Thoughts on Religion
Were we meant to worship Jesus? Did he mean for us to worship him? Even if he's the son of god, why should we worship him? People say that Jesus and God are one, so worshiping one is worshiping the other right? However, Jesus never said he was the son of God. Other people said he was the son of god. And also, did Jesus want us to create an entirely separate religion apart from Judaism? Or perhaps he doesn't care how we worship him (or god), as long as we do it.
I understand about the dying for our sins, how he had to, it was the only way. As my pastor explained, the old law, "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth," shows that somebody had to die in order for our sins to be forgiven. God could not simply forgive our sins, because if so God would lose his credibility (actually that's not exactly how he put it but it was something along those lines). So, basically, God gave up his one and only son in order for us to balance out our sins. I thought this meant that God was showing us that people had to die in order for our sins to be forgiven, as a sort of threat (I guess). This, again, was not true. All our sins had to be forgiven, and, like I said earlier, God could not simply forgive our sins, so he gave up his son so we could be forgiven.
Speaking of being forgiven, my pastor also mentioned how, as it is said in the Lord's Prayer, we must forgive others if we wish to be forgiven ourselves. God could never forgive us if we don't forgive "those who trespass against us"
But wait; I thought God couldn't forgive us? Does he have to send another son every few years to forgive all our sins? Or does forgiving somebody else basically count as the same thing?
And besides, why does any of this even matter? How did anybody ever know that God existed before Jesus came? Did they learn from whoever the first Prophet was? How did the first Prophet now? Maybe if Moses, who apparently saw god, was the first Prophet, it would make more sense. But the thing is, he wasn't. I think that some person who was in an influential position thought this all up one day, either in a dream or perhaps in idle time. He probably thought of this as a great way to make money, although the real money didn't start rolling in until Christianity came along, when Jesus convinced a lot of people to believe in God. Perhaps the religion of Christianity was created simply to make money.
Another theory, that is probably more likely, is that people thought up God and/or other religions to explain why things happen, or things that they didn't understand. Even nowadays, if anything happened that people don't understand, they say it is God's doing, or magic. That's probably what people first thought when they saw fire, too. They probably thought that since they didn't understand it, it was being controlled by some greater entity.
Speaking of a greater entity, perhaps people turn to God when they are feeling distressed or unsatisfied with their life. They turn to god because they feel weak, and unable to do things themselves. They believe in God so that they can feel better about themselves, and because of that, I do not hate people who follow other religions; I merely believe that they are misunderstood, or perhaps they were upset one day and turned to God.
That's another reason why people believe in God. Whether it's because they were taught about Him when they were young, or because somebody else convinced them, once they believe in God, they stay that way. Since they already believe in God, they don't need to be convinced of His existence, it's just something they "know"; things like Church are routine and normal. Basically, God is like drugs. (I'm probably going to get flamed for that reference, but if I do, know that I put this in, saying to read on in order to understand) Once you get started you don't go back. It becomes normal to you, despite the fact that you know it isn't true/right. In fact, it's worse than that, because you see no reason to quit. It's not causing you any harm, or so you think. God becomes like food and water you. Completely normal and part of your routine. You get yourself to the point where you absolutely think that God is true, no matter what other people say, and you would ignore threads like this. Are you thinking about it now? I've known people to just completely disregard what I'm saying, and just blindly and bluntly continue what they think.
Here's another question for you guys. Say that God does exist. Why should we worship him? What did he do for us? Maybe he created us, although the theories that people have about our creation (such as the big bang) make far more sense and have much more evidence backing them then religious, creationist stories. Whoever thought of the first book of the bible, Genesis, was either delusional or wrote it knowing that he was lying. Or perhaps he was like the people I mentioned above, who get themselves so hyped up about God that they actually think he's real. In fact, he must have gone beyond that, to the point where he makes things up about God and then believes them so strongly that even other people think it's true. Anyways, back to my point. Why should we worship God? What does he do for us? Say he created us. I suppose that means we should worship him, seeing as if he created us he could probably just as easily destroy us. However, that would make us only worship him out of fear for our own lives, in selfishness.
So why? Why worship god? Is it because if we pray for things, he'll give us them? Because he can just give us whatever we want, just for saying a short speech, or even a few words? That, again, is selfishness. Maybe because we can pray for other people, especially in cases where they are sick and/or in the hospital. I suppose that makes it sound a little bit less selfish, perhaps even to the point where it is right to worship God; to have the ability to call on a greater entity to save our friends and family members instead of using our own intelligence and ability to do it ourselves. But what if you don't have the ability? What if the person is beyond saving by any known human method? Then does it become okay to pray? And of course, this is all assuming that God exists.
And why waste your time praying, even if God exists? Has he ever done anything for you? There have been scientific studies on prayer, testing to see if people from religious families and people who aren't have different outcomes from a disease or injury. Between people who pray for themselves and have other people pray for them get different results than people who don't. The conclusion: Nothing. Prayer does nothing. So why waste your time?
You may think God has done something for you. You asked for strength at the right moment, and he gave it to you. Do you know what it really was? Placebo effect. Mind over body. You think something will happen, and you believe it so much that it actually has an effect, or so you think. In fact, sometimes diseases and illnesses such as allergic reactions can be caused by worrying and thinking that your having it so much that it actually happens. So perhaps, prayer is a good thing. If you believe strongly enough in something, it just might come true.
Ahah! Believing in something so much that it actually becomes true. Could it be that all humans believe in God so much that God could actually, truly, exist? That may be some of your arguments. Well, let's think about that. Does the human mind have the ability to change the past of the universe? No, I didn't think so. I suppose we could think that the past existed the way the Bible says it does, but we can only think that. And besides, I don't think that a human mind can create a greater entity, who lives and controls everything from heaven, granting wishes through prayer.
Well, I'm getting tired now, so I'm going to take a break and post this now. I'll write more later. Thanks to all who read this, feel free to post your own thoughts on religion below. Have a good day!
25 Comments • Newest first
@ScrambledEgg: Yea I just realized i've kinda been focusing on Christianity. Maybe I should read some other religious texts?
[quote=Mortal920]Thanks for all the opinions guys, I'm researching various subjects and articles about religion, reading the bible, and checking this thread every so often in order to learn more about this. Keep em coming [/quote]
I really urge you to stop focusing on Christianity. There are many other ways to go about than life rather than "Christian God" or "No one up there", and having knowledge of other religions will educate you more about the world around you as well.
[quote=gath]To me it does. However, atheists must also accept that it works both ways. If you don't accept a true prophecy as, at the very least suggesting God is real, then you shouldn't be able to use prophecies as proof that God doesn't exist.[/quote]
Irrelevant.
Thanks for all the opinions guys, I'm researching various subjects and articles about religion, reading the bible, and checking this thread every so often in order to learn more about this. Keep em coming
wall of text
[quote=ReLaX]So showing prophecies being true or false has no impact on God's stance at all?[/quote]
To me it does. However, atheists must also accept that it works both ways. If you don't accept a true prophecy as, at the very least suggesting God is real, then you shouldn't be able to use prophecies as proof that God doesn't exist.
[quote=gath]Praying for sick people in a scientific study would be for the wrong reasons.[/quote]
-Okay, good to know.
[quote=gath]Also, Paul was definently inspired by God. However, testing prophecies is not the same as testing God. We know this because prophecies have been shown to be right before, and atheists still don't accept it as proof. It's a two-way street.[/quote]
So showing prophecies being true or false has no impact on God's stance at all?
[quote=ReLaX]"After all, the prayer is then not made for the right reasons."
- So praying for sick people in a hospital is wrong? Fine, this tells alot about you...
"In Thessolonians, we have to remember that Paul is speaking. He might think we should test prophecies."
- So you don't think he was inspired by God even though he has been a huge contributer to the bible?[/quote]
Praying for sick people in a scientific study would be for the wrong reasons. Also, Paul was definently inspired by God. However, testing prophecies is not the same as testing God. We know this because prophecies have been shown to be right before, and atheists still don't accept it as proof. It's a two-way street.
Alright guys, based on some of your suggestions, I'm gonna read the entire Bible, cover to cover. I'll see what I think after that.
"After all, the prayer is then not made for the right reasons."
- So praying for sick people in a hospital is wrong? Fine, this tells alot about you...
"In Thessolonians, we have to remember that Paul is speaking. He might think we should test prophecies."
- So you don't think he was inspired by God even though he has been a huge contributer to the bible?
Alright, there's a lot of replies to my post and I'm on an iPod, so I'm not going to quite anybody, and just hit the high points.
1. Humans learned about God originally because they lived with him, in the garden of Eden, originally.
2. If all the years are measured in the same way, I guess either A. The earth is 6000 years old or B. The Bible is wrong or C. IIRC, the bible never says how old the world is. It's possible that whoever interpreted the age of the earth as 6000 years was wrong.
3. I believe the reasoning for Elijah being allowed to test the lord is that this was still before Jesus came. Perhaps God wanted to use Jesus as the 'final proof' and didn't want to do more than giving up his son to prove to us that he exists. Also, in my bible Luke 4:12 says 'do not put the lord to the test' saying that Jesus should not test the Lord by jumping off a cliff and see if he's saved.
4. In Thessolonians, we have to remember that Paul is speaking. He might think we should test prophecies. However, I still believe that God would not grant prayers used in a scientific study. After all, the prayer is then not made for the right reasons.
5. Different translations can play a big role. Overall, I doubt there's a single version of the Bible that is completely correct, in translated languages. To accurately read the bible you would have to learn to read and write every language one of the books is written in. Also, I do not think the world being built in 7 days should be the subject of debate, but the idea that it is 6000 years old.
6. They may be cop-outs, but that does not mean they are wrong. Also, I think it is possible that dinosaurs never existed, or were buried deeper in the earth after they had co-existed with humans, and made to seem older. There are a number of possibilities. I think it's foolish to say that science (or God, or the bible) is definently correct about anything. I may get flames for this, but it's my belief. Dont get me wrong, science is still a great tool for explaining things, but I think it's foolish to say we have the right answer for anything. 100 years from now, they could have a different answer that everyone believes is right. And this theory could make the big bang seem to have little support, so the new theory is right. And that's the beautiful thing about things like this: No one knows the answer. All we can do is guess.
[quote=gath]Luke 4:12 "Do not put your lord to the test". God doesn't want it to be an obvious proven fact that he exists. Even now, when God is not proven to be real, people believe out of fear. However, if everyone knew you'd go to hell if you didn't do something, everyone would do it because of fear. What God wants us to do is to follow him because we want to, not because of fear. I doubt he would like the idea of prayer being used in a scientific study.
@above: I say that it's certainly possible for an all-powerful being to create the world in seven days. As for the world's age, either
1:Science is wrong, or
2.The bible is using 'year' differently. It's quite possible that God measures a year differently, or
3.The bible is not literal.[/quote]So we shouldn't bother testing the lord? Don't bother studying religion with science? The bible is not literal? God might measure a year differently? Science is wrong? You don't think these are just cop outs?
And it's safe to say that science is definitely correct about everything NOT being created in 6 days. Do you really think humans and dinosaurs co-existed?
[quote=ItsSpamSpam]go youtube and search "Maher Zain"
and listen all the song . its the reality.[/quote]
A muslim? I don't think that is "reality".
[quote=Drynk]Enough with these threads . Go talk against the professionals . Superiors have a bigger effect if you can take them down . Us followers of different superiors cannot change each others mind for CRAP . LOCK THIS THREAD .
Btw, God ftw .[/quote]
I would love to go head on to Kirk Cameron,Kent Hovind or some other "superior". But they wouldn't bother going against me, seeing that I am a nobody and they wouldn't get anything out of it.
[quote=c1rca]Well let's see. As far as we know, NOW and continuing from now we are the smartest forms of life and God is STILL here after how long?..
We still have all of this technology and physicists and what not. God is still here. Don't you think if a human was smart enough he would disprove God? Doesn't look like you can.[/quote]
Not true, God is made in such a way that he is more or less impossible to disprove, this doesn't make the case for him any better though. The more and more technology and knowledge we get the more and more redundant he becomes.
[quote=c1rca]If you be more open minded and see that the bible is incredible how it all makes sense to this day, maybe you'll change your mind.[/quote]
Or realize that it is all just bull----
You can't change the context or meanings of the bible either, you must follow more and more to be able to understand its true meanings.[/quote]
[quote=gath]Luke 4:12 "Do not put your lord to the test". God doesn't want it to be an obvious proven fact that he exists. Even now, when God is not proven to be real, people believe out of fear. However, if everyone knew you'd go to hell if you didn't do something, everyone would do it because of fear. What God wants us to do is to follow him because we want to, not because of fear. I doubt he would like the idea of prayer being used in a scientific study.
@above: I say that it's certainly possible for an all-powerful being to create the world in seven days. As for the world's age, either
1:Science is wrong, or
2.The bible is using 'year' differently. It's quite possible that God measures a year differently, or
3.The bible is not literal.[/quote]
1 Thessalonians 5:20-21 (King James Bible)
20 Despise not prophesyings.
21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
1 Thessalonians 5:20-21 (New International Version, ©2010)
20 Do not treat prophecies with contempt
21 but test them all; hold on to what is good
Apparantly he wants us to test his prophecies, but isn't that the equivalence of testing God? If the christian God exists, and he inspired the prophecies to be correct and if any of them are incorrect, then apparantly either God do not exist or he failed to predict the future and is not all-knowledgeable nor all-powreful.
I think you should just lock this thread please, it's kind of awkward for a lot people.
[quote=ae86]Religion does nothing but brain wash and start wars.
End thread.[/quote]
Says the person dressed in communist colors, like the good old saying "better dead than red."
Not the best place for sensible debating/insight.
[quote=gath]Luke 4:12 "Do not put your lord to the test". God doesn't want it to be an obvious proven fact that he exists. Even now, when God is not proven to be real, people believe out of fear. However, if everyone knew you'd go to hell if you didn't do something, everyone would do it because of fear. What God wants us to do is to follow him because we want to, not because of fear. I doubt he would like the idea of prayer being used in a scientific study.
@above: I say that it's certainly possible for an all-powerful being to create the world in seven days. As for the world's age, either
1:Science is wrong, or
2.The bible is using 'year' differently. It's quite possible that God measures a year differently, or
3.The bible is not literal.[/quote]
Here's one question I'd like to hear an answer to: How did people find out about god?
Luke 4:12 "Do not put your lord to the test". God doesn't want it to be an obvious proven fact that he exists. Even now, when God is not proven to be real, people believe out of fear. However, if everyone knew you'd go to hell if you didn't do something, everyone would do it because of fear. What God wants us to do is to follow him because we want to, not because of fear. I doubt he would like the idea of prayer being used in a scientific study.
@above: I say that it's certainly possible for an all-powerful being to create the world in seven days. As for the world's age, either
1:Science is wrong, or
2.The bible is using 'year' differently. It's quite possible that God measures a year differently, or
3.The bible is not literal.
Do you guys smell that?
It's the smell of a flame war.
EDIT: Ironically, I need to ask something... what do Christians have to say about Earth being made in 7 days and that the earth is only couple of thousand years old?
uh i owe Jesus money
oh God(any God will do) not religion talk again 6th time today
Jesus,God,evil,sin,goodnes=good,blah,derp
i am done man i ma just go to hell or something i wanna see if it has the cool spikes and torture and like the brochure or was that somewhere else?
[quote=NoobCake]Jesus said he was the Son of God many times.
Hell, he even talked like paulpker, in third person.
"For the Son of Man will be handed over... yada yada yada"[/quote]
Wow, I guess people just flat out lie to me. Anyways, read the rest of it, that was just the first paragraph.
Jesus said he was the Son of God many times.
Hell, he even talked like paulpker, in third person.
"For the Son of Man will be handed over... yada yada yada"