30 magic attack will compensate for the slight magic attack difference that the ele staff has over the 140 one and put the 140 staff even farther above using an ele staff 5-8.

As Mysteltein has said, an ele staff will always be better outside of bossing which is very true as the ele staff will have an 18% damage advantage over the 140 staff outside of boss runs. Once you hit 200/ the 17x-19x point that most players stop training and boss more though and training becomes irrelevant, you are going to want equips geared towards bossing but before then, an ele staff can do wonders <3[/quote]

Math may be on your side, but preference is on mine.

I'll puke if I have to go back to using a slow weapon, regardless of the damage I hit.

[quote=LittleTLK]We do no require that much control.
PVP, maybe, but training doesn't require control that much. Just tele casting FB and finisher and mob gathering with chains.

And the 140 staff is slow (8). Even with booster and aya, it's only fast (5). dSI would only bring it to fast (4). 2 attack speeds makes a huge difference for us, and one most people would notice, especially if they've already been using an estaff.

I will not give up my estaff for a DTM staff, simply because I've already paid out the nose for it and cubed it a lot. Even IF it were to outdamage the estaff 5-8 on bosses, its not worth the cost for me to "upgrade" to something that I see as inferior.[/quote]

2 speed differences is about 18% more damage (as 1 speed difference is 1.09% more damage). 30% boss will still put you ahead of that 18% gap (unless max damage is being hit although I have yet to see a bam doing all 999ks per line so....) The extra 30 magic attack will compensate for the slight magic attack difference that the ele staff has over the 140 one and put the 140 staff even farther above using an ele staff 5-8.

As Mysteltein has said, an ele staff will always be better outside of bossing which is very true as the ele staff will have an 18% damage advantage over the 140 staff outside of boss runs. Once you hit 200/ the 17x-19x point that most players stop training and boss more though and training becomes irrelevant, you are going to want equips geared towards bossing but before then, an ele staff can do wonders <3

Welcome to the BaM family!

Come to Scania, we have cake ^.^

Edit: Oh wait... I ate all the cake from the cake event...

Come to Windia! We have...

Oh wait nvm you're there already

[quote=spreadthegen]@daringwaffle: It's definitely easier nowdays, so good luck.[/quote]

Yeah it definitely is, especially with my plans to put some serious funding into it
Thanks ^_^

@daringwaffle: It's definitely easier nowdays, so good luck.

[quote=BslRuler]What? Evans has 90% stance too..[/quote]

sorry I didnt know that, thanks for correcting me

[quote=spreadthegen][/quote] Thanks, Im happy about that, Battle mage was my first char i made to 4th job, and I've always kept coming back to it
hopfully ill be able to stick out the next 40 lvls to 200

@daringwaffle: well, from what i've been seeing in KMS so far, BaMs are better considering you can stack all 3 auras. Also even after the Thief revamp, I don't think anything huge changed for shads. It was mostly NLs and pirates winning big.

[quote=spreadthegen]Was gonna write something long and thorough about this...but this man hit the nail on the head.
Except one thing...maybe because I'm from a small market, but it's next to impossible for me to find any int equips, so I practically had to make all of em from scratch.[/quote]
OMGAW FURRYWALLS YOU WERE MY INSPIRATION TO MAKE A BaM <3333
SO MANY GREATS ON THIS THREAD

OT: sorry to get off topic, but im having a REALLY hard time choosing between funding my BaM or Shad, and after much thinking, now all i need to no is, who has better DPS and whos got better dpm AND are they at least close?
if they're close ill probably go with BaM, but im gonna assume that shad has much higher DPS/DPM especially post revamp

Why would you decide to make a BaM without knowing the pros and cons already? o__o
But anyway, BaMs are a very versatile class than can mob, boss, and support. I find them extremely fun, and auras are always goof to have around
The only bad thing is that it can get a little repetitive.

@daringwaffle: lawl that is true mysteltein and/or chtulhusama know their BaMs the best ^_^

@kungpaokidd: From what number crunching I did the DTM staff is slightly (around 8% IIRC) better (if you have the full set) once we can stack Auras. Although my numbers could be off depending on how BB works once we can stack Aura. If all three aura get the full BB effects it makes the DTM staff a lot better than I calculated (after I was done I realized that calculating the speed of the DTM staff as being half Fast 4 and half Faster 3 was inaccurate since with all 3 auras being BBed the time spent at Faster 3 is also the time spent with an extra 40% damage) but if you only get the effect of Boosted Aura it makes the DTM staff much worse than I thought.

Either way I wouldn't advise any BaMs to change from an Ele 5-8 to a DTM but if you do not have an endgame weapon post-union AND you plan on bossing more than training (or at least care more about bossing DPM than training speed) then a DTM is a good choice. It's just not worth the cost of changing if you already have one of them since they are very close in power (and cost......).

[quote=daringwaffle]very good all around class, especially in the upcoming revamp.

Pros:
GREAT Defense, especially with ABA(i take 1 dmg at crockies in LHC)
ADA gives 20% dmg, 40% with body boost on
Dont depend on Magic gaurd, and have A LOT of HP(I have 20k HP self buffed at lvl 15x)
Only mage with the 90% stance buff
Good bossing support class,
easy to get high range (I have 9% int and 138m atkk staff, clean range is 13k, self buffed is 24k)
always welcome on Boss runs
Buying %int gear is HELLA CHEAP <3

Cons;
No actual 1v1 attack, only the mob attack,
Main attack is the exact same thing from 1st-4th job, just hits 1 more time each job and a little more dmg
Not made for Bossing(as a main attacker at least)
Have to rebuff every 2mins >.<

thats all I can think of for now, I hope you enjoy your battle mage thoroughly [/quote]

Was gonna write something long and thorough about this...but this man hit the nail on the head.
Except one thing...maybe because I'm from a small market, but it's next to impossible for me to find any int equips, so I practically had to make all of em from scratch.

I have been wondering this myself because I have an E staff and the empress set minus the staff. I have been testing the DPS(Damage per second) with a slow staff versus the DPS with E staff. Conclusion: average of 3 complete Finishing Blows with the E staff for every 2 complete Finishing Blows with the slow staff. i have tested with AYA + SI and the damage benefit from DTM staff is not enough to outweigh the amount of damage you will gain from the DPS of E staff. You may hit more per finishing blow with the DTM but it doesn't compensate for the amount of DPS you are losing due to the speed difference.

[quote=sanghyunp2004]@Mysteltein: o,o oh i thought the guy was saying just the staff not a full set[/quote]

Naw i meant the whole set, cuz really if you're gonna get the DTM staff, you ARE going to get the full empress set, amiright?
P.S. When i see mysteltein and/or chtulhusama post in a BaM thread, I always know im getting the right info
You two know your BaMs better than anyone i can think of

@Mysteltein: o,o oh i thought the guy was saying just the staff not a full set

[quote=JustaPriest]Is this considering pre-union or post-union? And DTM would only be better if it has around the same m.atk, completes 140 set and has all the speed buffs right? Like booster, AYA, decent SI?[/quote]

Post Union. Although even without Aura stacking Decent SI makes the DTM staff a much better option than it would be without that. And yes it needs to complete the set to actually be better than the Ele 5-8. Without that extra 30% boss it just isn't as good as the extra speed. Heck without the extra 30 matk it actually has less matk than the Ele.

[quote=daringwaffle]I never said BaMs COULDNT boss, but they are definitely not the greatest at it.
Basically, DTM staff >ele staff for bossing
Ele staff>DTM staff for mobbing[/quote]

i agree BaMs are not the best bossers;;; not the highest DPM after all but
DTM> ele staff.. NEVER
i do not understand my ele staff 7 259 m.atk i think its better than DTM
please fill me on what im missing here o.o

[quote=betaboi101]Bishops can solo bosses with the right funding...

>[/quote]

I never said BaMs COULDNT boss, but they are definitely not the greatest at it.
Basically, DTM staff >ele staff for bossing
Ele staff>DTM staff for mobbing

[quote=betaboi101]Bishops can solo bosses with the right funding...

OT: Battlemages are almost like mobile warriors with staves .

Pros:
-they have a ton of useful buffs (both self boosting and party boosting)
-they are wanted in runs (well the very funded ones are at least)
-they deal decent damage
-they have higher hp than other mages
-they have flashy fast skills
-unlike warriors, they have better mobility with teleport

Cons
-some of their skills require good control and timing (not one of those spammable classes)
-they have less hp than warriors yet are still close range attackers (you have to be careful when bossing; auto pot helps a lot)
-their "end game" weapon is an ele staff 5-8 (6+ bil; cheap duped ones that were gmed in mts for 107k nx); After union aruas will stack and some bams may switch to the 140 set as it adds an extra 30% boss along with a ton of useful stats = faster 2 vs fast 4 <with aya and booster; faster 3 with self si, aya, and booster>[/quote]

We do no require that much control.
PVP, maybe, but training doesn't require control that much. Just tele casting FB and finisher and mob gathering with chains.

And the 140 staff is slow (8). Even with booster and aya, it's only fast (5). dSI would only bring it to fast (4). 2 attack speeds makes a huge difference for us, and one most people would notice, especially if they've already been using an estaff.

I will not give up my estaff for a DTM staff, simply because I've already paid out the nose for it and cubed it a lot. Even IF it were to outdamage the estaff 5-8 on bosses, its not worth the cost for me to "upgrade" to something that I see as inferior.

[quote=daringwaffle]Yeah, Dont expect to be Soloing bosses anytime soon
Thats like the only reason why im quitting my Battle mage, cuz i like shads, and they'll be pretty decent bossers after the revamp [/quote]

Bishops can solo bosses with the right funding...

OT: Battlemages are almost like mobile warriors with staves .

Pros:
-they have a ton of useful buffs (both self boosting and party boosting)
-they are wanted in runs (well the very funded ones are at least)
-they deal decent damage
-they have higher hp than other mages
-they have flashy fast skills
-unlike warriors, they have better mobility with teleport

Cons
-some of their skills require good control and timing (not one of those spammable classes)
-they have less hp than warriors yet are still close range attackers (you have to be careful when bossing; auto pot helps a lot)
-their "end game" weapon is an ele staff 5-8 (6+ bil; cheap duped ones that were gmed in mts for 107k nx); After union aruas will stack and some bams may switch to the 140 set as it adds an extra 30% boss along with a ton of useful stats = faster 2 vs fast 4 <with aya and booster; faster 3 with self si, aya, and booster>

Yeah, Dont expect to be Soloing bosses anytime soon
Thats like the only reason why im quitting my Battle mage, cuz i like shads, and theyll be pretty decent bossers after the revamp

Mostly what @daringwaffle said.

We're fairly good all-around and we have some of the best survivability in the game, with 3 skills that give invincibility, naturally high defenses, and very high HP and MP.
We excel at mobbing and training. That's our thing, like with most mages. We're insanely good with support skills in boss runs, ada being god-tier in terms of party buffs.

However, on our own against one enemy, our damage is sub-par at best, and we require much more funding to reach the same damage output of other classes like warriors and archers. Our best weapons (estaves, both 1-4 and 5-8 cost a lot of money) and alternatives have a huge gap in power.

It's my favorite class, so I'm a little biased, but I think that about covers what wasn't said and confirms what has been.

very good all around class, especially in the upcoming revamp.

Pros:
GREAT Defense, especially with ABA(i take 1 dmg at crockies in LHC)
ADA gives 20% dmg, 40% with body boost on
Dont depend on Magic gaurd, and have A LOT of HP(I have 20k HP self buffed at lvl 15x)
Only mage with the 90% stance buff
Good bossing support class,
easy to get high range (I have 9% int and 138m atkk staff, clean range is 13k, self buffed is 24k)
always welcome on Boss runs
Buying %int gear is HELLA CHEAP <3

Cons;
No actual 1v1 attack, only the mob attack,
Main attack is the exact same thing from 1st-4th job, just hits 1 more time each job and a little more dmg
Not made for Bossing(as a main attacker at least)
Have to rebuff every 2mins >.<

thats all I can think of for now, I hope you enjoy your battle mage thoroughly