General

[quote=FrothyFrog]boy i will abuse the sht out of your skillz

and i also have haste[/quote]

Perfect example of a troll

is that a new graphic for arrow rain? noooooooooooooooooo

[quote=AyyBabay]Well, l didn't say that NL's use Drain at bosses. Rather, l said that they use it at bosses that put cool-downs on your potions.

Also, the video is of... well, you. Perhaps find another? This makes your argument very biased.

As well, l know how the skill works. I've used it before; it's not exactly an old skill. My mistake on the Potion Plus thing, I used to play Wonderking. The skill Alchemy works the same as Potion Plus does, in Wonderking.

Anyway, once l see some other NLs (plural, fyi) say that they use Drain often, l'll take your argument into account. lt's not enough that one person is complaining about Drain being, pretty much, handed over to another class, while the majority of posters in the thread believe that the skill isn't quite the boon.
As l said: lf anything, we deserve this skill more than you do. We have low hp, just as you do. What we don't have is a skill that conserves potion use. You may say that we have Soul Arrow, but then l could just say you have Shadow Shifter. Either way, l disagree with your argument. Alchemy, Drain, Shadow Shifter, Shadow Star. No need to be greedy, now. [/quote]

I'm not complaining that bowmasters are getting drain. I'm just saying don't take the skill for granted thats all.

BowLords ftw?
i'm still waiting for thief reconstruction.

[quote=Zyrcant]Well, Nexon really screwed us over with WH, so it's only fair that BM get something in return. Most of the BMs don't even want those two skills anyways. But really, NLs overpower BMs, and if you guys got a hurricane-like skill, I don't know how unfair that could be.
The two classes are quite alike in most perspectives. I just kinda blame Nexon for creating all these stupid updates and creating a bit of hostility between the classes.[/quote]
doesn't tt have like the same rate of fire as hurricane?

[quote=illogik]well for one your statement has nothing to do with bossing which some solo boss fights (mainly bodyguards) will be affected, and two, training with puppet (prejump) is just more efficient, if you like to be less efficient in your training then thats all good[/quote]

Pre BB I trained at newts and skeles. Newts does not require puppet whatsoever and I can keep up with skeles using DB + bliz and only puppet when the mob is too big for me to handle.

[quote=Stealth2800]@Zyrcant
The LEAST Nexon could do, like I stated in the original post, is give us a quadruple throw skill. Or even a quintuple throw skill. I wouldn't mind, actually, if they gave us BETTER MOBBING.[/quote]

Ever think that NL have not gotten a skill that throws even more stars because you dont need it? NL's have always been the best class in terms of dmg so how about you quite whining and accept that for once your class is not gonna be on top anymore.

Auto aggro on puppet? That is... noob?
ive played my bowmaster since beta, and the big give away from noob bowmasters and pro ones was the effectiveness of how puppet was used. noobs never used it because they had no clue how to - im not really in favor of helping them out if they have a 4th job bowmaster and dont know half their skills capability.

This strengthening of the BM class has its downside, a big one. we will get destroyed by bandwagoners and everything will go back up again in price - 40mil bow 30% anyone?

as far as NL's go. your gameplay wont change, there will in all likelihood be a Patch for you guys too. we have had 6 years of a combination of being constantly ripped off, underpowered, nerfed and messed around with. this upgrade is long overdue. but in saying that - i still gon hate the bandwagoners... i see a smaller contingent of bowmasters currently in scania compared to 2 years ago, i prefer it this way. if people wanted to make wildhunters thats fine, wind archers fine. but marksmen and bowmasters that stuck to their class despite knowing their limited capacities compared to the new guys, they showed pride and i got respect for that. i dont care for the bandwagoners who will ruin everything and once again mess up the good name of bowmasters/marksmen

From what i keep hearing when a new class is better than a original class there is always rants about that new class and the original class gets pity or something, but when an original class gets buffed a lot a different class rants about it. People should just wait till everyone get's there own update and let things balance out the way it should be.

It's a good thing I learn to train without puppet... except at LHC with big mobs.

[quote=coolsmiley1]I'm not entirely sure how the new puppet works. I know elite puppet attacks and puppet now lure monsters without being attacked, but what else is there? If you don't get elite puppet, you could always just pretend puppet works the old way and attack then puppet behind. Unless there's something else that affects it.[/quote]

Heres the thing though, on maps like BGA and Co, you clear your attacking space so no monsters will get in your way when you boss.

When you put the puppet behind you, those mini-Mafia members 99% of the time will be hanging around it. If puppet starts to attack the Mafia, the Mafia will start re-spawning right in front of your attacks, or start walking into you. Which means, BGA and Co have higher chances of Stunning/killing you.

Elite Puppet isn't THAT bad in terms of training, especially, since I now have to make use of its aggression to collect mobs. But in other cases it may make some bossing less clean.

[quote=ChibiCross]If I'm wrong about puppet, I'll be happy enough to come back. Coming from a marksman perspective, I can definitely say I don't like the new forced bow master play style, without mob control. Really ruins the flow of bow masters (for me, since everyone likes different play styles ), since without DB (and without 1hko'ing everything), it's no longer a rush through with db/hurricane/inferno/puppet, clearing through platforms of time temple without stopping, for the most part
Interesting to see how ult inferno is though.[/quote]

I'm not entirely sure how the new puppet works. I know elite puppet attacks and puppet now lure monsters without being attacked, but what else is there? If you don't get elite puppet, you could always just pretend puppet works the old way and attack then puppet behind. Unless there's something else that affects it.

NLs are one of the best bossing classes in the game; they have always been at the top. Now that bowmasters get a small boost you get all pissy about how we're overpowered. If you think we're overpowered, start a bowmaster. No use in whining over skills that we got.

[quote=ChibiCross]That's actually a good point, I dismissed the idea of MB's healing being any useful. I guess it depends if we're still at the 2hko with 40% hp boost/how much the monsters deal now (also depending on the mastery level of spirit link). Probably much more useful for bow masters, since MB activates more and since you guys can pot in hurricane now, we have to be much more careful with pierce.
Hn, maybe I will actually come back when this patch comes. Seems interesting enough.[/quote]

Our play styles are being enhanced with these minor skill details.

[quote=orangeking11]I've played friends' BMs and I've always felt the opposite. It's nice to be able to hold down the button and just let arrows fly, but that's just not for me. I have too much energy to just sit there and hold the button lol. xD

Edit: @ChibiCross: It's just the "you don't know how hard we have it" joke. Complainers use it too much. Like I get Hermit/NL complainers that go around saying stuff like "oh you don't know how hard we unfunded players have it" and they go silent when I tell them that I'm as poor as most others out there. xD[/quote]

You're too used to the NL customs. Marksmen are going to be similar with double jump and what not. Similar as in we move around a lot.

@ chibi: Hurricane has a ridiculously quick starting time, faster than any other attack in the game. It's so fast drain arrow will be torture to use.

[quote=coolsmiley1]They probably won't use drain arrow because then they would have to stop hurricane to use it. If you ever played a BM, you would never want your finger off of hurricane. xD[/quote]

Yup. To me Drain Arrow is just too slow. In addition, most of the time I do not need to buy pots when I am only grinding (and pap everyday). If I don't need to buy pots, I don't need to worry about using pots. Lets not forget on maps like Temple of Time, for a Bowmaster, every other kill will be healing 300-400hp due to Mortal Blow.

[quote=coolsmiley1]They probably won't use drain arrow because then they would have to stop hurricane to use it. If you ever played a BM, you would never want your finger off of hurricane. xD[/quote]

I've played friends' BMs and I've always felt the opposite. It's nice to be able to hold down the button and just let arrows fly, but that's just not for me. I have too much energy to just sit there and hold the button lol. xD

Edit: @ChibiCross: It's just the "you don't know how hard we have it" joke. Complainers use it too much. Like I get Hermit/NL complainers that go around saying stuff like "oh you don't know how hard we unfunded players have it" and they go silent when I tell them that I'm as poor as most others out there. xD

[quote=orangeking11]I wouldn't say > Hurricane. Both are built, like the jobs, to excel in different ways. Hurricane + AFA, SE, etc. is obviously built for single target power. TT+SP, etc. is built for quick little bursts but also doesn't hinder mobility. xD

Edit: @icywarrior4: Drain has always been on a by-player basis. I know some NLs that have never used it, but I use it for almost all of my HP recovery needs. Mowed over 999 Oblivion Monks without using a single HP pot thanks to Drain (along with Storm, Web, etc). So I'm sure some BMs will and others won't use it. xD

And the TS actually makes me proud to be a NL. All the complainers do. It just shows that not everybody has what it takes to be a NL and enjoy it. Just look at how much he relies on TT by his wording. He's falling apart inside because of the Chaos formula nerf. And every hit on a complaining Sin/Hermit/NL is a critical blow. It makes it fun for us NLs that play with the complainers on the forums. Watch 'em slowly bleed. xD[/quote]

They probably won't use drain arrow because then they would have to stop hurricane to use it. If you ever played a BM, you would never want your finger off of hurricane. xD

[quote=Caairn]Dude, y would you get a hurricane like skill O.o triple throw+shadow partner+claw booster>hurricane
because hurricane is not affected by booster QQ[/quote]

I wouldn't say > Hurricane. Both are built, like the jobs, to excel in different ways. Hurricane + AFA, SE, etc. is obviously built for single target power. TT+SP, etc. is built for quick little bursts but also doesn't hinder mobility. xD

Edit: @icywarrior4: Drain has always been on a by-player basis. I know some NLs that have never used it, but I use it for almost all of my HP recovery needs. Mowed over 999 Oblivion Monks without using a single HP pot thanks to Drain (along with Storm, Web, etc). So I'm sure some BMs will and others won't use it. xD

And the TS actually makes me proud to be a NL. All the complainers do. It just shows that not everybody has what it takes to be a NL and enjoy it. Just look at how much he relies on TT by his wording. He's falling apart inside because of the Chaos formula nerf. And every hit on a complaining Sin/Hermit/NL is a critical blow. It makes it fun for us NLs that play with the complainers on the forums. Watch 'em slowly bleed. xD

[quote=AyyBabay]@Newbane: As l said, most NL's probably don't use it in most situations. The only situations l can think of is a poor NL, who is very frugal when spending his/her money on potions, or item space, or when fighting a boss who doesn't allow potions to be used for an interval of time, after it has been used. Besides, NL's have Shadow Shifter. That's basically a miss for any monster, 50% of the time. If anything, we need this skill more than your class does.

Are you forgetting that you have a skill called Shadow Stars that allows you to carry less stars? And besides that, l'm sure after having 8-12 inventory spaces filled, you must have plenty of space for another 2-3 rows of potions.

*EDIT*
Oh, did I forget to mention that you have Potion Plus? That basically makes your whole potion argument nil.[/quote]

lol are you kidding me? You don't have to be poorly funded or cheap to prefer drain over potting. You give shadow shifter way to much credit. I mean its usefull but don't forget that our luk avoidability is messed up, I have maxed ss and I still get hit pretty often. I personally like to have 2 or 3 use items that are not stars, such as return scrolls attack potions (enegizers) and pet food. Drain saves my ass tons of times because drain heals faster then potting, plus it deals a decent amount of damage especially with expert throwing star handling. It doesn't delay my attacking the slightest bit. Also its Alchemy not potion plus. All that means is that I can use a soda pop instead of reindeer milk to heal (cheaper and more effective potions). Shadow stars drains 200 stars pet cast and at max level only lasts for 3 minutes. You also don't max shadow claw until your in your 150-170s because there are a lot more usefull skills out there. I agree shadow stars helps a lot but it still not a perfect skill. Here is a video demonstrating the use of all the skills mentioned above and shows how drain can help greatly conserve potions. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lIfhZNxGrw

PS* You don't used drain as your main source of hp while bossing. It helps you last longer and it helps when you get pot locked. But other then that you pot via potions. Unless the boss 1 hit ko's me I tend to use drain. Also if a boss uses 1/1 I heal with my pot and any remaining hp not healed I use drain. Its very effective and usefull. So don't hate, because you honestly have no idea what your talking about. Oh yeah I don't know if you knew this but thief drain is not like BaM or aran drain. Its not a passive heal its a 1 time throw that pretty much heals you back to full health while dealing a good amount of damage, and being a fast skill that doesn't really delay you it's pretty awesome.

U jelly

[quote=AyyBabay]Lol, l like that comeback.

@TS
Nonetheless, Decent SE is still powerful. Which brings me back to this: We get two petty skills inspired by another class, while [b][i]everyone[/i][/b] can potentially get (no pun intended) Decent SE gloves. Yes, it may be expensive to get, but anyone is able to get it. I rest my case here. I suggest you stop QQing because you're fighting a battle that has way too many views, opinions and disagreements involved. Your opinion will only be one of many, in the end. And in my opinion: You're crying over something so petty. I'm sure a lot of NL's don't even use drain that often, so crying over the fact that another class has its similar effects is ridiculous.[/quote]

lol Actually drain is used more often then you think. The whole reason we NEED drain is because we need to sacrifice item space for throwing stars. BM get soul arrow there for you have tons of space to keep potions. I use drain almost every time I get hit considering Nls also have relatively low hp and usually get 2-3 KO'd from most high leveled monsters and like 1-2 hit from bosses, and its very convenient to use because it hits a good 150k damage and it heals me to full hp. It is also easily incorporated into our training, and an all around very useful skill.

[quote=coolsmiley1]I remember when NLs used to be top dog. Archers didn't complain.[/quote]

I attract complainers of all jobs for all issues for some reason. Back at that time, I had my share of BMs/MMs spamming "you just pick dat class cuz it OP" and "you not a real class" at me. xD

Just imagine how BMs have reacted to WHs and magnify. xD

Edit: Oh, and posting here in the Bowman section got PMs saying "take your fake job back to the thief section." They were funny, but that's just a No. xD

@BatHatCat: Stop spyin' on me. xD

[quote=orangeking11]Sorry Bowmen, there's just too many complainers to fit in the Sin/Hermit/NL section. And I'm often too mean on their ideas too, especially the Hurricane one (seriously, gross). xD[/quote]

I remember when NLs used to be top dog. Archers didn't complain.

The avoid was a bit much, the puppet Hp as well, but other than they've gotten a decent buff that they deserve

Would it be fair or unfair if Double Jump got a cooldown?

Lol, what do NLs have now...TT...thats it.

My brother's Ranger will outdo my NL. I knew this would happen. And still I lounge in Henesys for fame..

I'm not even a Sin and I agree this time. Bandits and DB's were along the thief line so I saw those copies coming. But for archers now? That makes no sense whatsoever.

I love how the classes that used to be OP are complaining about how the classes that used to "suck" back in the days (For how long now? 5 years before BB came out last year? MS has been out for 6 years now) are finally getting stronger lol. I have yet to see a WH complain about how the regular archers are getting more upgrades to match up to them.

On top of that, you aren't the only ones that have some of your skills jacked versus the other classes that had theirs stolen in larger quantities. E.g: WHs from regular archers. Did I forget to mention that Shadow Stars technically works just like Soul Arrow AND you have a higher base critical with SE? BMs are the only ones that have Drain Arrow in Jump. You aren't going to have everything for your class, it'd be nice for MMs to have AFA but that would slightly throw things out of balance if they do get that.

You will get your updates eventually, just chill off.

People need to consider the fact that skills take time to max. A BM will probably take ages to hit its full potential, having to max BE, Hurricane, AFA, Spirit Link, Marksmanship, and Illusion step, while a NL can start owning like a boss with just Triple Throw maxed (as you said, this is your only attack and shows how quickly you can start dishing out damage).

Also, if anyone has actually played a WH, you will know that WH jump is definitely inferior to FJ. And isn't that the one that BM/MM/WA are getting? And my Aran will probably have better mobility than my BM with the super beastly Combat Step + Jump anyway, lol. Also, other classes taking SP isn't too big of a deal, I mean, your play style hasn't changed, and you don't have a buddy called WH stealing your Hurricane (Lol, taking that WH Jump in return for Hurricane).

@orangeking11: Nexon's attempt at weeding out those who are only in for the damage?

[quote=jyyk]
What happened? [/quote]

People signed up to be NLs that just didn't have the right ideas of the job. They relied on being the top on DPM charts and use two skills, FJ and SP as sole/main reasons to play the job. And they complained about throwing stars being repetitive and boring. It's a house of cards built to crumble. xD

But there are many NLs that are perfectly happy for Warriors, Magicians, and Bowmen so far. The Jump patches are solid stuff. But until we get our turn, it's gonna be time to filter out the dirt. When we say we need a restructure, we mean it - the players complaining now really gotta go and let us die-hards steer this ship through the storm. Might sound harsh, but it's just so very clear who's got it and who doesn't. xD

Edit: Sometimes we even have to remind people that throwing stars all day and being the best at it and having superb freedom of mobility is what makes us unique - the complainers are that bad. xD

Edit: OP is so hostile in his posts that I removed my response of some sincerity...
I miss pre Bigbang - when NL and BM used to compliment each other when SE came out as NL apparently pwns with SE.
What happened? everyone is out for dmg and QQ whenever they see someone else get something for once.
Every class goes thru some uphill and downhill. Thieves are gonna get their limelight soon.

[quote=kratos7777] You guys deserve a revamp too aswell as the pirates. [/quote]

A revamp for Thieves and Pirates will come eventually, but we NLs deserve a waiting period. Complainers are going crazy and hating on everyone and spewing out the worst ideas for job balance (I love Avenger, but some are crying out to nerf it just so they can get a TT buff. Saddest joke ever). I think the best cure is a dose of waiting. Get people to calm down/quit. xD

[quote=orangeking11]I agree with this post. A mini-jumper is not FJ. People need to find a new term instead of just calling any new mobility skill a FJ skill, because all these others just keep on thinking every new mobility skill is a FJ clone when they're not. xD

And a key to NL mobility has always been freedom of mobility. Unless Hurricane gets taken away or changed in mechanics, that Hurricane walk is still dreadful in comparison to TT fly 'n' spam when it comes to freedom of mobility. It's also what keeps NLs different from Shads and DBs in mobility as well - we don't have those skills that make movement choppy/hindered. xD[/quote]

You're right. I always enjoyed it when I saw a Hermit or NL coming through.

First comes the stars, followed by some random numbers and a dead cry, the sillence, and then followed by a 1 second screen of a character which literaly flew into the next portal.

I think there need to be more respect towards other jobs. Not just the hate and complaining. You guys deserve a revamp too aswell as the pirates.

[quote=Eolias]Why are people suggesting that archers will now have better mobility then a NL. The double jump they get is exactly the same as the WH one, which is pretty bad in comparison to FJ, apart from it's vertical height. With 190% speed and double jump, a NL can fly by me with just 140% speed and FJ, easily.

Archers have long needed a mobility skill and it's great they're getting one.[/quote]
I agree with this post. A mini-jumper is not FJ. People need to find a new term instead of just calling any new mobility skill a FJ skill, because all these others just keep on thinking every new mobility skill is a FJ clone when they're not. xD

And a key to NL mobility has always been freedom of mobility. Unless Hurricane gets taken away or changed in mechanics, that Hurricane walk is still dreadful in comparison to TT fly 'n' spam when it comes to freedom of mobility. It's also what keeps NLs different from Shads and DBs in mobility as well - we don't have those skills that make movement choppy/hindered. xD

[quote=Stealth2800]Forgot to include that archers also get a shadow shifter like skill. Really, now?

EDIT:
@hollowedazn
I just found out that Night Lords, including me, are losing even more skills to other jobs. Therefore, I believe I have the right to post here. Once Night Lords get Hurricane, I'll shut up. /sarcasm at Hurricane, but still. >_>[/quote]

Well that would be intresting, lets give everyone SP, see how that turns out.... sarcasm at SP

I definitely wanted a stance more than a fj clone, seems kinda unnecessary if we're breaking the speed cap now.

Wanna feel worse?

Night Lords were originally considered the fastest class in the game... the one with the best mobility. Now, with this update, it'll be archers.

Why, you ask? Simply put, their 1st job mega-buff lets them go over the natural speed cap of 140, peaking out at 160. That means that, not only do they now have FJ, but they even run faster than you.

Of course, I still don't see the point of archers getting Double Jump when they can't fire in the air...

[quote=Stealth2800]Forgot to include that archers also get a shadow shifter like skill. Really, now?[/quote]

We had that skill since big bang. lol

Nls need Hurricane.
lol jk

OT: I hope you guys can see that there are still some respectful NLs out there Like orangeking11. Not sure how long he been looking after our class, but i can be 100% sure that he'll never stop

BaMs can drain... buccs can drain... arans can drain.. NWs can drain, and with that skill, shadowers can have the ability to drain if they were a UA or did the really hard quest

lol @ "our skills"

[quote=razormana] im not suggesting Hurricane or anything to that effect, that would just be idiotic, i just think they need a mobbing move put into 2nd job and upgrade some of the 4th job skills that are useless like the ninja skills.[/quote]

Your kind of thought leaves open ends for idiotic ideas for people to spread. Just wait and see. Suggestions/ideas not required. xD

@orangeking11: im not suggesting Hurricane or anything to that effect, that would just be idiotic, i just think they need a mobbing move put into 2nd job and upgrade some of the 4th job skills that are useless like the ninja skills.

[quote=razormana]IMO all the NL's need to stop QQing
[/quote]

It's mostly Sins, Hermits, newer NLs, and some dudes that shouldn't be in the job. In-game, all my NL friends are cool with it. A mini-jumper and sharing a skill we love isn't an issue. I honestly have no idea how these complainers are in-game, but if they're anything like the "Shadwagon" complainers I've met, sheesh. xD

And I don't think any ideas on how a NL revamp will go would help either. It tends to spread bad ideas like the "Hurricane for NLs" garbage. xD

IMO all the NL's need to stop QQing, when they get updated i am expecting:
1) avenger to be moved down to second job, dmg drop but still an earlier mobbing move.
2) disorder to be removed and replaced with a skill that boosts base luck and dex
3) a new mobbing skill to be added into 3rd job, some thing along the lines of multiple stars thrown that hit one monster each, hits 4-6
4) triple throw update or move to a lower job, with a damage boost.
5) Ninja ambush + ninja storm removal and replaced with more useful skills. Or a new knock-back skill.
6) Shadow partner upgrade, Increased crit rate or stance with a boost in damage output.
Can't really think of anything else, DB and Shad don't really need an update as they have/are being upgraded before Jump.

[quote=osiji]hmm you have a point there. Jump lasting a long time would defeat the purpose of the connotation of the name for these situations lol[/quote]

But there is one nice thing about the name - Complainers, Jump! off my job please. xD

Edit: TS: As a NL, I'm happy that complainers like you exist. Impatient, whiny complainers with crap ideas on how to make things "fair" make good dog food.* Calm yer horses or get into the grinder already. xD

Edit2: *Kerning City is home to the factory that produces the Pet Food we Maplers use to feed our beloved pets. Made up of 100% freshly ground complainers. xD

[quote=GaMerBoi15]I understand why you are mad, but archers never had a mobility "skill" to begin with. Every job has a mobility skill: mages with teleport, pirates with that weird floating thing, and even warriors with the rush skill allows them to speed through maps while training. Sure thrust gives us speed, but walking around across a very large map regardless of how much speed you have is time consuming and tedious. I agree that this DJ skill is a little weird perhaps Nexon should have given Archers a "dashing" skill instead? But needless to say I'm very happy. About the arrow drain thing: We needed some kind of skill that will compensate for our low hp so I guess this was the only creative solution that Nexon could come up with. So blame the creative minds at Nexon for running out of ideas.

I've always though NL were strong to begin with. You guys have terrific mobility, one of the best, and your mobbing skill is IMO strong.[/quote]

NL are not strong. Stop believing the stereotype.

We are not strong in mobbing. I do low damage and im average funded.

[quote=osiji]Lol i see what you mean i don't doubt a revamp coming for thieves/pirates as when you look at buccs even after jump update, besides the solo capabilty in terms of damage and attack speed, to put it bluntly they suck. But what i feel is that it won't be part of the "jump update". But maybe something later.[/quote]

I'm sure Nexon split it because they didn't want something named "Jump!" to last 5 months. xD

[quote=osiji]If i'm correct, i don't think thieves or pirates have a "jump" update, as the jump update was meant to revamp the beta classes of maplestory (mages,warriors,and archers)[/quote]

It's deemed inevitable by most that the classes will always be in a cycle of updates. Sooner or later, it's gonna roll. xD

But the longer we have to wait, the better we get to see who's got it and who doesn't. xD