Whats with vouchers
I just recently tried to buy a service for clean slating. I requested for collateral but the person didn't have any collat of his own he could give atm. he could've used his friends items as collat though. However he insisted that vouchers were good enough. Why does everyone insist that vouchers, ( I.e. having random/"well known" players on an mmorpg give "their word" that the person selling the service will not scam) are a valid reason to give full trust to the seller. It makes more sense to me to give collateral( I.e. a specific valued item for a similarly valued item). That way, even if they do scam, you still have an item to sell so it's not that big of a deal. With vouchers, if the seller ran off, who would really care. The vouchers lied and then what? you're still left with losing a lot of money. What are your guys' thoughts on vouchers?
25 Comments • Newest first
[quote=BowlCut]i never get asked for collateral or vouches[/quote]
What does your post have to do with OP's question? I don't think he cares whether or not you do.
@justsofly: I'd be hilarious, wouldn't it?
[quote=NiiSlave]My friend got scammed out of his collateral. I'd much rather deal with vouchers than collat. At least then you don't lose an awesome item as well. If they look shifty, I wouldn't take collat OR vouchers from them... And never deal with anyone that friends haven't traded with personally[/quote]
Problem is over the years all my friends and guild mates have quit so I'm basically a lone wolf on maple
The only time I'd take a vouch over collat is if a buddy of mine could personally vouch for them since I know any of my friends that are willing to vouch for someone would in fact cover any potential loss.
[quote=galeofwind]Learn to trust people[/quote]
It'd be funny how fast you'd change your mind when you get scammed.
My friend got scammed out of his collateral. I'd much rather deal with vouchers than collat. At least then you don't lose an awesome item as well. If they look shifty, I wouldn't take collat OR vouchers from them... And never deal with anyone that friends haven't traded with personally
I don't usually tell people I have vouchers, I just generally expect people to trust me. Whenever I sell thing's, I don't give off the impression of a scammer, nor do I have a reputation of scamming.
In terms of buying, I don't care if they have vouchers. In fact, if they consistently insist on a voucher if I'm really interested in collat, then I would just not trade. A scammer is usually more edgy than regular sellers...
I've grown to just dealing with people I know or people that my friend's know.
The bad thing about providing collateral is for people like me who can't really offer up a item worth the value of the item service that we're selling ( for ex. unique pot 50%). It also sucks for newcomers coming back to the game to get funded through these events... ah well.
If you don't know people then vouchers are irrelevent.
But it's A LOT harder to have collat these days. Tradeable equips and scrolls have fallen to the wayside so you can't really expect people to have some sort of collateral anymore. Vouchers are sadly the only way.
I try and not trust many people online. But people will do anything for a quick buck. Say an item is 1b, scammer grabs hmm 6 "vouchers" and pays them 100m each, scammer runs off and gets 400m profit.
Side aside the stupid story, I don't trust vouchers.
[quote=DogPukeYellow]The flip side of that is if they have FangBlade (or insert-variant-here) vouching for them, they need your business a hell of a lot less than you need theirs, because chances are they'll be well connected.
Not that it's reason for you yourself to change your mind, but I'm just putting convenience into perspective.[/quote]
Hmmm. Great input from everyone. Now... how would we determine who and what guilds are well known after say coming back from a few years hiatus?
[quote=epicderp]Collateral > vouchers all day everyday. I don't give two bleeps if you get fangblade to vouch for you I don't know that person well enough and I'd rather have security in case I get scammed.[/quote]
The flip side of that is if they have FangBlade (or insert-variant-here) vouching for them, they need your business a hell of a lot less than you need theirs, because chances are they'll be well connected.
Not that it's reason for you yourself to change your mind, but I'm just putting convenience into perspective.
Collateral > vouchers all day everyday. I don't give two bleeps if you get fangblade to vouch for you I don't know that person well enough and I'd rather have security in case I get scammed.
if you don't know the vouchers then theres no point to asking for one.
[quote=moomoocow]Hm. What if the person vouched and promised to pay if a scam occurred and the scam occurred but the voucher ran away too?[/quote]
Then you're screwed, but [b]due diligence[/b] is the platform on which that idea is built. Would a whole group or network of players - that you did your [i]own[/i], unadulterated work to identify as reasonably well-reputed - be willing to sully their reputations?
It sounds a lot less likely than a singular unit or duo. Just make sure to fulfill your end.
They're putting their reputation on the line for the other person. If the voucher is well known and seems like a good guy, there's no reason to get super paranoid and assume the guy's gonna scam. I've never really had an issue with it.
@moomoocow: then that's a terrible voucher. Then you proceed to post threads everywhere about him in an attempt to ruin "his rep". If it's a well known person/member of a big guild/alliance, they might even pay you back. My old guild used to do that but there were hardly ever any scamming incidents. I've had to repay billions because someone i trusted decided to go the scammer route, but the voucher system has also allowed me to complete many deals so it goes both ways.
[quote=xtripled]sure collateral makes more sense but some times there's just no access to tradable items worth x amount of mesos.
Vouchers, or at least proper/well known ones will pay you in full if a scam occurs. That's the purpose of a vouch, if they aren't willing to pay if a scam happens, that's not a vouch. However, random people/ people that look noob/unfunded are obviously not to be trusted.[/quote]
Hm. What if the person vouched and promised to pay if a scam occurred and the scam occurred but the voucher ran away too?
Vouchers mean something to me. If you get scammed by the buyer or seller, the vouchers suppose to pay back the meso that get scammed..But would vouchers do that? besides to say "i am so sry".......or "i didnt know he/she would do that"?
sure collateral makes more sense but some times there's just no access to tradable items worth x amount of mesos.
Vouchers, or at least proper/well known ones will pay you in full if a scam occurs. That's the purpose of a vouch, if they aren't willing to pay if a scam happens, that's not a vouch. However, random people/ people that look noob/unfunded are obviously not to be trusted.
Yea, to me vouchers mean nothing since I don't even know well known people/guilds. Plus they could be in on the scam anyways
I refuse to supply collateral myself for it just makes trades needlessly messy (and no one has had any qualms about proceeding). But generally speaking, if their vouchers are well-reputed, I'd advise getting a screenshot of them saying they'll cover the cost (be sure to identify the number) if their friend scams.
If I ever vouch for anyone, that's the minimum I'd do since I'm begging to propose to a stranger that they're trustworthy. If that's the case, I should believe it myself. It's a necessary, critical condition. I'd pay an additional fee for their troubles too.
If their friends aren't even willing to do that, don't bother.
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Addendum: I'll never concede to the "never-trust-anybody" rhetoric. Plenty of decent players. Superior emotional intelligence is everything in this context.
Why would you question this? Don't trust some random guy over the internet that offers vouching..
Learn to trust people
Vouchers mean nothin to me, even if they're well known.