General

@Hiraku
id rather have all these changes than be doing the same thing for 5 years. that would get boring. big patches like this are what keep people into the game and they get "quitters" to start playing again.

[quote=doodorz]If you're going to quit a class because of a small nerf then you shouldn't be playing it anyway. I'm going to guess you're a UE or a post bb drk? That's how all of them act.

either be a damage whore or be a drk.[/quote]

We got nerfed from Original to Big Bang, reducing our damage from 1020% to 928% and giving us a base critical chance to make up for it. Sure it seems alright, but they took away the critical from Adventurer Rings, and nerfed Sharp Eyes making Berserk even more useless with Critical multipliers.

Now for Chaos patch, they're 'buffing' us to back where we started. There is no change except a weaker Berserk multiplier when counting Criticals.

Now for Jump patch, they're 'buffing' us to give an even better attack like Heroes; PDR + Fast Delay. NOW we're back to square one (OG), and nothing has greatly changed except the fact that every class without the word 'Dark Knight' is over powered.

You like?

Well u still have a good number of ppl who dont hve decent HB and i think dk's are still useful they are legends

[quote=Unreactable]Elnido DK

lemme think about that

hmmmm

Nah, he's definitely a pre bb DK.

Dont ask troll questions please.[/quote]

Maybe he just wasn't being observative.

[quote=ShiranuiSan]I see good point. but doesn't impale look faster though .. at least to me it seemed faster than buster.
Also, I don't see any difference in sacrifice hitting 2 times at half dmg and once full dmg .. could you please clarify?[/quote]

assume 50k range (for the starting-to-be godlies out there)
boss 30% potential

sacrifice hits
50k*1.6*1.3*6.9
50k*14.352
717k damage.
add a critical, which on average is around 1.42 damage, and you are already breaking the damage cap, you can lower the range if you have SE.

and buster with a polearm is SLIGHTLY slower than impale, making this "buff" almost unnoticeable, the buff is on the fact that it hits more monsters, and has 20% PDR ignore, but not on the damage

[quote=ShiranuiSan]Chaos:
buster deals (main atk) 170% = Buff
Jump:
Dark Impale (new main atk) + 20 speed = Buff

Overall Buff[/quote]

small problem: with a polearm, chaos buster is as strong as impale, making that "buff" almost unnoticeable. if besides impale they made, let's say, sacrifice hit two times at half the damage, then yea, i would shut up, but it isn't.

also, before BB, buster was 170*3*2, after BB, buster was 145*4*1.6, meaning BB was a nerf.

Can Dark Knights kill Pap in less than 10 seconds? Sadly we can't even hit it 30 times in 10 seconds.

@darkspawn980: Dk's berserk is passive, while FC is a active buff, you can re activate it easily by just potting ur self, however for fc, i need to wait for cooldown, which is a minute and a half. It also takes away half of my HP which could make you die so easily. We actually deserve the buff in chaos. We got nerfed badly after BB. I admit we were OP Pre BB, but now we as weak as a green snail.

@stanley22: nah, it wont, i have a DB too, DB's gain much more power than DrK's, not trolling or anything this time around, that's why everyone calls them OP

@darkspawn980: But eventually, when i get to the same lv and similar equips as my DB, same % equips, my DK would deal more dmg than US. A lot more.

[quote=stanley22]@Celyfaye: yea... but u still get zerk at 4th job, as we get final cut. Our current mobbing skill is actually compatible against our 1v1 skill. That's kinda sad to me. We don't get much in 4th job either, however u guys have way better survivability than DBs. I can't even tank a body hit from zak.[/quote]

your speed makes you deal more damage than dark knights, in what we cast 1 buster, you can cast 4 US, it's not OP, it's a different form of balance.

ah, sorry!
misread/misinterpretation.
was a 5:30am post!

[quote=chickenpoodl]give anyone the amount of hacked gear he has and anyone can be strong. comon' man use your common sense. =_=[/quote]

Oh no, I'm saying even with a range like that it's still near impossible for Crusher > Sacrifice.

[quote=Hiraku][url=http://i51.tinypic.com/2rxhbbr.jpg] 102100 ~ 121500 [/url]

Popping only 380,000 fully buffed with Dark Aura on a monster w/o PDR (Pot on Spear). Sadly, Sacrifice remains the best one versus one bossing skill at the moment with no exceptions.[/quote]

give anyone the amount of hacked gear he has and anyone can be strong. comon' man use your common sense. =_=

@starrlia: OMG that's so godly D= Now let's take a look at kms DKs, hitting dmg cap with buster each hit.

[url=http://i51.tinypic.com/2rxhbbr.jpg] 102100 ~ 121500 [/url]

Popping only 380,000 fully buffed with Dark Aura on a monster w/o PDR (Pot on Spear). Sadly, Sacrifice remains the best one versus one bossing skill at the moment with no exceptions.

@Celyfaye: yea... but u still get zerk at 4th job, as we get final cut. Our current mobbing skill is actually compatible against our 1v1 skill. That's kinda sad to me. We don't get much in 4th job either, however u guys have way better survivability than DBs. I can't even tank a body hit from zak.

[quote=stanley22]I m not trying to sound mean or anything, but my DB hits anywhere from 30-40k, and btw, he's lv 132. Now let's look at my DrK. I already hit 30-40k with sacrifice. He's lv 84. I don't even have 3% gear for the DK yet, and i got like almost a complete set of 3% on my DB. Don't u think that's a bit OP. BTW this is not biased.[/quote]

DrKs get all their main skills early, and lose out in the long run. He may seem strong in the beginning, but after other classes get their main 4th job skills maxed, they beat us in terms of damage.

[quote=starrlia]I'm not quitting my drk, but I still think Nexon is stupid. Why do they go and buff the already OP classes and then nerf the weakest ones...That doesn't make much sense. Like why do dual bladers get so many new skills?[/quote]

I m not trying to sound mean or anything, but my DB hits anywhere from 30-40k, and btw, he's lv 132. Now let's look at my DrK. I already hit 30-40k with sacrifice. He's lv 84. I don't even have 3% gear for the DK yet, and i got like almost a complete set of 3% on my DB. Don't u think that's a bit OP. BTW this is not biased.

@pritst: that's the whole point, you aren't playing your DrK just to deal the most damage around right? you are trying to deal the most damage with your DrK, which is different.

20 movement speed and 60% atk

@pritst: yep, however, any of the classes i mentioned (or was it on another thread?) would do much more damage, with the same equips.

and for every strong DrK, there's an even stronger mech, wild hunter, bowmaster, assasin, chief bandit, etc etc etc, we are nowhere near the top of the damage list, all we have going for us is sacrifice. which is iffy at best.

and i was going to Czak before i had even 1% str, why? because i had pals, i also always had a party when i was weak, friends own strength pal.

Thats in Jump, not chaos....
so, berserk would be replaced by dark impale
Thats 5 attacks rather than 4
So thats actually better

@darkspawn980: I play Drk for damage also i dont see anything wrong with our damage. Im pretty sure maplestory wouldnt be fun if you are running around hitting crappy damage and you dont get picked up for parties,bossruns,training. I dont know why people think Drks are weak you should know since you are in scania that there are alot of strong Drks out their.

[quote=AyoGetMeLow]Chaos~ crusher changes into 170% per hit instead of the current 145% and you will still retain your 4th hit with zerk.
Jump~ crusher stays at 170% forever, 4th hit gets removed with zerk. you will get dark impale for your 4th job attack.
Our damage naturally sucks. because our attacks don't do 999999999% per hit.[/quote]

jump crusher is 185% people, it still sucks tho

[quote=sacredgaurd1]Danq why so many ppl trying to talk ish to him? I mean if you spent hours and money making a character and it gets nerfed and all your hardwork is wasted i think you would be highly upset also. U guys are to quick to start getting defensive and stuff over ms. especially @xxxhurricanex sit down somewhere with your facts see his point of view. On topic now, depends on your fundings really bro and Dark Impale is pretty sick.[/quote]

sorry, but no, i understand being annoyed because we get weaker, but quitting because you can't deal as much damage as X class? that's just damage hoaring, in here we apprecciate people that play FOR FUN, if he played FOR DAMAGE he wouldn't have made a DrK, in the past 5 years, or at least since 4th job was introduced, DrK's always had some sort of handicap, ALWAYS. we weren't, at any point, great damage dealers.

not to mention, he came here complaining about stuff he doesn't even know if will hapen or not.

Danq why so many ppl trying to talk ish to him? I mean if you spent hours and money making a character and it gets nerfed and all your hardwork is wasted i think you would be highly upset also. U guys are to quick to start getting defensive and stuff over ms. especially @xxxhurricanex sit down somewhere with your facts see his point of view. On topic now, depends on your fundings really bro and Dark Impale is pretty sick.

i don't know why but this thread start made me abnormally annoyed O_O

[quote=Liltravi]Wtf? A potion cooldown?[/quote]

Empress, Ani, Dragon Rider, and more in the future.

EDIT: We're going to be useful at Empress after Jump though. Potential lock and %HP Beholder is where we shine.

[quote=xAnojayx]right now buster does 145%x4 = 580%
and after jump its gonna be 175%x3 = 525%
so its not a 15% nerf its a 55% nerf

i might be wrong so i apologize in advance[/quote]

185*3 in jump, it' still weaker than now.

Wtf? A potion cooldown?

[quote=chickenpoodl]
the hp issue with sacrifice is another problem now with more and more bosses having potion cooldown...[/quote]

They also all have Zombify ~________~.

[quote=rakmalla]their nerfing us cause they gave us PSB to compensate[/quote]

They gave us PSB to compensate because they're nerfing us.

But yeah, crusher nerf is happening during jump and we get dark impale anyways so relax and quit ms.

the thing is, dk's used to be a jack of all trades... decent at eveyrthing, not really good at anything.
if you're fightin' a boss with known elemental issues adn theres a pally around, you grab them.
if its a boss with minimal survival req or require sheer damage output, you get the heros.
if in doubt or if situation is variable, you grab the dk's.

as the game progressed, the need for dk's have dropped off, with the intro of bigbang especially. potential stats with the undispellable hb was the first step to all that.

taking a dk as a damage dealer wasnt' bad, before... pretty solid class. not necesarily the strongest, but consistent. and that took away that took, forcing us to use a skill that is not only a hassle to use (range wise), but rediculously expensive for those who struggle to pay for potions.
the hp issue with sacrifice is another problem now iwth more and more bosses having potion cooldown...

[quote=chickenpoodl]i totally understand where some of you are coming from in terms of "playing a drk because its a drk"
but you also have to see it from the perspective of a functional standpoint.

a lot of us (usually the higher level ones) have assumed a certain kind of role in their guild/alliance/server wahtever it might be.
and this role is usually pretty based on the class that they are. a lot of these changes are so drastic taht it really interferes with some of this.

some ppl wont' really understand this because their gameplay has only gone so far and haven't experienced some of this, but i know some of you have. and i'm certain you are amongst those who do understand what i'm talking about.

that is partially the reason why i kinda stopped playing after a while. it isn't entirely because the class sucks or the class is broken. we all knew that. but the thing is my role or whatever diminished so much taht the game really isn't what it used to be. i mean hey i'm cool with that. i'm fine with coming on and just doin' whatever, but the problem is your position to some ppl haven't changed despite the changes nexon have made to our characters.

you guys gotta admit that we were alot more capable as a class in general before big bang. and with each subsequent patch we've been getting worse.
a lot of those ppl don't understand taht and it gets annoying as hell when ppl egg you to do things taht you personally feel you can't really do well enough anymore with the same character/gear.

those at higher levles, esp at 200, take on that role at bossing and the abilities of this class have been diminishing and our overall usefulness has dropped off a lot compared to before. and its that which bothers a lot of us. not any specific shortcoming of the class[/quote]

big bang made us a wee bit stronger, problem is, everybody else got the best parts of the deal, i mean, want to make the dark knights useful again? all you need to do is one single thing: make hyper body un-dispellable, that's it, that alone is enough to bump us back to great party support, and we can actually focus on attacking instead of having to look at the top of the screen, to make sure the sairs don't get dispelled and killed.

really, i am at the point where when i go to boss, i ask if everyone has decent HB, and annoys me if someone doesn't, a DrK not wanting to do HB, you go figure.

right now, before chaos, we get 135%x4=540%
in between chaos and jump, we get 175x4=700%
after jump, we get 175x3=525% and dark impale (not entirely sure what dark impale is but it sounds a hell of a lot cooler than dragon buster)
we get a huge buff in between and a new move after. and the "nerfing" is only 15%, so calm the hell down.

i totally understand where some of you are coming from in terms of "playing a drk because its a drk"
but you also have to see it from the perspective of a functional standpoint.

a lot of us (usually the higher level ones) have assumed a certain kind of role in their guild/alliance/server wahtever it might be.
and this role is usually pretty based on the class that they are. a lot of these changes are so drastic taht it really interferes with some of this.

some ppl wont' really understand this because their gameplay has only gone so far and haven't experienced some of this, but i know some of you have. and i'm certain you are amongst those who do understand what i'm talking about.

that is partially the reason why i kinda stopped playing after a while. it isn't entirely because the class sucks or the class is broken. we all knew that. but the thing is my role or whatever diminished so much taht the game really isn't what it used to be. i mean hey i'm cool with that. i'm fine with coming on and just doin' whatever, but the problem is your position to some ppl haven't changed despite the changes nexon have made to our characters.

you guys gotta admit that we were alot more capable as a class in general before big bang. and with each subsequent patch we've been getting worse.
a lot of those ppl don't understand taht and it gets annoying as hell when ppl egg you to do things taht you personally feel you can't really do well enough anymore with the same character/gear.

those at higher levles, esp at 200, take on that role at bossing and the abilities of this class have been diminishing and our overall usefulness has dropped off a lot compared to before. and its that which bothers a lot of us. not any specific shortcoming of the class

a DK or DrK is for helping your party and never dying, not for dealing all the deadly blows. that being said, a well funded DK can destroy.

hyper body, magic crush
meat shields for char with low hp?

>damage hoaring
>playing a DrK

sorry son, pick one, you can't have both

[quote=xxxhuricanex]Get your facts straight, son. Everything you said is true, but they are all happening during [b]Jump![/b]

Seriously, go quit if you're playing for damage. If we're 'weak as crap already' then why are you playing this class?

Don't listen to stupid rumors, if you really like a class, you'll play it for [b]now[/b], not what it will be in the future[/quote]

what she said. i made a mech because my friend was that class and he reached 76, i wanted to show him off so i made one and now look at me.

Just quit your drk then, nobody cares if you do.

the 4th hit will still be here in chaos, and buster gets a slight dmg increase.

however in jump the 4th hit will be gone, but we get a new skill called dark impale, so keep your pants on

[quote=Remicks]I like DrKs and all their cool effects, but they ARE weak, no one can deny that; where's the point in nerfing them even more?[/quote]
buster will not even be used anymore after "jump!" because we get dark impale
get your facts straight before complaining

I like DrKs and all their cool effects, but they ARE weak, no one can deny that; where's the point in nerfing them even more?