General

Dude, go read up on how tanks actually WORK in wow.

When you tank, you take the attention of absolutely everything in the fight to prevent it damaging anyone else, while your damage dealers kill them. THAT is tanking. Surviving longer than everyone else, to nobody's benefit but your own =/= tanking. it's nothing to do with whether heroes can deal the same damage or not. It's nothing to do with survivability.

[b]MS DOES NOT SUPPORT TANKING.[/b] It simply cannot be done. In ANY rpg, a tanking class supports it's team by providing a role of either weakening enemies for the weaker units to pick them off, by the classic version of doing so in wow, or by eating damage in an actual useful manner, i.e: reducing the damage everyone takes, redirecting damage to the tank, etc.

How many of these features does MS support? Oh, that's right. None of them. In ms, 'tanking' is merely being in the same room and taking less damage. But if you're the only one standing in the room when a boss dies, what good is it to the group? Exactly. You're just the guy that uses less pots, and gives people CO. And that's IF you happen to be well connected, or are the best on your server. Turning pallies into 'tanks' was largely a superficial move on nexon's part. And it actually worked. lol.

EDIT: oh, here: [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_%28gaming%29]Tanking[/url] You'll see that MS paladins DO have features you would attribute to a tank. But the CRUCIAL one that is missing is that it has absolutely NO effect on anyone else BUT the paladin doing it. Therefore, no, tanking in ms does NOT work.

Instead of buffing Hero's, let's buff Dark Knights so we can AT LEAST be on par with the other warrior.
And warriors aside, how about nerfing resistance and buffing mages?

@TheShinji: lol hold on, back up..are you..confirming your assurence because you play wow..when this is MS?..dude..im not trying to insult you in anyway but, i mean your setting yourself up bro..

lol its not the truth, heroes dont have the best damage, paladins have better DPM than heroes BECAUSE of their defense, elemental advantage plus DS and CO and all that good stuff just adds insult to injuy for heroes lmao so..what are you talking about again?

P.S. what do u mean you cant tank on MS wth do you think tanking 1 dmg from bosses while everyone else takes 1-5k dmg is? just because tanking isnt like it is in wow doesnt mean its not tanking...(maybe cuz their two different games, GASP! hmmm.)

[quote=yokaih]I should smack the...-_- sigh..dude if u think that then ur very..naive.-[/quote]

It's not naivety, it's the truth. Paladin's defensive abilities ONLY support the paladin. Tanking doesn't work. Believe me, I do it on wow, and in no way, shape, or form, can you tank on MS.

@SilentXynh: Oh ok really I didn't realise base was 20%.

And lmao yeah there's literally no point in maxing Panic atm (other than for the novelty factor and in case they buff it later).
Coma isn't that much better either, esp as you go further into 4th job.

[quote=Jinghang]No I just want higher mastery. Paladins get 95% mastery or something, DrKs get 90 or 95% mastery, we're left at 60%? Great.
Also rage should stack with pots.

And def. Panic induce darkness.
But that's about it, I don't really mind not using Coma/Panic much.[/quote]

Pallies get 94% with CO, DrK get 90%, Heroes get 70%.
Base mastery for melee is 20%, mastery is +50%.
I agree with making Panic and Coma slightly more useful then they are right now.
Ever since Crusaders got Brandish the finishers aren't used anymore.
I lost motivation to play my Crusader after they made it into a Brandish-spamfest.

No I just want higher mastery. Paladins get 95% mastery or something, DrKs get 90 or 95% mastery, we're left at 60%? Great.
Also rage should stack with pots.

And def. Panic induce darkness.
But that's about it, I don't really mind not using Coma/Panic much.

Enrage can divide its damage upon the monsters hit?
Just like the more monsters you hit on an Aran, the less damage you do.
So with enrage, the more monsters you hit, the less damage added.
So it could be 60% / # of Monsters hit?
so 30% each monster if your hitting 2 monsters

I think Panic and Coma could be combined to one Combo Finisher or Combo Blow or something...
Damage of Panic with Mob of Coma. Both Darkness and Stun... It would become more useful.

People don't usually want Rage in boss runs because of Apples/Stews.
a %Damage would be nice.
Possibly make Enrage 20% damage and still Mob would be nice :O
I'd say get rid of Coma/Panic, I just got them because I had no where to put my spare points >_> They are useless usually.

A lot of people would disagree.
It's annoying to cast Enrage then canceling it whenever your faced with a mob.
I guess at least we have it >_>

Make them do +1m damage and nerf the parties damage to 1s. That should just about do it.

1. 10% damage probably isn't as useful as 20 attack to most people
2. Other 2 Warriors have to pick between 1vs1 and 1vsMany, so Heroes can't be a special case here as per Nexon
3. When were they ever useful? Besides Coma in training, some times.
4? There's a reason why only Paladins have it.

[quote=amazingant25]Yeah I always found that Heroes were weaker then everyone else now
I just made a thread on the Enrage part
Just make it 160% damage to one monster and your regular 100% damage to the rest (Skills still mob)
And also, I tested my damage with and without Combat Mastery and it didn't change O.o (When we got SP Reset)[/quote]

combat mastesry is 40% off the PDR of any mob or boss.
you're not gonan see the diff til yyou're fighting crap with big PDR like chaos zakum, chaos horntail, and higher up.
maybe stuff with 40% PDR like regular zak but to a much lesser extent wtih the low phyiscal defense.

once agian this requires you to be of HIGH LEVEL. 120-160 isnt' gonna cut it.

Yeah I always found that Heroes were weaker then everyone else now
I just made a thread on the Enrage part
Just make it 160% damage to one monster and your regular 100% damage to the rest (Skills still mob)
And also, I tested my damage with and without Combat Mastery and it didn't change O.o (When we got SP Reset)

[quote=PrettyBoyTom]No, you can't have. You are made to be slow and crippled so stay that way.

What's with the hero QQ'ing anyway? I see nothing wrong with them... oh is it because the other warriors got big boosts and are pretty much equal with you now? I mean i have never seen the warrior class so balanced till bb.

Well you're not DB's or MM's, so no. o.o ..smh @ [b]hero's these days, never knew them to be such complainers.[/b][/quote]
LOL and paladins are just sitting back sippin on cranberry juice smiling at how the roles have reversed LMAO priceless.

[quote=xLADDx]Panic can already hit multiple times lol. I got it to hit 8 times in a row before.
Chance Attack is fine where it is. Panic definitely needs a % boost though, it doesn't do much more than coma on one monster, it' really completely useless.
The only fix for Panic is to boost its damage and allow bosses to be Darkness'd by it.[/quote]

Um, I'm pretty sure you were either dreaming it or were just lagging heavily. Panic gives one big hit as far as a can remember. If it did give multiple hits then there would be no need to boost its damage since its an amazingly fast skill. (When i say multiple hits in a row im mean like NL triple throw skill where it hits 6 times per cast.)

Also, the reason for giving heroes a passive darkness effect is because the only use for darkness at bosses would be to get the 25% damage boost. You will still get hit alot by an enemy who is in darkness.

If darkness was passive and worked with all skills, then Brave slash, Coma, Panic, Brandish, etc. Would be able to cast darkness, and it would make training alot more useful and give alot more use to the 25% damage increase.

I would take a 6 hit Panic over 25% damage increase on bosses.

As me and chickenpoodl and the guy above me said,

Your level 12x, heroes are so strong once they max AC, combat mastery, enrage, intrepid

not to mention they have rush(great at level 1), monster magnet(great at level 1) and power stance

Intrepid hits 3 monsters, other classes only hit 1v1 as their best damage.

Heroes got buffed so much, Why can't you complain about how bad mages are -_-

gosh level 12x complaining about how weak heroes are when they are definitely one of the strongest class in maple.

Heros are just fine. Get yours to a higher level and you'll see. Not every class is great right after low 12x. Heros are a very strong class but you need to actually train them to a high level.

[quote=potatoguy11]i lol'd at all the noobs who think that heroes were already op from the beginning in % wise... i wanna see all of them make a sader/hero and look at their 7k brandishes while pallies are hitting 15ks, whats even funnier is all the pallies who got their damaged tripled from big bang are jelly that heroes get a cool looking skill and they dont want heroes to meet their range in att so they over react to a suggestion -.-

OT: I woudn't mind some changes, but I dont expect any of them coming in soon sadly:/ we do get an extra 10-15% att from IS though[/quote]
....what? o_O i cant tell if your insulting pallies or complementing them o_O

I could actually agree with all of them... 'cept for enrage, if you remove the 1vs1 cap of enrage then you should reduce the % you gain from using it and that would not be funny anymore. Be happy with what you got, Pallys still have to master two separate skill for bossing and Training, Heroes only have one.

!) Make Panic hit multiple times (5-6 hits in a row) rather than 1 big number. (If this is done then no need for extra affects and % per attack can be reduced.)
!) In addition to 25% damage, allow combat master to add in a passive 25-40% chance to cast darkness on enemies (counts for ALL attacks maybe per atk?). (Makes chance attack more useful!)
!) Make rage a passive skill that's increases critical damage or gives % attack increase. (Rage sucks as a party skill, I would rather have it as a passive skill.

With these changes, Heroes don't need party. They can have more interesting training. And Panic and coma will be alot more useful since Panic does more damage and is not limited by any caps, and Coma will have a 90% stun + 40% chance of darkness which would give chance attack like 1000% more usefulness.

Note: Someone would have to verify if this would make Heroes broken or not, it sounds reasonable to me.

-Rage already gives most people more than 10% damage anyway. And that's the same as the battle mage's aura. Maybe let Rage stack or at least not have to mess up people's attack potions/apples because that's really annoying.
-15% is crap, they would totally suck at 1vs1. Keep enrage the way it is, it's meant for bosses not training. 1vs3 damage is already fine.
-Agreed
-Sure it would be cool but I'm fine without it.

[quote=Tian]Whaaaaaaaaat you can't steal the Hammer mang[/quote]
Change the hammer into an axe and call it "Thor's Axe"
everybody wins

[quote=mesesa]Make a PALADIN LOLOLOLOL! No Pallys suck, Heros are the best in every way except defensive but you can't even tank in Maplestory so... Heros FTW![/quote]
I should smack the...-_- sigh..dude if u think that then ur very..naive.

@bello99: cuz divine shield is so beast it deserves to be stackable *sips cranberry juice*-_-

Here's my plan to improve heroes.

1) Brave Slash should be 9002% on all targets. PER SWING.
2) Rage should be 9002 attack
3) Combo should be 9002%/orb

Then maybe, JUST MAYBE, it'll be good enough.

oh i somehow came across this thread again, thinking it was new.
i read your first post again.

one more thing i want to add... why would they make rage party skill better than echo? 10% atk? echo is only 4%...
so.. if they make rage 10% atk... do they have to make echo 1000% atk or something?

i don't know what more you guys want.

intrepid + combat mastery and enrage alone destroys every other class's skill % dmg ability on bosses excluding all bonus buffs.

like that other guy said.
maybe your hero sux cuz you're level 12x... so obviously a hero without 4th job skills sux.
getting some levels on thre and experiencing how strong your class really is might be a good idea.

[quote=codyfrody]the only thing warriors need, is a speed boost type move. we are way too slow, and are easily ksed for a long time lol. other than that i think its all peachy[/quote]

Get to 4th job and you'll realize you don't need a speed boost. Rush and Monster Magnet is enough
However, perma-stun would be great, but that would be too overpowered

I can't believe this hasn't been mentioned... Perma STUN (Stun not broken by being hit) = OP Heros !

The only thing I disagree with is Blast doing 280% per hit 3 times at max
No! Turn it back to the large one hit attack

Maybe you should just level up and relise how good heroes are atm..

you should work on how to make ice and fire mages more useful

also bishops,

chickenpoodl is definately correct

[quote=XFear81]alot of other classes are getting buffed up and heroes are basicly not changing...

sounds balanced enough? i hope you guys agree! comment if you do or dont and any other suggestions![/quote]

obviously if you feel that hero's are disadvantaged now and later, you have problems comprehending what balance really is

yeah removing high attack potions is a bad idea lol. making rage stack with everything else is no doubt a must! i just hope developers listen to what we have to say!

I agree.

pallys are becoming very good actually. they do some crazy damage now

^ lol mechanic.

my imputs on how to improve heroes

you should
1. wait a few months for ultimate adventurer
2. do quest to get soul drive
3. shut up
4. have some cheese with that whine

lol sarcasm ^ it seems pretty legit to me! where do you see the problem?

thanks for the feedback! yours mightt work too i guess xP