General

I've had my BaM for awhile, and seeing all of this discussion is really cool, im wondering if all of these updates we are discussing aren't even possible for another year or so though

Anywho

TWISTER SPIN for the love of god this was my favorite skill too, bring this back in any fashion, but I'd prefer using it rather than a turret honestly. Add some boss dmg like someone said earlier so it's somewhat useful at bosses. Even give it a long cooldown if it's strong.
Something else I think would be cool is bring back a similar skill to body boost, I remember that was a really fun part of playing my BaM back in the day, waiting for that cooldown to end then seeing the range spike up.
I havent played my bam in some time but im getting back into it, did i see that we can't stack auras if there is another bam in the party? that sucks. I loved figuring out with the other person which auras we should use.
I think sweeping staff (do some people call it BkB? why?) should have no cooldown. I love using the skill cause it looks really cool and has a good range of attack, something we desperately need. I thought it was fine being able to use after FB, but no cooldown and no FB required would be so cool to have, as long as it isnt op in spamming it.
Our reaper skill is perfect as it is, the cooldown is fine for me, as @taintedzero mentioned its really strong, has a great range, and is activated automatically. Dark gene is also fine, keep that. Love the animation the range and damage.
In addition to greater range to the auras, I wish they were a little bit bigger on the ground around the character

Another note, even if twister spin cannot be added, I really think this class (and every class really) should have more than one attack that doesn't have a cooldown. It just makes gameplay stale.

u know what i just thought that itd be amazing if reaper's toggle was ON by default, wish it was there after logging in or dying
actually rly wish it was like evan's mir, always there

@taintedzero

Thanks for your input. I was leaning against the reaper cooldown, as you said, it's really op XD

As for your wishlist, passive status resist is on the list.
I'll add Ele reset to the list~
Fixed damage for blue aura is also on the list =3
I find that haste is already better than dark. Especially with a time limit. I'll add that to the list though.
As in.... Cast delay decrease? On the list if that's what you meant.

I completely agree with your analysis of BaM. Just a few tweaks, perhaps a few buffs =3 and I'll be able to die a happy man.

[quote=pikalachu]i feel like reaper should keep his CD, maybe reduce his CD by 2 seconds in the future[/quote]
[quote=revenants]Make Reaper attack more often(lowering counts needed for it to activate) or to make the level 150 without a cd.
[/quote]
[quote=ando2112]* Our level 150 Hyper is a little pointless in regards to the reaper soul being reduced, most people easily collect enough souls before CD activates..So Instead of less souls, how about the Hyper reduces (or removes) the CD on Reaper
[/quote]
[quote=aznflip]3) Decreased cooldown for reaper[/quote]
I like doing damage as much as the next guy, but let's be realists here, guys. I think you guys overlook how strong Reaper actually is: 380% over 12 lines. At 4560% dmg, that's 400% dmg stronger than Dark Gene - our ulti! Our spammable skill (Finishing Blow) is on par with most of the other mage skills damage wise, yet we have access to a ulti-dmg skill that automatically procs provided you kill 6 mobs/hit a boss 6 times within a 5 second frame. There's also no delay linked to your character when it's activated so you're free to move as it's cast. Unless you heavily decrease the damage and/or the number of lines, decreasing the current cooldown would lead to an incredible boost to DPS that's simply too op. 5 second cooldown is more than fair for this skill.

If you're looking at it from a perspective of utility as a mobbing move, I can see where you guys are coming from wanting something with a little more reach a little more often, but I don't think changing Grim Contract is the answer.

Anyway my final wishlist is:

- Slight boost to passive Status Resist
- Slightly more Ele Reset for Weakening Aura: 5%? Maybe 10%?
- Blue Aura Buff to include some fixed dmg resistance: Something like -10% for percent attacks
- Active Yellow Aura increase to +2 attack speed: buff that will make it a considerable option to Dark, which I'd guess 90% of current BaMs are kinda crutched into.
- Party Shield delay reversion

Overall: BaM's are in a decent spot despite my initial poor impressions of the class when the revamp came. Some minor tweaks would really solidify the class as a cool niche, yet viable mage that I wouldn't mind recommending.

@Ando2112

That's why you still have the option not to use GLA. As I said before, it'd be more damage, but less support, and vice versa. I think that it'd help a lot in general for BaM's. It opens up their versatility further.

@mageofbattles I don't think only one Aura could be affected by GLA, just in my head trying to make a code for that seems hard.

Being able to stack just 2 Auras would make us both more of a support and an attacker (If the added range on Auras is actually finally done). Using GLA always made me feel selfish, making sure only I got the buffs instead of the other 5 people I was with, and when you did that, you literally brang nothing else to the table in a party if you weren't a main attacker.

So I think not having GLA will make us more of a viable option when it comes to parties, especially if our Auras can go across the map.

@iceformation how do you think that having two auras would work? I think it'd be hard to get people to agree with both of the active auras being affected by grand light aura, but if only one's affected, and the other aura is active (buffing others) would it be considered op? We'd also have to discuss what would happen if drain or weakening aura was absorbed.

[quote=mageofbattles]Thank you @aznflip for your input.

Tbh, as an up close mage, I always thought of us as an attacking class. But this this isn't just my opinion, what would you guys think about turning BaM's a little further from supporting. Pre heaven revamp, as most of you know, BaM's would sacrifice party support with grand light aura. I think that we should have that option back. It perfectly fits the more damage less support, and vice versa.[/quote]

I agree. I think pre heaven, was nice because we had damage and speed, which is what made us what we were. Now we're crippled and we have to decide, damage over speed, or speed over damage. I'm pretty sure everyone knew right as that revamp happened that any other aura except dark, and maybe weakness aura? But overall I would like to be able to chose two auras, or have grand light aura.

I also wouldn't mind if it were our level 150 Hyper either. Our 150 hyper really isn't good as it is, just decreased reaper count, and two extra final blow hits, which if you can hit faster with grand light being that hyper, then it makes up for it completely while having added damage as well.

Thank you @aznflip for your input.

Tbh, as an up close mage, I always thought of us as an attacking class. But this this isn't just my opinion, what would you guys think about turning BaM's a little further from supporting. Pre heaven revamp, as most of you know, BaM's would sacrifice party support with grand light aura. I think that we should have that option back. It perfectly fits the more damage less support, and vice versa.

@mageofbattles: I understand the point you're making. That's exactly why I wouldn't mind moving the cool down strike Dark Genesis has now to twister spin, but I guess that would mean genesis won't be used, which is not really a solution. Perhaps adding some boss % on the skill, reduce the dark spirit cool down by a second or two or increase dark spirit damage when the skill is on cool down? Just give the players some incentive to use the skill if the skill's damage output cannot be made high enough to out-damage other skills. That's exactly what has been done with Dark Genesis so people would still use it, why not apply it to Twister Spin as well?
Right now there are only two attacking skills in 4th job (exluding hyper), there used to be three. Even if a significant amount of people would stick to only using Finishing Blow and Dark Genesis, I think there will be enough people that would enjoy being able to spice up their game-play by using a third skill, regardless of the damage output being a little bit worse.
Personally, I found the immobile version which pulled the mobs into your twister more fun to work with. At least keep the visuals of the immobile version, even if a reappearance would be mobile.

[quote=mageofbattles]That said, which one are you guys talking about, the one that you can move in, or the immobile one?[/quote]

I was happy with the immobile one, drawing in the enemies around you. Maybe increase it's attack or something to make it more of an option when attacking? To me it was a great mobbing skill, I also used it at Zakum for the arms when that posed a challenge.

@mageofbattles and @ando2112: Yes, we loss 10% crit rate. Specifically to mageofbattles: plenty of classes reach speed cap on their own. Bucc, Kaiser (I don't remember but I think they can hit 0), DB, and DS to name a few.

BaMs should either be mostly attack, some support or mostly support, some attack.

Mostly attack, some support
1) A bigger FB hit box
2) Bring back all the bonuses we loss (crit rate, max crit dmg, boss atk, atk speed, avoid, etc.) BaMs are going to be nerfed further, so it would be nice if they skipped that update for BaMs.
3) Decreased cooldown for reaper
4) Remove breaking speed cap (for some balance)

Mostly support, some attack
1) 25-50% element ignore (shareable)
2) Stackable auras. Either done by having multiple BaMs, or choose 2 or 3 at the same time, but not all.
3) Party shield should be a buff (can't be dispelled)

Both
1) 1/1 protection. This should have already been here for BaMs.

@killineye and @ando2112

The main reason why I wouldn't want twister spin brought back from how it used to be, is that during bosses, and most likely even during training. Most people won't use it. If it's returned as a turret, on the other hand, then people can see twister spin again, albeit for a different purpose. But if the revamped version isn't a go, I'll definitely fight for the original. That said, which one are you guys talking about, the one that you can move in, or the immobile one?

[quote=ando2112]Yeah another person that likes Twister Spin. Maybe the dream of bringing it back doesn't have to be a dream.[/quote]

I hope so

[quote=killineye]Twister Spin also used to be my most favourite skill, especially combined with blood drain for a quick recovery of health and awesomeness at the same time. I think that it would be really nice if that skill returned as suggested before in this thread. Personally, I wouldn't mind removing Dark Genesis for Twister Spin, if the 'final-attack-during-cooldown' would also be transferred to Twister.

Furthermore I found keeping a dark mark on boss monsters really difficult (perhaps it's my internet connection though). For bossing I usually try to teleport upwards to get the mark, perhaps the range for upward usage of dark shock inflicting dark mark could be somewhat bigger? Right now you practically have to stand inside the boss to inflict the mark.

Lastly I would really love to see some updated skill visuals on our blows. To me it feels like most BaM skills received an visual overhaul at some point in time, but the blow skills still look practically (if not exactly) the same as when BaM was released.

I'm looking forward to the results this kind of feedback will bring![/quote]

Yeah another person that likes Twister Spin. Maybe the dream of bringing it back doesn't have to be a dream.

@mageofbattles i feel like reaper should keep his CD, maybe reduce his CD by 2 seconds in the future but no CD reaper would be very OP.
we already attack fast as it is that killing 6 mobs is really not hard, and for bosses, the hyper is actually quite nice since it you only need to hi tthe boss 6 times instead of 12.
it can make a big difference for bosses such as magnus and Cvellum.

Twister Spin also used to be my most favourite skill, especially combined with blood drain for a quick recovery of health and awesomeness at the same time. I think that it would be really nice if that skill returned as suggested before in this thread. Personally, I wouldn't mind removing Dark Genesis for Twister Spin, if the 'final-attack-during-cooldown' would also be transferred to Twister.

Furthermore I found keeping a dark mark on boss monsters really difficult (perhaps it's my internet connection though). For bossing I usually try to teleport upwards to get the mark, perhaps the range for upward usage of dark shock inflicting dark mark could be somewhat bigger? Right now you practically have to stand inside the boss to inflict the mark.

Lastly I would really love to see some updated skill visuals on our blows. To me it feels like most BaM skills received an visual overhaul at some point in time, but the blow skills still look practically (if not exactly) the same as when BaM was released.

I'm looking forward to the results this kind of feedback will bring!

@mageofbattles

You're definitely right about us hitting the speed cap. Hitting the speed cap is something left for pro's or parties. If we all could hit the cap as easily as getting to 4th Job, then it would be redundant.
IF we get aura stacking back (Not something I particularly want) then it should be limited to having 2 Auras on at a time or something like that. I miss having drain as a skill, but it spices things up a bit.

Twister spin turrets sounds like a nice idea, But being able to turn into a spinning vortex of death made my gameplay great. Maybe one day we'll get it back, a man can dream.

@koolkasterkay

Ahh, I think I heard someone briefly talk about that, but they were vague, so I wasn't sure what they were talking about. I'll make sure to add it to the list.

Idk if some BaMs notice but the visual effects on Party Shield is bugged? Last I checked the visual disappears while the effect still remains with another 20 seconds from the hyper. This can interfere with bossing. Besides that No CD on BkB, longer aura ranges, some stacking auras, more EDI, and larger hitboxes on Dark Shock would be amazing. The new Twister spin idea sounds cool too. <3

Thanks for all of your replies! I'll respond to each of you top to bottom =3

@malefichent
I'll make sure to add it to the list! Though, with it being the new tele mastery skill, I can see why the hitboxes are as narrow as they are.

@momijii
I never looked at it that way. Perhaps the hyper should remain as is, but also have a new active effect that gets rid of the reaper Cd for the duration of the buff. @pikalachu would that be better than the longer duration?
Anyways, moving on to the next part of your post:
I've talked about our EDI (Elemental defense ignore) with a few people. I agree that as a mage we should have more than 10% EDI.
XD we're completely on the same page here. I was thinking of getting rid of the -damage intake% and converting it to -fixed attack%
I wasn't too sure what to do with party shield besides buffing it's fixed damage rate, and also reducing that terrible cast delay.
I didn't realize dark and weakening aura weren't affected by Combat orders. I'll add that to the list.

@VivaBasura
I assure you that no major damage changes (besides a possible EDI increase, and a twister spin return) have been suggested. Even if we implement stackable auras, I've thought up a system that won't allow any op combos. At the very most (if it's really needed) then having dark, haste or weakening on at the same time, won't be possible. Aside from that, it's range increases, animations being redone, bugs and cast delays being fixed.

@revenants
XD we can't all be as well known as Zelkova or ZeroByDivide
I have an aura range increase already listed, so don't worry too much about that.
I think the main reasons why BaM's don't reach attack speed cap is, I don't think any class should be able to hit speed cap on its own. Haste aura already allows us to break the attack speed cap as is. While that's slightly redundant when we can't hit cap on our own, there's still possible ways (Albeit expensive)
Party shield... As I've said, I think the most we can do is increase the fixed damage rate. Also, seeing as magnus's meteors are fixed damage, ignoring them altogether most likely won't happen.
I've had a few people either ask on of two things for sweeping staff 1. Keep it as is without the Cd coming from KMS and 2. Revert it back to how it was. I'd prefer for it to back to how it used to be without the Cd.

@ando2112
I haven't heard of the crit rate being reduced, myself, I use a crit rate ring atm to get me to 100% (or at least, upper 90's)
As for your twister spin longing (I miss it too T_T) I'm suggesting a return of it in the form of a turret (With a slower attack speed) that inflicts the dark shock mark. While It's not the original, I think it'd be a nice addition.

Sorry for the wall of text guys XD (I feel like I've been making a lot of those recently)

* A bigger range on Auras is definitely needed. (Something we were meant to get when we could no longer stack them)
* Our level 150 Hyper is a little pointless in regards to the reaper soul being reduced, most people easily collect enough souls before CD activates..So Instead of less souls, how about the Hyper reduces (or removes) the CD on Reaper
* I've heard a few BaM's being annoyed their Crit Rate was taken down during the balance unnecessarily? (Not so sure on this one, always had over 100%)
* I honest to god just want my twister back. I was fine when they removed being able to move with it. Fine again that we couldn't take advantage of being invincible for that second or two. But gone complete has just changed my gaming experience as a BaM. So Twister back would be excellent, but it's a long shot. ( I would even prefer a Twister 170 Hyper to the BKB Hyper)

Where are they getting these maple leaf council representatives? Another representative from my world that I've never seen before.
Anywho, changes that are NEEDED include:
A bigger range in auras(Same as above), so bossing as a party would be more flexible.
Give us +1 att speed in our Staff Expert or Spell Boost, simply because of how people who dont have enough to be spending +1speed ia/Speed infusion cant reach cap speed.
Definitely make party shield more relevant for bossing, take down delays for it and give it more buffs, perhaps make it work as intended and make it protect us against meteors too?
Make Reaper attack more often(lowering counts needed for it to activate) or to make the level 150 without a cd.
Lower BkB att % and make it without a cd(Make it similar to how Arans 170 hyper works maybe?)
Thanks for reading

Bigger range for auras.
A longer duration for the lvl 150 hyper would be nice (60 secs duration for 120 secs CD)
Make debuff aura hyper 20% ele ignore instead of 10%.
Make blue aura able to resist % HP attacks (10% is enough)
A rehaul of party shield can be nice, either make it give a buff to the party inside of it or make it a god mode skill for the party ( 30 seconds duration with a 4 minute CD)
Also make auras in 4th Job to be affected by combat orders.

That's pretty much it for me

im not sure what are MLCs of each job trying to do anymore, with the balance changes coming in winter the game should be better, im scared of GMS having their own balance changes as it seems like everyone is just trying to make their class op and i definately dont trust GMS gamechanging decisions
i hope GMS dont mess with each class' DPS and we can just stick with gameplay changes
[quote=malefichent]larger hit box on dark shock please.[/quote]
all my wishes could be reduced to just this ^

make our 150 hyper better. the cooldown on Reaper makes the decreased soul count a little silly and i don't think the extra hit on Final Blow really merits the cooldown it has as a result.

larger hit box on dark shock please.