General

I don't think it is stupid if the said person had a disorder that causes them to do irrational decision.

@SaneleeBoring lol what? Where did I say that? You said that it was stupid to throw away things we get for free, and I simply pointed out that we throw away things we get for free all the time. That's it. No need to put words in my mouth in order to refute something that isn't there, that's called a straw-man argument.

[quote=SaneleeBoring]@Sezbeth: Yes because using useless scientific jargon to sound smart and inflate your flat argument (hurr durr chemical imbalance in the brain hurr) to a forum full of teenagers isn't your fault.

Oh I'm sorry I thought we started attacking the person instead of the argument.[/quote]

Chemical imbalances as opposed to neurochemical deficiency? Yet, you're considering the former to be jargon. Believe me, the terminology I'm using right now is as simple as it gets when talking about this sort of thing.

It may be a forum where the majority are teenagers, however, as evident by the amount of people disagreeing with you, the argument is hardly empty. That said, if you're going to make assertions about something like this, then you'd better be ready to back it up. If you fail to do so on any level, then evidently you knew less than you thought you did about it. Just because you fail to understand the bare basic concepts, doesn't make them any less of a fact.

Also, it's hardly an attack so much as an observation. Granted, the bluntness in which it was presented does give a bit of a bitter taste to it, however the point still remains the same. If I wanted to "attack" you, I could've done so at many different corners throughout this thread in a cruder manner. Though, it's odd that you're pointing out personal attacks while calling people with psychological disabilities "stupid".

@Sezbeth: Yes because using useless scientific jargon to sound smart and inflate your flat argument (hurr durr chemical imbalance in the brain hurr) to a forum full of teenagers isn't your fault.

Oh I'm sorry I thought we started attacking the person instead of the argument.

[quote=SaneleeBoring]@Sezbeth: So terms with a clear definition are open-ended now huh?

Aaaand we've literally figuratively just went in a full circle. Nice.[/quote]

You're really the only one who's gone in the full circle, largely due to your inability to understand anything abstract.

I can't really be angry at that, though. It's likely not at the fault of your own.

@Sezbeth: So terms with a clear definition are open-ended now huh?

Aaaand we've literally figuratively just went in a full circle. Nice.

@TrueAtheist: I guess your free life is about as worthless as a free McDonald coupon. Great analogy.

[quote=SaneleeBoring]I've contemplated it, trust me. But then I realized how stupid it was to throw away something you literally got for free.[/quote]

I get McDonald's coupons for free all the time in the mail and I throw them away.

@LiliKoby Robin Williams is a good example of that.

[quote=SaneleeBoring]@Sezbeth: Analogy: a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based.
>COMPARISON
>LITERALLY
>It's just as illogical as expecting a child to act like an adult

You know what, point is, you keep saying it isn't that simple yet you boiled it down to simply saying depressed people can't find help for themselves using the children analogy.
Not every depressed person will seek out help THAT IS LITERALLY FIGURATIVELY IN THEIR FACE but some of them will and it's to those guys that are worth helping. Not those stupid smhucks who ignore help THAT IS LITERALLY FIGURATIVELY IN THEIR FACE and choose to kill themselves anyways.[/quote]

You have an odd adherence to open-ended terms automatically equating concrete meaning. Not a good habit, especially if you intend on continuing into post-high school education.

That said; I said that cognitive disorders, such as depression, have a tendency to inhibit an individual's ability to make logically sound decisions. The presence of cognitive disorders are largely due to chemical and/or structural imbalances within the physical brain as an organ, much like a dysfunction in another organ causing a physical ailment (which does include those "stupid smhucks" ).

The issue with this interpretation on any level is the social stigma it derives itself from. This, however, is to be expected from the general public since behavior is a direct result of one's neurological functions, thus having a direct line to being often misinterpreted in a variety of ways, often specified by specific cultural biases (much like what you're doing right now). This particular cultural bias being the idea of "free will", which becomes less apparent when one educates themselves about genetics, neuroscience, and many other fields which relate to the overall formation of behavior (though, that's an entirely different discussion for another day).

Also, "literally figuratively" in this context is an oxymoron. This has nothing to do with the discussion, but that sort of thing tends to bug me.

@saneleeboring bad analogy or not that was its purpose, so can we move on from that already?
plus, he stated very clearly what he was illustrating with that analogy. "I'm simply making note that disorderly cognition has a tendency to inhibit logical judgement and decision making." There, clear as day. that means that if you're depressed it affects your decision making negatively. i'm not sure you're quite comprehending what he's saying, he's said lots of things that make lots of sense but all you do is misrepresent his position and parody his words ):

why are they stupid if they think they're worthless?

also, life isn't "precious." life has no inherent value, there is no such thing as "the sanctity of life." a life is worth as much as the value that one assigns to it (clearly you hold life in high esteem, and that's good, but people who dont arent incorrect), and when you're depressed, your life isn't worth as much to you anymore.

@Xreniya: The child thinks differently because it doesn't know any better, it lack experience, knowledge therefore ignorant but not stupid. So really horrible analogy.

Stupid is KNOWING something is bad yet you still choose to do it. Much like a depressed person aware of help yet chooses to ignore it for whatever reason.

"maybe a depressed person thinks they're worthless and aren't worth the help"
Sure yeah, they're also stupid.

[quote=SaneleeBoring]@Sezbeth: Analogy: a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based.
>COMPARISON
>LITERALLY
>It's just as illogical as expecting a child to act like an adult

You know what, point is, you keep saying it isn't that simple yet you boiled it down to simply saying depressed people can't find help for themselves using the children analogy.
Not every depressed person will seek out help THAT IS LITERALLY FIGURATIVELY IN THEIR FACE but some of them will and it's to those guys that are worth helping. Not those stupid smhucks who ignore help THAT IS LITERALLY FIGURATIVELY IN THEIR FACE and choose to kill themselves anyways.[/quote]

the point isn't that a child is any lesser or dumber than an adult (the child probably is, but that isn't the point of the analogy i don't think). the important thing, i think, is that children think DIFFERENTLY than adults

like
maybe a depressed person thinks they're worthless and aren't worth the help
are you expecting them to go "i dont deserve help i should get help for that"

You can't possibly understand people who are depressed and do things like commit suicide because they are literally in a different state of mind than you are. It's a psychological condition, there is something actually wrong within the brain that causes them to think in that manner. Unless you have firsthand experience with depression or are an open-minded, tolerant person who educated yourself on the topic; you are in no position to judge them.

I will admit there are a lot more people out there now *cough* tumblr *cough* that think they really have it rough and act all melodramatic about it; which is why people don't take depression as seriously because they think it's just somebody looking for attention or trying to seem edgy and deep.

It's really quite a shame, and it makes people who are actually depressed even less likely to seek help than they already are because they're afraid they won't be taken seriously by people like you: the ignorant, the judgmental, and narrow-minded. People like you and my parents make it seem like depression is something to be ashamed of, and people who are depressed are to be looked down upon as weak-willed and even lazy.

It's not that they don't want help, they're too ashamed or afraid to ask for help; ashamed of being depressed in the first place (as if it were their fault), afraid of being ridiculed by people like you. In their distorted state of mind, victims of depression [b]can't see[/b] the logic and reasoning behind seeking help as we do; which is why it's such a big issue. How can you help someone who doesn't want help? How can you tell those who need help from those who don't (many people deep in depression show almost no signs in public or even in close circles)?

You can't use a rational train of thought to try and explain why it's illogical for depressed [b](AKA irrational)[/b] people to not seek help.
It's because they're irrational they don't seek help. If you can't accept the basic fact that victims of depression are not in a normal state of mind, you have no business trying to explain their actions.

@Sezbeth: Analogy: a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based.
>COMPARISON
>LITERALLY
>It's just as illogical as expecting a child to act like an adult

You know what, point is, you keep saying it isn't that simple yet you boiled it down to simply saying depressed people can't find help for themselves using the children analogy.
Not every depressed person will seek out help THAT IS LITERALLY FIGURATIVELY IN THEIR FACE but some of them will and it's to those guys that are worth helping. Not those stupid smhucks who ignore help THAT IS LITERALLY FIGURATIVELY IN THEIR FACE and choose to kill themselves anyways.

[quote=SaneleeBoring]@Sezbeth: Literally compared =/= Depression literally makes you think like a child

bruh[/quote]

Analogies serve to compare the situational context rather than the individual sentiments.

You learn this in high school.

@Xreniya : I can understand the confusion, however the individual sentiments within the analogy really has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Instead of focusing on something which contributes nothing to the discussion, I'd rather focus the attention to the one-dimensional viewpoint being portrayed within the thread.

[quote=Sezbeth]Literally? It was an analogy to depict the same logical discourse between the two scenarios.

I may be the one here on the autism spectrum, but it seems you need a crash course on figurative language.[/quote]

i understand that was only an analogy but to be fair that was a strange analogy to use
i got the point but you cant really blame sanelee for misunderstanding tbh

@Sezbeth: Literally compared =/= Depression literally makes you think like a child

bruh

[quote=SaneleeBoring]@Sezbeth: Dude those were your words. You literally compared a depressed person to a child.[/quote]

Literally? It was an analogy to depict the same logical discourse between the two scenarios.

I may be the one here on the autism spectrum, but it seems you need a crash course on figurative language.

@Sezbeth: Dude those were your words. You literally compared a depressed person to a child.

I agree, it's extremely pathetic

I think the people who commit suicide are the opposite of stupid. Have you ever wondered where the saying, "Ignorance is bliss" comes from? I would argue that most people who commit suicide have relatively high intelligence.

People who kill themselves do lack perspective, or have a warped perspective. This can be due to societal influences (a reason why suicide is prominent in 1st world countries but not in developing countries is that people are entitled to so much and take everything for granted, even life) or mental illness (Depression, stress, and anxiety can stop people from thinking clearly, and thus value their lives less).

@SaneleeBoring: You would change your perspective if you personally knew people who have committed or attempted suicide. Many of these people are bright, intelligent, and outgoing people; you would never suspect them to be someone who would consider suicide. All suicide takes is one moment of poor judgment, from built up negativity.

[quote=SaneleeBoring]@Sezbeth: So depression completely negates someone from asking help. Because they become stupid children incapable of making decisions for themselves. Gotcha.[/quote]

Again, you're operating within the realm of black and whites. Nothing is ever as concrete as black or white. I use "tendency" for this particular reason. Operating within absolutes is a poor way to approach anything one has limited knowledge about.

You seem to have an overall, tenuous grasp of what psychological disorders actually are. The fact that you show little awareness of specific distinctions makes this evident.

@Sezbeth: So depression completely negates someone from asking help. Because they become stupid children incapable of making decisions for themselves. Gotcha.

lol have you ever lived in a 3rd world country

OP is such an idiot. No wonder why some people commit suicide. So no one has to be around people like you.

[quote=SaneleeBoring]@Sezbeth: Oh ok so it's bad to encourage people to ask for help. Gotcha.

And how would one even be unaware of help? Where I live there are literally ads for anonymous suicide help hotlines where one could easily call and ask a professional for help.[/quote]

How did you get that? I'm not discouraging attempting to assist people, I'm simply making note that disorderly cognition has a tendency to inhibit logical judgement and decision making. It's just as illogical as expecting a child to act like an adult, largely due on part to their neurological structure literally being incapable of this past a certain expressive threshold.

Just because you "don't see" how someone could follow a certain thought pattern, doesn't mean there isn't a tangible reason behind it. Several fields focus on the scientific study of this phenomena; one of which, happens to be my graduate study concentration.

@Sezbeth: Oh ok so it's bad to encourage people to ask for help. Gotcha.

And how would one even be unaware of help? Where I live there are literally ads for anonymous suicide help hotlines where one could easily call and ask a professional for help.

I think people who think people who kill themselves are stupid are the stupid ones. You're clearly looking at this way too shallowly, from the point of view of a 'healthy mind'.

Self-induced death is NOT natural. It's natural to strive to survive and reproduce. Anything against that is not 'natural' anymore. People who kill themselves clearly have something going against their nature. In most cases it's depression, sometimes it's pressure/stress or physical pain, yadda yadda.

Stupidity does not drive people to kill themselves. Stupidity isn't 'strong' enough for that. The worst stupidity does is cause ACCIDENTS that kill you or others. Let's see you wanting to stay alive when you're physically and/or emotionally crippled by a variety of circumstances. There's people who are depressed due to a hormonal imbalance in their body. That is not something they can control, at all.

People don't kill themselves during clear moments in their lives, they don't do it on a clean and sane/healthy mind. They do it in moments where the emotional/mental/physical pressure is so strong that it drives them to the exact opposite they're naturally meant to do. That's not stupid, it's just very unfortunate.

The real stupidity lies within people like you who talk/look down onto those that do suffer, belittling their pain, making them feel even more 'stupid', 'worthless' and [enter any negative adjective] than they already do. You contribue to the issue, you're part of the issue. It's ignorance and stupidity that, aside from their personal basic issues, drives people to suicide.

Please do not talk about something you clearly don't understand or know anything of.

Also, the whole 'I was depressed and got over it' crud is stupid as well. 'Depression' can have several causes. Say, a depression caused by the loss of a loved one is different from a depression caused by a hormonal issue in your brain or body. Some depressions are temporary or seasonal, some are permanent (and some even are treatment-resistant!). Just because you've felt 'depressed' in the past doesn't mean you have a whole understanding of it.

@RitoPls: If you think about it people who commit suicide are actually much stronger than those who keep on living. Living is rather easy, it physically takes hardly any effort. You naturally do it, it's not a conscious decision. People that kill themselves go AGAINST THEIR NATURAL INSTINCT.
Then again it isn't them who does it, it's whatever negative force that overpowers their survival instinct. That doesn't make them any less of a human being. Doesn't make them any weaker than you are. Depression can hit ANYONE, nobody is immune to it. You can be perfectly healthy in every way today and you could be a wreck tomorrow. You could get physically hurt or you could suffer the loss of your safety of life/mind etcetc. You could get sick in the future and it could entirely throw off your system, driving you into spiraling, self-perpetuating negative thoughts and you would have no control or say in it whatsoever.

[quote=SaneleeBoring]I'm not saying it's stupid to have suicidal thoughts , I'm saying it's stupid to act on it. As you said that since neurological disorders like depression are relatively understood, there should be tons of resources to help a person suffering extreme cases of depression.[/quote]

Don't cherry-pick with me.

The danger behind psychological disorders is when environmental conditions interact with them, which subsequently causes the disorderly expression of the cognition. Yes, there are resources to help people, however, it's still disingenuous to judge one for not utilizing them, especially considering how the severity of a given disorder often affects the likelihood of the individual afflicted with such will even consider those tools, let alone even be aware of their existence in the first place. That's part of the disorderly cognition and behavior behind these conditions and why they're significantly more dangerous than what the public tends to realize.

The weight of a person's life is completely subjective, because it matters most to its owner and the emotions beholden to that life.

Varying levels of mere stupidity is a completely different metric.

[quote=Sezbeth]Hardly the case. While social media trends to tend to be inflated to the point of being cringeworthy, it still serves to maintain that it's an actual thing. However, to blatantly state in absolutes that one is "stupid" by way of social stigma more than anything else just signifies a literal void of any knowledge addressing the actual nature of the disorder down to a neurological level. It's never as black and white as someone simply being "stupid". Anyone with a formal education in psychology past the crash course that is high school knows this; and anyone who has such, but still maintains this stance is being intellectually dishonest.[/quote]

I'm not saying it's stupid to have suicidal thoughts , I'm saying it's stupid to act on it. As you said that since neurological disorders like depression are relatively understood, there should be tons of resources to help a person suffering extreme cases of depression.

[quote=SaneleeBoring]What? If anything suicide is glorified by the media. Any dumb broad who kills herself and you get the mainstream media trying to bandwagon on the sympathy.[/quote]

Hardly the case. While social media trends to tend to be inflated to the point of being cringeworthy, it still serves to maintain that it's an actual thing. However, to blatantly state in absolutes that one is "stupid" by way of social stigma more than anything else just signifies a literal void of any knowledge addressing the actual nature of the disorder down to a neurological level. It's never as black and white as someone simply being "stupid". Anyone with a formal education in psychology past the crash course that is high school knows this; and anyone who has such, but still maintains this stance is being intellectually dishonest.

[quote=Sezbeth]Again, another thread blatantly ignorant of genetic neurological behavior displacements and the like.

The notion in which one believes those with such displacements are "stupid" is merely derived from social stigma, which is a result of a long time misinformation by entertainment media.[/quote]

What? If anything suicide is glorified by the media. Find a dumb broad who kills herself and you get the mainstream media trying to bandwagon on the sympathy.

[quote=Zoneflare4]An uneducated opinion about depression brought to you by the chat section of basil market.[/quote]

hay zoneflare

I used to think the same way until I suffered depression a while back. It's hard to explain unless you've gone through it yourself. For me, I had no joy doing the things that used to bring me joy. I kept thinking the same thoughts over and over again: What if my mom dies, we're all going to die so what's the point of living, nothing makes me happy, what am I doing with life,etc. Now at this point I didn't even have anyone bullying me or any family/economic struggles. My grades were fine and I got accepted into college. To this day I still don't know why my brain suddenly turned like that. Personally, I wouldn't enjoy or feel my life would be worth living if everyday was lethargic and depressing. I seriously felt like I was going mad. Thankfully, I asked for help and after a while, it got better. Good thing it wasn't chronic and just a mild case. Anyways, the point is, I don't think you can speak for those with suicidal thoughts unless you've actually gone through it before. And if you have, you would know it's not "stupid".

Now suicide is another topic. I don't think it's right for someone to take their own life without seeking help first. If they seek help and it does not do anything, then euthanasia could be considered. It's wrong to suicide without trying to improve and will just cause a great deal of strife to family and friends.

Edit: I read through comments and saw that you said you contemplated it a while back. Not everyone has the same degree of emotional pain. Some are more adapted to bounce back more easily than others, or in your case, reflect upon yourself through a bigger picture. Others have it so serious that it is classified as a mental disorder. These people have these thoughts constantly for whatever reason and everyone also has different circumstances. So just because you got over it, doesn't mean everyone can do so that quickly. Sometimes it's just not curable and help just cannot be brought to these individuals. While you are entitled to your own opinion, try to open your mind as to see it from other angles, not just yours.

An uneducated opinion about depression brought to you by the chat section of basil market.

Again, another thread blatantly ignorant of genetic neurological behavior displacements and the like.

The notion in which one believes those with such displacements are "stupid" is merely derived from social stigma, which is a result of a long time misinformation by entertainment media.

You guys haven't experienced it. Till then, don't judge us for what we do, think and write.

@SaneleeBoring: "Something you got for free".If that's honestly what you think of your life in that situation.There are many more things to it than that.

what a solid thread. mentally ill people are stupid. yep. that's how it is.

do you consider people with diabetes or cancer stupid too?

[quote=SaneleeBoring]I do understand how it feels since I was in the same position a couple years back. But then I realized how lucky I was to be even born in the first place. There were probably kids in my age at the time that would kill to be in my position (living in a 1st world country with free education) but there I was ready to give up because I was in emotional pain.[/quote]

I'm glad that you got over it and congratulate you, but not everyone can look at the bigger picture like that.
You're obviously a strong person who was able to overcome depression, but unfortunately not everyone can do the same.

[quote=BrandonIsBack]I used to think it was stupid.
But when you think about it, how is life precious if it causes constant emotional pain and mental fatigue? If your mind is too clouded with suicidal thoughts and you're too depressed to function, what other option do some people see?
I'm not saying it's the right thing, I'm saying you don't understand how they feel.
This is the same argument people used to use against me and I'd get mad, but it's the truth.[/quote]

I do understand how it feels since I was in the same position a couple years back. But then I realized how lucky I was to be even born in the first place. There were probably kids in my age at the time that would kill to be in my position (living in a 1st world country with free education) but there I was ready to give up because I was in emotional pain.

interesting(and very unfortunate) that they're so afraid of bullies and such, yet brave enough to commit suicide.

Word.

Suicidal people are the weakest people imaginable.

No such thing as a life that's better than yours.

-Cole

[quote=Slayinz]This is dumb.
Probably even dumber to wish,but I hope you hit a point in your life where you contemplate it.
I know it's crossed my mind numerous times,I may or may not act upon it someday.
Life is just too much sometimes,I don't believe that because someone acts upon it that you have the right to judge.It is their life you know?[/quote]

I've contemplated it, trust me. But then I realized how stupid it was to throw away something you literally got for free.

[quote=HolyDragon]I'd kill myself if I became homeless with no prospects for a future.
I always question why the homeless don't do the same.[/quote]

Will to live and hope for the future is probably why they don't.
These are the same things most depressed people lack, so it makes sense.

This is dumb.
Probably even dumber to wish,but I hope you hit a point in your life where you contemplate it.
I know it's crossed my mind numerous times,I may or may not act upon it someday.
Life is just too much sometimes,I don't believe that because someone acts upon it that you have the right to judge.It is their life you know?

I'd kill myself if I became homeless with no prospects for a future.
I always question why the homeless don't do the same.

You're stupid for having such a close minded opinion.

Unless you're into being ignorant, why would you just make assumptions all willy nilly cause you don't understand?

In my opinion.

I used to think it was stupid.
But when you think about it, how is life precious if it causes constant emotional pain and mental fatigue? If your mind is too clouded with suicidal thoughts and you're too depressed to function, what other option do some people see?
I'm not saying it's the right thing, I'm saying you don't understand how they feel.
This is the same argument people used to use against me and I'd get mad, but it's the truth.