General

I got a reply to my ticket! It seems like something may really be happening. We still don't know what... but this is something at least.

I also 'lost' real money buying elemental wands/staves, but oh well, it's just a game. We all understand that we play for enjoyment- it's not a freaking job, it's not a life, it has no intrinsic real world value.

When I spent that money, I knew darn well that I was buying bits and bytes owned by Nexon, and that within X months/years it would be worthless. (Something better always comes out, some glitchs come out that ruin items, etc...).

They made the call to nerf the weapons for game balance. Case closed.

I wish I could get my money back, but I enjoyed the weapons while I had them, and that's ultimately what I was paying my money for, for enjoyment.

And that was my real money, and I don't even care! Anyone that is upset because they lost mesos needs to get some serious perspective. If you didn't enjoy what you bought and are just worried about hording mesos, then that's just kinda sad.

[quote=RandomDudeX]our damage output sucks either way and if you get an extra 70k-110k from Teleport mastery you must be hella funded, im doing maybe 50k with tele mastery and i have 25% int from potential and MW 20.[/quote]

At least 20% more base int than you (the % int he would have to have at the same level to do that kind of damage) is not "hella funded". Note he's also SIXTY FIVE LEVELS HIGHER THAN YOU.

Just because you can't add individual hits and aren't doing lots of high hits in cascading order like the "holy effing crap best DPS class in this game that no other class can beat LMFAONLs" doesn't mean your "damage output sucks either way". Clearly you hate your class and don't want to play. Give up. Move on. It's for your own good.

In the server maintenance notice, it mentions other issues submitted by players. Maybe, just maybe, but its a big assumption.

Also, I've come to the realization that Hime watches these forums every day and must see this thread, we're only getting ignored...

Nothing's happened with my ticket yet. It's been almost a month since I sent it in, so maybe I only have a couple more months to go before getting a response. Everybody just keep signing that petition and doing whatever else possible to make your point to Nexon.

AMs aren't that much behind everyone else if you factor in summons+dot+tele mastery+infinity...

I keep seeing the title of this thread and imagining all the mages going to war for their weapons..
"CHARGGEEEEE! NEXON WILL FALL TO US!" -Angry AM mob.

:3

[quote=RandomDudeX]most other staffs, EW = fast.[/quote]

All other end game staffs...

[quote=AdroxNight]I know, I did the math about a month or so ago. I was just asking so that I could be a little more specific in my calculations because the formula does a little rounding (celing function specifically).
http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/1816331/0/Battle_Mages_benefit_more_from_Elemental_Staves_than_AMs.html#[/quote]

You're welcome?...

[quote=AdroxNight]How exactly do BaM attack in 4th job and what skils do they attack with? When I made that 33.333% DPM increase estimate I was unaware of their main method of attack. I could be exact if I knew the optimal method of attacking.[/quote]

All other staffs are slow speed. Elemental staffs are faster than that. This means you get the speed that you would out of yellow, while being able to use dark, which = maximum DPS. The 33% estimate is from the speed gain from the base speed of the staff.

@adrox : they attack with a 6 blow attack which uses the speed of a weapon.. So basically a warrior but relies on the m.attk rather then the w.attk...

@adrox : they attack with a 6 blow attack which uses the speed of a weapon.. So basically a warrior but relies on the m.attk rather then the w.attk...

@panties : sure I'm slow...
@tai : sure..

[quote=Bello]@iDropPanties: ikr?[/quote]

I was calling you slow.
Top job captain.

@iDropPanties: ikr?

[quote=CoIorIess]LOLOLOL
-high5-[/quote]

UR A NON-A/M -.-""" u don't even need elemental staff...matter of a fact you don't even need a weapon... Ur a [b]SUPPORT[/b] class.... Ur dmg is soppose to be bs... matter of a fact u shouldn't even have a damage range...

[quote=Abysseon]Yes and Magic Mastery (now buff mastery) was thought to give +30% magic attack instead of +30 when the first few bb charts
were made on basil/sp. Despite that and the +25% bonus, I think it wasn't until the 200 I/L at pap/zakum vid that players
noticed archmages having bossing potential.

Then other classes started having faster pap runs and the damage cap became a concern for the funded archmages. (Etryeis?)[/quote]

Haha, Etrieys is the equivalent of god in maplestory. Idk how he got so rich, but if I was in his world I'd beg him for mesos. Anyways, yes, the 25% + 30% made quite a difference, theoretically.

So, apparently, Nexon was answering questions on basil. I missed it. -.- I quoted Hime and asked her about this, and adroxnight did too, but there's no telling if she even checks her quotes. I hope that she will seriously take our questions into consideration like all of the other questions.

[quote=Abysseon]I don't see how ams can rank in the top five when during kmst big bang we were never considered top tier with ele weapons and +30% magic mastery.[/quote]

>kmst
>ele weapons

>.>

How are people still VPQing? I thought the NPC was gone o_o.

OT: I think the flaw in the people who are arguing against the reinstating of the elemental boosts is that they're so used to mages having the lowest damage that it's strange for them to consider mages having DPM which can rank in the top 5. There's no rule anywhere that says someone who throws stars or shoots a gun should have higher natural damage than someone who uses magic.

It was from insane traffic. Did you really expect anything great from a system he put up within 2 days span?

I suggest if anyone cares about this issue to bring it up in the Q&A happening in half an hour.

[quote=CowSockie]They compensate us for broken events and unannounced server downtime- other then that, they don't compensate us for anything~ If they said they owed us something for this issue, i'd be amazed. ~_~ There's no doubt about it... Nexon's mind is filled with $$$$$.[/quote]

Yea, because there has never been a situation in which Nexon nerfed an item and compensated its players. BTW, hammered ht pendants say hello.

Like I said earlier, I think you guys should give up on the ele bonus and focus on the compensation.

[quote=IImaplers]No, I did not account for those things. Adjusting the int/luk wont change much so I didn't bother with it. As for cost, it is a major issue. DOT being glitched is also a large concern.

And I agree that the ele bonus should be re-instated. I'm just pointing out that AMs aren't in as bad a spot DPM-wise as some perceive them to be.[/quote]

Lowering base int by at LEAST 90 will have a very significant effect on one's range even if your % main stat is as "low" as 18% so i think you should factor it in. Not that the numbers would likely change that much where it would affect the ranking but it's still needed.

@ above: Yeah in khaini's economy i rarely see VIPs for under 800m clean but it depends on the weapon. Clean staffs go for 1bish, and wands i believe are cheaper. (BaMs love their staffs)

I say it reinstated. Now that I think of it, usually mages in those video games are pwnage D:<
we need to be the only mages around D & use our spells pro-ly like no other~

[quote=AdroxNight]Did you adjust the Int/Luk values to account for the massive luk cost?
Did you account for the fact that (before the nerf) clean Elemental Weapons' cost rivaled that of scrolled optimal weapons for other classes and that other weapons should be upgraded to give equal funding comparisons? (In Bellocan, an average 2 line ele wand 5 cost me about 500mill pre-bb, but right now VIPs are still less than 200mill clean and possibly much lower in value).
Did you account for the fact that GMST testing showed that Elemental Weapons didnt affect DoT? or did you account for the fact that DoT is glitched?

And I believe I missed several other factors, but for starters, did you account for any of those factors?

And just to mention it again, the fact that Elemental Weapons didnt affect DoT and the fact that Mages alternated between skills to maintain their DoT would mean that mages would not get a full 25% bonus. It would be less. For Evans, Illusion is about 20 or so % stronger than Blaze on one target, so they would not receive a large 1v1 DPM boost at all.[/quote]

No, I did not account for those things. Adjusting the int/luk wont change much so I didn't bother with it. As for cost, it is a major issue. DOT being glitched is also a large concern.

And I agree that the ele bonus should be re-instated. I'm just pointing out that AMs aren't in as bad a spot DPM-wise as some perceive them to be.

[quote=AdroxNight]I dont think its possible for one person to regularly VPQ and at the same time release those items into the FM. I could see it as being possible if the person had a plethora of characters on the VPQ map, but even then he/she would have significant limits on releasing VIPs into the market.[/quote]

VIP rocks, i would imagine.

Bellocan is a bit of an oddball for VIP prices since i believe that is the only server that has a character that still regularly VPQs.

Dusk's chart, though highly accurate is slightly flawed in regard to AMs because it lists their default end-game weapon as having 125 base magic attack. Customize that value to 150 (to simulate ele wands 5-8) and AMs are the 6th or 7th best DPM class. Being the 6th-7th highest attacker is actually pretty good. If, say we customize the base attack to 180 (simulating ele staves 5-8), AMs are now in the top 5 in DPM. Add the 25% elemental bonus back in and AMs are in the top 3 for sure (with e staves 5-8).

As for Buccaneers, they definitely should get buffed to have respectable DPM. There's no argument there.

By the way, for anyone who still cares about my argument on the last page, i should mention that dusk fixed the value for "pirate's revenge" to be always on, which in game is never the case. In fact, at BGA, pirates revenge is active i would generously estimate at around 15% of the fight. Actual DPS for buccaneers is far lower than what is displayed on his chart.

[quote=Quickjumper7]Silverfox is biased against you? He said that we should listen to you because you are always right. If he is biased, would't he be biased towards you?

The insult originated from the basic meaning "you are gay". It has since evolved, but we can't ignore what it really means. And completely disregarding that, insults are just plain rude.

You bring up many good points, don't get me wrong. But it just wasn't right for Nexon to do this. No announcement beforehand, no compensation, nothing. I'm screwed because of this. I don't have good equips, and I don't have mesos. Are you willing to give me the money for my losses, as well as every other mage out there? If not, than we still have reason to fight.[/quote]

LMFAO OOPS. I read "does" as "doesn't". I apologize. :[

I agree with you on this point, but it still doesn't change what he meant by it. o.o Besides, that insult could easily be interpreted as having nothing to do with homosexuality. It's an insult directed at heterosexual males for a long time.

I also agree with you that it wasn't right to give no notice or compensation (yet). In fact i signed one of the petitions (one organized by the current owner of SP) noting that i agree with the balancing reasoning, but that ripping off their customers is horrible business practice.

@xbladerFTW: If this was directed at me... I don't mean a thread, I mean find a website (that is well known, if there is one) that lets you make a petition for something and post the link to the pettition somewhere that it will be seen by many maplestory players. i.e. BasilMarket, Hiddenstreet, etc

[quote=Takeback3r]
He is biased against me because i often call him out in threads where he makes points that either stretch the truth or are so far from it that he thinks i am constantly out to get him. He is biased against this "cause" because he is a firm believer in Nexon calling the shots and that the players have no real right to hold any opinion on a controversial subject when the decision is ultimately theirs to make.

And yes, you are completely misunderstanding his insult. His insult does not mean to question his sexuality.[/quote]

Silverfox is biased against you? He said that we should listen to you because you are always right. If he is biased, would't he be biased towards you?

The insult originated from the basic meaning "you are gay". It has since evolved, but we can't ignore what it really means. And completely disregarding that, insults are just plain rude.

You bring up many good points, don't get me wrong. But it just wasn't right for Nexon to do this. No announcement beforehand, no compensation, nothing. I'm screwed because of this. I don't have good equips, and I don't have mesos. Are you willing to give me the money for my losses, as well as every other mage out there? If not, than we still have reason to fight.

This is off topic but does anyone find it funny how this is the only mage thread that has been on the front page in quite a while?

On topic...I didn't get to the point where I could use weapons with elemental boosts on my F/P or I/L (or any of my mages for that matter) before big bang so I don't know how helpful (or not) they are. However, I would like to have had the chance to use it. So yes, I would like to use the boosts for them. Submit tickets, people that live near headquarters for maple go in and talk (or complain...nicely) to them, petition (MAKE ONE, NOT A MILLION DIFFERENT ONES. Having one petition with a very large number of signatures is more effective then having like 200 with a small amount on each... think about it. Think of a good professional name for it and have a well thought out description of what you want to have happen and -->WHY<--. Try and get names of well known maplestory characters on it. Obvious things that people tend to not pay attention to.) BTW...Yes I do know that one has been made/posted on this thread.

[quote=RandomDudeX]why ask me since you knew better than i who this Dusk was and how he does things? i just look at the numbers and its much more convenient to use one skill than have to keep switching to maintain damage.[/quote]

Because asking you to calculate the numbers rather than bluntly pointing it out to you leads to you more clearly understanding my point. According to the sheet that you thought put buccaneers over arch mages in tier, the result is actually the opposite because you were reading it wrong. Alternating skills? I/Ls have the ability to telecast CL to activate mastery to deal far more damage within the cast time of their main attack skill to achieve higher DPS than buccaneers are able to dish out. F/Ps less so because telecasting para leads to weird delays but to compensate para is given DoT, higher base damage, and more targets. This balances out the two classes for DPS, but we're not really concerned with such things are we?

According to the chart you linked me to, elemental weapons would make BASE AM DPS [b]WITHOUT[/b] teleport mastery factored in completely eclipse buccaneers, and would rival or even surpass several classes considered to be top tier DPS characters. Unbalanced much?

[quote=Abysseon]There's a lot of things gms has that could be broken in kms but wasn't removed (apples/swiss cheese).[/quote]

What's so broken about apples? They give 100 w/m.att iirc.

Both of those examples are just pots. They aren't permanent stat boosts like these weapons and therefore are not "broken" nor are they unfair.

[quote=Abysseon]Pre-BB the weapons were designed from JMS in order to balance archmages with bishops since at that point, there was
literally no reason to make an archmage over one.
(Hence the -% to holy elements so bishops couldn't use them.)[/quote]

Yes i know, but it was ALSO designed to fill the gap between AMs and OTHER classes, because at that point their damage could also not compare to w.att classes. Even after the weapons they could not compete, but it was more bearable, and to the players (and more importantly NexonJP) this meant balance.

[quote=Abysseon]Ture, there isn't a gap between them from kms standards but even you have to admit that
the 'balance' was lackluster when buccs/ams are still among the bottom tier classes end game.[/quote]

I do have to admit that the balance was lackluster considering to achieve a tighter gap between classes one had to shell out in most cases REAL MONEY to compete, but to me there was never any balance issues with buccaneers. I have argued heavily against this point on SP (which i know you frequent) so you can go there to see my points. Most of those points were applicable pre-BB as well.

[quote=Abysseon]Elemental weapons didn't affect DoT during testing.
If they had no bonuses during tespia then big bang's release/announcement wouldn't have been such a surprise to the mage community.[/quote]

I find that a little odd but consider me proven wrong. What i don't understand is how he got his hands on those weapons to begin with.

[quote=Quickjumper7]I don't see how he is biased, please explain.[/quote]

He is biased against me because i often call him out in threads where he makes points that either stretch the truth or are so far from it that he thinks i am constantly out to get him. He is biased against this "cause" because he is a firm believer in Nexon calling the shots and that the players have no real right to hold any opinion on a controversial subject when the decision is ultimately theirs to make.

And yes, you are completely misunderstanding his insult. His insult does not mean to question his sexuality.

@Bello: You called him a diick rider, as in he rides diick. Heterosexual males don't ride diick, homosexual ones do. I don't care about your evolved sense of the insult, because it originated with the thought that being gay is wrong and stupid. And even ignoring the meaning of the insult, is it right to insult anybody in any way, such as the way you just insulted me?

I don't see how he is biased, please explain.

@Quickjumper7: TS r u slow or what? Me calling him a d*ck rider doesn't mean I'm calling him gay... It's basically another way of saying he's biased...
And sure...

[quote=Bello]D*ck rider... Yeah a bucc knows more then a pro am about am-related issues.. So true huh..

Honestly I think they won't bring the bonuses til the chaos update during the summer.. Which I hope they don't...
They should also make the ultimates a 15-sec delay between skills usage..
Also they should make corresponding ele boost -> 40%
2nd ele stat -> 30%
So : ele wand 3 : 40% + ice element boost
And 30% + lightning element boost..

And so it seems that there's rumors of a holy ele wand/staff.. That should have never been created.. Bishops r a [b]SUPPORT[/b] class + they alrdy hogg OUR ele wands as it is...
I would say remove there ultimate but then again that's too much and it'd never happen...[/quote]

I don't want his attitude nor your attitude in this thread. Your demands are quite ridiculous, and lack the thought process to have any sort of merit. His demands are the same. You can't fight fire with fire.
Also, the reference to being gay in your insult is absolutely uncalled for. Calling someone gay should not be considered an insult, and if you think it is such, you have some morals to work out.

Other than that, thank you for supporing the cause. I will not give up on this cause, despite advice from many to not. It's a matter of principal and standing up for what you believe in. Whining and testifying are two different things.

[quote=SilverFoxR]Seriously? This thing is still going on?

For chrissakes, get your panties out of a bunch and freakin' deal with it. They'll either fix it or they won't. Until then, whining and getting so worked up isn't gonna change anything... so quit it already.

Also, Takeback3r often does know what he's talking about, so I'd reconsider getting into a pissing contest with him.[/quote]

D*ck rider... Yeah a bucc knows more then a pro am about am-related issues.. So true huh..

Honestly I think they won't bring the bonuses til the chaos update during the summer.. Which I hope they don't...
They should also make the ultimates a 15-sec delay between skills usage..
Also they should make corresponding ele boost -> 40%
2nd ele stat -> 30%
So : ele wand 3 : 40% + ice element boost
And 30% + lightning element boost..

And so it seems that there's rumors of a holy ele wand/staff.. That should have never been created.. Bishops r a [b]SUPPORT[/b] class + they alrdy hogg OUR ele wands as it is...
I would say remove there ultimate but then again that's too much and it'd never happen...

[quote=RandomDudeX]they probably did it in KMS without using any special equips[/quote]

The little mark that says "dusk of sp.net" would suggest otherwise, since he calculates with GMS in mind while using normalized ranges and equipment sets. (or tries to) Like i said, dps has everything to do with funding, not a chart. Obviously you would rather use the chart to compare though, and that's fine since dusk tries to do it as accurately as possible and he is rather good at it.

[quote=RandomDudeX]http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/1707/63246129.png <--- that chart. it simply isnt realistic to say that all AM's are more powerful then you - that chart shows where classes would be without being super funded and its fact that AM's would need more funding than you to do more damage than you, that must be the case in your guild[/quote]

1) Do you know which version this is?
2) Do me a favor and add the para+DoT/CL+DoT column with the teleport column and the demon column and tell me if the number you get is higher or lower than the demolition column. Also consider that both of those attacks mob, while demolition does not.

[quote=SilverFoxR]Also, Takeback3r often does know what he's talking about, so I'd reconsider getting into a pissing contest with him.[/quote]

Lol oops. For some reason i thought you were still mad at me.

[quote=RandomDudeX]WTH you talking about, have you seen the damage charts? Buccaneers are at 500k+ damage while AM's are at like 340k - looks like your winning to me, and if you dont wanna support the cause dont bother posting[/quote]

1) Which chart are you talking about?
2) No i have not seen it.
3) Damage is all about funding and completely irrelevant to the actual game. Most mages out damage me in my alliance, FYI.
4) So basically anyone who doesn't agree with you can piss off? That's fine. I'm sure Nexon will listen to you with that mindset rather than accepting that you have no say whatsoever and realizing the other advantages of your class without the ability of elemental weapons.

Seriously? This thing is still going on?

For chrissakes, get your panties out of a bunch and freakin' deal with it. They'll either fix it or they won't. Until then, whining and getting so worked up isn't gonna change anything... so quit it already.

Also, Takeback3r often does know what he's talking about, so I'd reconsider getting into a pissing contest with him.

[quote=RandomDudeX]well considering infinity only lasts so long i think we deserve the extra damage cuz when its not in use you dominate AM's with equal funding - doesnt seem fair to me that you are consistently better and the only time we stand a chance is with a skill up that only lasts such a limited time, and who cares that M.Atk is higher than W.Atk, its that way because W.Atk classes have a higher multiplier.[/quote]

If you want to directly compare our classes, infinity may only last so long but so does super transform. When it isn't in use, you dominate me.

W.att classes have a higher multiplier, but you have 5% higher base mastery. (Most) W.att classes also cannot achieve the damage boost from a elementally weak mob, and while resistance and immunities are a downside, demons now affect bosses while shifting their immunities/resistances/neutrality/weakness down a level.

[quote=Abby]It took an extremely funded 200 archmage to hit the damage cap with infinity in kms so I don't think that applies to
the majority of ams/bishops in gms.[/quote]

You are right, it does not apply to the majority, but that wasn't the main point. It drastically affects your DPS and is not fair to all other classes. Pre-BB these weapons were designed to even the gap. Post-BB changes were made to even the gap, and according to KMS, there is no gap anymore. Leaving in weapons designed to fill a gap that no longer exists in the eyes of the company is extremely unfair and unnecessary. Whether or not you consider your DPS to be sub-par still is irrelevant.

[quote=Abby]A 1.25% increase would add 11,500 to my cl and that isn't enough to go from 2 > 1 hitting rextons. [/quote]

That's nice. Want to know how much it affects your DPS? 1.25x.

[quote=abby]I don't think the bonus applies to DoT/summons from those who had it in tespia.[/quote]

Not seeing how you could possibly know such a thing. Elemental weapons did not work in tespia, just like they don't work in GMS. The effects were never active, so the effects on DoT can only be assumed to be a positive change. Iirc, 30% boss affects DoT, so there isn't any reason why ele.weaps wouldn't. I could be wrong of course, but DoT is getting buffed in chaos regardless so it's not like it not being affected matters that much.

not to belittle your cause or anything...but nexon creates alot of bugs, has to deal with upcoming patches, and the plethora of hackers in maple, at the moment it seems like you guys are at the bottom of their to do list.

mages really do need their elemental bonuses back since you guys were brutalized with BB taking away your ultimates and make you guys the lower end of DPS

[quote=RandomDudeX]your a dam buccaneer what would you know about AM's and how much we do/dont need the bonuses? and to your 2nd point, it can only be used every 30 seconds when maxed, i think at level 1 it has a CD of a minute.[/quote]

My damn buccaneer is the so called "weakest w.att class" you've been referring to so much. Your elemental weapons have more base m.att than any weapon that a w.att class could get their hands on, while being several times cheaper at the same time while having better potential bonuses. Considering m.att has more or less the same effect on mage damage as w.att does for other classes, this is a huge advantage. You are under exaggerating how much a 1.25x/1.15x increase in your DPS on top of the weapons already glaring advantages would make your class look compared to everyone else, especially considering it's relatively easy for a mage to hit the damage cap with potential effects + infinity alone.

And a cooldown affects my point how? OHKOing everything on a map once every half minute is something a lot of classes cannot do, and even if you don't OHKO you leave behind a strong DoT that stacks with your other skills, which by the way, your 1.25x bonus would affect. Not having an ultimate greatly impacts a classes ability to gain high %/h compared with not having it.

[quote=RandomDudeX]even with DoT fixed and the elemental boosts we would be behind W.Atk classes so whats the harm in giving it to us? either way we will need more funding to do equal damage with even the weakest W.Atk class[/quote]

1) No.
2) The weakest w.att classes don't have the mobility that teleport provides nor the strong map clearing ability that your ultimates still possess.

[quote=Egnirys27]Arch Mages have gotten a lot stronger since Big Bang[/quote]

Not until DoT timers are fixed to last longer than level 1 they haven't.

@AdroxNight: I don't have or like fb either but its a suggestion

Just to clarify, after the chaos update CL does 850%, and Paralyze does with 770% with 140% DoT. It is quite time to end the CL vs Paralyze debate. After all, we're all mages here and we all want the same thing, splitting apart over any issue will only hurt the cause.

[quote=Mythicknight]I know its tough, but its not the end of the world. Even if my arcglaive turned to a slow speed, I could always change it to another weapon such as reverse of a machlear.
Raging at Nexon seems very immature.[/quote]

It's just irritating. I bought my staff in the MTS and spent about $15 on it. I know, it's my money that I spent on a game blah blah blah. It's the principle that's so irritating. People invested a lot into these weapons, and now they're useless. There are other things I would've rather used that money for, now that I don't get my boost. If anything, it's poor business practice. You wouldn't buy a car if you knew the dealer would come by in a month or so to take the engine back. I see it as a customer service issue.

No, it's not the end of the world. And yes, whining about it probably won't get us anywhere. But I feel the whining is justified, in this case.

[quote=AdroxNight]Wow... I'm astonished at how aggrivated people have become, but I'm also pleased. We should be angry, and we should focus are anger. Just let's not let it consume us.

Also, petition: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/elemental-wands-staves/[/quote]

i would sign but this might be a way to get ppl email address

Easiest way: Stop Buying NX

@AdroxNight: o ok try putting on facebook?