Worthless Dual Blades
Has anyone else realized how worthless dualblades are late game? I know I'm not the most funded player out there, but I find my damage negligible compared to that of any other class of equal level. Also with a staggering hp pool of just over 6k at level 144 I get 2 or 3 shot killed by mobs around my level. No defensive skills, and yet melee range. It doesn't make sense and its really irritating that I have an infinitely harder time going on c.zak runs than the rest of my guildies. They get to focus on the battle and how to do the most damage consistently, while I have to stare at my health bar waiting to smash the potion button if I drop under 3k hp.
Yeah the flashy attacks and the idea of having two weapons really pulled me in at the start and pre 100 training wasn't all that difficult but after that I may as well leach at LHC all the way to 200.
/rant
/QQ
60 Comments • Newest first
You are very confused, or you just have a lot of trouble using your DB correctly. I almost NEVER die under any circumstances, I rarely take much damage outside of LHC or bosses, and I deal more damage than most jobs of similar level and funding.
I don't believe there was any type of nerf. My db is doing a he I I of a lot of damage
[quote=Jinhee]Yep. They get a few new passives, and major damage changes to the old skills.
1st job new skill
Side Step: increase dodge rate
Sharp Slash: something like BF
Flash jump: range increased
double stab removed
nimble body removed
1.5 job
Self haste: Master level changed to 10 moved to 1.5 job
Tornado Spin: moved to 1,5 job, master level decreased to 15 damage increased
Triple stab: removed
2nd job skill change
dual booster: moved to 2nd job skill, mastery decreased to 10
Fatal blow: moved to 2nd job skill, damage increased
Slash storm: moved to 2nd job, hits 3 times
2.5 job
Flying Assaulter: moved to 2.5 job; Damage, times hit, stun ratio increased
Upper Stab: Damage, AOE range increased.
Flash Bang: darkness chance increased
3rd job skills
Shadow Evasion: New passive skill: +?% dodge chance, on successful dodge gives 1 second increase of att and 100% crit chance.
Advanced Dark sight: damage in dark sight increased
Vital Steal: the Stolen amount increased
Bloody Storm: Damage and hit time increased, passive increase of FA and TS damage on skill level increase
Mirror Image: mastery level decreased to 20, buff duration increased
Chains of Hell: Damage increased, Dark Sight no longer needed to activate, Stun chance added
4th job
Fatal Venom: new passive skill with stackable poison
Dual Expertise: Increase of Dual weapon mastery(min-max range decrease), Attack, Accuracy, dodge chance
Sharpness: minimum Critical damage increased
Final Cut: less hp cost, 1 sec of damage immunity after use
Blade Fury: Aoe Range increased, hit time increased, Damage increased, PDR added
Dummy Effect: dummy hp increased, the dummy now absorbs damage taken by you
Phanthom Blow: Damage Increased, PDR increased.[/quote]
awesome, not that much of a skill change but still better than nothing
[quote=twopointonefour]They.. basically ripped a lot of archer skills and put them into the class lol.
IE. Mirror Target lowering damage taken, crit rate bonus for misses.[/quote]
Just 2, but I agree. The 3rd job evasion skill looks like Dodge, and the 4th job add-on dummy effect makes it similar to EP without the puppet attacking.
guy above me your clearly saying they should be stronger... not on par
'its not enough'
i also like how even though you claim they are at the bottom of said list... they always get 1st picked for boss runs..
let it be another class..
They.. basically ripped a lot of archer skills and put them into the class lol.
IE. Mirror Target lowering damage taken, crit rate bonus for misses.
Any level 200 DB wanna take off all your equips, use a clean level 10 dagger and katara and solo krexel's second eye. How long did it take? No potential skills, just your own class buffs, no att pots.
[quote=Jinhee]Yep. They get a few new passives, and major damage changes to the old skills.
1st job new skill
Side Step: increase dodge rate
Sharp Slash: something like BF
Flash jump: range increased
double stab removed
nimble body removed
1.5 job
Self haste: Master level changed to 10 moved to 1.5 job
Tornado Spin: moved to 1,5 job, master level decreased to 15 damage increased
Triple stab: removed
2nd job skill change
dual booster: moved to 2nd job skill, mastery decreased to 10
Fatal blow: moved to 2nd job skill, damage increased
Slash storm: moved to 2nd job, hits 3 times
2.5 job
Flying Assaulter: moved to 2.5 job; Damage, times hit, stun ratio increased
Upper Stab: Damage, AOE range increased.
Flash Bang: darkness chance increased
3rd job skills
Shadow Evasion: New passive skill: +?% dodge chance, on successful dodge gives 1 second increase of att and 100% crit chance.
Advanced Dark sight: damage in dark sight increased
Vital Steal: the Stolen amount increased
Bloody Storm: Damage and hit time increased, passive increase of FA and TS damage on skill level increase
Mirror Image: mastery level decreased to 20, buff duration increased
Chains of Hell: Damage increased, Dark Sight no longer needed to activate, Stun chance added
4th job
Fatal Venom: new passive skill with stackable poison
Dual Expertise: Increase of Dual weapon mastery(min-max range decrease), Attack, Accuracy, dodge chance
Sharpness: minimum Critical damage increased
Final Cut: less hp cost, 1 sec of damage immunity after use
Blade Fury: Aoe Range increased, hit time increased, Damage increased, PDR added
Dummy Effect: dummy hp increased, the dummy now absorbs damage taken by you
Phanthom Blow: Damage Increased, PDR increased.[/quote]
That looks quite sexy for 4th job. I can't wait till this gets here. <3
i don't feel DBs need a full on revamp because DBs got a pretty good buff in chaos and i got everything i wanted i.e. complete 4th job overhaul, HOWEVER! there are some things broken with DBs that clearly need some fixing such as... y are we close range classes with no def or hp or avoidability,(well i have avoid because im funded but for the average DB, you probably get hit more then missed) that just doesnt make sense to me. i want Shifter! i want a few defensive skills like meso guard, shield/katara mastery, powerguard etc (Be creative nexon). Because honestly what good is having so much damage/power if your going to be dead in boss runs -_-
[quote=sirxfluffy]We're worthless in Cwkpq because we cant activate the sigils[/quote]
yeah, I hope they change that some time soon...
[quote=Jinhee]Yep. They get a few new passives, and major damage changes to the old skills.
1st job new skill
Side Step: increase dodge rate
Sharp Slash: something like BF
Flash jump: range increased
double stab removed
nimble body removed
1.5 job
Self haste: Master level changed to 10 moved to 1.5 job
Tornado Spin: moved to 1,5 job, master level decreased to 15 damage increased
Triple stab: removed
2nd job skill change
dual booster: moved to 2nd job skill, mastery decreased to 10
Fatal blow: moved to 2nd job skill, damage increased
Slash storm: moved to 2nd job, hits 3 times
2.5 job
Flying Assaulter: moved to 2.5 job; Damage, times hit, stun ratio increased
Upper Stab: Damage, AOE range increased.
Flash Bang: darkness chance increased
3rd job skills
Shadow Evasion: New passive skill: +?% dodge chance, on successful dodge gives 1 second increase of att and 100% crit chance.
Advanced Dark sight: damage in dark sight increased
Vital Steal: the Stolen amount increased
Bloody Storm: Damage and hit time increased, passive increase of FA and TS damage on skill level increase
Mirror Image: mastery level decreased to 20, buff duration increased
Chains of Hell: Damage increased, Dark Sight no longer needed to activate, Stun chance added
4th job
Fatal Venom: new passive skill with stackable poison
Dual Expertise: Increase of Dual weapon mastery(min-max range decrease), Attack, Accuracy, dodge chance
Sharpness: minimum Critical damage increased
Final Cut: less hp cost, 1 sec of damage immunity after use
Blade Fury: Aoe Range increased, hit time increased, Damage increased, PDR added
Dummy Effect: dummy hp increased, the dummy now absorbs damage taken by you
Phanthom Blow: Damage Increased, PDR increased.[/quote]
Can i have a source for the patch notes would love to submerse myself into translating it.
@Above: Eh 10k's isn't something to brag even with ishtar
We're worthless in Cwkpq because we cant activate the sigils
Yep, a major DB class buff. x3
Thats awesome
Yep. They get a few new passives, and major damage changes to the old skills.
1st job new skill
Side Step: increase dodge rate
Sharp Slash: something like BF
Flash jump: range increased
double stab removed
nimble body removed
1.5 job
Self haste: Master level changed to 10 moved to 1.5 job
Tornado Spin: moved to 1,5 job, master level decreased to 15 damage increased
Triple stab: removed
2nd job skill change
dual booster: moved to 2nd job skill, mastery decreased to 10
Fatal blow: moved to 2nd job skill, damage increased
Slash storm: moved to 2nd job, hits 3 times
2.5 job
Flying Assaulter: moved to 2.5 job; Damage, times hit, stun ratio increased
Upper Stab: Damage, AOE range increased.
Flash Bang: darkness chance increased
3rd job skills
Shadow Evasion: New passive skill: +?% dodge chance, on successful dodge gives 1 second increase of att and 100% crit chance.
Advanced Dark sight: damage in dark sight increased
Vital Steal: the Stolen amount increased
Bloody Storm: Damage and hit time increased, passive increase of FA and TS damage on skill level increase
Mirror Image: mastery level decreased to 20, buff duration increased
Chains of Hell: Damage increased, Dark Sight no longer needed to activate, Stun chance added
4th job
Fatal Venom: new passive skill with stackable poison
Dual Expertise: Increase of Dual weapon mastery(min-max range decrease), Attack, Accuracy, dodge chance
Sharpness: minimum Critical damage increased
Final Cut: less hp cost, 1 sec of damage immunity after use
Blade Fury: Aoe Range increased, hit time increased, Damage increased, PDR added
Dummy Effect: dummy hp increased, the dummy now absorbs damage taken by you
Phanthom Blow: Damage Increased, PDR increased.
@Jinhee ... Oh yeah... I forgot it. Do they get any new skills? (:
I would post it but they disabled new thread creation on basil... =.=
[quote=Jinhee]This has changed as of today. A massive db revamp going on in KMST right now, and looking at the patchnotes, they're buffed alot.[/quote]
Yeah, I saw it at the KMST site... what are the changes, I can't seem to find it.
This has changed as of today. A massive db revamp going on in KMST right now, and looking at the patchnotes, they're buffed alot.
..... eh i don't worry about any of those problems once i got my auto hp. Works perfectly all the time. Getting perm mp pouch soon so i can just focus on killing :] Honestly its all about control and even when i didn't have auto hp i didnt need to worry as much.
Umm.. Didnt notice anything about DB's being worthless specifically in late game..
If you're talking early and mid game as well then possibly.
[quote=xRagequitX]What happens when Czak or one of the other big bosses uses seduce + 1/1 combo?[/quote]
Power potions on the auto HP for my pet and Hero's Will. I have good enough reaction time to not die.
it's probably just because there are a few classes stronger than you for now.
I love my DB, and even though I quit before it was nerfed and came back after it was nerfed and everyone told me not to fund my DB because they got really weak compared to when I used to play.... I still went and funded my DB and I love it!
Might be weak compared to other classes with my funding, but I still love my damage
I love my DB. I made it when I rejoined maple about a year ago and I have no real complaints. Decent HB helps for the low HP and I have a pet with auto heal so I dont even watch my HP.
LOL! A db complaining about being weak!
OT: play a NL then come back.
[quote=ibrahim65432]For all who says I got only 5.1k hp or something just shut up. You guys do know Dual Blades are close combat fighters. For a close combat fighter its little even a mage has higher hp (Battle Mage) then DualBlade and has a greater risk of taking a damage then whose far combat. I do agree Dualblade does have a low hp but I don't agree in fact Dualblade has low defense. Perhaps you just got no skills And whoever disagrees with me, I challenge for debate if I am still online.[/quote]
We obviously know that db are close combat fighters because we play them. No skills =/= low defense if that's ur trying to say since the amount of defense u have is based on your equips and mirror target lvl.
For all who says I got only 5.1k hp or something just shut up. You guys do know Dual Blades are close combat fighters. For a close combat fighter its little even a mage has higher hp (Battle Mage) then DualBlade and has a greater risk of taking a damage then whose far combat. I do agree Dualblade does have a low hp but I don't agree in fact Dualblade has low defense. Perhaps you just got no skills And whoever disagrees with me, I challenge for debate if I am still online.
Dude its called auto pot. Or get an htp with 460 def. ot satisfied? Max out mirror target for 60% more def.
To be honest, i think that's kinda the point of making DB's "weak" since you guys do multiple damage very fast compared to other classes which may hit higher damage but they are slower when they attack
[quote=groceryshop]Plus, they can't activate sigils in cwkpq.
I don't really think its fair, cause they have to purchase their mastery books with NX, yet they are still so weak.
I CALL FOR A REVAMP! D:<[/quote]
Dont like DB? Change classes, nexon is not going to fix everything about db because you want it.
Dual bladers and mercedes are horrible without fundings... but if well funded they are the best DPM of the game....
And before ppl start QQing Im a shadower, my original main is a Dual Blader Called BloodlyDay... My db with 20b funds did quite a good damage... stupidly more than my shadower with same funds...
And I don't play it anymore because it's been missbanned @ Skeleton Minidungeon when Hack shield was glitched F3, then i wanted to transfer world and I couldn't transfer it ...
I made the math and even with the revamp my dual blader would deal more damage than a shadower post justice...
Dual blader = super damage with super fundings
Shadowers are a tank class... so they have more damage with less fundings but as a end game damage class dual bladers are better...
About the Hp... all u need is 2 wash... my db has 8.3k hp NAKED... with eqps 10.something...
The majority of our defence and avoidability come from Mirrored target which increases our magic and physical defence by 60% and increases our avoid by 25%. This is usually maxed really late game like 18x or 19x. Kind of sucks to get it so late game =/
Completely agree with you, I thought I was the only one Damage isn't that great, and if you're unfunded, you have to freakin hunt for your katara / dagger... It was fun at first, but they got really nerfed so they aren't even worth it anymore...
[quote=DeniseWong]Dual Blades are definitely NOT worthless. I don't have the most % LUK on my Dual Blade, but I boss with my friend who is a 193 DK with adequate % STR, and I happen to do more damage than him because of Final Cut.
Also, dual blades have one of the fastest attack speeds, so you do a lot more damage per second compared to other skills that other jobs have (besides hurricane and rapid fire).
Dual Blades are fast and balanced. They happen to have more HP than a Night Lord, and if HP is really a problem, then you can buy a pet with auto HP with maple points. It doesn't really cost that much [/quote]
The problem I see there is your comparing it to a drk. There at the bottom with us
I love my main, which is a DB... Even though we have gotten nerfed, idc, I love this class and going to keep playing it... err.. idling with it, as I'm already lv 200 F7
^This. I usually end up doing the most damage out of people on my runs and usually the one that pin the bosses for everyone else.
I usually find myself doing the most damage on boss runs.
Dual Blades are definitely NOT worthless. I don't have the most % LUK on my Dual Blade, but I boss with my friend who is a 193 DK with adequate % STR, and I happen to do more damage than him because of Final Cut.
Also, dual blades have one of the fastest attack speeds, so you do a lot more damage per second compared to other skills that other jobs have (besides hurricane and rapid fire).
Dual Blades are fast and balanced. They happen to have more HP than a Night Lord, and if HP is really a problem, then you can buy a pet with auto HP with maple points. It doesn't really cost that much
Mate, I have 6.xk hp at level 124 (with hb, 8.xk)
just craft it you're unfunded I play like an hour a few days a week and started in august
get basic luck equips etc
my range is 13.5k clean with a clean pescas(no level) since I blew up a 15x one
alright I'm a 158 DB running on my own personal Bossing Build my current HP is over 8k, no HB equips, and my range is 15k-22k. I only run on 200 mil at most sometimes selling 10 att WGs every so often. I'm barely funding my self and my NL and my Shade with 200 mil I bought all my books from FM excluding Fly Assaulter (never found in FM till i wasted Nx.) and Thorns (wasted over 300 mil on books to fail so bought from CS). No excuse to complain bout DB's.
If you can at least solo Zakum your good and potion wise stock up 300-400 Ginger Ales and buy a pet with auto HP helps save your life
[quote=ghostme]we did.
Dbs basically got all the thief essentials.[/quote]
Well, they don't have a 4th job Mastery.
[quote=aimory1]Do we even get physical training[/quote]
we did.
Dbs basically got all the thief essentials.
Do we even get physical training
@above During Chaos, people claimed they didn't have to buy mastery books for evan and that their skills were already at level20 mastery on advancement ^
pretty sure it wasn't intended by Nexon though.
[quote=groceryshop]Plus, they can't activate sigils in cwkpq.
I don't really think its fair, cause they have to purchase their mastery books with NX, yet they are still so weak.
I CALL FOR A REVAMP! D:<[/quote]
but you dont HAVE to buy them to survive. evans buy skill books becuase we NEED them or everything will 1hitko us(magic guard)
[quote=Lejendus]What about pre-MMB? Back then, I HAD to spend NX on mastery books because there simply was no other way. I had to spend around 35k NX on my books. 35k NX now is worth like 1.6b at Windia's rate of 1:45. I'd have rather spent 200m on books and kept 1.4b for equips. On top of that, we need books from lvl55 onwards, unlike every other class who need them at 120+. DBs are, as someone else pointed out, a fundamentally offensive class. I can live with our low defense if we had decent damage output, but after the Mirror Image "fix"/nerf, we don't even have that anymore. I've seen DBs with 120% luk outdamaged by Mercedes players with much, much lower funding.
I agree that NLs need a revamp BADLY, but Shads are just fine; they're meant to be the defensive thief class, and they are, only with decent damage output too. Plus, we already know they have a revamp coming. Justice is just around the corner. But the so called "Thief" revamp overlooked DBs almost entirely. We still have no word on a revamp coming, and frankly, we do need it.[/quote]
^^ I agree with you.
[quote=AckarRed]Meanwhile, Night Lords and Shadowers have been sitting in the bleachers while their dual bladed counterparts have been receiving their shares of revamps. Don't use that pitiful "NX for Mastery" excuse, it has no factor in your skills and you can get your books by MMB just like the other thieves.[/quote]
What about pre-MMB? Back then, I HAD to spend NX on mastery books because there simply was no other way. I had to spend around 35k NX on my books. 35k NX now is worth like 1.6b at Windia's rate of 1:45. I'd have rather spent 200m on books and kept 1.4b for equips. On top of that, we need books from lvl55 onwards, unlike every other class who need them at 120+. DBs are, as someone else pointed out, a fundamentally offensive class. I can live with our low defense if we had decent damage output, but after the Mirror Image "fix"/nerf, we don't even have that anymore. I've seen DBs with 120% luk outdamaged by Mercedes players with much, much lower funding.
I agree that NLs need a revamp BADLY, but Shads are just fine; they're meant to be the defensive thief class, and they are, only with decent damage output too. Plus, we already know they have a revamp coming. Justice is just around the corner. But the so called "Thief" revamp overlooked DBs almost entirely. We still have no word on a revamp coming, and frankly, we do need it.
Get health boost potions
They're way cheaper to make and acquire than HB pants.
But it wouldn't hurt to add a few more hp skills. Radical Darkness has been added but really, the hp boost is the same as Shadow Resistance.
[quote=AckarRed]Meanwhile, Night Lords and Shadowers have been sitting in the bleachers while their dual bladed counterparts have been receiving their shares of revamps. Don't use that pitiful "NX for Mastery" excuse, it has no factor in your skills and you can get your books by MMB just like the other thieves.[/quote]
That's not related to the thread. We all know theives and pirates had waited for their revamp for a long time and they sure got one. Probably the best revamp that will ever happen. The only real revamp I see dbs got is in chaos. If you want to talk about shares of revamps go to an aran or evan thead. Buff in chaos, legends, and union.
I'm glad everyone here is educated and not any of those people that still think db are op.
[quote=Viener]Although not the best, it's definately not the worst. I used to have around that range before I started upgrading, and even then I got into parties just fine. Try going with friends/guildies?[/quote]
It's mainly cuz most of my gear is clean (other than potential->31%luk) and I don't have Evo Ring lvl 17 I or II. Don't have FC either
They're always full or bossing or already level 200.