General

The 5 second ME cooldown kinda ruins it, I have to turn PP off or I get a crap ton of mesos lying around that I can't use.

@croth: haha yeah I had that issue for a few of my runs. If you bothered reading what I said, the overall tone is I welcome the change. Justs seems like you were nitpicking but that could just be me.

[quote=lolitstom]As a bandit/chief bandit/shadower main since V0.35. I do agree with this change. Dark sight is probably the most powerful first job skill in terms of utility. It let you stalk pros , dodge physical damage attacks and also allows you to dodge meteors, vellum stun rocks and as such it vastly increases the survivability of thief classes in for some end game bosses.

It was my gateway skill to learning Chaos vellum and hard magnus, but now that I am confident in those bosses, I find myself using less and less darksight. When I party up, I get this urge to be competitive in terms of mechanical skill as I watch my hero friend do exactly what I do, but without darksight.

The change to allowing you to avoid one % hp attack seems more in line and still borders overpowered-ness. You have a variety of other tools to get you out of danger, phase dash for example or a delayed flash jump another. You still get one more tool than most other classes. and besides 5 second cool down ... Lols... if you really really want it, get a cooldown reduction hat .

One thing I wish the reworked is smokescreen... I wish it remained as an invincibility field.[/quote]

The thing is though, using dark sight increases the chance that it will glitch out (autofail at magnus or perma stuck underground at cvellum).

[quote=sengarasu]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSNvHwga9oc&list=PLvyxjgrzUR3XWOl03heK-xGn1XGakhNTW&index=5 he doesnt need dark sight to avoid rocks for vellum. neither do i. pierre?hats are easy to avoid/break out of, but thats assuming you dont know how to position. all of these situations can be avoided with great positioning, which brings me to me next point. positioning in hmag does NOT MATTER. you NEED dark sight in there. eventually you WILL be killed if you do not have your dark sight. and being a class with lots of buffs, when you revive, you are screwed, because shadower has 6 buffs that must be maintained. a whopping 6 buffs. so dying is very, very, very bad.[/quote]

I don't mean to interrupt the shadower rant, but just to put this in perspective, luminous has seven buffs that need to be maintained, and they have a freaking insane amount of buff delay (three seconds for one buff!) with no DS.

As a bandit/chief bandit/shadower main since V0.35. I do agree with this change. Dark sight is probably the most powerful first job skill in terms of utility. It let you stalk pros , dodge physical damage attacks and also allows you to dodge meteors, vellum stun rocks and as such it vastly increases the survivability of thief classes in for some end game bosses.

It was my gateway skill to learning Chaos vellum and hard magnus, but now that I am confident in those bosses, I find myself using less and less darksight. When I party up, I get this urge to be competitive in terms of mechanical skill as I watch my hero friend do exactly what I do, but without darksight.

The change to allowing you to avoid one % hp attack seems more in line and still borders overpowered-ness. You have a variety of other tools to get you out of danger, phase dash for example or a delayed flash jump another. You still get one more tool than most other classes. and besides 5 second cool down ... Lols... if you really really want it, get a cooldown reduction hat .

One thing I wish the reworked is smokescreen... I wish it remained as an invincibility field.

This seems to be Nexon's pattern for balancing classes. Let's just pray they know what they're doing and have some amazing things lined up for 5th job.

Pfft I quit shad when they took my assaulter away f3

I'm hoping that one day, there will be an update that brings back BoT, Assaulter, and makes Shadowers THE class again.

[quote=deeemon]What happened to Mesoguard?

Anyways, I kinda agree. Nexon probably hired some new dump for brains ever since that Justice update and they have no idea what a Shadower, or a real Chief Bandit, is suppose to be like.[/quote]

lost my love for cb/shads a long time ago

#Morefundsandmonstercarnival

[quote=sengarasu]positioning in hmag does NOT MATTER. you NEED dark sight in there. eventually you WILL be killed if you do not have your dark sight. [/quote]

not true. A lot of classes w/o dark sight can do non-death hard mag solo. Positioning is #1 priority for any end game boss.

[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOJmRabyL_g][/url]
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn-_1pLXek8][/url]

They're slowly trying to make all the maplestory classes fit into this "Grey" area by sucking them dry of their individual traits.

So now shads aren't tanky hit hardly any lines and takes massive amounts of funding. They have literally made all my favorite classes extremely difficult to play/fund.

I'm going back to NL..

[quote=sengarasu]Meso guard does not work for 1hkos, % hp attacks, or damage reflect. EVERY single one of the endgame bosses main, spammable attacks are of those 3 categories. This makes your primary defense totally worthless, and a waste of frames. [/quote]

I'm just saying, Magic Guard (which shields for 85% of incoming damage) also doesn't work for those... Damage reflect should be deflected, but OHKOs and %HP attacks are supposed to be dodged from positioning well and reacting. Magnus doesn't count, that's purely RNG.

I switched to no after the last major reboot to shads. I liked the old sinate and old feel of shads. It's really too bad cause it was my favorite class. I'd prefer them to take all the skills back to before the last major change. Not trying to be one of those pre Big Bang whiners but I hate how they have changed shad so much.

No, this nerf was warranted. Dark Sight was just too good and we all knew it. I just didn't think they'd address it anytime soon.

As a shadower main, I am personally ok with the dark sight nerf because it only effects magnus and von bon near the end of the fight. If all other classes can kill these bosses without such a skill, I'm sure all other thieves will be just as fine. Plus it's not like we can't use it at all, we can still avoid that 1 attack than everyone else and 5 seconds isn't even that long.

@Sengarasu When I die in hard magnus, I don't have a problem with rebuffing. Just stand in the left corner and hope a purple or blue ball doesn't fall exactly where I am.

[quote=sengarasu]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSNvHwga9oc&list=PLvyxjgrzUR3XWOl03heK-xGn1XGakhNTW&index=5 he doesnt need dark sight to avoid rocks for vellum. neither do i. pierre?hats are easy to avoid/break out of, but thats assuming you dont know how to position. all of these situations can be avoided with great positioning, which brings me to me next point. positioning in hmag does NOT MATTER. you NEED dark sight in there. eventually you WILL be killed if you do not have your dark sight. and being a class with lots of buffs, when you revive, you are screwed, because shadower has 6 buffs that must be maintained. a whopping 6 buffs. so dying is very, very, very bad.[/quote]

I agree with most of your points, and I hate the "revamp" as much as you do, but that line of thinking is flawed. Just because YOU don't need dark sight doesn't mean that it doesn't help people who are perhaps less skilled.

In HMag, I don't really find myself spamming dark sight anyways, so the gameplay there should not be much changed.

However, I still think this update is pretty harsh on Shadowers considering the class was never really overpowered anyways and didn't deserve these nerfs.

Can we elect @Sengarasu to Maple Council to represent our class?

[quote=sengarasu]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSNvHwga9oc&list=PLvyxjgrzUR3XWOl03heK-xGn1XGakhNTW&index=5 he doesnt need dark sight to avoid rocks for vellum. neither do i. pierre?hats are easy to avoid/break out of, but thats assuming you dont know how to position. all of these situations can be avoided with great positioning, which brings me to me next point. positioning in hmag does NOT MATTER. you NEED dark sight in there. eventually you WILL be killed if you do not have your dark sight. and being a class with lots of buffs, when you revive, you are screwed, because shadower has 6 buffs that must be maintained. a whopping 6 buffs. so dying is very, very, very bad.[/quote]

he doesnt need ds for vellum doesnt mean you or the rest of shadower dont need. he can do perfect position doesnt mean u or the rest of the shadower can do. he can do perfect position doesnt mean he do perfect position everytime when he boss.

u dont have to use it in boss doesnt mean its not an OP skill that cannot make ur life easier.

if ds isnt taht important to you why u care if thye nerf it or not?

also stop using 6 buff as ur excuse, not like shadower is the only job that have 6 buff needed in hmag, tehre r way more class that have more buff than shadower.

Just going to say... get nerf is just a part of playing the class. I mainly switched from NL> NW due to the extra mobility. Up jump and Backstep is just too good to not have. I never really cared too much about the damage since all classes can do a ton of damage with decent funding.

In the recent nerf, they nerfed backstep to have 5secs. I guess ill just have to adjust to having that 5secs. i didnt really care that much about losing that 20-40% damage from quint throw so

L> for nexon to remove cooldown on backstep.

PS: Personally I believe Shadowers, NL, and NW should have backstep. We are a thief... we need to be agile as hell. I mean look at DB's. All of their skills basically have some form of mobility put in.

Reading this over, it seems like their idea of balancing is taking away unique features without actually balancing these out with more abilities on par with other classes. That is to say, we're losing abilities other classes have in their own ways, without having our own way to do these things, making us uniquely vulnerable by comparison.

I've never been a powerful character [i](I'm not rich ingame - my appearance is the result of my interest in CS updates and buying solely what I was interested in)[/i] but I have been in the Shadower's job branch since 2006 - I would never change from this class. It is unsettling to me the changes against funded Shadowers which will harm unfunded Shadowers like me.

well at least you did get 10 more attack. In the last 2 class rebalanced, nexon has done pretty much nothing to NL in terms of buff

Ive hated my shadower since i made it

It may have high damage skills but the skills are slow and kinda sucky(outdated)

Tbh based on their history of how they make revamps, 5th job will likely not reach most people's expectations

[quote=deeemon]What happened to Mesoguard?

Anyways, I kinda agree. Nexon probably hired some new dump for brains ever since that Justice update and they have no idea what a Shadower, or a real Chief Bandit, is suppose to be like.[/quote]

Meso guard does not work for 1hkos, % hp attacks, or damage reflect. EVERY single one of the endgame bosses main, spammable attacks are of those 3 categories. This makes your primary defense totally worthless, and a waste of frames. Boomerang step does not help with this either, as these attacks cannot be avoided. The last and final defense is dark sight..... which is getting nerfed. The compensation for it? oh.....10 attack. 10 measly attack. I honestly would not care about the nerf if they updated meso guard, gave us Bot ,Assaulter, Taunt, and Chakra back. 5th job better be right around the corner, or the class is totally dumpstered.

What happened to Mesoguard?

Anyways, I kinda agree. Nexon probably hired some new dump for brains ever since that Justice update and they have no idea what a Shadower, or a real Chief Bandit, is suppose to be like.

I dont know if I should continue my shadower or go back to my nightwalker... >.<

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSNvHwga9oc&list=PLvyxjgrzUR3XWOl03heK-xGn1XGakhNTW&index=5 he doesnt need dark sight to avoid rocks for vellum. neither do i. pierre?hats are easy to avoid/break out of, but thats assuming you dont know how to position. all of these situations can be avoided with great positioning, which brings me to me next point. positioning in hmag does NOT MATTER. you NEED dark sight in there. eventually you WILL be killed if you do not have your dark sight. and being a class with lots of buffs, when you revive, you are screwed, because shadower has 6 buffs that must be maintained. a whopping 6 buffs. so dying is very, very, very bad.

@sengarasu: when u can easily avoid certain boss' pasterns, it provides thief more time to attack thus more dmg dealt on boss>>>op

also pierre, dark sight to avoid hat its just amazing.

vellum too. failing rock cant stun give thief more chance of surviving when vellum uses his laser.

u ve mention hmag&gollux thats like literally the most profitable boss atm, how many more boss patterns to avoid wiht ds to make thief consider being op?

[quote=jerry5000]nerfing dark sight for other thief job is necessary because theives just too op in end game bosses especially in hard magnus.
but for shadower i feels they need do something different coz u need dark sight for assassinate for dmg boost[/quote]
night walker has tons of mobility, damage,dark sight, AND a revive.
The other thief classes are not over powered because they have dark sight. They are fairly linear damage dealers that take a ton of funding to be effective, and have absolutely NO damage mitigation vs end game bosses. The only, and i mean only reason dark sight might seem "op" is because it can be used at magnus. Other than hellux death mark(which is easily avoided anyway) there is no other use for the skill.

question, what revive skills do other explorer thief classes have to avoid dying?

"1hit wonder boss" I know man too much of that crap these days. </3

nerfing dark sight for other thief job is necessary because theives just too op in end game bosses especially in hard magnus.
but for shadower i feels they need do something different coz u need dark sight for assassinate for dmg boost

Switched to NL not too long ago from 7 years as a shad. No regrets.