General

@onerockgod I'm not sure if you realize this or not but 90% of us are just upset about our skills looking so childish and blast getting screwed other wish it was a decent revamp.

[quote=Frostilyte]@ihavefood - Yeah it definitely becomes similar to those moves in a lot of ways. I'd, personally, like to still see it as a main attack rather than this piece of crap I only cast for a 15 second buff.
The bit with the elements is a bit of a refresher for me. The secondary effects actually work on bosses (finally) and party mobs (also finally).
And it's crit was reduced to 40% and no longer applies to the just blast. Blast eats your charge stack and gives you a buff for 15 seconds based on the stack size. 1-2 gives +40% critical, 3-4 gives 30% PDR and 5 gives 40% total damage. As far as I know, they don't stack, not that it'd be easy to keep them stacked when they only last 15 seconds. </3

@PallyCookie - nice to see you around basil even though you quit your pally! Hope your real life endeavours have been successful thus far.
Chit-chat aside, if we still had our current blast in this new patch then yes, having 10% critical damage would most definitely stabilize one's damage with a 100% critical move over having crappy old 5% PDR. XD
Also, source for the 10% critical damage please. I read translations on southperry and did self translations of the skill and it came out as 10% max critical damage for me (using google lol) and that's also what Locked and JoeTang came up with.
[url=http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=66864]source[/url]

[b]Stop reading - I end up proving myself wrong[/b]
And 5% pdr is good or bad relative to the amount of PDR you have versus the amount of Defence % a monster has. If you are attacking a regular mob (10% defence) then yes, 5% is garbage (would reduce def to 9.5%), but say you are attacking something like Chaos Vellum (yes I know this is unrealistic) who has 300% def. In this cast 5% pdr would work out to 15% reducing his def to 285% (bleh that is kinda horrible isn't it? :x). Either way, it's not 100% garbage, but...yeah I can see why most people aren't happy about it after having crunched a few numbers lol. (Don't even bother responding to this XD)
[b]Begin reading again[/b]

That 95% stacks separately and does so in a multiplicative fashion, so it's not technically 95% (post Unlimited in KMS anyway). Also, agreed. This is why I still have it massively in the pants for threat and was happy to see it still around! Hope the hypers aren't changed for it...unless Nexon makes the proc one +25% instead of +20%. 100% proc yes please. <3

Yeah I'm not to sure on what our unlimited will bring. I know there was a post from a GM(?) where it was stated that Nexon NA's Maple division wasn't exactly a fan of the changes made with Unlimited. Because of this I'm basing most of what I'm saying on KMS. Some of the changes they made make sense for the Maple they(Koreans) have, while they don't for the one we currently have. Seeing as how we aren't entirely sure what GMS will look like in the future I still don't know how I feel about parts of this overhaul, but I do like some of the ideas presented. They could use some tweaking though. Trying to keep an open mind for now. Like @PoetryThe10th (did I get that right?) said, remember our hyper skills when we first saw them from tespia versus what actually hit the live server. So now we just have to wait and watch - [b]patiently[/b]. Can't stress that bold part enough. [/quote]

I am so glad you mentioned that we need to be patient. It's just weird seeing everyone freak out but I guess the silver lining is that voices were heard from it all although I don't think the complaining on basil amounted to much. I wish that the mastery was for both weapons because it makes you choose between gear rather than having it be universal. Same goes with the rosary not applying to shield mastery which is stupid that it's now guardian with less status resist.

@ihavefood - Yeah it definitely becomes similar to those moves in a lot of ways. I'd, personally, like to still see it as a main attack rather than this piece of crap I only cast for a 15 second buff.
The bit with the elements is a bit of a refresher for me. The secondary effects actually work on bosses (finally) and party mobs (also finally).
And it's crit was reduced to 40% and no longer applies to the just blast. Blast eats your charge stack and gives you a buff for 15 seconds based on the stack size. 1-2 gives +40% critical, 3-4 gives 30% PDR and 5 gives 40% total damage. As far as I know, they don't stack, not that it'd be easy to keep them stacked when they only last 15 seconds. </3

@PallyCookie - nice to see you around basil even though you quit your pally! Hope your real life endeavours have been successful thus far.
Chit-chat aside, if we still had our current blast in this new patch then yes, having 10% critical damage would most definitely stabilize one's damage with a 100% critical move over having crappy old 5% PDR. XD
Also, source for the 10% critical damage please. I read translations on southperry and did self translations of the skill and it came out as 10% max critical damage for me (using google lol) and that's also what Locked and JoeTang came up with.
[url=http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=66864]source[/url]

[b]Stop reading - I end up proving myself wrong[/b]
And 5% pdr is good or bad relative to the amount of PDR you have versus the amount of Defence % a monster has. If you are attacking a regular mob (10% defence) then yes, 5% is garbage (would reduce def to 9.5%), but say you are attacking something like Chaos Vellum (yes I know this is unrealistic) who has 300% def. In this cast 5% pdr would work out to 15% reducing his def to 285% (bleh that is kinda horrible isn't it? :x). Either way, it's not 100% garbage, but...yeah I can see why most people aren't happy about it after having crunched a few numbers lol. (Don't even bother responding to this XD)
[b]Begin reading again[/b]

That 95% stacks separately and does so in a multiplicative fashion, so it's not technically 95% (post Unlimited in KMS anyway). Also, agreed. This is why I still have it massively in the pants for threat and was happy to see it still around! Hope the hypers aren't changed for it...unless Nexon makes the proc one +25% instead of +20%. 100% proc yes please. <3

Yeah I'm not to sure on what our unlimited will bring. I know there was a post from a GM(?) where it was stated that Nexon NA's Maple division wasn't exactly a fan of the changes made with Unlimited. Because of this I'm basing most of what I'm saying on KMS. Some of the changes they made make sense for the Maple they(Koreans) have, while they don't for the one we currently have. Seeing as how we aren't entirely sure what GMS will look like in the future I still don't know how I feel about parts of this overhaul, but I do like some of the ideas presented. They could use some tweaking though. Trying to keep an open mind for now. Like @PoetryThe10th (did I get that right?) said, remember our hyper skills when we first saw them from tespia versus what actually hit the live server. So now we just have to wait and watch - [b]patiently[/b]. Can't stress that bold part enough.

I just want rosario to be compatible with shield mastery so that I can buy the 2h fafnir mace. It's so darn cheap.

@Frostilyte i still don't really like the idea of blast being a finisher. it's kinda copying heroes, using rb for both mobs and bosses and then enrage for boss stuff. or maybe BaMs, with finishing blow and the additional attack (forgot what it's called). the elements just became some kind of combo thing that doesn't really make sense (holy does more damage to stunned mobs?) and blast is no longer your main move. it's becoming too mainstream...
also, the patch notes didn't say anything about blast still having/not having 50% crit? i would miss 100% crit blast if there isn't any more crit effect.

[quote=SilentJudicator]The other changes i can somewhat tolerate in a WORSE CASE SCENARIO that these updates do go live in the actual servers. The 2 i absolutely cant stand to see in the live servers are: the blast attack speed and the 5% pdr VS 10% attack. The latter is practically screwing over paladins with 1 hand maces, myself included. 5% pdr and 10% attack has way too much of a difference.[/quote]

It's not 10% attack. It's 10% max crit.

Paladin Expert:
30 Mastery: +70%, Physical and Magical Defense: +400, Minimum Critical Damage: +15%, [i]Swords - Maximum Critical Damage: +10%[/i], Blunt Weapons - Defense Ignored +5%
-Translation from Locked and JoeTang of Southperry.

I'm going to assume you read Max's blog over reading southperry (you can correct me if I'm wrong on that). If you do the translations yourself, which is a royal pain in the rear, it translates more accurately into what's on southperry over what Max has posted on his blog. You'll want to read the level readout because the description is misleading. o.o

I do agree on the blast's attack speed, but due to the new nature of the attack is shouldn't be as fast as the current version. It's going from a main attacking skill to a 'finisher' of sorts. Also, as a blunt weapon user, I don't mind the PDR boost over a max crit boost. Taking into account the new PDR system and the changes to blast 2 things become true: I'm no longer going to be hitting 100% criticals anymore and I'm going to always have my damage reduced by some factor. Knowing this, having PDR for more stable damage seems better to me, in those previously listed circumstances, then having a chance at landing a slightly stronger hit on the off chance I actually land a critical with a 15% critical chance (5% base and assuming 10% critical hyper).
Now, I would also like to say, if blast was NOT changed from how it is at this very moment and I was still hitting criticals with it 100% of the time, having the skill paladin expert would be a massive shaft. However, taking into account all of the changes made, I don't mind the PDR over max critical.

Edit: I need to proof read better before hitting submit...

The other changes i can somewhat tolerate in a WORSE CASE SCENARIO that these updates do go live in the actual servers. The 2 i absolutely cant stand to see in the live servers are: the blast attack speed and the 5% pdr VS 10% attack. The latter is practically screwing over paladins with 1 hand maces, myself included. 5% pdr and 10% attack has way too much of a difference.

[quote=Pashmimi]I hope they change our skills... Because the changes I don't like are [i]these ones exactly,[/i] and that's saying something. I'm pretty sure if you asked every Paladin about which changes they didn't like, almost every Paladin's opinion would be about the same, give or take a few things...[/quote]

Mine seems to be kinda far off from everyone else's opinion on the revamp. o.o
Fairly sure I'm a minority.

Edit: fixed spelling errors XD

[quote=SilentJudicator]Well, I guess it started off looking like an ignorant moron trying to dispute solid facts with those of us more experienced with the paladin class, so we tried a little civilised debate which of course, in a forum could lead to full scale flame wars with the power of 10 million burning suns. But yes the paladins ARE frustrated about the changes...i like the charge changes, but the loss of 1 v 1, a blast which attacks slower than turtles mate, the meagre 10 attack offered for losing 20% def (although this can be ignored without using the skill), an abysmal 5% pdr for MACE users...all adding fuel to the fire.[/quote]
I hope they change our skills... Because the changes I don't like are [i]these ones exactly,[/i] and that's saying something. I'm pretty sure if you asked every Paladin about which changes they didn't like, almost every Paladin's opinion would be about the same, give or take a few things...

[quote=Pashmimi]-sigh-... All these Pallies are really worked up because this update [i]is[/i] really infuriating... I hope he stops... We're already frustrated enough...[/quote]

Well, I guess it started off looking like an ignorant moron trying to dispute solid facts with those of us more experienced with the paladin class, so we tried a little civilised debate which of course, in a forum could lead to full scale flame wars with the power of 10 million burning suns. But yes the paladins ARE frustrated about the changes...i like the charge changes, but the loss of 1 v 1, a blast which attacks slower than turtles mate, the meagre 10 attack offered for losing 20% def (although this can be ignored without using the skill), an abysmal 5% pdr for MACE users...all adding fuel to the fire.

[quote=cKingg]Smh those pallies, its 's obvious that he's trolling. If you stopped replying then he also would stop replying.

Applause for him though, for trolling so much people.[/quote]
-sigh-... All these Pallies are really worked up because this update [i]is[/i] really infuriating... I hope he stops... We're already frustrated enough...

Some people can't seem to understand what the word ''Opinion'' means.

[quote=aSalad]ad hominem won't get your argument anywhere just sayin'
that aside, it's perfectly okay to like the paladin redesign. if you feel that the new design is more fitting for a paladin, great for you!
of course, if you don't like the redesign, that is perfectly fine as well! nothing is stopping you from voicing your concerns about the revamp, especially seeing how nexon is making it quite clear that they are open to player input. voicing your concern about a potential redesign doesn't make you a rumproasted toddler.
y'all need to relax[/quote]

It's fine to like the design its the way hes being disrespectful to everyone else that no one is liking. Go read all his posts.

[quote=OneRockGod]@KillerZero4: 146 last time i updated it* '
i keep it for the look. Im not playing it anymore and is currently ugly.

if im not worth stalking why are you continuing to quote me in posts that literally have nothing to do with you? i even stopped replying to your quotes until you started stalking me again. go play with someone else. youre boring and write long ass posts about me. its creepy.[/quote]

Because, your being retarded? Sorry i should be politically correct. I mean your acting like a person with a low iq and can't comprehend/bother to try to understand us. Also its not "stalking" if your STILL posting in the same thread that people have told you to stop posting pretty much because you don't understand, doesn't mean i can't quote you. Stalking would be me going to a random thread outside of the paladin section, and then post about it. Obviously I am not doing this. So please keep using the word incorrectly.
I didn't know posting a 1 line post, and a 4 line post were considered "long" Maybe to the retar.....i mean low iq people, and lmao,hell i dont even know you, nor do i care to
Im not writing long as posts about you. Im simply stating why you are retarded... i mean wrong. Please come at me bro, you keep making yourself look worse with every post you do.

[quote=OneRockGod]@KillerZero4: I have a Paladin. Look in my players section. You can not shake my opinion that Pallys actually look fun now. I have seen the kmst videos. Heros dont have much playstyle change, but Drks and Pallys look pretty fun now.

I didnt respond to your quote for a reason. No need to stalk me. Get off my ass. I dont play that way.[/quote]

LMAO, you think your worth stalking, lol. I just read the last page of this thread, and saw how you posted it again, and i responded. Oh, so now you have seen the kmst videos, when earlier you claimed you haven't nor cared too and your a level 146 paladin. If this was post 4th job advance getting changed to 100, I really doubt you experienced everything you could have with that character. Even now if it was after the job advancement change, 146 is way to low level to even fully understand what they did.

[quote=OneRockGod]@SilentJudicator: pls omg mesars pl0x

-continues to refute points-[/quote]

Look hes so proa, hes "refuting" by NOT providing evidence, BY NOT being a paladin, and by NOT bothering to actually go look at the kmst videos.

[quote=aSalad]alright so
guys just hear me out
what if the entire point of getting rid of a paladin's defense
is so they can give it back in the now-confirmed fifth job[/quote]

If that WAS the case then there'd be less outrage. But unfortunately
1. people basing their opinions and disappointment on what is already confirmed - tespia content.
2. defence isnt the only thing people aren't happy about. The speed of blast and loss of 1v1 is also a concern.

Until they reveal what it is like in 5th job, i dont think anyone would be less disappointed.

[quote=OneRockGod]@SilentJudicator: oh please, do go on. your anger thrills me [/quote]

Oh please, do go on, your STUPIDITY entertains me, its a lot more fun than reading the "pls omg mesars pl0x" threads. I capitalise the words which i put emphasis on, which in no way makes me "angry". If you can refute ANY of the points people have put up id welcome you to do so.

[quote=OneRockGod]@viridic: it's called an overhaul. You explorers wanted a revamp for so damn long and as soon as you get it, you complain. You explorers don't even know what you want. A revamp is not simply adding damage... Funny how when that's all that nexon does, people complain its not a revamp. But when nexon does a real revamp, everyone complains its not just adding damage. Smh[/quote]

In all due respect...you should just shut your bloated meat flaps about a class you know little to nothing about. , if you dont POSSESS or played the class, you have no rights to put your biased views here considering you do not seem to understand what other posters have said and repeatedly so at that. To end your ignorance (i dont think i'll have much of a chance but i'll give it a go anyways for the sanity of logical people) here are some things i propose:

1. Go play a paladin to understand its skills and play style
2. Go watch the videos of Tespia to understand why all the outrage
3. Read the current patch notes and compare the skills with what you have played and seen in the video from the view and interest of a PALADIN.

If the above 3 steps have not been experienced, you have NO IDEA why there is outrage in the paladin community. The majority of paladins are NOT complaining because of lack of attack, hell most people who play paladins didnt do it for the attack. But being a DB its too bloody hard (no puns intended) to understand isnt it? Now get your virtual head out of your REAR ORIFICE and understand that:

1. The majority of the "revamps" did not or did very little to compensate for what the paladins are losing, many things still need tweaking so nothing is yet final, which leads me to the next point.
2. It is a FEEDBACK BASED testing going on, like what they did with the battle mage one. If you had taken this idea in, you would not have criticised people for "whining" about the changes.
3. I agree with you about how a revamp ISNT just about adding damage. A revamp is supposed to improve game play in one way or another, i fail to see why the majority of sensible paladin players should not contribute feedback to some of the skills which have not appealed to them.
4. Stop labelling JUSTIFIED feedback as "whining" and "complaining". Even if you label them so, they will not stop and we WILL get those skills readjusted.
5. We know EXACTLY WHAT WE WANT and we are giving feedback (or at least the KMS players should be). YOU on the other hand do not know what we want and you should not try argue with us if you have not even made the most basic effort to understand the majority of the posters' thread.

In quotation to your earlier statement and to be fair to a POLITE dual blade who posted earlier...i honestly hope with all my heart that YOU and YOU ALONE get a DB nerf or experience game crippling mechanics so you would whine by yourself and nobody would care.

@PoetryThe10th: Welp, I guess we'll just have to wait for him to reply to that, then, because I don't see why you're such a "nuisance" to basil.
If he stops you from posting on your Pink Pally though, [url=http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/135/2/7/i__m_sharpening_my_knife__kupo__by_multishadowyoshi-d4zxu6w.jpg]kupo...[/url]

@PoetryThe10th: That [i]is[/i] really awkward... Wow... All those accounts...
What is it that you're doing that's making you get banned, though? You're not some hardcore troll or anything... o.o

@PoetryThe10th Gosh, do you just keep getting banned? Poor you!
I really hope that the Pallies playing KMST have the at least some of the same reactions as us... Or else we'll be stuck with this...

[quote=SeeMeTwice] I'm off to sleep. I plan to see many responses in the morning disputing what I said, but I just wanted to put in my perspective.
I'd personally want to play paladin over most any other class after this revamp.
Cheers, hope I didn't offend with this staggering wall of text.[/quote]
Well u r polite so u will get polite responses
We know that they give us some things we wanted long ago, but the defense nerf wasnt necessary it all, only a reskin for blast with the new animation and maybe a bit more of damage would be great(and way faster than who it is right now), charges should stay the same as before bcuz they gave us dmg%, they finally moved some warrios skills we(explorer warriors in general) needed earlier, like rush or stance, they should move Divine shield back to 4th job and bring magic crash to 3rd and keep the buffs, paladin expert seems odd, i think they should give those buffs from pally expert to ACB and that would be enough, parashock guard should be a 4th job skill and reduce some% defense without taking out our defense, finally they should bring back power guard and delete page order ( </3 ) and give us back 200% shield mastery, bcuz if we have only 50% we only have the half of DS and mihile's defense so they are the defense classes now...
obviously this is my opinion and im defenitly not ragequitting, but i want some good changes, not a nerf we didnt deserve to begin with...

@seemetwice if you post nicely you won't get flamed that much unlike some ppl...
We complained about the uselessness of sacrosanct cos we didn't have hpdmg based bosses, so it was really useless when we could survive bosses easily. And then these bosses came along so we wanted defense against hpdmg attacks. Instead, they reduced our defence really terribly... I dont really care for the charges personally and for our attack, but making blast a mob skill was just </3

I don't mean to flame but from here is my view from what I've seen.

The majority of the last few buffs paladins got were all ill-received.
I heard a whole lot of, "Why raise our defenses when we're already invincible!" Paladins were already great tanks and had insane defenses.
Now some of these defenses that you guys have complained about getting are gone. Does that make you guys squishy? From what it seems, pallies are still incredibly high tier if not still the top defense wise.

Damage wise.. I agree. This was horrible for paladins. I'm not going to argue that at all.
I will say that the idea of skill chaining and all the new playstyles you guys got seem fun. I hope Nexon changes this to be similar but with better damage and a viable 1v1.

You guys got amazing party skills.
Parashock guard is insane and exactly what paladins needed. I think it fits them personally.
Guardian Spirit? A res? That's insane. You're now two of a kind. No one else has that vital ability but you and bishop.
With smite, crash, parashock, co, guardian spirit, invincibilitythinguie I think you guys are amazing support as well as tanks.

[b]Basically,[/b] I think Nexon traded damage for party viability. Defenses are undoubtedly still well above average.
It might not be what you want, but I understand the direction Nexon is going with the class. I would rather have a paladin in my party more than any other support character because of smite/crash alone. Co makes it even better. Guardian spirit now better. Res makes it irresistible.

-----
I haven't read other comments in this thread, so idk what I've said or am about to say has been stated before, sorry.
I saw on southperry paladins wanting buffs for 2h/mace.

I agree maces should have a difference usage. Maybe make swords 1v1 oriented and maces mobbing oriented.
2h attack based and 1h + shield defense/party based.
With completely different skills/animations to go with each.
That way, there are 4 separate play styles to choose, and uses for each weapon.
-----
I'm off to sleep. I plan to see many responses in the morning disputing what I said, but I just wanted to put in my perspective.
I'd personally want to play paladin over most any other class after this revamp.
Cheers, hope I didn't offend with this staggering wall of text.

This reminds me of how thieves were waiting so long for their revamp, got excited and when they first saw it started to complain so hard. Well since that's what nexon wrote, I guess it's up to KMS players to decide the fate of the paladin( and other warriors). I hope pally's get a new 1v1 if blast remains a mob skill.

The only thing I hate is how chargd blow is the mob and 1vs1 skill. If they change that and make blast better for bossing then im fine with this revamp. I also like the charged blow system where u use one charge and then the other like a combo.

Looking at Pre-BB times, we've endured being one of the worst classes for as long as it was until Post-BB hit. Can't we enjoy being our own class without having all you Dual Blades, Wild Hunters, and other irrelevent characters criticizing our every thought? If it weren't for Nexon's money hungry schemes, your classes wouldn't even exist. Be thankful that there's more options than just 4 Adventurer classes..

I'm also glad that there are Paladin users out here that are educated enough to tell off the ignorant people that act like we're the only ones that whine about having terrible, terrible revamps. How about criticizing the Heroes for gaining so much more power than they deserve? How about criticizing the "Berserkers" for getting such flashy skills? Tired of the prejudice; you stick to your class and we'll stick to ours. I have yet to see a Paladin whine and kick in a Dual Blade's forums.. *eyes that one troll*

Damn, you pallies sure know how defend yourselves pretty well.....heh heh, get it?

Another thought, by taking away our defense, Nexon should give us %hp resistance, so if a boss will do 40% hp damage, and we resists 50%, we'd only be taking 20% hp damage.

Personally I feel they should've just left the defenses you guys had the same and boosted your damage some; add in a few new things here and there (although I admit I have trouble thinking of what because I was asking myself before the revamps were shown "HOW do you make something that NEVER dies better?&quot revamp you guys had is pretty bad and I feel for you since a revamp usually strengthens you; not the other way around =P Nice to see that nexon is hearing peoples opinions though to decide on revamps. Dark knight and Hero got pretty impressive revamps (if I do say so myself anyway; especially the dark once since it strengthened us alot and ironed out most of our flaws) I hope the paladin one can be just as great when all is said and done.

[quote=SkullMasher]Now you're just exagerating. All they did was to expand on the charges and the synergy between them, instead of sticking to one depending on the situations, which is already terrible. So far they get it right.

Get that ''kaiser-raging blow'' crap out of there.[/quote]
But that's what it looks like... [url=http://www.gophoto.it/view.php?i=http://orangemushroom.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/blast-effect.gif#.UaaQE5ywVgE]The lovechild of Kaiser and Raging Blow. xD[/url] Come on, am I not allowed to poke fun at what the skill looks like?

It's not that we're complaining about the charges. I actually don't really mind that. What we're complaining about is the [b]huge defense nerf[/b] we got. Shield Mastery went from [b]200%[/b] to [b]50%[/b] defense. Power Guard was removed. We lost 2 hits of invincibility from Divine Shield. We lost 10% status ignore/attribute attack ignore. We lost 1% (lol...) damage reduction from Achilles. Not to mention that to make up for the 14 attack we lost from Divine Shield, we have to have Parashock Guard on, making us lose another 20% defense and guard rate. Don't you see? We're losing the defense that we all love so much.

Edit: And you still haven't answered my question. How much time do you invest on your Paladin? The people who are complaining here are the ones who dedicate their time and money to fund their main character, their Paladin.

Noticed, how all the complaints about pallies complaining are from people without pallies as their main avatar?
The paladin subsection has one of the most nicest micro-community by far, so when we're complaining, you know there's something wrong.
I wouldn't mind losing our defense if they make our sacrosanct spammable.

[quote=Pashmimi]You're kind of missing the point... We [i]did[/i] want changes, but not a complete change of basically what we are... Which is a tank... We never wanted any of this Kaiser-Raging Blow lovechild stuff, nor did we ask for less defense.[/quote]

Now you're just exagerating. All they did was to expand on the charges and the synergy between them, instead of sticking to one depending on the situations, which is already terrible. So far they get it right.

Get that ''kaiser-raging blow'' crap out of there.

[quote=SkullMasher]Oh... and that would that ''change'', you are all so eager to have, be... please do tell.

Also, he was right.[/quote]
You're kind of missing the point... We [i]did[/i] want changes, but not a complete change of basically what we are... Which is a tank... We never wanted any of this Kaiser-Raging Blow lovechild stuff, nor did we ask for less defense.

Edit: I notice that you've been posting in these "Paladin Update Sucks" topics a lot. Just being curious, but how much time do you invest on your Paladin?

[quote=PallyCookie]|
| V

Haha, alright there champ.
Nothing you typed in that preaching of yours co-relates to this thread. Sounds like generic Pro-"insert game company" rubbish.

First you tell people they're whiners when we're here discussing and complaining about changes that do not add to the play-style we've been enjoying thus far. Discussing... in the paladin sub-section... amongst the more dedicated paladins. Here you are, proving your idiotic claims to be false.

Then you accuse us of not being able to handle change. (lol what is with this argument lately, everywhere I go there is some drooling pro industry zombie who is ready to spew this at the earliest chance) Yet, I'd like to point out something.
Nexon gave us their first shot, and what are we asking for? Change on a positive note for the paladin community. (you know.. the people who effing play the class a lot investing money and time into it) Because we want Nexon to update on a fair basis, not ruin a class just for the sake of change. Sorry I don't concede to a stupid philosophy of being different to stand out with no practicality reasons.

How about we be appreciative when we get this current skill set changed to something we've really been desiring for in a change to paladins.
I'm sick of all the idiots coming from no-where who can't argue for their own sake or make a solid point.[/quote]

Oh... and that would that ''change'', you are all so eager to have, be... please do tell.

Also, he was right.

they should just keep palies the same but renew the animatios

[quote=PallyCookie]He clearly missed the entire point of our qualms with this revamp. Should just ignore him.[/quote]
You're clearly an idiot.

[quote=tanthalas007]Why are so many people whining...sounds to me like you want Nexon to never update the game again and let it die out. At least they are making an effort to update the game and give the old adventurer classes some new things to play with with all new animations and playstyles etc. Instead of complaining, how about being appreciative of the fact that Nexon even gives a single @#$! and continues to come up with new content. I'm sick of all the complaining.[/quote]
But... our defense...
And Blast looks like the lovechild of Raging Blow and Kaiser!

Why are so many people whining...sounds to me like you want Nexon to never update the game again and let it die out. At least they are making an effort to update the game and give the old adventurer classes some new things to play with with all new animations and playstyles etc. Instead of complaining, how about being appreciative of the fact that Nexon even gives a single @#$! and continues to come up with new content. I'm sick of all the complaining.

[quote=Bomber321]Unless we also get invincibility skills that cut through %hp based attacks, we cant be called invincible anyway.[/quote]

Biggest issue these days really...

Unless we also get invincibility skills that cut through %hp based attacks, we cant be called invincible anyway.

@KushiMushy:

I wish it were as easy as that.
Korean maplers complain on their forums and other related forums (Like we have Basil/SP/Leafre) and are read by the developers from KMS.
Hopefully the korean maplers have the same complaints as us because there's no way for us to complain towards GMS and make a change.

This isn't really comforting since [i]we[/i] really don't have a say on these changes unless KMS is looking from input from players across other versions. I just hope that the KMS players are just as disappointed (or maybe more) as we are.

LOL haters gonna hate and trolls... well u trolls go back to ur cave!
He only wants attention (u know who im talking about), he dont care if we are right or we are wrong, all he wants is make us angry about his stupid comments, so dont waste ur time with him.
We have the right to complain, i only wanted animations revamp and to move some skills like rush and more movement (we FINALLY got it), stance from earlier jobs(the same), bcuz when 4th jobs skills came to MS long ago, warriors were the only ones with stance and rush (now every single new class has some rush like skill in 2nd job so WTF? and when DS came out they had 100% stance to begin with... fair with us? dont think so), i complain about NL too bcuz only them had shadow partner and flash jump( now almost all the thiefs have SP and flash jump... well EVERYONE GOT IT), original adventurers are the most weak classes in every aspect of the game, bcuz everytime they release a new class they took some UNIQUE ability from us a gave them to the new OP classes better and earlier so thats why this game its so broken patch after patch.
Now they took away from us our defense(they gave us this role not so long ago) bcuz they trolled us with our "elemental role" when they made everysingle boss strong agaisnt elemental attacks (go to pink bean with a pally and u would understand) and it only works for normal mobs... who (high lvl player, 120+) in the blue hell trains in normal mobs?
We actually saw a couple of videos out there in tespia, bcuz if u only see the % numbers in paper sounds good, but its another history when u actually see it in video, our defense its nowhere near what it was, blast REALLY and i mean REALLY SUCKS!, we losed the % of damage that charges give us for some lame status bonus damage THAT DOESNT WORK ON BOSSES!, it looks like Void Elemental doesnt work as we expected so its crappy too (i had BIG expectations with this skill ), they made paladin expert and thats just a nerf, i mean why dont give those passives to ACB? and give the bonus of ACB to earlier jobs... u only hit 4 mobs in 2nd to 3rd job... >.<
Bring back divine shield to 4th and magic crash to 3rd, that will resolver A LOT of things... bring back power guard and take off that stupid page order, give us back our shield mastery % defense too, bcuz now the defensive class should b demon slayer or mihile.
I dont care about the new animations, most of them look good, but blast needs to be faster bcuz it looks great now(my opinion) but its wayyyy slower than before and i dont get why it has like a pre animation like if u are charging it, theres when it becomes the SLOOWWWWWNESSSS and it does less damage than the charges... WTF?
Im ok with my current damage as a Pally, the last revamp made blast stronger(well they actually bring back that damage without multiply the number of hits) and an ACB better, bcuz what nexon has been doing is increase the number of hits and lower the %damage the skill does(for all the explorers and some nerfed class) so they do the same damage with more hits... so u have more potential but ur damage remain the same , if they want to make us stronger they need to increase hits (if its really necesary or stop the high number of hits made by new classes) and increase the % damage a bit, i think its not that hard right?
Dont give me the role crap about being the tank and supporter, in the beginning white Knights (ya before 4th job came out) we didnt have any party ability, we were like not wanted in any party, but then they gave us this "tank/supporter" role and since then people just bring this BS and say "thats ur role in the party", well i thing this "role" thing only works for explorers(and maybe kanna or mihile in some way), bcuz tell me if im wrong but since the heroes (the 5 ones) came out along with the resistance, cannoneer, DB, novas, new cygnus knights and sengoku, they had no role! they are just attackers and since them every single class was that way, i think only phantom its a "support class" but let me guess, from do he gets all his support abilities? OH right from explorers.
We need a change but i only asked for a bit more of damage and some more useful skills, i want them to make the first jobs easier with new animations, bcuz being a warrior in early levels its a Pain in the As$, but now they changed that a bit, but they didnt need to nerf us, we are not an "attacker" (the role BS again) but at least dont make us weaker than we are right now...

Told ya guys didn't I?

[quote=chyeung360]I believe their 1v1 dmg output has been nerfed, but their mobbing capabilities remain the same[/quote]

that and we lost our "defensive side" Nexon still haven't added any new mechanics that make the unlimited bosses any more tankable. our mobbing abilities were bolstered, but at a price, now effectively we can only mob 5 enemies o...o

Omg Hero revamp will be part of RED? Awesome4^@#!@ This'll be my first time actually experiencing a revamp. I came back to MS sometime in December, completely forgot about Big Bang or something, didn't know that there was a small revamp, so i didn't know about any new skills and stuff like that. Boy, this'll be a great summer. ACA10PL0X

[quote=lazershock]Just to include my thoughts on this: I hope to god they don't mess with the dark knight revamp or the hero one.... I actually think those two are AMAZING and I don't want them changed

Paladins definitely deserve a buff since im fairly certain that post-revamp paladin is WEAKER than pre-revamp paladin (please correct me if im wrong though)[/quote]

I believe their 1v1 dmg output has been nerfed, but their mobbing capabilities remain the same

Just to include my thoughts on this: I hope to god they don't mess with the dark knight revamp or the hero one.... I actually think those two are AMAZING and I don't want them changed

Paladins definitely deserve a buff since im fairly certain that post-revamp paladin is WEAKER than pre-revamp paladin (please correct me if im wrong though)