General

[quote=koreantimoh]1. (At the quoted poster)
The fact that this drives makes me wonder, "Were you ever a Christian?"
The first and foremost thing in Christianity is to have a personal relationship with God.
This involves spending time alone with God, meditating on his Word, and praying.
Are you doing those three on a daily basis? If not, don't complain about the problems of the church.

Also, Faith is a complete metamorphosis. You don't see a butterfly shove itself back into a cocoon and coming out a caterpillar.
If you have, at one point, had Faith, then you still have it. Faith is not something you can lose in terms of Christianity.
It's not simply a belief, but a transformation.

2. (At people bashing on either side)

[b]First off, I encourage you to realize that 90% of the people that argue about Christianity and Atheism belong to neither side.[/b]

People will fight for Christianity, yet they do not: 1. Read the Bible 2. Pray 3. Meditate/Reflect
I'm not sure how they ever got to categorizing themselves as Christians.
Fake Christians give a bad name to Christianity because they use personal logic to defend it rather than the Bible... the sources that DEFINES it... durr?

People will fight for Atheism, yet they do not: 1. Understand what Atheism really is 2. Use it as an excuse to bash religion
Atheism, in a theological/research standpoint, is extremely intellectual and amazing to look at. (I'm a Christian, and I find Atheist theology very interesting)
Fake Atheists give a bad name to Atheism because they use it to bash religion... without realizing that Atheism is a religion as well.
It is both the belief in logic and the belief in the non-existence of any form of deity.

3. Expressing Opinions and Interacting

...is possible without arguing/flaming/trolling/etc.
There is no command/rule in Atheism that calls for Atheists to bash religions that believe in a deity.
Random bashing and/or causing any argument is actually illogical... which is completely opposite of Atheism's logical approach to life. loL?

There ARE commands in the Bible that tell Christians to avoid petty arguments. I'm pretty sure 99% of the arguments on forums are considered petty.
Please do not be an Enthusiast and use the "Defend my Faith!" as an excuse to bash Atheists.
Yes, defend your faith... but do not insult the other.

Insulting seems to be the most frequently used, yet most ineffective method of persuasion.
Be respectful.

/end rant[/quote]

Oh I have faith but it's not as strong as it was before.
I've always wondered "Am I actually a christian or do I simply believe because I grew up believing it."
It's just when I see these "Christians" do their thing it just makes me wonder.
I don't really want to go into much detail but yeah I'm having a hard time with "How a Christian should truly be." Almost all the Christians I've known in my life just don't seem like their doing what they're meant to do. It feels demotivating cause I don't know if what they're doing is right or wrong. I've tried looking through the bible but I have yet to find an answer.

You seem like a knowledgeable person on this subject. If I ever have any questions mind if I pm you?

Honestly, I've had my share of extremely negative religious people, and extremely negative..not so religious people. I've also met positives of both.

[quote=MagicFrappe]Personally, I think we should all hold hands and think of happy things so that we can all be positive, Christian and Atheist alike.

What if we all go to heaven no matter what we believe in? I would love to go to a Heaven-Starbucks with some swanky Atheist fellows.[/quote]

Minus the holding hands, I strangely like this idea.

@MrPebbles: Getting your head chopped off seems bad, but the event that follows it (death) is still unknown.

@Seriazly: yeah I'll sleep soon, just saying bye to my peeps. I'll read your message after work tomorrow ^^
Have a good one too ^x^

@Seriazly: Oh I don't care if you write it here or over PM o.O
Your decision if you want people to be able to read it - and maybe give their two cents (which has its pros and cons)- or if you wanna do it "privately"

Religious or not, humans are human.
It depends on the individual.

You could be a practicing Christian, Muslim, etc and still have a pretty negative attitude.

@timmybitty: Unfortunate, but too often true today. That tends to be a consequence of balancing everything on love, to the neglect of scripture and relationship. As a student who has been actively involved in campus youth ministry on secular and christian college/university campuses, as well as churches, I'd be happy to share more of my experience in Christian spirituality and/or chat about it if you want, feel free to pm me. I'd be interested in more of you take on it as well.

Personally, I think we should all hold hands and think of happy things so that we can all be positive, Christian and Atheist alike.

What if we all go to heaven no matter what we believe in? I would love to go to a Heaven-Starbucks with some swanky Atheist fellows.

@Seriazly:
Nah I don't generalize Christians cause of that beating. I've found out about that last year actually, I've had a kind of "set" opinion about them before.
I "generalyze" them by their common behaviour. I was just "showing" that religions can be extreme - whereas personally as Atheist I would never beat my child (well don't have one yet ) to force it to believe what I believe in. Also simply because there is no "fear" in me that my child may become a blasphemer I feel free, I have a free will, a free opinion, a free "life" if you may say so. My child may have the exact same freedom.

Well isn't what defines a Christian what he believes in - not how he acts/what he does? (unless he "sins" lol. then it's just Hypocrisy)

Well the "foolish" Christians to me are those that blindly follow the bible and believe everything. Those that blame everything that happens on God and take no responsiblity at all (neither for their own life nor their own actions. After all - whatever happens it was God's will right? I broke my leg. Big whoop. God just wanted to teach me a lesson. etc etc)
Personally I madly enjoy my "freedom of mind" and just the thought of being part of a religion kind of makes me feel irritated. I "like" "physical" rules. (don't kill, don't steal etc etc ) But the slightest limit on my mind would be hell on earth for me.

Homosexuality wouldn't be an issue at all if Christians wouldn't be so against it - and I'd like it if someone directs me to the text that tells that it's wrong.
It doesn't make sense to me. Homosexuality is only loving a person of your own Gender.
In my eyes people can't be Individuals in Christianity. Or does it just seem like?
Why are humans reduced to their gender there? They are, just like everyone else, "God's children".
Who are Christians, who also are "only" humans, to go against LOVE - which is (though I'm not sure in their eyes too) a "divine" and "pure" emotion?

Either way, they only follow what the bible says. Simple as that. It's God's word. Whether it makes sense or not - to question it is blasphemy.

There's e.g. one part that really confuses me (and I will never understand it probably):

Incest is not allowed, right? (it's as bad if not worse than homosexuality I guess)

Now, Adam and Eve were the first humans. From what I know they had children.
And then? Where did the rest of humanity come from?

In my eyes there are only two options: (and as far as I know they only had sons)

- Eve made children with her own kids (or in general they reproduced with each other) ===> Incest.

- God made more humans (to prevent incest)
But then, if he made more, aren't those, again, like him? Pure and perfect and such?
And why did (talking as if it's the case here) those humans not stay in paradise then as they have nothing to do with adam and eve (or rather their actions)?
Why would God punish someone for something someone else did? (and who is not related)

Then: if God is perfect why does evil exist?
If Adam and Eve were "built" after him, he who is perfect (if you argue it = BLASPHEMY ), how were they even able to "sin"?

If the "Appletree" was a "test" - but God is perfect - why did he have to test them in the first place? cause again, he's perfect and since they were built after him they'd have to be perfect too.

There's many more questions similar to these (can't think of much more atm though since I'm actually supposed to sleep at this very moment ) - and the lack of logic combined with the illogical responses from Christians (well I only got one so far and I have to admit I forgot what I was told lol. It's been a while..) really bug my mind.
And there is no way I'd be able to live a life having to believe a book (that could be faked, by all means. There are sinners out there. There most likely are people "hating" on god in the Christian's eyes. it could be one of those blasphemers actually messed around with the book. Or do they also blindly "believe" (-> trust) in other humans?

anyway sorry for the wall of text. Religion is so illogical that I probably have a book worth of thoughts/questions about it.

@Unsilenced:

Yeah I find it rare to actually find a legit Christians. I'm starting drift away right now actually. My church has been so infuriating lately. -.-They talk about how Christianity is all about the love but all I ever see them do is hate.

[quote=Hathelian]Also, I'll have to side with @Buddgie here when she says that "anti-theists" don't seem too happy. When I said "atheist" earlier, I was referring to the particularly annoying breed that pops up online on a regular basis to bash anyone religious and point out their "ignorant belief in a fictional deity" (or something to that accord). You know, the kind that has no particular goal other than to place him/herself on an intellectual pedestal and mock anyone who holds a spiritual worldview.
You know, the kind that shows up on Basilmarket.
On the other hand, atheists that are actually friendly do seem happy. They're rare, especially online, but they exist. I just wish more of them were like that and didn't make sweeping generalizations about Christians, pinning them all as judgmental, hypocritical, uneducated, etc.
I feel that if atheists really want to make a point, they have to stop being hypocrites themselves and live the life they want Christians to live. Condescension and an inflated ego don't really help you when you're trying to convey something.

Edit: You know what? I'm not done. I've been putting up with this stuff for years now, and I need to say something else.
I've heard many Christians make apologies for the members of their religion that [i]are[/i] judgmental, hypocritical, etc. but I've never heard an atheist apologize for the rudeness or attitude of superiority with which other atheists speak to the religious. Why? Is it that hard to notice? [i]People suck[/i]. I don't care who you are, whether you're religious, or your background; people suck. Sometimes you need to admit that and let other people know you acknowledge it.
I don't think I can ever see an atheist as truly "happy", "optimistic", or anything like that until I know that at least [i]one[/i] of them is nice enough to stand out from the crowd and say, "Hey, I'm an atheist, and I'm sorry for all the crap we give the religious." To be truly happy, sometimes you need to show some humility. So let me see some humility for once.[/quote]

I'm personally Atheist and I see no reason why I should apologize for other individuals.
The thing about religious people is that in every religion there is a certain basic belief, a basic god they believe in and such. They have something in common.
Atheists often differ more from each other, they have different views, different reasons for their "disbelief", different reasons to voice what they think etc etc.

I mean really, why should I apologize for e.g. someone who only goes against Christians simply cause he wants to put them down and make himself feel better (Admittedly Atheists seem like that most/all of the times even if it's not intended. I'm probably no exception)?
Personally I have to admit that MANY Christians are complete fools in my eyes (especially those that go against homosexuals or that FORCE their belief on other people - whether it's by constantly bothering or by beating their children up) and people like Jehova's Witnesses are partially just mentally sick it seems like. (also on a sidenote I have a personal frustration cause of JW cause a friend of mine is one of them. She was my best friend and even though she enjoyed alcohol and drawing naked bodies she quit our friendship cause they're not allowed to stay in contact with people that will end up in hell/don't believe in the same things. there's a lot more to this but w/e. Also, in short, she would let her baby/child die if it were to bleed out cause transfusion = bad)

though, on the other hand, I also enjoy debating/discussing with religious people and I appreciate it when they're open and friendly.
The bible often makes ABSOLUTELY no sense to me and I've been trying to find the logical background to it all.

Though my conclusion is that Christians basically have to lack some sort of interest in knowledge or something cause many just blindly believe and follow and don't question ANYTHING. So basically so far I haven't gotten any "satisfying" answer to any of my questions.

One of which was why people follow a MAN-WRITTEN book that's been written who knows how many years ago - and nobody can know if it really is true etc etc...
well, I was told it's "god-inspired". seems to make it good enough... eh..

OT: I remembered that Jehova's Witnesses must be quite happy. They sit in their sweet little group sessions, probably giggle like high ferrets and sing "EVERYONE WILL GO TO HELL BUT US". I imagine it must be a very pleasing thought to feel like "the chosen kind" and that everyone else is doomed. lolol

or people that carry bomb...
nvm teariest joke is not funny

[quote=timmybitty]From what I see in my church no. I'm a christian and I find that most people in my church don't think positive at all. =/ There are times where they seem so happy and stuff but it just doesn't seem legit. There's only a few Christians I know who are genuinely happy. I think it comes down to the person.[/quote]

Yeah, that's something I found growing up too, which is what caused me to drift away. After all, what's the point in being "religious" for the sake of religion. I'm not interested in a God who can't transform my life. It wasn't until years later when I saw a living example of someone who had a genuine relationship with God, that I decided to give it another shot.

[quote=Nashi]Oh yeah that's why my Christian friend was beat up with a steel pole by his christian father (and otherwise abused). Yes. Very positive.
Religion can become obsession - and quite often Christians are fools.
On top of that - what the hell is wrong with homosexuals?[/quote]

See, that's the problem with humanity. Most Christians aren't Christian by very definition and meaning of the word itself.
People, looking at their example, are open to far more misunderstanding.
The same tends to apply in most religions though, but isn't less prevalent in the lives of those who do not claim belief. The difference there is that there's no expectation.

[quote=fraddBS]@Criticism: Anybody can be generalized in some way. So it doesn't help your case either.

Anyway, Christians are positive a lot more because we know that we'll get into heaven when we die, and we aren't wondering about what the meaning of life is, and we aren't frustrated by Christians (like Atheists), and we want to help the world. And we don't get depressed and commit suicide because we know that there is no point.

We are generally positive people.[/quote]
Oh yeah that's why my Christian friend was beat up with a steel pole by his christian father (and otherwise abused). Yes. Very positive.
Religion can become obsession - and quite often Christians are fools.
On top of that - what the hell is wrong with homosexuals?

From what I see in my church no. I'm a christian and I find that most people in my church don't think positive at all. =/ There are times where they seem so happy and stuff but it just doesn't seem legit. There's only a few Christians I know who are genuinely happy. I think it comes down to the person.

Short answer: Yes, affiliating with some sort of religion, or faith provides a sense of belonging and community to call on.

Complicated answer: I donno. You tell me what you think TS? o-o

[quote=Hathelian]" To be truly happy, sometimes you need to show some humility. So let me see some humility for once.[/quote]

Woo-eee. Someone discovered humility. It makes your mind more clear and loosens stress. It softens thick heads and also enlightens. It's good for both "over-the-top" religious people and the "extremely condescending" atheists.

I think the fear of eternal torture in hell and the belief that God will provide balance each other out.
Honestly, I think happiness depends on the person, not their religion.

Also, I'll have to side with @Buddgie here when she says that "anti-theists" don't seem too happy. When I said "atheist" earlier, I was referring to the particularly annoying breed that pops up online on a regular basis to bash anyone religious and point out their "ignorant belief in a fictional deity" (or something to that accord). You know, the kind that has no particular goal other than to place him/herself on an intellectual pedestal and mock anyone who holds a spiritual worldview.
You know, the kind that shows up on Basilmarket.
On the other hand, atheists that are actually friendly do seem happy. They're rare, especially online, but they exist. I just wish more of them were like that and didn't make sweeping generalizations about Christians, pinning them all as judgmental, hypocritical, uneducated, etc.
I feel that if atheists really want to make a point, they have to stop being hypocrites themselves and live the life they want Christians to live. Condescension and an inflated ego don't really help you when you're trying to convey something.

Edit: You know what? I'm not done. I've been putting up with this stuff for years now, and I need to say something else.
I've heard many Christians make apologies for the members of their religion that [i]are[/i] judgmental, hypocritical, etc. but I've never heard an atheist apologize for the rudeness or attitude of superiority with which other atheists speak to the religious. Why? Is it that hard to notice? [i]People suck[/i]. I don't care who you are, whether you're religious, or your background; people suck. Sometimes you need to admit that and let other people know you acknowledge it.
I don't think I can ever see an atheist as truly "happy", "optimistic", or anything like that until I know that at least [i]one[/i] of them is nice enough to stand out from the crowd and say, "Hey, I'm an atheist, and I'm sorry for all the crap we give the religious." To be truly happy, sometimes you need to show some humility. So let me see some humility for once.

That guy on the corner that yelled "The lord casts a curse on your sex you sinners!" to me and my boyfriend didn't seem to think too positively.

Meanwhile, my sex life is still great and I'm optimistic about it. Atheist here.

I'm certainly more positive than the atheists I know, that's for sure. Of course, most of the atheists I know would come up with some condescending reason such as my "delusional belief in a deity" or something like that. Who knows? Maybe I'm just stupid. In any case, I'm happy.

well not being scared of pretty much anything what awaits you because god is with you is quite positive thinking imo (I'm christian)

Well I'd say they're less stressed in a way?
Without wanting to sound offensive but I'd expect religious people to rely on God thinking "Whatever happens is his will" so they basically just move on fast(er), accepting how it is cause it's how he wanted it to be - and their imagination of someone being there to "lead" and "protect" them.
(Well, could be the same with other religions but I haven't met many people that weren't christian yet)

I gotta admit I find it kind of naive - and they're saving themselves the stress of thinking about their own actions and that their behaviour has consequences.
Cause in the end it was God's will so it's not within their responsibility (shallowly said).

Then again I'd think I'm less stressed IN SOME WAYS cause I truly enjoy being "free", having no weird "rules" pushed on me (which I "follow" without having a "god-inspired" book on my ass), having a free will and deciding things without having to worry what "He" thinks.

overall I'd say it depends on the person - though I would still guess religious people to be less stressed simply cause of their naive/"protected" way of living/thinking/feeling.

I think religious people are more capable of false hope

[quote=dimo]I think the answer lies in a simple question: Is ignorance truly bliss?

Granted this is based on anecdotal evidence, but my hypothesis is that belief in a higher power is linked to being a part of a very closed community, a bubble if you will. Such a community, with limited knowledge of the happenings from around the world, which lets face it are rather grim for the most part, are able to go though day to day life [b]with[/b] the burden of the world on their mind, or so to speak. This simply equates to less stress which correlates with happier person.

Disclaimer: These views are shared by the owner of this account and by no means reflect an absolute truth.[/quote]

Without*

In many cases what you have said is probably true, in others where limited knowledge is not the case, I still believe that they simply have different methods of coping with the "happenings from around the world" rather than carrying the burden as so many do.

I think the answer lies in a simple question: Is ignorance truly bliss?

Granted this is based on anecdotal evidence, but my hypothesis is that belief in a higher power is linked to being a part of a very closed community, a bubble if you will. Such a community, with limited knowledge of the happenings from around the world, which lets face it are rather grim for the most part, are able to go though day to day life with the burden of the world on their mind, or so to speak. This simply equates to less stress which correlates with happier person.

Disclaimer: These views are shared by the owner of this account and by no means reflect an absolute truth.

I'm not religious and I have the highest view on life of anyone I know.
I love life, there's so much to it more than what we can see with our eyes, and that's awesome.

Woo life

Some studies that may correlate:
http://hpq.sagepub.com/content/10/6/753.short
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886901001283
http://psp.sagepub.com/content/31/4/522.short

I personally believe that spirituality in certain cases holds greater potential for positivism (i.e. If one genuinely has a personal relationship with God), though I doubt that such a tendency exists overall simply because most supposedly "religious" people tend to live in an inconsistent manner given their proported beliefs, which can result in confliction. There are too many factors to make a simple, dry-cut conclusion.

I think that nonreligious people think more positively. The sole reason for it is because we realize that there is no afterlife waiting for us. We thus adhere by the YOLO lifestyle.

This isn't true for all religious people, but I would say that believing that the majority of everyone in the world will suffer eternally in hell is a bit of a negative viewpoint.

Yea my parents r mostly happy n nice, they are more Buddhist then other family so they not crazy

Depends on what you mean by religious and what kind of religion they have. From my personal experience, not necessarily. I think it depends on the perspective. If you are talking about doing good deeds to get to heaven or some kind of eternal reward, those people tend to be more self-righteous and stuff and force what they believe on others rather than allowing them to choose. That usually doesn't lead to good things (9/11, the Spanish Inquisition, Mary Tudor lopping off heads, Crusades, etc.)
Also, I think that people who try to prove that religion is stupid and that they are intellectually and morally superior and think that they are more "logical" as a result tend to have similar attitudes.
*The moral of the story is: it doesn't matter what you believe, if you think you are better than others because of it, you will either be miserable or make others miserable.

[quote=Criticism]I believe you either misread my post, or quoted the wrong person.[/quote]

I think I both read it wrong and never meant to quote.

[quote=Criticism]Wouldn't that prove your original statement wrong, that hasty generalizations are created because they're correct? They're based off of ignorance, not truth.

Unfortunately, belief in a deity doesn't signify a happier and kinder person, just as irreligion doesn't signify a bitter, vicious, and depressed person.[/quote]

There are two sides to the argument. One can say Christians live a happier life knowing that there is salvation and eternal peace with God after they die. This leads them to live more positive lives. However, on the other hand, one can say Atheists live happier because of the lack of the belief on a god and afterlife. Believing in that, they live their lives by enjoying it to the fullest.
You can't quantify happiness. Happiness is happiness. You can live happily, or you cannot live happily.

Im christian but im such a pessimist

If person belive in god he will be more positively
so its depend on person

They're psychologically more inclined to think positively because they have a belief on which they can rely on and hope that all goes their way. In essence, they can pray to God or Gods and they think it will make everything better and so that thought would lead them to believe that everything's going to be okay and they'll be happy. While non-theists or atheists would just think crap happens, so think however you want to. There's probably a much more concentrated optimistic population in religion, while there's an equal distribution of optimists, pessimists, and neutral-ists.
Although, positiveness and negativeness when discussing thoughts is subjective and relative, so I doubt you could argue anything regarding positive and negative thoughts anyway.

Varies from people to people. But when I read the Bible (or research it, would be the more proper word), the negative aspects overweights the positive ones. Thinking positively has nothing to do with religion. Religion does affect your way of thinking though.

Funny thing a religious friend of mine said: "Everybody should have equal rights. God made us that way, and we should live by God's word."

However, some days later, he cussed some homosexuals out for being "impure" and defying God, saying they shouldn't have any right to show themselves in public.

Kinda sad IMO

in general i think religious people are thinking more positively, if you are a good person you will go to heaven if you die,
no questions about what created everything but there are also negative thinking's like going to hell if you do really bad things

[quote=Mittens57]But kind of like what Spring786 said, aren't there also downsides to religions also?[/quote]

It depends. Some Religions have all kinds of specific rules and stuff that could make you constantly fear doing something wrong.
However, even though there are different Religions, some people even have their own specific beliefs regarding them.

Really, I'd imagine anyone that beliefs in something after death to be slightly more optimistic, although I know some Atheists do too.

@Mittens57: You just... made me think of Zombies T-T

[quote=KyuGuy]Maybe I'm weird, but I don't think of death as a bad thing in particular O_O
Also, atheist.[/quote]

You're not alone on that! After all, the people that told death was bad never actually experienced it... I think... o.o

[quote=WindyChords]I think they do. Since I'm atheist, I've got nothing to fall back on to cheer me up when thinking about death, but other people who are religious have a belief where when they die, they go to a wonderful place or something.[/quote]

Maybe I'm weird, but I don't think of death as a bad thing in particular O_O
Also, atheist.

But kind of like what Spring786 said, aren't there also downsides to religions also?

Angry nuns whip ppl cuz God considers them lesser beings

Darn right we do. Nah, it all depends on the person. Religion can actually help to sooth you though, much like a massage can... but there are times when you can't get that kink out; like when we remember we have sinful thoughts!