General

I've seen many people backing MM on the unlimited funding but noone with evidence for or against it, could someone actually work out some numbers for a MM ? of course talking max dmg and "unlimited funding" would be tapping it for 999,999 first hit so speed of that and such? i don't have the skills to work this out but would like to know, Frostprey + tap piercing
also CO's and non CO since hitting 8 or 9 affects the different potential DPM

phantom max damage on mille aguilles or merc/bowman with hurricane.. gg?

@RockGodOne: that's still quite powerful
quite powerful meaning extremely powerful

Damn, with unlimited funding, I'd buy everything in the free market to make everyone rich.

[quote=navert93]Dont mechanics have to move when they use siege mode because of the 100 atk limit?[/quote]

That limit does not apply to Siege.

[quote=RockGodOne]Lol dude. The 100m damage cap for that skill is not each hit. It applies only to the "finishing" attack. Each regular hit caps at the regular 999,999. Once you let go of the skill key, or the 8 second maximum duration of the skill is up, it triggers the "finishing" attack which maxes out at 100,000,000.[/quote]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXJWS7oyCZY

That video clearly shows the tornado skill hitting in the millions.

bishop nuff said

[quote=Shadowlilnk]phantom and night lord have the highest potential in the game,simply because of their multipliers,but when you add unlimited funding into the mix,then the usually go's to the person with better control,i'm refering to any class/person who has more handling.

With unlimited funding,potential is thrown out the window,seeing how everyone can hit the cap,therefore no potential is needed.

now,as far as bossing and mobbing,you have to take in all the situations that come into play,such as boss spawns,buffs and debuffs if there any.A mech might be good in some situations,granted most bosses take forever to cast buffs on themselves,but it doesn't mean they will be good in others,alot of people here are saying that mechs are good because of siege and or summons,but no one has bothered mentioned the failsafe that happens after shooting 100 times,which stops you from attacking until you move from your current spot,i'm not trying to insult people here,but these things are what people tend to forget about,zakum is probably the only boss where you can usually stand still and wail on him,since all of the other bosses move,or they are much larger.

Alot of people also talk about mechs killing zakum in 12 seconds,that's not really hard,considering zakum is the lowest major boss in the game,i dout you'll ever see 12second horntail or pb runs.

We all know about Horntail and it's body,unless a mech starts from the top and works his way down,i can't see a mech killing horntail faster,then a mercedes,simply because mercedes are more versatile and they have aerial attacks,mechs do have the skill that allows them to jump on platforms,but it takes a bit to land,and a little bit longer to attack afterwards,where as mercedes doesn't have to worry about that,considering she can jump up ropes with ease and attack as soon as she gets off the rope,phantom also has a teleport like skill,so they have an easier way to traverse as well,when it comes to bossing,you need more then just raw power,you need some kind of mobility,and mech doesn't have it.

mobbing is more or less the same,mechs have the power,but in this case,they lack the speed to kill a mob compared to any other class,i would put mech at the bottom for mobs,simply because i've seen every other class kill a good size mob faster then a mech,summons are good but they don't really do the job.

for bossing,i'd say mercedes and phantom is a time,seeing how phantom can steal hurricane for the lack of range,albeit mercedes ishtar ring hits 1monster twice to a bowmasters 1x1,they're the same speed,for multiple targets,i'd say phantom tho.

and for mobbing,i'd probably have to go with Ice lightning,seeing is how chain lightning not only hits 5monsters 6 times,but also the fact that it travels like lightning,meaning the mobs don't even have to be on the same platform,it'll make it's own mob,CL is usally best used at higher platforms,because it travels downward and not up,least i don't think it can go upwards.[/quote]

Err, please stop trying to sound so smart. Night Lords and Phantoms can only hit up to 999,999 a shot like every other class. Mercedes and Mechanics hit a lot faster though, therefore giving them potential to be the stronger (1v1 wise anyways).

phantom and night lord have the highest potential in the game,simply because of their multipliers,but when you add unlimited funding into the mix,then the usually go's to the person with better control,i'm refering to any class/person who has more handling.

With unlimited funding,potential is thrown out the window,seeing how everyone can hit the cap,therefore no potential is needed.

now,as far as bossing and mobbing,you have to take in all the situations that come into play,such as boss spawns,buffs and debuffs if there any.A mech might be good in some situations,granted most bosses take forever to cast buffs on themselves,but it doesn't mean they will be good in others,alot of people here are saying that mechs are good because of siege and or summons,but no one has bothered mentioned the failsafe that happens after shooting 100 times,which stops you from attacking until you move from your current spot,i'm not trying to insult people here,but these things are what people tend to forget about,zakum is probably the only boss where you can usually stand still and wail on him,since all of the other bosses move,or they are much larger.

Alot of people also talk about mechs killing zakum in 12 seconds,that's not really hard,considering zakum is the lowest major boss in the game,i dout you'll ever see 12second horntail or pb runs.

We all know about Horntail and it's body,unless a mech starts from the top and works his way down,i can't see a mech killing horntail faster,then a mercedes,simply because mercedes are more versatile and they have aerial attacks,mechs do have the skill that allows them to jump on platforms,but it takes a bit to land,and a little bit longer to attack afterwards,where as mercedes doesn't have to worry about that,considering she can jump up ropes with ease and attack as soon as she gets off the rope,phantom also has a teleport like skill,so they have an easier way to traverse as well,when it comes to bossing,you need more then just raw power,you need some kind of mobility,and mech doesn't have it.

mobbing is more or less the same,mechs have the power,but in this case,they lack the speed to kill a mob compared to any other class,i would put mech at the bottom for mobs,simply because i've seen every other class kill a good size mob faster then a mech,summons are good but they don't really do the job.

for bossing,i'd say mercedes and phantom is a time,seeing how phantom can steal hurricane for the lack of range,albeit mercedes ishtar ring hits 1monster twice to a bowmasters 1x1,they're the same speed,for multiple targets,i'd say phantom tho.

and for mobbing,i'd probably have to go with Ice lightning,seeing is how chain lightning not only hits 5monsters 6 times,but also the fact that it travels like lightning,meaning the mobs don't even have to be on the same platform,it'll make it's own mob,CL is usally best used at higher platforms,because it travels downward and not up,least i don't think it can go upwards.

your phantom

Mercedes in terms of pure 1v1 damage,
Phantom or Mechanic for Multiple targets,
Phantom for higher level boss situations.

[quote=Aquablader71]Angelic Burster, with enough funding she can hit 99,999,999 dmg in one shot enough to 1 hit ko Zakum's first form.[/quote]
Hyper Skills + new revamped versions of 3th + 4th job skills will come to all classes. These may have the same new cap also ^^

[quote=fraddBS]Well, since Siege and other attacks have a time limit and cooldown, we need to put it this way:

What will do the most DPS in 5 minutes of attacking a monster.[/quote]

There is no cooldown on Siege anymore, and no time limit. It's summon and Ultimate can break damage cap (there's a mech that can do 70m with one ultimate). So Mech wins with unlimited funding.

mobbing is definitely phantom.

[quote=Waddles]@CardPony No that won't cut it, although it is high Merc have summon and Ishtar can still deal faster and much more dmg.[/quote]Trust me, he's actually right. If they had unlimited funding, DoT could go way past 100mil, it's really insane I know, but that's the power of FP mages.

[quote=Rtyu]@CardPony:
You say the girl had a 400k clean range and then said she has a 600k clean range. The other guy says she had 650k. He makes more sense, and I'm inclined to believe him(not that 600k clean is even high enough for 150m).
[/quote]

I (think I) said 650k on apple, double alchemy pot, ada, amp, advanced bless and the lot. In the party, she asked for Drum's range (700k mercedes on ada/amp/ab), she promptly used an apple and said "you're higher than me, 650k here".

[quote=CardPony]Actually she had 100% BD and 9% matk on her wep. But still it's possible to get 150m DoT in GMS. 1 matk% is worth 2.8888% BD btw.[/quote]

Recubed good stats like 20 times lol... I'm still curious seeing as HeatoN was easily better geared than Sandra in the last month (He was over 500% int lmao) but my friend told me he never came close to Sandra's DOT on buffs... Doped/350k+, Alyssa/350k+ and Lightnings/330k+ (not counting %magic at all) all had something like 150%+ boss but nobody ever saw them hitting over 150m at all or really coming close on any monster (even in HeBPQ).

before Angelic Burster comes out? Mechanic if you really had unlimited funding. See, summons don't have damage caps, and Mechs have the strongest summons (Rock n Shock, Bots n Tots, Satellites , and their ultimate counts as a summon) Also siege is amazing.

[quote=Momijii]Probably not. Mercedes and Mechanics have more hits per second. It may cost more for them to hit cap, but this is an infinite funding scenario, therefore they win.[/quote]
for bossing yes, but for mobbing nothing beats phantom as he hits like 16.82 times a second/monster while hitting 6 monsters and max damage on all hits. and depending on the boss phantoms tempest skill is the best (zakum arms)

@CardPony:

CO adds an extra 10% or so, huge woop. It's not that big of a difference... Her wand was also only 30/40% boss, 18% magic attack (which basically made her hit 400k clean range).

[quote=CardPony]@zomgwdfbbqlol @Rtyu LOL wow it seems neither of you know anything about this game. Don't feel bad though the rest of Basil seems to be in the same boat as you. 600k clean range >Infinity at peak x3+ 1.8m range even though it will say [b]999999 >1200% DoT x12 > 21.6m[/b] >300% TD x4 since TD and BD stack we can put them in the same category 86.4m >elemental advantage x2 172.8m DoT. And actually Infinity could probably increase even more then x3 depending on your matk, aswell you could get a much higher clean range then 600k with unlimited funding. Do some research kthx.[/quote]

what

I did my research and it shows that Mage's Infinity is affected by Buff Mastery like this:

Buff Duration x1.5

Infinity: 10% damage per 4 seconds for 40 seconds -> 10% damage per [b]6[/b] seconds for 60 seconds.

How can you get a variable increase in Infinity if all you're doing is this:

(4*10000+1500)*(1)*(900/100) -> (4*10000+1500)*(1)*(1800/100)

Description:
Permanently increases Magic ATT. Duration of all the buffs applicable to self will increase upon using skill. An On/Off skill that is activated when the skill is used and deactivated when the skill is used again.

Level 10: Permanently increases magic ATT by 30. Buff duration increased by 50% upon using skill.

Description:
Enables one to use skills without spending mana, and power stance effect will trigger on hit with a set probability. Continues to recover HP and MP and increases the damage of all attack magic. [Cooldown: 3 min]

Level 30: MP Cost: 80, Recovers HP and MP by 10% every 4 secs, Increases damage by Magic ATT by 10% every 4 sec, Chance of Activation Power Stance Effect: 70%, Duration: 40 sec

http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/2428297/0/Buff_Mastery_and_Infinity.html
http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/2301424/0/Good_news_for_all_mages.html
http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/1729758/0/How_does_infinity_skill_work.html

(Apologies for everyone else reading this thread if you bothered to go this far lol)

M-E-C-H-A-N-I-C.

A lot of summons,especially his ultimate that can hit 20m+ if well funded.and way more summons.
Merc-20 sec something solo zakum
Mech-14 sec solo zakum

The best proof/argument.

Anyways...

how can you have over 100% damage reduction lol... unless you can hit blue numbers now

and according to:

(4*INT + LUK)*(weapon multiplier)*(matt/100), if you add 10000 and 1500, 900 magic (buff mastery included) and 1.0 for staff/wand (close to sandra's stats): 373500. buff up the magic to 2000 and you get 747000, ok... exactly double 373500, it's basically the same as %td if your multiplier is a flat 1.

Phantom's formula: (4*LUK+DEX)*(1.3)*(att/100), 10000 luk, 1500 dex, 800 attack (losing out on earrings/weapon) and 1.3 for cane (close to Pheno's stats): 431600 . Because of the multiplier, Phantom's range is higher...

431600, 450% DOT, holy weak.

F/Ps have only AA (8%), Burning Magic (10%, I think it applies to DOT). I don't think Elemental Amplification applies to DOT, but it's a 50% extra totaling an extra 68%... 1200x1.68=~2000% hitting 150m+ at a 650k buffed range, while Pheno (scaled to infinity) hits about 30m holy weak at 450% with the 600k buffed he had, but what's this from before?

[quote=CardPony]They have around 1600% DoT[/quote]

please dont be pulling crap out of your butt-hole now...

Evan? o-o

I have no idea... Phantom is pretty good right now (if you don't mention the nerf they get in the future).

i love how everyone saids mechanic, but barly anyone plays them

@CardPony:

But then that doesn't really explain desgracia hitting 1/4 of Sandra's DOT with the same range... I just know that infinity boosted damage by 200% while Buff Mastery gave 50 int. Even after infinity, Pheno would be hitting only 18m on neutral and 30m on holy weak using a 450% DOT. He also had something like 200-300% boss (lol) which he used on Snack Bar (low def) while Sandra was using only 1 weapon; her wand was definitely less than 100%.

If there were no skill changes after nerf, F/P and Phantoms should've been on equal ground...

[quote=CardPony]Lolwut, you seem to have a bad memory. Only thieves Venom was tripled and F/P didn't have that 1.2x multiplier or +% to their DoT after their nerf, which was when she hit that 158m.[/quote]

My bad on the jobs, didn't remember too much but all jobs had their DOT boosted. I remember her attempting to 1 hit the first hell PQ boss when I was with her back in April or something and she hit something like 168m that time. Also... The nerf was definitely after she quit since HeatoN/Desgracia was popping a good 400k clean range and only hitting 30-40m DOT on CPB statues, 40-50m on Infinity (admittingly not on full buffs or fire weak, but those do not make up for the 120m+ difference...)

On the last day (obviously after the nerf lol), I also went DOT testing with Pheno's Phantom and he was on a 400k clean range using AR (450% dot) and hitting just 9-15m..?

For 1v1 damage, Mech. For mobbing damage, I would think maybe a Shadower with meso explosion? Idk.

[quote=Rtyu]@CardPony: No, I'm saying she would need 1m range before buffs like ADA and Amplifier. Infinity only at most doubles your damage for 6 seconds.What is TD?
Also, are you talking about a PS like that guy said? lol[/quote]

Yes, Sandra was from the PS Arcane...-insert maplestory-

inb4 suspension but @CardPony , get your mind wrapped around the skill changes there.

EDIT: zomgwdfbbqlol Arcane didn't change the damage formula for F/P after their nerf. And she hit 150m way after that nerf took place. And no what she did on Arcane can be done on GMS aswell. Ofc it would be a lot easier on there due to free cubes/5L items but still possible.

the large f/p nerf im talking about was 2 months after she quit lololol

[quote=CardPony]I don't have any proof but why would I be making this up? And you're saying she would need a 1m clean range to hit 150m? lolwut? Dude it's called Infinity, it's a super OP skill they have which increases their matk% by A LOT. Which btw 1% matk = 2.8888% TD with a lot of matk. And no she was the only one attacking the boss. She had ADA, Onyx Apple, CO, and Amplifier and something else. And my bad I got 1600% because I added the summon which also breaks the damage cap.[/quote]

sandra was only in the 650k fully buffed when she could hit the 158m she ss'd

If you don't realize how BIG the changes were in DOT, they were TRIPLED for ALL jobs and F/P had an extra 1.2x multiplier as well as some +% to certain DOT skills.

[quote=CardPony]@zomgwdfbbqlol @FrazzledLeaf First of all 999999 isn't the cap for your range. It will show 999999 but it's actually higher. I've done tests with this myself. Secondly you seem to be forgetting BD/TD which can go up to 500%, making your DoT 6 times higher. DoT also completely ignores all PDR and enemy def making it a lot stronger on bosses like Cygnus or Arkyrum. And I know for a fact F/P would win. My friend Sandra had a 400k clean range and with a bunch of party buffs her DoT hit 150m. I saw it with my own eyes. And no it wasn't 15m. Also Bleve is actually pathetically weak compared to some people. And actually Angelic Buster is weak as hell. Her damage cap breaking skills have a massive cooldown. Not to mention their DoT skills can work on multiple enemies at once. And finally no it isn't that hard to use all your DoT skills at once I've played one myself.[/quote]

I thought you were from Arcane, now I'm sure. Arcane had certain skill changes which boosted ALL DOT to a massive extent. hell, MageNewb had been hitting 70m on CPB itself even after the nerf on altered DOT with just a 270k clean range+hero's gloves, we duo'd CPB every day and after seeing other GMS F/Ps go bossing, there is a WORLD of a difference between Sandra in Arcane and a mirror of Sandra in GMS. Do you understand the difference between a PS and GMS now?

Mechanic.

with unlimited funding? I would think every class would be hitting max damage lool.

[quote=Rtyu]You would need 37500% worth of damage perrcentage to hit 150m. It's impossible.[/quote]

He said with party buffs. So probably SE, amplifier, ADA, Rage, etc.

[quote=CardPony]@zomgwdfbbqlol @FrazzledLeaf First of all 999999 isn't the cap for your range. It will show 999999 but it's actually higher. I've done tests with this myself. Secondly you seem to be forgetting BD/TD which can go up to 500%, making your DoT 6 times higher. DoT also completely ignores all PDR and enemy def making it a lot stronger on bosses like Cygnus or Arkyrum. And I know for a fact F/P would win. My friend Sandra had a 400k clean range and with a bunch of party buffs her DoT hit 150m. I saw it with my own eyes. And no it wasn't 15m. Also Bleve is actually pathetically weak compared to some people. And actually Angelic Buster is weak as hell. Her damage cap breaking skills have a massive cooldown. No
t to mention their DoT skills can work on multiple enemies at once. And finally no it isn't that hard to use all your DoT skills at once I've played one myself.[/quote]

I thought in 4th job your affinity skill makes you recharge so often that you can basically spam your hard hitting skills

phantom with 100% crit
milles x2
cart noir on every hit
pre much makes cart hit 3 times

mechanic
siege hits more per second than RoI by 1 or 2 hits i think
with it's summons
summons can hit more than max

whichever one has the most attacks per second with the greatest area and mobs/atk

angelic burster...that trinity skill can hit 50 mill and the tornado can hit 100 mill

the whole world would benefit so much from unlimited funds, i.e. rl

[quote=Kazzooey]iirc, Pierce does have a cap. It's capped at like 2.1m damage or something. So the max you can do per mob is 6-7m damage. And phantoms still beat that out with Ultimate Drive since that hits somewhere between 8-12 hits per second meaning8-12m damage per second.[/quote]

it has a cap.... 3m on the first monster 3.6 on the next 1.2x that on the next and so on til 8 wich i believe is almost 8-9m on the last and tap speed is VERY fast

Mechanic.

[quote=CardPony]You're all wrong. DoT doesn't have a damage cap so F/P would win hands down.[/quote]

your range only goes up to 999999 which isn't enough to be hitting 20m+ dot to beat merc/phantom/mech

OT: 1v1 Angelic Burster (dur), Mercedes, Mechanic, DB, Phantom. Mobbing Angelic Burster (...) Phantom, F/P maybe I guess.

@CardPony:

Some summons have no damage cap, certain Mechanics can hit 50-100m in KMS/JMS. Also, Capping Mercs will easily hit over 1m with their summon... Not to mention the fire summon has a small DOT as well.

bleve hits something like 1.7m DOT fully buffed here with cheese and extra alchemy potions (though off infinity)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEfsn_HKFbk&list=PL37F97207F2DE5E05&index=1&feature=plcp

The only way you're going to be outdamaging the 1v1 spam jobs is on the last few seconds of infinity... And then the cooldown comes lol. Just because they have the highest DOTs in the game doesn't mean that it's enough to overpower the other jobs

i think mechanic but doesnt their skill have a cooldown? phantom might be able to hit more in their cool down...

Marksmen can hit over the dmg cap

[quote=Firestone160]Finally the first to realize that. Pierce has no dmg cap on most of its hits anyway, hits 8 monsters per attack, and you can tap it. Beat that .[/quote]

iirc, Pierce does have a cap. It's capped at like 2.1m damage or something. So the max you can do per mob is 6-7m damage. And phantoms still beat that out with Ultimate Drive since that hits somewhere between 8-12 hits per second meaning8-12m damage per second.

Wild hunters right now

Triple Fire + Enduring Fire = 8 hit hurricane.

[quote=chucksnorris]Marksmen for mobbing, if you can fund to where you can tap pierce and hit 3 maxes first hit you win over any other mobber.....
edit: i have no numbers to compare it to it just seems legit.... i mean if the first hits all hit max then 1.2m and so on and all your doing is tapping the button (which suprisingly fires real fast) then i'm sure they gotta be one of the best....[/quote]
Finally the first to realize that. Pierce has no dmg cap on most of its hits anyway, hits 8 monsters per attack, and you can tap it. Beat that .

I just did a thread about this a few weeks ago. I gave the damage per second for each class (Mech vs Merc) if they both had a range of 999,999 ~ 999,999. It turns out they are almost exactly the same at about 35m damage per second average. I accounted for summons damage (no cap), summon hits per second, crit rate (only applies to summons since ishtar/siege hit max already), and Damage Over Time.

The results were that They both had a potential of hitting 35m per second average. But they both have their pros and cons:
Mechanic Pros: Immune to Stun in siege mode, 100% Stance, Summons can cover a huge range of the map, super long ranged, fairly good durability, awesome party support (if you have a party)
Mech Cons: Not as quick on their feet, must set up their summons, lack of Defense Ignore

Mercedes Pros: Quick and on the fly, no need to set up summons, decent amount of Defense Ignore, Pretty good mobbing
Merc Cons: Still get knocked back, easily killed/squishy, absolutely no party support (if you have a party)

Marksmen for mobbing, if you can fund to where you can tap pierce and hit 3 maxes first hit you win over any other mobber.....
edit: i have no numbers to compare it to it just seems legit.... i mean if the first hits all hit max then 1.2m and so on and all your doing is tapping the button (which suprisingly fires real fast) then i'm sure they gotta be one of the best....

It's Mechanic. They have tons of summons like that bot-n-tot, the satellites, and that rock-shock thing. And the most important thing is infinite siege mode.

As for he aspect, it's usually bossing. But i don't see why mechs cant go around spamming lasers in mobbing.

Overall: Mechanic