General

@IKingAura

I still fail to see how that video shows an Evan with a range of 1mil hitting 40mil per line. His range is clearly 145k, and he's hitting 4 million, not 40. I believe that your friends are fabricating their damage.*

*Unless they happen to be using TaC at the end of Infinity against a fire-weak boss, which is so situational as to be irrelevant in the course of comparing range->damage.

There's no reason to think that a funded I/L or Bishop would not be able to solo Hell Gollux; since hits-per-second seem to carry a grave importance with you, I thought you might recognize that both those classes exceed the DPS required for the gem. Capping, I imagine most every class would be able to clear any boss besides Dorothy and Hellux with the exception of a Jett.

I think we should just all calm down

@lKingAura: 1) GMS isn't a carbon copy of KMS, but I am surprised to hear that FO/WB was glitched in KMS too - link please!

2/3) BaM: 20, BT: 40, Bishop: 40, Evan: 0, F/P: 20, I/L: 40, Lumi: 40, Kanna: 0, BM: 20, MM: 20, Mercedes: 25, WH: 20, WA: 20, Buster: 40, Bucc: 30, Cannon: 20, Sair: 45, Jett: 55, Mech: 30, Shade: 40, TB: 40, Xenon: ~20, DB: ~20, NL: ~30, Phantom: ~40, Shad: 30, Aran: ~70, DrK: 20, DW: 30, DA: 50, DS: 60, Hayato: 50, Hero: 30, Kaiser: 60, Paladin: 30, Zero: ~10

My apologies - you were right. There are three (3) classes out of thirty-six (36) that can keep up less than 20% status resistance at all times. Evans can only get 80% half the time, while Kannas can only get 30% about 80% of the time. As for a Zero...

4) I totally concur with you on this point, and always have - BaMs are fairly easy to keep alive.

5) The whole point of timing DR is to NOT trigger it, since you only do 1's. What's the point of timing it to purposely hit it? Anecdata: I consider myself a mediocre player, and haven't triggered DR in over a year. I'm pretty sure better players never do.

4(again?) I'll quote you on this one - "You know whats a good look for a mage? being possible to solo endgame bosses"

5(again?) Still wrong - try watching the video again. Anecdata: I wasn't close to hitting 50s with an Evan at a 1mil range. It's been quite a while, but I don't believe I was capping ME until about 1mil either - perhaps your "friends" have something along the lines of 500% boss. I'll quote you again: "BaM with 2m range does around or close to 25m (at cra)" - I'm pretty sure his range is far north of 2m in that video.

Its because BaM get really fun at lvl 170 with their Hyper, but everyone is too lazy to train to that level.

@IKingAura

1) Green pots are easy to get, and I imagine many Maplers keep it up at all times. There's been no word from Nexon about them being glitched, so I would refrain from assuming anything - I'm sure you know how the saying goes.

3/4) Every class in Maplestory has at least one skill that gives 20% Status Resist - many have more than that, so I once again have no idea where you pull your "facts" from.

5) 5 seconds is BARELY enough to rebuff, and how lucky would you have to be to die with your most important skills off of cd?

6) Relying on dodge rate alone will lead you back into problem 5.

The super slight horizontal range that a BaM has over a Bishop, F/P, and Evan is pretty much negated by the lack of a situation in which it is ever required. The additional vertical range the three AMs have from jump-tele and Kannas and Lumis have passively is far more useful.

At most, a BaM can survive one DR. Even then, a decent player would never trigger DR - unless, of course, it was a BaM stuck in the FB/BKB animation. (A decent BaM would time everything anyway, negating even that.)

If you took the time to look around, you might find out that other players solo end-game bosses on other mage classes. Quite surprising, since by your account, they shouldn't be able to.

"Evan at 1m range with like 200%boss? does 50m per line. BaM with 2m range does around or close to 25m (at cra), f/p with 500k does 50m on mist eruption and at 2m does 30m(?) with paralyze with around 200% boss."

^Since your numbers are incredibly off with both Evan and F/P, I imagine your BaM numbers aren't really on the mark either. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[quote=lKingAura]Evan at 1m range with like 200%boss? does 50m per line. BaM with 2m range does around or close to 25m (at cra), f/p with 500k does 50m on mist eruption and at 2m does 30m(?) with paralyze with around 200% boss. Low finding Evan wins, Standard funding f/p = BaM, Superior funding BaM > f/p for just a little bit (mostly only because of the speed of atk and having 1 or 2 more lines). But yea it takes BaMs around 3m-4m range for that.[/quote]

nah
low funding evan wins
standard funding evan wins
superior funding fp wins

fp doesn't just have paralyze it has flame haze, megido flame, flame aura, poison mist, ifrit, and spams paralyze while dots are up.
(most its skills do dot damage as well even paralyze does dot damage)
at 2mil range your fp should be doing like 35-40mil paralyze and fp have elemental reset for +50% damage when compared to bam. Fp can also get to speed cap with decent si and att speed inner ability or mpe pot.

You need like 5mil+ range on bam for it to = 2.5mil range fp at endgame bosses and even then fp would probably still deal more damage on a single target because all of its sources of damage. Main reason I don't play bam is the lack of elemental reset, lack of passive hypers, and no macro on bkb...

@lKingAura: I researched, gathered info on, and played every staff using class with no bias with the goal to find the strongest one to play. Bam is just average. Evan is strongest at low to high funding and at godly funding fp is the strongest. Bam is a lot better at like 5mil range hitting 50mils on endgame bosses but fp is still better even then imo.

@lKingAura: First off, your damage charts haven't been updated since 2013. JT's doesn't even have data from RED. Secondly, you're doing half dps to end game bosses so Paladin, Cygnus Knights, and most of the other mages do more damage.

Paladin, both Demons, Kaiser and Hayato have 50% or more status resist from skills alone, which becomes 100% in the same way you got your BaM to 70%. FP, IL, and Kanna have mechanics to avoid status entirely in addition to the passive resist from skills. And that's just off the top of my head: they're probably more. Honestly, I can't think of a class with less than 20% status resist.

The point of teleport is to dodge attacks. Not being able to teleport to interrupt FB+BKB is a liability against Magnus, Vellum, Pierre, and Gollux.

Of course you use booster: MPE green potions allow you to break the speed cap. And you have the audacity to question my knowledge of the class...

BaM has to cast at least yellow and dark auras as well did you completely forget about those? You have 5 absolutely mandatory buffs for damage: yellow aura, dark aura, booster, BB, GLA, and arguably Battle Master. Of those, the only one you can move during is BB and the only one you can use a pet for is booster. One death means spending a significant amount of time recasting auras, BB, and GLA (yay meteors, tails, and Pierre teleports). Even worse is death while BB and GLA are on CD. Other classes can use auto buff gems too, you know and they don't have buffs that freeze you in place for so long.

Cut the fanboy crap and look at the class objectively. With the way bosses work now, BaM's long animations are a liability. They received a passive in the latest KMS re-balancing to somewhat fix the problem with rebuffing after death, but I still put them beneath every other mage (except BT). Lacking elemental reset and being unable to quickly teleport to dodge attacks is not a good look for a mage.

[quote=lKingAura]@letshavesomefun
I tried to add it on that last response as an edit but basil made me fill a capcha for no reason >:, anyways:

Our 4th job main atking skill finishing bl*w gives:

+25% critical rate, +20% pdr ignore (this one is additive, not multiplicative) and +20% boss dmg

in other jobs, their passive hypers gives them 20% boss dmg, more critical, more pdr or more hits. When they introduced hypers to BaMs they gave us pretty useless ones (dark shock and or twister spin ones) with just 1 useful set of hypers (teleport), yet, lets not forget that they added +25% critical rate, +20% pdr ignore (this one is additive, not multiplicative) and +20% boss dmg as a passive effect integrated in our main atk, which is exacly what our hypers would be if they changed it for finishing bl*ow hypers instead, get me?[/quote]

Ohhh I see what you're saying. True FB does have some really good passive effects, however, don't you feel that BaMs are still lacking in DMG? FB seems kind of subpar compared to other mobbing moves since its only at 240%. I still love my BaM to death, but it seems that most other classes have a much higher %dmg for their 1vs1/mobbing, whereas our FB is used for both.

@lKingAura: wait you didnt answer my question though

@letshavesomefun: http://www.basilmarket.com/MapleStory-Battle-Mage-4_Sweeping-Staff_Hyper-Skill-1508.html

@lKingAura: Getting damage cut in half at bosses, having a long attack animation, and long buff animations are objectively bad when compared to other mages. You can't argue those points.

Top 5 dps (lolno) based on "some charts" is irrelevant when their actual damage is being cut in half. Hits/s means nothing until you are near the damage cap, at which point nobody cares since any capping class can solo everything save for Dorothy. Also, being unable to reach 100% status resist with a melee ranged class is laughable.

Having 75% attack from buffs and easily breaking the speed cap is awesome, but I can't recommend BaM over any other mage (except BT) as a main character. I have a level 19x BaM for muling bosses. Being unable to teleport until the end of FB+BKB and spending forever and a day to rebuff booster YA, BA, BB, GLA, and Battle Expert ridiculous while trying to dodge attacks. If I could transfer the time and funding I used on BaM to another mage mule I would.

[quote=lKingAura]FB + BKB deals many lines of dmg (based on some charts, that combination has a top 5 dps) so thats not an excuse. Rebuffing is just casting auras once, they have 3 buffs (which can be put in pets) and then just casting in and out BB every 150 seconds. If you have pets, its just 1 buff chain every 150 seconds (takes 4 seconds tops to buff). No ele reset is a downer i will give you that, but poor at soloing bosses? no, if anything they are one of the best bossers and im not biased on this. Their dmg is cut in half but its not as bad as you think/consider it to be, specially since we do have a 1vs1 skill. Low status res that could be debatible, not many classes even have passive status res like us, we can get up to 70% status res w/o potions and up yo 80% with them. 20% passive is not great but totally better than "low status resistance"... 70% is not low.

For the TC:
Their hypers are included on our main atk (+25% critical rate, +20% pdr ignore (this one is additive, not multiplicative) and +20% boss dmg) so having "lame" hypers are just a plus in hypers, at least the teleport ones.[/quote]

What do you mean by hypers help main skill? I'm not at lvl 140 yet so I can't access the passive hyper list, but from what I read a large portion of them are centered around Dark Shock/Twister/Teleport. I was comparing this to other classes that generally tend to have passives that increase the DMG/hit count/monster count of their main mobbing and 1vs1 skill. Also how do BaMs get 70%status res w/ self buffs? Thanks~

[quote=SirKibbleX2]@JayAlec: I was a pally so I paid very much attention to the elements monsters were weak/resistant against on hiddenstreet/mapletip I did not see a darkness element. Only fire,ice,holy,lightning and poison (and heal if you count that). It was still like that when 4th job (DrKs) came out, and still when resistance class was out.

If they did add a dark element then I think we would've known about it in some kms blog. I can't be 100% sure because I lost interest in pally as soon as Tempest came (and completely quit at RED), but before then I did bother to check spadow/orangmushroom blog and I don't remember them saying anything about it back then (like when some ToT monsters gained the weakness of fire/ice/lightning/poison in a pre-bb patch).

TL;DR : There's no actual darkness element since pre-bb, if there was KMS blogs would be talking about it before the release of it.

TBH, I really think Nexon has forgotten and no longer gives a crap about monster elements.[/quote]

Actually Evan's skill dark fog is suppose to be dark element.

@mark24: I'm a troll. Says the legendary @Mark24. Good one.

[quote=rabbitman897]Says the Evan/IL/New class as your avatar every day. Either way, every post you make is in bias towards Evans don't even pretend it's not.[/quote]

my il and evan 200. Evan are the strongest mage for 90%+ of mages who have less than 2mil range. That is a fact not bias. If bam was the strongest id say that and id probably still be playing it since I spent 120k nx psoking to it and then off it back to il because it was bad. If you can manage over 2mil range on explorer mage than fp is the strongest with 50mil paralyzes.

My favorite mages are il and luminous and I can tell you they both suck at bossing/dojo with no glitches(il should be better after the kms buff but only for il who aren't already capping with cl, won't make the godly il any stronger). I am pretty sure you are a troll, saying im biased towards evan. I am biased towards facts -__-.

[quote=mark24]@rabbitman897: evan bias? wth is this mech doing in this forum?[/quote]

Says the Evan/IL/New class as your avatar every day. Either way, every post you make is in bias towards Evans don't even pretend it's not.

@rabbitman897: evan bias? wth is this mech doing in this forum?

@mark24: I don't need your life story

[quote=rabbitman897]Ohhhh, whats a BaM thread without some heavy Evan bias from @Mark24?[/quote]

Bias? I picked evan solely off it being the strongest mage with under 2mil range.(fp strongest over 2mil) I don't particularly like the class Lol. Got it 200 after a few days and I am about to xfer back to il on Thursday. IL mage with glitched frost orb dojos faster than all the mage and will get me top 10 gloves. Also since im an il main I can start getting perma untradeable like heart/sw glasses/tattoo etc. I am at 800k range on il atm, when I get 2mil I will probably switch to fp for better dps but might stay il.

[quote=mark24]He wont admit anything negative about bam(im guessing he's heavily invested in the class or something, bam mains upvote him). The class is not having elemental reset is just troll, also it has other issues as well. Bam damage even on bosses with no resistance is less than evan's if you are under 2mil range.(with the same gear) If you are over 2mil range fp does more even on bosses with no resistance and much more on bosses with. Bam need like 5mil+ range to hit 50mils on endgame bosses is what I've been told.[/quote]

Ohhhh, whats a BaM thread without some heavy Evan bias from @Mark24?

Aside points already made, BaM has nice survivability, up until you hit %hp dmg bosses, where we come in just as frail as many other classes. Sure we do have some protection, but pt shield has a very limited range, short duration and a long cool down. There's also the fact that since TD and BD adds additivly, we lag behind other classes there as well since we thrive on TD (30% on battle master + 75% with grand llight +40% battle rage and were already almost three fourths to the 200% bd that's recommended if I recall). Also we have an annoying CD on our Grand Light Aura, which means if you die mid-fight (which is almost certain to happen with the current end game bosses) we lose 75% TD, and our capped speed on slow staves, greatly dropping our DPS as well as making it even easier to die since the FB+BUN combo then has a massive delay. All these things as well as what has already been stated make BaM a bad choice for end game bossing in general. However this won't stop me and many others from enjoying and maining this class.

[quote=Sorphedi]Despite that, did we really need hypers for Dark Shock....[/quote]

He wont admit anything negative about bam(im guessing he's heavily invested in the class or something, bam mains upvote him). The class is not having elemental reset is just troll, also it has other issues as well. Bam damage even on bosses with no resistance is less than evan's if you are under 2mil range.(with the same gear) If you are over 2mil range fp does more even on bosses with no resistance and much more on bosses with. Bam need like 5mil+ range to hit 50mils on endgame bosses is what I've been told.

[quote=lKingAura]Open your 4th job skill tab and read under our main atk, np.[/quote]

Despite that, did we really need hypers for Dark Shock....

The reach of the auras to other party members could be larger (Or perhaps keeping the current reach and making each member like a beacon of influence)

Other than that, the lack of an elemental reset is a drag, but certainly worth the survivability we receive.

[quote=freezenlight]elemental reset is what makes FP/IL/Lumi/ Evan mages one of the best bossers.
bosses like magnus, gollux, RA boss, Hilla have something called physical and magic resist. This makes all classes without reset skill do 50% of damage.
so even regular classes like Night lord have "neutral element"

so the reason why BaM are considered bad is cause there damage gets cut in half while other mages don't suffer this.[/quote]

Physical and Magic res is called PDR/MDR (Physical def rate/Magic def rate) these can be ignored with IED (Ignore enemy def) what makes you do 50% damage on all high end bosses is just plain old element res, yes in this game everything, even physical attacks, are an element. So the only way to do full damage is to have element reset, or have a void element attack which only mages have for magic claw, or so I have heard I've never tested this.

http://www.basilmarket.com/MapleStory-monster-Chaos-Vellum-1187.html
Only thing basil doesn't do is show the PDR/MDR rates -_- Cvellum has 300% PDR/MDR

OT: I like my BaM, I don't love it but its at least interesting enough to get to 165 so far (its really cuz I can throw a Ele staff on him and then an MPE and break the speed cap but meh.

I love maining my Battle Mage, but tbh our hypers really do suck.

And I don't think our mobility is bad. It's not ABs or Xenon, but we can cap Speed and Jump and our teleport is finally decent.

Well, u would need to stick like glue to the BaMs to actually get the party effects.

If I wanted high HP and defense and bossing skills and melee combat I'd play a warrior.

[quote=SirKibbleX2]@JayAlec: I was a pally so I paid very much attention to the elements monsters were weak/resistant against on hiddenstreet/mapletip I did not see a darkness element. Only fire,ice,holy,lightning and poison (and heal if you count that). It was still like that when 4th job (DrKs) came out, and still when resistance class was out.

If they did add a dark element then I think we would've known about it in some kms blog. I can't be 100% sure because I lost interest in pally as soon as Tempest came (and completely quit at RED), but before then I did bother to check spadow/orangmushroom blog and I don't remember them saying anything about it back then (like when some ToT monsters gained the weakness of fire/ice/lightning/poison in a pre-bb patch).

TL;DR : There's no actual darkness element since pre-bb, if there was KMS blogs would be talking about it.[/quote]

elemental reset is what makes FP/IL/Lumi/ Evan mages one of the best bossers.
bosses like magnus, gollux, RA boss, Hilla have something called physical and magic resist. This makes all classes without reset skill do 50% of damage.
so even regular classes like Night lord have "neutral element"

so the reason why BaM are considered bad is cause there damage gets cut in half while other mages dont suffer this.

@SirKibbleX2:

I forgot to add "Undead" types if you count that as darkness (weak to holy of course)
But if you check Showa Town monsters they are listed as Devil/Demon type.
I'm not sure if there are other monsters like that, but those are the ones I could think of at the top of my head.

Reduced damage to end-game bosses, also about mobility i don't really see a problem; i have the tele hyper and it's quite mobile- and they're not extremely closed range, on the contrary, once we are 170 the hyper has a really large range

I really like Battle Mages! I played mine when it came out as far as level 135 and quit over two years ago. Back then I had decent damage but nowadays the concept of good damage is somewhere between 5000 euros and a million. BaM's were not popular soon after the release hype, but they are versatile and I found them being much different from anything I played before.

I have no idea what they have done to the whole game and Battle Mages in terms of "revamps", "buffs" and "makethegamemoreovertheboardtomakemorecash"-es, but one thing is certain: it was a load of fun to train with friends for example in LHC with this character and we were (still are, I believe) one of the best mobbers. I also admire their survivability, thanks to Drain and naturally high defense and HP. I have never even seen a Hyper Skill, so I want to believe the ones BaM gets fortify our strong sides and patch up our weaknesses.

[quote=SirKibbleX2]What element is there to reset? There's no such thing as a dark element.[/quote]

iirc there is a demon/devil type (darkness) and holy counterpart type.

because they're boring af. the class really doesn't shine until 170 and most people give up before then

No elemental reset, low status resist, FB + BKB animation too long, takes way too long to rebuff. All these make the class poor soloing bosses. In a party they need to be near the members to provide the buff from auras instead of just casting a buff/debuff and running away.