General

[quote=lilkingart]Nexon will ban for nothing at this point. I was Perm banned for "exploits" even though I didn't do any of those hot time box, beginner 200, etc etc exploits.

Nexon is falling off the wagon big time banning a ton of legit players. Loyalty to a game means nothing to them now that they're a big time company.

*smh*[/quote]

Yup! They banned me yesterday for misconduct in LHC for playing in a party with hackers that i knew nothing about.... I'm very pissed about it, considering I bought 2x exp card for the event and was planning on lvling my Kanna to 150....Nope! I will miss the whole new class release....Was going to make a new account then I realized you can only pick from a certain amount of character classes....screw this game... I will NEVER buy NX to support them ever again.

@MissTink021: Well... er... thank you I guess?

[quote=DragonBandit]@MissTink021: cant tell if youre being sarcastic or serious. o.o[/quote]

Serious! lol

@MissTink021: cant tell if youre being sarcastic or serious. o.o

[quote=DragonBandit]@MissTink021: Anytime Nexon is brought up I bring up cold hard facts. [/quote]

Omg... your to funny..

@MissTink021: Anytime Nexon is brought up I bring up cold hard facts.

[quote=Timberwolf10]Except they are. More is logged now.[/quote]

I've never heard of anyone being banned by ksing another. What do you mean by "logged"?

[quote=iFIew]People will never get banned for KSing. How do you even determine which monsters "belong" to someone?

Excessive harassment, that is, stalking someone repeatedly over time [i]may[/i] result in a warning or something. But it's very unlikely since you're counting on the GMs to see your claim, and actually care about it.[/quote]

Except they are. More is logged now.

People will never get banned for KSing. How do you even determine which monsters "belong" to someone?

Excessive harassment, that is, stalking someone repeatedly over time [i]may[/i] result in a warning or something. But it's very unlikely since you're counting on the GMs to see your claim, and actually care about it.

[quote=DragonBandit]Who cares about our thoughts on this? Certainly not Nexon and we have absolutely no say in the ToS. Either you agree or quit. Just because you and possibly others don't believe ksing should be a bannable offense doesn't mean it shouldn't be. You are merely the pawns Nexon uses to feed their hungry bellies. I believe it is something that should be bannable. As ksing is unbelievably annoying and since you cant shove/punch people over a screen a ban is the next best thing. Obviously though this is never enforced as even hackers run rampant in this game with little to no consequence.[/quote]

...Wow no need to be so vicious....i'm just making conversation with people relax..

[quote=MissTink021]So, lately I have been seeing ALOT of threads here on basil about people getting banned for selling NX. So I looked up the Code of Conduct and I wanted to see what else it had to say. I'm extremely surprised that you can get banned for KSing another player. I mean, does that mean I can report every person who ks's me, I think half of the maple community would be banned. Yeah I agree that ksing is annoying and rude, but is it really a reason to ban someone? I dont know about that..

What are your thoughts on this?[/quote]

Who cares about our thoughts on this? Certainly not Nexon and we have absolutely no say in the ToS. Either you agree or quit. Just because you and possibly others don't believe ksing should be a bannable offense doesn't mean it shouldn't be. You are merely the pawns Nexon uses to feed their hungry bellies. I believe it is something that should be bannable. As ksing is unbelievably annoying and since you cant shove/punch people over a screen a ban is the next best thing. Obviously though this is never enforced as even hackers run rampant in this game with little to no consequence.

[quote=MissTink021]Our opinions do matter though, if no one had different opinions about things nothing would ever get changed.[/quote]

Perhaps, but they won't start mattering until we point them out to Nexon (frankly Nexon doesn't always listen). Until then our personal takes on the situation won't magically allow us to KS each other.

[quote=Pavchka]Kill Stealing? This is a game, true that. But I don't agree that KSing, or scamming or hacking should be accepted because this is "just a game". Or let me rephrase that: I will not accept them because this is just a game.
Kill Stealing happens for various reasons. You want a map, you steal it from the poor melee sod that's in it. You don't want to give it up, you KS the stealer back (and then it's suddenly called "Map Defending&quot. You feel like biting someone's head off, you go and KS some victim you don't know. Someone on Basil called you out, you take it out on him in game.
As a Bandit I've been KSed time after time after time after time again. It doesn't bother me, I log off or move to another map. Bothering with it is a waste of time. I don't buy NX so I have nothing to lose. If you KS me I won't call my guildies to KS you back because yeah, let's KS people to show them KSing is wrong.
My opinion aside, there's no way we can justify Kill Stealing. That's because Nexon up there says it's not okay. Our opinions frankly don't matter.

I just don't believe that actions considered immoral in real life should be justified with the argument "it's just a game".[/quote]

Our opinions do matter though, if no one had different opinions about things nothing would ever get changed.

I "KS" those who KS my friends/alliance. I see it more like defending.

@godofturtles: That's the whole point anyway. You only deal with this issue when you're training in... Jesters/CD's/Aliens and barely MP3's anymore. It's not that big of a deal, but on 2x events, you have to fend for yourself, because there simply isn't enough room for everyone to train peacefully, and alone. On average, on 2x, you find rooms of Jesters full of around 4-5 people (none partying), all doing their own platforms. It's because we've become accustomed to it, and we understand that you're going to either HAVE to ks, or find a way to share a map reasonably (which even still, some people find that to be bad somehow).

And it is 100% okay. I didn't need to convince myself, because it's not a big thing. I don't want to assume how old you are, but it's like... Maplestory is such a small part of my life, and I feel anyone my age would agree. It IS a lifestyle to some, but those people who make Maplestory their life, aren't people with the issues of being KS'd. Half of the time, they're doing LHC before half of the server is even at Jesters. Furthermore, you're arguing that people who are hurt by being KS'd, are the people who aren't even fully devoted or involved with Maplestory. If that's the case, they shouldn't even be that angry, it's a casual game to them, and most of them could care less about being KS'd. They walk away like mature adults, and don't consider it anything personal. The other half feels like they have something to prove by not being 'walked over', or whatever other silly thing they think is happening when it's clearly not the case. I'll stick to the opinion that you alone forge the feelings that come from this issue. Unless the person is being a complete asshat, you shouldn't take it personally. If you do, I'd honestly just say you owe it to yourself to just... not be. Being annoyed because its an inconvenience is kay, but taking it as a personal hit, and then linking it to moral corruption is just childish.

That being said, I'm more of a casual player, who enjoys to play for the new characters, and don't specifically care for speed grinding to number one. If I get KS'd here, I'm not going to cry about it all day, because truth be told, I've got other things I could choose to do. If people want to view it as bullying or wrong, that's their fault. But me? I'm going to deal with it like a normal human being. If I'm being KS'd and can't control it, I'm wasting time reasoning with them, or talking about it. They can have their fun, and I'll leave and do my own thing. If everyone thought that way, it'd be a much more mature topic to talk about, but everyone who's a 'victim' of this wants to blow it up into this ridiculous issue of moral standpoints and stuff. I'm not downplaying it as a non-issue, I'm saying that it doesn't reach into the depths that people try to make it. It has nothing to do with who I am as a human being, and it has nothing to say about my personality. And in light of other issues in the game, it's probably the LEAST of anyone's worries.

@Pavchka: I'd venture the possibility that you could SOMEHOW compare it to something viewed as immoral in real life. But I'd like you to venture the possibility that it's a bit of a stretch. If you were to compare this to something viewed as immoral in real life, one of the more simple things to compare it to would be... stealing something someone rightfully hunted for. The difference though, is that in Maplestory, we're all under one roof. We're in a place with limited resources, and we're all sort of "Nexon's Children". Nothing in the game is owned by anyone. This is the sort of idea that led to BigFoot policing by guilds. Whenever you walked into a map with Bigfoot, they'd accuse you of KSing because it was "Their map", simply because they were there longer, or were in the map at the time. Thinking in broader and more mature terms, if you let this idea of entitlement to grow, you'll have guilds saying they own x channel of x map. Going back to relating this with real life, it would be immoral, because that person has actual entitlement over it. If they're out, and they see a deer, and want to snatch it up, it's first come first serve. If someone waltzes over after you've already seen it and decided on making it your own, it's technically yours, and the other person SHOULD be seen as immoral.

Kill Stealing? This is a game, true that. But I don't agree that KSing, or scamming or hacking should be accepted because this is "just a game". Or let me rephrase that: I will not accept them because this is just a game.
Kill Stealing happens for various reasons. You want a map, you steal it from the poor melee sod that's in it. You don't want to give it up, you KS the stealer back (and then it's suddenly called "Map Defending&quot. You feel like biting someone's head off, you go and KS some victim you don't know. Someone on Basil called you out, you take it out on him in game.
As a Bandit I've been KSed time after time after time after time again. It doesn't bother me, I log off or move to another map. Bothering with it is a waste of time. I don't buy NX so I have nothing to lose. If you KS me I won't call my guildies to KS you back because yeah, let's KS people to show them KSing is wrong.
My opinion aside, there's no way we can justify Kill Stealing. That's because Nexon up there says it's not okay. Our opinions frankly don't matter.

I just don't believe that actions considered immoral in real life should be justified with the argument "it's just a game".

Considering how much playing as a Perma Beginner is just asking to be KSed, I'm pretty sure a sizeable chunk of Scania's population would've been banned by now solely because of Keeth if Nexon really bothered with banning KSers. XD

I think that provided it does not become somewhat of a trend at that time and becomes a form of bullying to the other player(s), becoming a constant problem, then there is no need to ban. Sometimes though, it is the complete opposite scenario and the victim is really the bully, trying to set up fake pretenses that those already occupying the map should change channels and stop kill stealing. It is becoming harder to prove such instances as this kind of ignorance seems to pollute the community more nowadays.

The only thing I have about people hating kill stealing is that sometimes when maps are crowded it seems unfair that people think they don't need to share a map just because they are there.

@MissTink021: Because I cant communicate with them, and they are annoying. AND they KS! Almost all of 'em!

@godofturtles: All I'm saying is, there's TOO much of a moral high-ground that people take on this issue. It's all made out to be too serious when it's a simple issue. Someone KS's, it doesn't make them a terrible person. It doesn't make them a bully. There's no need for justification.

You say there's no justification, but why does there need to be justification? It's a video game. I don't need justification to compete for resources. It goes the other way around too, other people will do the same to you. Everyone should wise up and realize that. If there's not enough room, or instanced maps, too bad. I'm not going to "Ask to share the map" because it's hardly ever an option, and if they say no, I'm going to stay anyway. At the point of all channels and maps being full, its nothing personal. I tried the nice approach my first few years of playing Maplestory, and it just gets you nowhere, ESPECIALLY in crowded servers. It's like driving in Manhattan. People WILL bully you on the road, but you need to realize that you need to do the same thing. If not, you'll not only be blocking traffic, but you wont get anywhere.

It doesn't make me or anyone else a bully, unless they do it with the intention to harass (just to be mean), or otherwise emotionally hurt them. This is where it starts to get extremely stupid and too serious. There's a such thing as bullies in real life, and even on the internet. But one thing remains common among all of them, they aim to hurt or abuse you mentally (emotionally) , or physically. Saying that being KS'd does any of that, is beyond an exaggeration. It can be aggravating and annoying, sure, but it's your OWN reaction to it that would make it emotionally or mentally harmful. Tell someone that has ACTUALLY been bullied about this silly ass issue, and see how they'll respond. They'd likely laugh at this, because (once again, unless the people intend on making fun of you or whatever) this is HARDLY something to consider bullying.

If they had more channels in crowded servers, this wouldn't be an issue. Until that happens, there will always be competition over the popular maps, because everyone wants to level up during those events. Every one of those people deserves an equal chance at it, but if they don't have the ability to fend for themselves, then it's a bummer. It's the way of the world. You don't get into a crowded popular University just because you can, you compete with others, and if they're better, they get in. You don't win fight in tournament finals if you can't prove yourself good enough to make it there, so on and so forth. Different situations entirely, but it's survival of the fittest.

[quote=godofturtles]"It's just a game, get over it". Thanks guys, great contribution. Did you ever learn that just because you can do something doesn't mean you should? I guess being even a remotely good person means nothing to you, your choice. Just accept the negative label that comes with it and don't just tell us to get over it. We are well aware that nothing can be done to stop it, but it doesn't make it less annoying.[/quote]

If you want to dumb down anyone's thoughts about it, or generalize with that statement, be my guest. It's not as simple as "It's a game, get over it". But that's the general idea.

It does suck, and we can all say we've been there. Nobody likes the fact that someone can just come in, and ruin your training when you were only minding your own business. But the fact that there's a 'negative' label to it, or that it somehow makes you not as good of a person because of it? That's absurd.

As a 'victim' (hardly appropriate term) of it, you should step back from the situation, and evaluate it. If there's no other free channels, should that person just NOT level up that day because of some 'moral' obligation? No. It doesn't make anyone a bad person because they don't want to take the high road, and not play a game because someone else feels as if they're entitled to something. It's selfish to expect that of someone, too. Realize that, while it may suck, it's not the end of the world if you get KS'd. You can either be angry at the situation and hold grudges about it, or you can be annoyed a bit then move on or protect yourself from it.

[quote=Spike9276]I don't understand how you can possibly compare government law to that of a game. The only point that was made is that you don't have a grasp on what was being put in front of you.

That's where you're wrong. You can't say it contradicts KSing. You can't justify that KSing players are entitled to KS. Entitlement does not mean you "deserve" anything you want, for nothing. It's the notion that you should be given a benefit or rewarded by another source, whether contractual or by law, for whatever justifications (wrongdoings, being victimized, and yeah even having power) you can come up with.

And to above, ignorance isn't an excuse. Entitlement means more than just what the word says. But for people like you that think it's such a sin to do such things, when practically all you'd have to do is just move away/cc/whatever, I suppose that's where morality comes in. And to be punished for those morals on such a petty offense and a petty game, is a big reason I rarely play anymore. People can't be spoon-fed their entire lives. You have to grow up and understand what life is like early. And the demographics on this game are extremely broad, and to be narrowed by these ideals that people shouldn't be able to attack what they feel like and maybe get what enjoyment they can get out of it, in my mind and I'm sure I'm not the only one is absurd.[/quote]

So you start by stating it's absurd to compare the law (life) to the game and then end your point by stating that you must learn you're not spoon fed everything in life? Pick a side. For the record though, your "it's a game" idea doesn't really work because it's a game played by real, living people. Doesn't matter if it's a tiny meaningless game, real people play it, and real people get annoyed. Lastly, thinking that wrongs are to be left alone for being a "petty offense" is just what "The only thing it takes for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" was made for.

@KllrAssain: i've done that before. I've stalked someone for a week on my Lumi for ksing my AB out of an alien map.

[quote=OrionTempest]Why do people want more minidungeons? May as well just play a single player game then.[/quote]

I don't consider KS wars the social aspect of Maple. I keep training and socializing apart, and the only thing you get from having 2 people in the same monster map is KSing. If hotspots had dungeons then no one could ever get KSed and you could still chat with guildies / buddies / etc.

[quote=Osdenther]I don't think ksing is a good thing, nor do I support it. However, getting banned because of it is ludicrous.
If you have the ability, get your channel back. The more ticked off you get, the more the kser enjoys what they're doing.
If you don't want to be ksed, move to a world with a lower population.[/quote]

Agreed, I wish that they still had the world transfer in the cash shop. Broa is so populated now.
I should make a petition or something to bring it back! Anyone interested?

I don't think ksing is a good thing, nor do I support it. However, getting banned because of it is ludicrous.
If you have the ability, get your channel back. The more ticked off you get, the more the kser enjoys what they're doing.
If you don't want to be ksed, move to a world with a lower population.

KSing a person should just be ignored, if you hate it so much just CC you dont lose anything if you stop "standing your ground" stalking the kser and spamming CC NOOB for a few dozen minutes. if your in a busy map just find the person with the weakest damage and KS them to get a map, thats how i do it.... however stalking someone around and ksing them for days (although thats never happened to me before) should be bannable for personal harrasment, not like nexon would do anything about it

Ksing is the only thing that made me want to be stronger
If I know that I can just click someone and get rid of them, there would be no reason to improve

I'm sorry to say, but Ksing is what drives maple's economy

If you put yourself into one of the most popular maps in the game (crows, jesters, aliens, LHC) then you know what to expect.
You are all aware that this is a pay to win game. You pay big bucks, you get big damage. If you're not willing to do that, you better expect that someone else is.
And those people will KS your map no matter what, whether it be 2x or just a normal day. Because they can. They have paid to win their game. I highly doubt nexon would ever ban a player who has dropped big money for ksing a player who hasn't spent a dime on the game. It would never happen.
Also I have never known anyone personally (or had it happen to me) where someone has followed someone for days ks'ing them. That just borders on a sick obsession with this game that I have no words for. With that said, I still don't really care. tl;dr ks'ing will always be here, nothing we can do and nexon won't either.

@above thank you. i don't know when people stopped realizing that this is just a game and started treating it like a lifestyle.

Stealing kills is considered harassment at the very least, I don't see what's so odd about that. I understand, it's sort of silly, but they want everyone to enjoy the game without feeling threatened like that.

I personally don't mind, because I never make a huge deal out of it. If I'm looking for a channel at Jesters (on 2x for example), I'll go in and KS as a LAST resort if all other channels are full. If the other person can't defend themselves, its kind of too bad (nothing personal). I don't try to purposefully be annoying, I just keep my mouth shut and train until I can leave to another grinding spot. I don't feel entitled to monsters or anything, and I try to finish up as quick as possible, but it's just a video game. Instead of accepting that, and getting over it, people want to attach these rules and morals to it. Stop trying to rationalize it with said rules and morals, and just realize that it shouldn't be taken so seriously.

[quote=godofturtles]I said "if you are" playing devil's advocate, I guess this means you aren't. And the ones who are indifferent and bad eggs as you describe are the ones you've been arguing for. I get that this is how the world is, and we can't always rely on the authorities to stop bad people! Society creates its own rules that we passively enforce without the need of police-like figures to assert them. But the problem here lies with you not believing that these people are bad to begin with. Our disagreement is over how to feel about ksers, since I think our feeling on their punishment is the same. You think serial ksing guilds should be banned, and I do as well. And I think you may agree that serial ksers who do it just to hurt others should be punished, as would I if that's the case. But in terms of all other ksers who enter a map just to steal it by force for personal gain, I feel that those people are selfish and bad even though I may not ban them. Just because we cannot always stop them does not mean we should just give in and accept them as being morally acceptable people who undergo morally acceptable acts.[/quote]

I completely understand everything you're saying, but it's being said for the wrong reason. I [b]am[/b] playing devil's advocate. Which means I'm offering up questions to raise speculation on why things are for the [b]other side[/b]. That does not mean that I am personally for KSing. The only thing I am doing is offering up another side to an argument. The point of it is to be aggressive towards the topic of the argument, not towards the person giving it. What I believe doesn't matter, it's just supporting facts and other details that make up being the devil's advocate.

For all the people saying it would be insanely difficult to determine who is ksing have you ever played a different version of maple that tasted like pizza? Well most pizza slices that I've heard about from friends would have a system that keeps track of who arrived at the map first and also records if a person has been idle over 10 minutes. You can use an in game command to check and it will tell you both things. So if someone was there first you can assume second person was ksing. Unless the first person has an idle time next to their ign, which means they weren't moving or attacking for however long and the second person should have the map.

lol I never gets ksed from the beginning of maple

This hyper regulation and over policing of the game is going to take away the true essence of what we enjoyed.

Remember the ks wars back in the day?

I just feel we wont be able to do anything

I remember that a long time ago, some GMs actually settled KS wars and disputes between players. IN GAME. I don't know if they have actually banned for ksing before though, but it is under harassment.

come at me GMs

[quote=natty2]You become angry that you train with a class that isn't as OP as the new ones, but then a jerk who doesn't even speak English comes in, and elliminate every mob in the channel.

I SOOOOOOO Fucn hate those 10 years old / those not-English Speaker - who play MapleStory even though they shouldn't![/quote]

Ok, compeletly off topic but why shouldnt they be playing MS? lol

Also, I think that its annoying when someone who is like lvl 160 training in a lvl 50 map ksing everyone else.

[quote=EliteMapler]How does it feel to be KSed?[/quote]
You become angry that you train with a class that isn't as OP as the new ones, but then a jerk who doesn't even speak English comes in, and elliminate every mob in the channel.

I SOOOOOOO Fucn hate those 10 years old / those not-English Speaker - who play MapleStory even though they shouldn't!

i think its kinda weird to ban people for KSing in a grinding game
but thats my opinion

may be u r ksing a hacker so nexon thought u r benefiting from a hacker. its nexon's fault for not making enough channels for us to train without KSing. if there is a mini dungeon for jesters then there would not be any KSing.

[quote=godofturtles]Here's one thing that should be understood: the playerbase does not rely on Nexon to enforce good morality. We rely on ourselves for the most part. Explain to me why, when training somewhere like jesters, a good 90% of people who come to your map leave after seeing you? Because those people respect that the map is taken, even if they have the power to steal it. The playerbase has a general code of ethics that prevent this game from devolving into absolute chaos, and people who ks, scam, hack, and generally act in sociopathic ways are the ones who disrupt things. Don't give me this "I'll shed my honor in order to do what is necessary to achieve my goals" crap.

And spike, I made CLEAR guidelines on who is a bad kser. I said for the reasons YOU stated which were basically anyone who has the power to steal a map for whatever reason they choose. Those people are selfish pricks and I judge them as so because that bad behavior IS their reasoning unless you have a better explanation. We're here to argue on the merits of your opinion, not on your right to have one so don't hide behind that. We think you are wrong, and you've done little to prove otherwise.[/quote]

You don't think so? If that's the case, then what you're saying is no-one reports anyone. Reporting someone would be a reliance on Nexon to take some action. The only explanation I have for that is the other 10% out there are either indifferent or just bad eggs I suppose. But that's also why I stated that that's just how the world is. There's no avoiding it. There have been people who have asserted their power and succeeded, and others that fall short and turn bad.

And don't contradict yourself now. You said that that if I'm playing the devil's advocate, then you don't need me. Don't say you want to argue on my opinion after you tell me to go away. And if I worded that opinion statement wrong, then that was my bad. But I'm pretty sure I've been getting my point across pretty clearly. It's just whether or not someone is willing to hear the other side of an issue. I am in no way trying to demean anyone, put down anyone, or just say your downright wrong.

[quote=HrtChoco]let's say there is a town where no one owns a private pool. during summer, everyone wants to go swimming. i went there late, and the pool was too full. instead of leave, i go in and take a piss in there and chase other ppl out. i can get away with it, so i should do it, right?[/quote]
I think you might misunderstand me and the meaning of a devil's advocate. I'm just trying to make an argument against the general consensus. Doing so does not say I'm for doing immoral or illegal things (when it comes to harassment).
To answer your question though; no I don't think you should do it. Even though peeing in a pool probably wouldn't do much to chase people out, if you had an intention to do so even if it didn't work, I think that's wrong.

@Spike9276:

let's say there is a town where no one owns a private pool. during summer, everyone wants to go swimming. i went there late, and the pool was too full. instead of leave, i go in and take a piss in there and chase other ppl out. i can get away with it, so i should do it, right?

@Spike9276: Woops, right I don't agree with a 30day ban for "just ksing", but ksing still inexcusable. A one day ban is fair enough. If it gets to the point of harassment, raise the punishment. Although it IS just a game, who is to say you wouldn't be opt to act in such a manner in real life if you were given the opportunity?

[quote=Spike9276]Well, not specifically you yourself, but in general there is a pretty big consensus that KSing is just not tolerable.[/quote]

Maybe bc it's harassment? Derp. Ksing people intentionally is harassment regardless if it's just a game. It being a game doesn't take away the fact that you are playing with real people and are harassing others. Does it make it right for me to post a youtube video harassing people online? I mean it is just online right? I am not doing anything physical to them? People excuses to do wrong things these days. Seriously grow the hell up.

[quote=FrozenFlameO]Except in taking advantage of that person's weakness you're hurting them, and that is wrong. If you have the choice between what is right and wrong, why wouldn't you want to do what is right? You had mentioned the world is a cruel place and people should stop being baby fed, if it truly is so cruel, why not try to make it a little better?[/quote]
Hurting them in what respect though? Is it really something you can't get over? Especially since it's just a game? I can understand now if it's been a reoccurring thing for some people that they would report and seek some sort of justice against it, but also think, for example, if someone just started to KS (Maybe just wanting to train despite someone else there) and gets reported immediately and action was actually taken. There's no true justification for a 30-day ban for that. You're right about trying to make it better, but at what cost to others (Like the example mentioned)?

[quote=godofturtles]Are you playing devil's advocate, like you stated you were before, or do you actually believe this nonsense? If you really don't understand how ksing for the reasons you state do not make the kser a selfish prick who aims for success by trying to crush the weak who are minding their own business, then you must live in a different world than us. Ksers do not respect others, and people like you seem to believe that you're doing the victims a favor by putting them in their place. You may feel unstoppable and strong, but that still makes you a bad person! Just because Nexon won't ban you does not make you right.

And if you are just playing devil's advocate, then we don't need you.[/quote]

None of what I'm saying is nonsense. It's a legitimate argument that maybe some people should hear. That's your opinion on if they're a "selfish prick" or not. Don't be so quick to judge. I'm just saying it might not be that way to them. And who ever said that was the KSer's goal? You act as if there aren't people on the other end of the keyboard. Like I said the demographics on this game are very broad.
And the thread asked for thoughts, so I'm just giving mine. Please don't just shut me out because I'm expanding the conversation.

[quote=Merchant1014]This, my friend, is what is called an anarchy.

Also, you countered your argument in your own argument...
"I don't understand why you guys are all complaining about being KS'd."
"...people should be able to do what they want in this, and punishing someone for doing that just seems absurd."

It's kinda hard for people to do what they want if another's consistently flaunting their dominance over them. I mean, how do you expect someone to live peacefully when an arsonist keeps burning their house down...? or if there's the constant threat of sexual, mental, or physical assaults...?[/quote]

No-one is getting punished for complaining about KSers. And how consistent is it really? Is the game unplayable? If that's the case then there really is justification for complaining/reporting. And please don't compare these real-world scenarios to that of a game, where physical and mental anguishes are clearly distinguishable.

[quote=Spike9276]I don't understand why you guys are all complaining about being KS'd. I mean especially banning someone for KSing? It's just a game, people should be able to do what they want in this, and punishing someone for doing that just seems absurd. It's as if you guys are entitled to play this game without any complications other than what NX schemes Nexon comes up with. It's just the entitlement people expect nowadays is ridiculous.[/quote]

This, my friend, is what is called an anarchy.

Also, you countered your argument in your own argument...
"I don't understand why you guys are all complaining about being KS'd."
"...people should be able to do what they want in this, and punishing someone for doing that just seems absurd."

It's kinda hard for people to do what they want if another's consistently flaunting their dominance over them. I mean, how do you expect someone to live peacefully when an arsonist keeps burning their house down...? or if there's the constant threat of sexual, mental, or physical assaults...?

[quote=SnailPresident]About 2 years ago on Demethos, there was a guild called Immortalz. They were a so-called "KSing guild." They would occupy channels at all the best training areas and were just a nuisance in general. After months of headache for A LOT of people and A LOT of reports filed, Nexon banned the entire guild.

You get banned for KSing when you KS on a criminal level. You don't get banned for everyday run-of-the-mill KSing.[/quote]

And I can see how that's reasonable. To have that intent to act and to act upon it, consistently as well, isn't right. But I feel the basis of some agruments in this thread was against any form of KSing, a zero-tolerance kind if you will.

[quote=Spike9276]Just saying, but calling something morally incorrect doesn't have much standing in an argument considering the differences in morals in everyone. That being said, I can justify KSing easily; I have the power to kill and loot these monsters faster than you so why not do so. Is that not how people have gotten ahead in the world anyway? Having the advantage and seizing it?

I wouldn't necessarily agree. It wouldn't be right to compare one's intelligence to that of what they find right or wrong. Yeah there's some correlation there, but there are other factors that would discredit that, such as the way they were brought up by family and the community they were brought up in. There are some smart people out there that do some pretty stupid things, you could say.

I'm not familiar with who that is. And I am pretty chilled out, but is it wrong to want to have an intelligent argument?[/quote]

Except in taking advantage of that person's weakness you're hurting them, and that is wrong. If you have the choice between what is right and wrong, why wouldn't you want to do what is right? You had mentioned the world is a cruel place and people should stop being baby fed, if it truly is so cruel, why not try to make it a little better?

About 2 years ago on Demethos, there was a guild called Immortalz. They were a so-called "KSing guild." They would occupy channels at all the best training areas and were just a nuisance in general. After months of headache for A LOT of people and A LOT of reports filed, Nexon banned the entire guild.

You get banned for KSing when you KS on a criminal level. You don't get banned for everyday run-of-the-mill KSing.