General

You realize if you actually learned to get full control over the playing style, you can utilize the skills properly and not be limited to using just blast and octo... and the iframes were nice but they "removed" them but skilled buccs could still manage. But why rely solely on iframes?

I only noticed buccs like the day before their revamp and I was like omg that is so beast. So I go and make one and try to level it up to 120+. I failed I got to like 90 before I had to go and the next day I was like wtf the totally messed up buccs but as u can see I still main it.

[quote=PhaseOfFact]I decided not to post my opinion because I was too lazy to type out everything I wanted to say, but it seems we have pretty much the same opinion. Also note that debuff canceled all buffs from Super Transformation, which was really really annoying.[/quote]

Definitely true, though I believe it was considered a glitch at some point and was fixed barely before the revamp.

Now looking through some of the comment, I believe people who prefer the old bucc never went to the high end bosses, especially ones where you are allowed to die. Bucc was the job that gets penalized the most when dying.

i-frames are outdated. Barrage and Demo's i-frames don't work on the new bosses like Magnus's attacks or Vellum's fireballs (which in my opinion actually made the game less balanced. It really doesn't make sense why the tanky Paladin or a Bucc dies in the same number of hits as a Mercedes. In fact, Buccs die faster with the lack of mobility to dodge). Moreover, they make you a sitting duck as the delay plants you in one spot for a few seconds.

[quote=PlayThatMelody]A statement can be made with or without evidence. Since you're completely unconvinced, all that I can really do is explain my view.

I-frames lack the use they had a long time back simply because of how feeble it is to sacrifice DPS over small periods of invincibility. Training monsters nowadays pose close to no threat that requires i-frames (which even when damaged, can be healed by a simple potion) and I can't think of many situations where SSK or hugging can't substitute as a method of avoiding 1/1's during bosses.

Demolition is simply outdated due to its ridiculous delay (that stuck you to the ground after you finished) and targeting range. The delay and huge damage compilation in one attack was an interesting feature but was completely disadvantageous to upper funded players who would strike cap damage Pre-Unlimited, and especially after the "damage boosts" people claim will balance out the class. Now that it's Unlimited though, there still would be problems. Demolition also had the problem of having a large reach that conflicted with targetting, which is advantageous until you have multiple boss phases along with summons that can withstand multiple attacks. If you've ever gone to bosses such as Von Leon, Zakum, Chaos Zakum, Arkarium, Empress, Pink Bean, or Hilla before the revamp, you'd know that once the boss loses target priority, you essentially waste a Demolition cast on a mob and then proceed to waste more time eliminating the mobs until there's nothing but the one you want to attack in Demolition range. Demolition's i-frames also make little to no difference against bosses who resist flinching (hard to knockback) and often times just sets you up for punishment if they're mobile. In training situations, it is now more viable to spam a mobbing move than to use an overkill long delay attack.

Super Transformation is flawed for the two most common reasons: it covered a character's looks and was an extreme burden to higher tier bossing. Buccaneers were entirely centered around Demolition as their primary source of DPS and when it comes to high risk damage (Damage Reflect, Potion Cooldown, Seduce, Instant Kill, etc), death isn't uncommon. Dying in revivable maps (Hilla, Von Leon, Magnus, Arkarium, Aswan, Wheel of Destinies, and many others) made the Super Transformation cooldown extremely tedious to deal with and having to rely on Barrage as a last resort was all the more painstaking. The same applies to situations where your character goes through a forced morph.

At this point, I can't see how having BSB has any application (besides...stun?) that could be better than anything we have today. As stated earlier, i-frame rushing doesn't play a large role anymore since it should never be a burden to just heal with a potion and is simply slower than today's method of rushing.

I personally liked Barrage but it suffered almost the same problem as Demolition did; only, it did less damage than Demolition and had considerably less applications. I never understood what good Barrage was after Big Bang (except knockback, boss holding, and a Demolition connection) since Demolition was almost always active and Barrage could not be spammed. The reason Nexon also decided to change the increasing damage to consistent damage was because of its damage instability (for those stating that they would prefer low to high Barrages).

I'm sure there's quite more but I can't see the old playstyle surviving today without considerable buffs.[/quote]

I decided not to post my opinion because I was too lazy to type out everything I wanted to say, but it seems we have pretty much the same opinion. Also note that debuff canceled all buffs from Super Transformation, which was really really annoying.

[quote=ch33syp00fs]How? You just can't make a statement without supporting it with evidence.

For example, I like cereal because you can eat it for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

Now you try! [/quote]

A statement can be made with or without evidence. Since you're completely unconvinced, all that I can really do is explain my view.

I-frames lack the use they had a long time back simply because of how feeble it is to sacrifice DPS over small periods of invincibility. Training monsters nowadays pose close to no threat that requires i-frames (which even when damaged, can be healed by a simple potion) and I can't think of many situations where SSK or hugging can't substitute as a method of avoiding 1/1's during bosses.

Demolition is simply outdated due to its ridiculous delay (that stuck you to the ground after you finished) and targeting range. The delay and huge damage compilation in one attack was an interesting feature but was completely disadvantageous to upper funded players who would strike cap damage Pre-Unlimited, and especially after the "damage boosts" people claim will balance out the class. Now that it's Unlimited though, there still would be problems. Demolition also had the problem of having a large reach that conflicted with targetting, which is advantageous until you have multiple boss phases along with summons that can withstand multiple attacks. If you've ever gone to bosses such as Von Leon, Zakum, Chaos Zakum, Arkarium, Empress, Pink Bean, or Hilla before the revamp, you'd know that once the boss loses target priority, you essentially waste a Demolition cast on a mob and then proceed to waste more time eliminating the mobs until there's nothing but the one you want to attack in Demolition range. Demolition's i-frames also make little to no difference against bosses who resist flinching (hard to knockback) and often times just sets you up for punishment if they're mobile. In training situations, it is now more viable to spam a mobbing move than to use an overkill long delay attack.

Super Transformation is flawed for the two most common reasons: it covered a character's looks and was an extreme burden to higher tier bossing. Buccaneers were entirely centered around Demolition as their primary source of DPS and when it comes to high risk damage (Damage Reflect, Potion Cooldown, Seduce, Instant Kill, etc), death isn't uncommon. Dying in revivable maps (Hilla, Von Leon, Magnus, Arkarium, Aswan, Wheel of Destinies, and many others) made the Super Transformation cooldown extremely tedious to deal with and having to rely on Barrage as a last resort was all the more painstaking. The same applies to situations where your character goes through a forced morph.

At this point, I can't see how having BSB has any application (besides...stun?) that could be better than anything we have today. As stated earlier, i-frame rushing doesn't play a large role anymore since it should never be a burden to just heal with a potion and is simply slower than today's method of rushing.

I personally liked Barrage but it suffered almost the same problem as Demolition did; only, it did less damage than Demolition and had considerably less applications. I never understood what good Barrage was after Big Bang (except knockback, boss holding, and a Demolition connection) since Demolition was almost always active and Barrage could not be spammed. The reason Nexon also decided to change the increasing damage to consistent damage was because of its damage instability (for those stating that they would prefer low to high Barrages).

I'm sure there's quite more but I can't see the old playstyle surviving today without considerable buffs.

@ch33syp00fs:

IKR. And snatch sucked lol. But that could have been easily replaced with some 4th job buff. Same thing for that other energy skill.

I played bucc when it was snatch demo barrage style. I prefer this dragon strike> lazer> octo punch. THough i would like a transformation to return because the animation for energy charge doesnt look too cool to me. Looks over exaggerated.

Cheer up red we get flash jump, can use Dragon strike in the air. and the charge system will actually not be lazer>on ,no lazer>off. Instead we will always be charging energy and choose how to spend it.

[quote=Momijii]There was a post a couple months ago at the very latest that analyzed how old Buccs were hugely flawed in their gameplay style. And, contrary to what many with nostalgia boners have to say, was actually still poor game design. If I can find it (or rather will myself to find it), I'll link it to you.

@Singaporean: Unless they made Barrage and Demo deal the exact same amount of damage, or at least reasonably close (8900% for Barrage and 9000% for Demo, for example), that wouldn't solve the problem at all.[/quote]

That makes NO SENSE whatsoever. Demo was the premier skill for buccs. The bread and butter bossing move. Barrage can't be close to demo. What i'm saying is, they could buff demo damage and barrage damage but most certainly demo should have been stronger. Also, barrage should have been reverted to old school barrage where the damage kept climbing each line. dmg % increases would be applied where necessary.

There was barely any flaw in the old gameplay design other than the fact that rarely, i-frames didn't activate and they kept increasing the range of barrage. We use fists, why are we punching a target like 50 feet away? Other than that there was really no flaws. I'm not simply someone with a "nostalgia boner" here. I've done 30 straight levels on anego back in the day just by controlling my bucc like a boss. Bucc was the class I originally decided to play forever until it got smushed. I can guarantee you, I know EVERYTHING about the playstyle.

Bleh atleast we get fj

[quote=ch33syp00fs]How? You just can't make a statement without supporting it with evidence.

For example, I like cereal because you can eat it for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

Now you try! [/quote]
There was a post a couple months ago at the very latest that analyzed how old Buccs were hugely flawed in their gameplay style. And, contrary to what many with nostalgia boners have to say, was actually still poor game design. If I can find it (or rather will myself to find it), I'll link it to you.

@Singaporean: Unless they made Barrage and Demo deal the exact same amount of damage, or at least reasonably close (8900% for Barrage and 9000% for Demo, for example), that wouldn't solve the problem at all.

Ugh buccs really got screwed throughout the years. Buccs were still viable but they had to change it completely. Since barrage was slow, all they had to do was up the dmg % on it. Same for demo just to keep up with crowd a bit. I wish we still had the i-frames as that took good control to use efficiently. They honestly should have just made dragon strike 1000% already (cuz it's pretty close) and added a 3rd line. Would have made up for slow cast. Also, dragon dancing was not bad at all. In fact, they could have greatly improved csb and made it hit like 5 times at like 300% dmg or something.

@above: How far did you get on your bucc before it was revamped? Just curious.

While i have to admit old pre-bb bucc was the funniest, the new bucc is somewhat alright, i do miss transformation though. The only reason im keeping my bucc is because he's a UA and im hoping nexon does something with UA's like giving them a mix of Cygnus Knights skills with their regular skills.

I prefer the way Buccaneers are now. And I made my character on day 1.

[quote=RubberDonkey]I feel like people hate laser because cannoneer got it first. If bucc had got their revamp before the release of cannoneer, the hate will be toward them instead.

And people wanting bucc to become like tb. So you guys want both knuckle using jobs to have the same system just different theme? Are you trying to make bucc be the new "jett"?[/quote]
don't forget mihiles laser. what if they took night lords, and instead of quad throw they got throwing star laser?

I feel like people hate laser because cannoneer got it first. If bucc had got their revamp before the release of cannoneer, the hate will be toward them instead.

And people wanting bucc to become like tb. So you guys want both knuckle using jobs to have the same system just different theme? Are you trying to make bucc be the new "jett"?

[quote=ch33syp00fs]I came back after 2 years about 3 weeks ago, and I was bummed about what Nexon did to my favorite class, the Bucc. He was my first ever main that I stuck with. Starting from 2008 to when I left in 2011, I got him up to 150 Pre-BigBang at Jr. Newties & Skelegons/Skelosaurus', which actually felt like I achieved something unlike the spoiled kids today complaining about the EXP curve. Even getting to your 3rd job was a big accomplishment. Training was never boring too, but awesome, Barrage+DS combos, I-Frames, and how I miss Super Transformation followed by spamming Demo. When I tried to see how the feel of playing my Bucc felt upon my return, it just wasn't the same. What I miss the most of the old Maple was selling BF leech, it just wasn't about the mesos, but was the result of ACTUAL SKILL & hardwork to get to a point where you wouldn't even get touched once and die. My best kill time was about 7 minutes. Good times, good times.....

@masterzero: You my friend clearly have not played a Bucc in the golden days where there were no % Equips. I would have rather preferred Nexon to keep everything with how Buccs were in the past including gameplay & skills, but just simply improve their damage if anything to coincide with the updated monsters & bosses. Also, maybe a skill like FJ would've really helped back then with our mobility, and still today, which is the only thing I would've ever added back then to this class that fit perfectly with me.[/quote]

And well , you're completely wrong , because I joined korea maple a day or two before the first pirate revamp , months before I got hacked *cofcofdbleakcofcof* on gms , my marauder was still kicking before big bang , and even if I got to viper only after it , I didn't have ever enough money ( I couldn't trade nx due to being non US ) I never had more than... maybe a 3 % overall or some other thrash

The ones who cry for bucc combo playstyle MAY have a point ,but the ones who does for the comeback of transformation DON'T , a cd that was required 100 % of the time and didn't show your character was just... plain retarded

You should keep something in your mind tho , there's NO WAY unless gms decides to do some pineapple that pirates are going back to your beloved state , because 1rst , for many people there are GOOD right now , and second , after this second revamp which only fine-tuned the systems we had already , don't expect them to trash their work and go back to where they were before , so man up and bare with the lasers or change class already

a gift for you btw http://imgur.com/sEKa2mN

Wasn't Transformation a total hindrance more than an asset?

Most of the old Buccaneer game mechanics are completely outdated.

*Whisper* Why are people still complaining about the Mutiny patch that happened 1 year ago...

@ch33syp00fs: I feel you sir. I still miss bigfoot. Good times...

@masterzero I didn't mean go back to the old maple haha I meant like making us what a real pirate should be, not shooting lazers and what not. I wan't to be able to chain skills together so that bucc's are more smooth

[quote=marioluigi52]I'm keeping my buccaneer until Maple releases Zero, if it changes for the better than i'll keep him and keep playing but if it's terrible, than I am going to quit maple because i don't want to waste time anymore [/quote]

If "Change for the better" means going back to the old bucc you can quit maple now... Bucc got greatly improved but didn't add any new skill , but for that reason the revamp feels even greater , because they did a great buff not just adding some % to the skills or addin new ones altogether

I'm keeping my buccaneer until Maple releases Zero, if it changes for the better than i'll keep him and keep playing but if it's terrible, than I am going to quit maple because i don't want to waste time anymore

Making a TB it is then! So they can get to 200? or is it still 120? Just wondering I don't read up on the updates.

I believe new boss % health attacks bypass invincibility frames, so it wouldn't have helped us anyway and we'd have been the weakest class by a huge margin.

Barrage...the perfect skill. Not only did it have invincibility frames, but it actually showed the Buccaneer physically attacking the monster with his own strikes, not just shooting a laser. I also miss the charge on Corkscrew Blow

[quote=didimanga]whats the i frames?[/quote]

back then with right timing and the spamming of attacks, buccs wouldn't get hit by a monsters skills while spamming their main attack. Those brief invincible frames made it possible for buccs to solo bigfoot which at one point used to do anywhere from 13kish touch damage to 5xkish (when nexon glitched it). Back in the day, only an hp washed character could survive a bigfoot touch or an hbed warrior for the most part (we didn't have the character card system or potential).

I want transformation back and more skills that combo into each other

I'm switching to the new thunder breaker/striker revamp because I love chaining attacks together in smooth fashion what I envisioned the RED Bucc revamp would resemble but no, nexon once again screws up and they STILL keep shockwave. Like really? My mind exploded how they enhanced our laser and kept our useless shockwave. And I absolutely beg them to give us our Drain skill back. Without that, I waste HP pots like it's no big deal, and I never touch my MP pots cause its so easy to charge our energy (Another thing they need to get rid of) and our attacks cost so little MP. I am really disappointed with the way Nexon handled the punching class that the Buccaneer once was.
Oh, and they didn't even bother changing the animation of Dragon Strike, it's still the same as it was Pre-BB. If you guys can enhance a laser, at least change our DS animation, hell even the color.

I miss the barrel

i am a shad

Those invincible frames > any damage boost; Only a well funded bucc now a days if they kept the old format could have potentially been soloing near impossible bosses thanks to i frames >.<

The thought of playing the pre-bb or bb version of bucc in our current patch gives me the shivers... I had a taste of it last summer when our revamp was delayed. Azwan+unrevamp bucc= last straw, give me revamp now!

I will quit maple before i quit my bucc.

And it isnt only buccs saddly that are becoming like this,almost ALL classes are becoming a reskin of eachother(everyone has lazers,FJ,shadow,etc now). The uniqueness of classes and the strengths and weaknesses of different classes almost dont exist anymore.

This. Sadly ive come to conclusion of quitting my bucc and moving on to another class. Its just nexon has been messing up buccs more and more. Its time to move on.

All pf my yes! I deleted my 201 bucc because of the absolute garbage they became. I held out to see what they did in RED and it was the final push.

I miss our beautiful combos and iFrames. I miss our unique play style. It was a class where I GNF for dammage whatsoever. It was just pure fun.

Yes Yes 100x yes. We're just one of them now... I FEEL YOU BRAHH