basilmarket

zxodinxz

if you've watched a lot of games then you would see why. SC1 was a lot more balanced than SC2 thats for sure. But its all completely pointless to argue because sc2 is the here and now. Just the release of sc2 was huge for esports in general. Trying to get pro gaming to just suddenly become huge using really old games isnt exactly a good way to attract new money. Plus there is always the fact that the sc1 pros who hate sc2 could potentially just be stuck on over a decade of imprinting for how the game should be.

Reply March 10, 2011 - edited

Coojo

Quadruple warpgate all the wayy

Reply March 10, 2011 - edited

zxodinxz

Protoss
1v1 Masters
Strategies depend on both the race im playing and what they're doing.

I like to fast expand as much as possible but i find that a lot of people who mass ladder, which sadly makes up the majority of players, stick to crap 1 base all ins every game and assume ability is present. Especially true with the Terrans i play x.x every 10 games i play vs terran im 3 rax rushed with stim and marauder slow 4 times, 2-3 Thor + ALL scvs while mules mine money and they're spam repaired(really difficult to fight off with the 250mm cannons upgraded) 3 times, Banshee, Raven, Tank, Marine mix Rushed with PDD and seige, which is a little more advanced of a build to pull off but extremely effective if done properly at least one time. Actually i'll call that one just a huge 1 base all in. It works or you lose to the Player who has been on 2 bases for 5 minutes. There is also one person in every 10 who makes a bunch of marines off 2 rax and then sends all his scvs as a meat shield and just hopes he wins. Finally 1 person who plays a straight up game.

Not too many Z players go Mass lings or baneling busts or 7 roach rushes anymore (probably because they dont want to get into a habbit of strategies that all lose to 1 terran Bunker behind a wall off) I like forge FE and a cannon block on the ramp depending on the map and the timing of their spawning pool and first hatch. But I would typically only do that if they went for an FE before pool because this way i can still go gateway first before i scout what they're doing and then instead of getting the early gas then core after gateway if they arent getting a pool i can get the forge before gas and core and i would have the time to have another pylon somewhere it wouldnt be scouted easily and put the forge there so they only scout the gateway and assume no cannons are coming. The forge build time is pretty dam low and you only need it to finish when the pylon block wall off finishes so you can subtract the time it takes to build a pylon as well making this strategy have a very small amount of time required to actually pull off. Plus you would naturally be able to afford the 3 pylons for the wall off after the early forge since your not taking any probes off the line for gas, or building an assimilator, all your crono boost is being used on your nexus since you dont need it for warp gates or units and you can delay the core when the gate finishes.

Protoss vs Protoss may as well be the exact same as the average bronze league game. at least 90% of games will be decided by a variety of 1 base cheeses I never ever ever fe in pvp because i just dont see a way to defend it from the impending 4 gate rush 2 minutes later before the expansion has even started to pay for itself. Even good games of PvP are usually done by tripod wars. I have more collosus looks like you lose. Not that good games in pvp aren't possible. Just pretty well all mirror matches have a large amount of people who just find it extremely boring and want out of the game win or lose asap.

But there is no perfect strategy your just going to find in detail somewhere on a forum. You might come accross a couple you like but your execution, timing and decision making is whats going to make you a better player.

My favourite build personally is 1 base carrier rush into losing my whole $!@#ing base but day[9] made me do it.

Reply March 10, 2011 - edited

CrayonScribble

[quote=Che183]Real men Proxy Gate and feed off of the sweet tears of their vanquished foes.[/quote]

That makes oGsMC a real man!

Reply February 25, 2011 - edited

Che183

Real men Proxy Gate and feed off of the sweet tears of their vanquished foes.

Reply February 25, 2011 - edited

CrayonScribble

[quote=ThirdReich]5 merines? bro your supposed to keep building even while building banshees you dont win the game your supposed to slow down his gathering[/quote]

Okay you keep building marines marauders and SCVs while teching to banhsees. I'll look forward to seeing them around the 10 minute mark.

Reply February 25, 2011 - edited

tyuiop67890

@CrayonScribble:

Kk, I'll take your word of advice 8D

Thanks, I still suck at the game .

Reply February 25, 2011 - edited

CrayonScribble

[quote=ThirdReich]I loled at observers Bro i have them out at 8:00 your going to rush observers just 4 that bro?[/quote]

Obviously duhr? Protoss sends one probe to your front door at 6:30 minutes , sees no seige tank, less than 5 marines and 0-2 marauders and a bunker. HMMMMM I wonder what build he's going....?

Reply February 25, 2011 - edited

CrayonScribble

[quote=t0ester]6 pools are so easy to defend, with proper scouting.
Banshee rush, i'll have observers with stalkers by the time u get thes, might even gas steal u
MM, i'd probably already scouted that you have a reactor with 3 rax.
MMM, i'll go HT.
DT, have a few cannons up, forget about it.

@ Ultimateblade

Well it also rarely depends, if he's going for a 6 pool and i havent scouted out the map of shakuras plateau, im pretty much screwed. I can try to wall in on the expo ramp, with cannons behinds the forge/gateway. But it'll require a bit of micro to pull it off.[/quote]

6 pool is damn hard to stop on short distance maps. His 6 pool gets there, you use your pylon to wall off. He starts to take down your gateway - it pretty much goes down. Lings flood in. Ownage.

Even HuK lost to TLO when he 6pooled. If someone good 6 pools right, you will need to pull probes off the line to fight.

Reply February 25, 2011 - edited

t0ester

[quote=ThirdReich]I loled at observers Bro i have them out at 8:00 your going to rush observers just 4 that bro?[/quote]

um, observers dont take 8 minutes to come out? Atleast i dont rember it takes that long. I would know if you went banshees or not.

Reply February 25, 2011 - edited

t0ester

[quote=ThirdReich]6 pool
Banshee rush
MM
MMM
DT

Nuff said[/quote]

6 pools are so easy to defend, with proper scouting.
Banshee rush, i'll have observers with stalkers by the time u get thes, might even gas steal u
MM, i'd probably already scouted that you have a reactor with 3 rax.
MMM, i'll go HT.
DT, have a few cannons up, forget about it.

@ Ultimateblade

Well it also rarely depends, if he's going for a 6 pool and i havent scouted out the map of shakuras plateau, im pretty much screwed. I can try to wall in on the expo ramp, with cannons behinds the forge/gateway. But it'll require a bit of micro to pull it off.

Reply February 25, 2011 - edited

RushOfDawn

Main Race - Zerg
Strategies - I'd rather not say or I'd get countered if someone on basil wants to play me.
Rank - Masters 1v1 Diamond 2v2&3v3, Bronze 4v4.

Reply February 25, 2011 - edited

Srish

Race: Protoss
Platinum league
Builds:
Against Terran- 1gate FE, 2gate robo, 2/3 gate stargate
Against Zerg- 3gate sentry expand, 3gate stargate, 3gate robo, forge FE
Against Protoss- 4gate, 3stalker rush robo, 3gate robo, 3gate stargate, 3gate blink stalkers

I guess these are what the opening builds would be called. I just have a game plan for early game and transitions and mid game and late game.

Reply February 25, 2011 - edited

t0ester

[quote=CrayonScribble]Firstly, you can't expand well off a 3rax. Your expansion will be up at around 11 minutes and you will be unable to produce off all 3 barracks as you are spending money building scv/command centre/refineries. You don't want to transition off 3rax - you want to end the game right there in you 9 minute timing push.

So 3 rax expansion works like this 14 minutes to get a saturated expansion, no tech apart from marines and mauraders and a factory just finished.

Why not do a 2 rax expansion if you're planning to expand? 14 minutes, 4 rax 1 starport up. Expasion fully saturated[/quote]

We should be friends.

OT; Depending on map and race.

Hypothetically speaking,
Map:
Shakuras Plataue
Race: Protoss

Game: PVZ
Build: 1 gate expand, then follow up with a forge and 4 gate. I usually use sentries and a few lots to depend the expo ramp and a 1-2 well placed cannons to defend/

Reply February 25, 2011 - edited

CrayonScribble

[quote=tyuiop67890]Hence, expansions.

I usually go 3 rax in the beginning, and eventually lead up to expanding and what not.

Again, that's why I scout for starport/factory. With sight, I should be able to take out his tanks.
I don't do these things all concretely, I adjust.[/quote]

Firstly, you can't expand well off a 3rax. Your expansion will be up at around 11 minutes and you will be unable to produce off all 3 barracks as you are spending money building scv/command centre/refineries. You don't want to transition off 3rax - you want to end the game right there in you 9 minute timing push.

So 3 rax expansion works like this 14 minutes to get a saturated expansion, no tech apart from marines and mauraders and a factory just finished.

Why not do a 2 rax expansion if you're planning to expand? 14 minutes, 4 rax 1 starport up. Expasion fully saturated

Reply February 25, 2011 - edited

tyuiop67890

[quote=CrayonScribble]Firstly, all your strategies are 1 base-all ins.
Secondly, you cannot support 3 Rax, tech lab factory for tanks off 1 base.
Thirdly, how do you expect to contain a terran player with tanks? If he has 1 tank on the high ground your contain will fail. If he has any sort of army - he could stim and take out everything of yours before your contain finishes. He could even nuke your tank line if he so felt like it.[/quote]

Hence, expansions.

I usually go 3 rax in the beginning, and eventually lead up to expanding and what not.

Again, that's why I scout for starport/factory. With sight, I should be able to take out his tanks.
I don't do these things all concretely, I adjust.

Reply February 25, 2011 - edited

WinterWish

[quote=CrayonScribble]He's in the practise league, it'll be 40 stalkers vs 10-15 roaches - he'll be 2 base protoss vs 1 base zerg. Yes, nerly all zergs in the practise league 1 base, even if they 2 base - 2 base protoss beats 2 base zerg. And zerg can't take their third due to the destructable rocks. Practise league remember?

Stalkers are also pretty decent vs roaches - remember stalkers actually do additional damage to roaches as they are armoured.[/quote]

yeah i keep forgetting practice league.