General

[quote=shyally]I don't really think anyone got screwed over. As already pointed out, you should have sufficient MaplePoints to get the pet skills for free.

The only people who got 'screwed over' are people with special permanent pet equips (NOT meso magnent and item pouch) and a ton of pets. As far as I'm aware, there was only ever permanent Item Ignore Pendant and Auto Buff Gem.

Considering those skills cost 1k and 3.5k NX per pet, this new system seems to be much cheaper overall when you consider that you can get permanent versions of EVERY pet equip. No more tri-monthly pet fees except for Water of Life.

On top of that, Nexon has frequent Permanent Pet sales. If you get one of those, then you can stop paying the water of life cost as well.[/quote]

I'm going to say this for the third time:

"That's all nice. If you told me the cost-benefit ratio of imposing this change is a good one and is for the greater good, I wouldn't dispute it. If you said it should've happened this way and was ultimately the better direction, that would be a discussion in which I wouldn't have involved myself.

I simply say the cost of that imposition screwed some people over, even though it helped many."

So yes, I know. People were screwed over by a forced change, I explained how, and it has nothing to do with what you wrote up here. You can get a net positive even with negative points being present. I just presented some negatives.

[quote=shyally]So, I'm really not seeing the issue.[/quote]

I'll quote what I wrote again:

"There was System A.

People understood the ramifications of System A which involved versatility of pet functionality and bought items XYZ as a result of it.

Changing to System B where the versatility is killed makes waste of XYZ if their purchases were contingent on that same versatility.

I'm not saying people have to continue buying pets after-the-fact, but there's a problem when change is imposed on things that have already been purchased.

In short: consenting to one system and making a personal purchase based off a contingency invites someone to be screwed over by a forced change that directly impacts that versatility."

The issue is forced change. All I did was shed light on one part people were neglecting. For some reason, people are misrepresenting my point completely.

[quote=shyally]What specifically did you lose? Do you have like 20 pets or something?[/quote]

Yeah, although I needn't have been affected by it for my point to still work. Which it does. People were screwed over, and I just explained how.

[quote=DogPukeYellow]You're looking at something that isn't there. It doesn't matter how few people were screwed over. I just said they were screwed over...[/quote]

I don't really think anyone got screwed over. As already pointed out, you should have sufficient MaplePoints to get the pet skills for free.

The only people who got 'screwed over' are people with special permanent pet equips (NOT meso magnent and item pouch) and a ton of pets. As far as I'm aware, there was only ever permanent Item Ignore Pendant and Auto Buff Gem.

Considering those skills cost 1k and 3.5k NX per pet, this new system seems to be much cheaper overall when you consider that you can get permanent versions of EVERY pet equip. No more tri-monthly pet fees except for Water of Life.

On top of that, Nexon has frequent Permanent Pet sales. If you get one of those, then you can stop paying the water of life cost as well.

So, I'm really not seeing the issue. What specifically did you lose? Do you have like 20 pets or something?

I don't really think you lost that much. Nexon sold your pet equip for maple point that you can purchase more pet skills with. I had some temporary pet equips that was going to expire in a week during that revamp, and nexon traded them into maplepoint so I was able to buy everything I wanted back + all perma. I actually had left over maplepoint lol
My friend who had permanent versions too had plenty of left over maple points. I mean you have to count the time that you were actually using your old pet equips too.

[quote=LittleTLK] Your argument is a not only a nitpick (few people had more than 1 pet with pet equips on them), but the way you think Neoxn needs our "consent" to change system mechanics is just flat wrong. You're looking to be morally outraged at something because your actual arguments are so weak.[/quote]

You're looking at something that isn't there. It doesn't matter how few people were screwed over. I just said they were screwed over.

Moreover, I said:

"That's all nice. If you told me the cost-benefit ratio of imposing this change is a good one and is for the greater good, I wouldn't dispute it. If you said it should've happened this way and was ultimately the better direction, that would be a discussion in which I wouldn't have involved myself.

I simply say the cost of that imposition screwed some people over, even though it helped many."

If I were looking to be morally outraged, I wouldn't have made that concession.

I never said Nexon needs anything from us either. I'm just saying there was a forced change and it screwed people over. Explaining how it was forced doesn't make me someone who's challenging its legal and/or ethical implications.

[quote=LittleTLK]Also, so you know, the way multiple pets function when they're out forces them to pick up mesos and items in a wider path, so even without auto moving skills or range increases, it's still an advantage over 1 pet.[/quote]

Doesn't affect my point one way or the other.

@scycron Addressing your issue, since the details mostly got pretty lost in the shouting, your old pet items were refunded in Maplepoints, allowing you to buy the new skills if you choose to.
The new pet skills are both CHEAPER than the old pet items, and PERMANENT. You can buy them if you decide to, or you can use the Maplepoints for something else if you don't need or want the pet skills.. In addition both the Meso Bag and Item Pouch functions are now FREE.

Nothing was removed, you can still get the SAME skills as the old items provided and they're cheaper. The new skills have different names than the old items had, but they provide the SAME functions.
Check the Cash Shop under Pet Skills and use your new Maplepoints balance to re-buy what you need.

[quote=Elufu]I feel your post (that I was tagged in) has no other purpose than to bait for 'discussion' but anyway...[/quote]

Huh?

[quote=Elufu]I used "only" in reference to multiple issues the OP is complaining about. He stated in a manner as if he had lost everything he had owned. That isn't the case and Nexon has provided options to meet whatever we had as much as possible. And to be fair the amount of MP refunded was more than enough to apply the necessary skills on multiple pets.[/quote]

If it's just addressing the OP, no problem. Don't mind me then.

[quote=Elufu]I was also one of those people who had lost several (and duplicate) permanent pet equipment. Yes I know the flexibility of pet equipments was priceless and yes ever since the switch to this new system it has deterred me from switching onto new pets. But it's far from other controversial decisions Nexon has made that we never 'bought in' or 'consented'.[/quote]

I'm not here to come to terms on how severe or not it is. Really, you be the judge. I'm just saying it screwed people over, I explained how, and you just agreed with me.

[quote=Elufu]It's not like after every NX purchase you're being issued a tax invoice or signing a contract. IF anything, the only contract that exists is the ToS that applies and binds us more than them.[/quote]

Legal domain doesn't have to overlap with ethics. You don't have to mention how worse off it could be; I get it. I'm just here to say the imposition screwed people over. And you agreed with me.

[quote=Elufu]It's no longer the good ol' days. Get over it. Life is full of inequalities and faeces worse than this.[/quote]

I don't have to repeat myself this time, right? I know. I'm just saying... you guessed it.

[quote=Elufu]PS I figure some other person has responded to you. (Permanent pets are still sold during sales as it has been done in the past)[/quote]

Yeah, as I thought - just wanted to make sure that's what he was saying. Thanks though.

[quote=Hermes]This is why Nexon is able to make so much money with the most bullcrap pay to win systems, they literally have fanboys all over defending them LMFAO[/quote]

the pet revamp is better than the old system why you trolling.

@DogPukeYellow: I feel your post (that I was tagged in) has no other purpose than to bait for 'discussion' but anyway...

I used "only" in reference to multiple issues the OP is complaining about. He stated in a manner as if he had lost everything he had owned. That isn't the case and Nexon has provided options to meet whatever we had as much as possible. And to be fair the amount of MP refunded was more than enough to apply the necessary skills on multiple pets.

I was also one of those people who had lost several (and duplicate) permanent pet equipment. Yes I know the flexibility of pet equipments was priceless and yes ever since the switch to this new system it has deterred me from switching onto new pets. But it's far from other controversial decisions Nexon has made that we never 'bought in' or 'consented'.

It's not like after every NX purchase you're being issued a tax invoice or signing a contract. IF anything, the only contract that exists is the ToS that applies and binds us more than them.

It's no longer the good ol' days. Get over it. Life is full of inequalities and faeces worse than this.

PS I figure some other person has responded to you. (Permanent pets are still sold during sales as it has been done in the past)

[quote=Hermes]This is why Nexon is able to make so much money with the most bullcrap pay to win systems, they literally have fanboys all over defending them LMFAO[/quote]

This is literally the dumbest thing I've read today.

The new pet skills are CHEAPER BY FAR than the 90 day ones AND they're permanent.
Plus, all pets come with item pouch + meso magnet functionality.

This revamp is not only not pay2win (as if pets give you some giant advantage anyway), but it's actually Neoxn making things easier and cheaper for us.

@DogPukeYellow:
Your argument is a not only a nitpick (few people had more than 1 pet with pet equips on them), but the way you think Neoxn needs our "consent" to change system mechanics is just flat wrong. You're looking to be morally outraged at something because your actual arguments are so weak.

Also, so you know, the way multiple pets function when they're out forces them to pick up mesos and items in a wider path, so even without auto moving skills or range increases, it's still an advantage over 1 pet.

[quote=SilverFoxR]One, the TC was talking directly about the pet item skills... and since all pets, permanent or otherwise recieved this ability by default, nobody got "screwed over", especially since everyone who had the temporary items at the time were refunded with NX able to allow them to buy other things.[/quote]

1. I was speaking to a larger point. If it's just the OP we're talking about, no problem.

1a. He mentioned permanent HP and MP. I don't know his personal situation, but depending on the number of pets he had, HP and MP wouldn't be applied to them all. But again, I was speaking to a larger point, so it doesn't need to involve him.

[quote=SilverFoxR]And yes, they completely changed the system. They made permanent pets a one-time purchase instead of having to re-purchase the same items over and over. [/quote]

Are you talking about needing Waters of Life? They sold permanent pets before the revamp. Might be misinterpreting though.

[quote=SilverFoxR]Sure, you can buy multiple pets, but none of them need all the skills. Give one the important skills you want and leave the others at default.[/quote]

Here's where the problem lies:

There was System A.

People understood the ramifications of System A which involved versatility of pet functionality and bought items XYZ as a result of it.

Changing to System B where the versatility is killed makes waste of XYZ if their purchases were contingent on that same versatility.

I'm not saying people have to continue buying pets after-the-fact, but there's a problem when change is imposed on things that have already been purchased.

In short: consenting to one system and making a personal purchase based off a contingency invites someone to be screwed over by a forced change that directly impacts that versatility.

[quote=SilverFoxR]Or, hey, here's a novel idea. If you don't like the system, don't buy it! Revolutionary, no?[/quote]

See above.

[quote=SilverFoxR]Another nice thing about the system change? Although it's a temporary pet, the Puffram you get from ToT is free and comes with the auto-loot skill. This means that, while it might be a short time, even non-paying players can experience an auto-looting pet for themselves. They even went further with the Maple Point system and shop that also has a temporary pet and 1 water of life you can purchase exclusively with earned Maple Points, so again, get to experience a pet without ever spending a cent.[/quote]

That's all nice. If you told me the cost-benefit ratio of imposing this change is a good one and is for the greater good, I wouldn't dispute it. If you said it should've happened this way and was ultimately the better direction, that would be a discussion in which I wouldn't have involved myself.

I simply say the cost of that imposition screwed some people over, even though it helped many.

This is why Nexon is able to make so much money with the most bullcrap pay to win systems, they literally have fanboys all over defending them LMFAO

Wow, you spend 2$ like 5 years ago. GG. Now stop QQing, at least pets have a purpose on their own now.

[quote=DogPukeYellow]Which is exactly how Nexon screwed people over. Putting a casual modifier like "only" doesn't detract from that.

That's a binary way of looking at it. People bought not only pet equips but pet themselves based on a system.

They completely changed the system through the pet equips such that people's reasons for buying pets were affected as a result of that. They didn't refund choices that were directly influenced by a system they designed and decided to change the terms on without our consent. We bought into that system with our consent.[/quote]

One, the TC was talking directly about the pet item skills... and since all pets, permanent or otherwise recieved this ability by default, nobody got "screwed over", especially since everyone who had the temporary items at the time were refunded with NX able to allow them to buy other things.

And yes, they completely changed the system. They made permanent pets a one-time purchase instead of having to re-purchase the same items over and over. Sure, you can buy multiple pets, but none of them need all the skills. Give one the important skills you want and leave the others at default. Or, hey, here's a novel idea. If you don't like the system, don't buy it! Revolutionary, no?

Another nice thing about the system change? Although it's a temporary pet, the Puffram you get from ToT is free and comes with the auto-loot skill. This means that, while it might be a short time, even non-paying players can experience an auto-looting pet for themselves. They even went further with the Maple Point system and shop that also has a temporary pet and 1 water of life you can purchase exclusively with earned Maple Points, so again, get to experience a pet without ever spending a cent.

[quote=Elufu]The only thing that you would have been disadvantaged of is the fact that you can not share pet skills between pets.[/quote]

Which is exactly how Nexon screwed people over. Putting a casual modifier like "only" doesn't detract from that.

[quote=CherryTigers]They refunded everything in maple points already.[/quote]

That's a binary way of looking at it. People bought not only pet equips but pet themselves based on a system.

They completely changed the system through the pet equips such that people's reasons for buying pets were affected as a result of that. They didn't refund choices that were directly influenced by a system they designed and decided to change the terms on without our consent. We bought into that system with our consent.

Edit: Reply to @SilverFoxR on P2.

Not to also mention but pet skills are [b]permanent[/b]. The only thing that you would have been disadvantaged of is the fact that you can not share pet skills between pets.

As @Rationalism and @CherryTigers said, players who had temporary and permanent pet skill equips [url=http://maplestory.nexon.net/news/updates/update-notes/00HnE/v-149-legacy-of-nine-update-notes#petrevamp]received a refund in Maple Points[/url], which they could use to purchase the new (and relatively cheap) pet skills. I even have friends who said they were refunded quite generously.

They refunded everything in maple points already.

pet loot/mesos is free on all pets. As for the MP and HP once you purchase it, it's perm aswell which costs ~5-6k nx. Unless you bought it for all 3 pets you didn't really lose that much.

Also what CherryTigers said, they also gave free Maple points.

They did give people maple points equivalent to the amount their pet equips were worth to buy the skills.