General

Why do all people really fail at seperating morals from religions? Religions are not a good moral guide, it's a good guide to be a mindless sheep who cannot think for himself.

I guess, religion in a way helps keep order.
so if there wasn't religion, there would be more um.. icky stuff going on in the world because there wouldn't be the 'standards' to fulfil anymore and to abide by.
.. and we'd all be more icky.

[quote=infiniteIQx]Religion made ethics a standard in society, so I think the world would be much worse. =/[/quote]

That's not true at all. Ethics became a standard pretty recently. A few hundred years ago people would be getting hanged in public because they didn't believe in what the church did. Laws and ethics weren't really concrete until society learned to be rational. Heck, in jesus' time it was "pray or be stoned to death". If we followed religion as it was meant to be, non-straight people would be put to death. We started to accept people because humans became moral without religion.

I think society would be different, I also think people would be a lot more accepting, gay marriage would probably be passed everywhere. I think we would be more advance in technology aswell. Without religion, the qorld would be a much better place.

Quite a blunt one.

[quote=KingstonStars]0/10

What if your think that racism is right; or that throwing around your body to everyone and anyone is right.
[b]proper[/b] moral standards are the way to go. Everyone thinks that the only Christians around are the one's who cast damnation's on anyone who is doing something that they think is bad. That's actually only a tiny small percent of Christians, in fact, it's probably from television or fiction.[/quote]

Ever heard of statistics?

@ReLaX: You know it.

[quote=Archetype]@ReLaX: Did I make a statement about any of them?[/quote]

Nope, but you must have left them for some reason.

We'd be in a more advanced civilization.

[quote=FurFarm]Utopia.[/quote]
Stole the words right out of my mouth.

The world would be a better place, think of all the people that would have been saved. WWI's Ottoman Empire, Jewish extermination campaign of WWII are just a few to name

[quote=KingstonStars]0/10

ON THREAD -----

1. Less moral standards = More killing, more prostitution, etc. etc. (Literally just [b]PURE ANARCHY[/b]
/end thread[/quote]

Not justified

We would have no killing due to religion, more rational people, and science would have existed much, much farther.

@bloodIsShed OMG! No Angel Beats! T.T

[quote=TrippyZeros]More like we don't have the dark ages brought on by Christianity and we get to the moon in the 16th century.[/quote]

Okay. No. Christianity didn't bring the dark ages. Bandits, separation of Europe, and disease brought it.

@ReLaX: Did I make a statement about any of them?

[quote=Archetype]I'll leave these here:
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_thinkers_in_science][/url]
[url=http://www.adherents.com/people/100_Nobel.html][/url]
[url=http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html][/url]
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age][/url]
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_scientists][/url][/quote]

You seriously think they make a good case?

I'll leave these here:
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_thinkers_in_science][/url]
[url=http://www.adherents.com/people/100_Nobel.html][/url]
[url=http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html][/url]
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age][/url]
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_scientists][/url]

We would be more advance. Not only scientifically, but also as a specie.

your question is impossible to answer because there are way to many variables to factor in.
@askmiller
You are implying that morals came from religion, which they do not. Take the bible for example. A lot of people believe that our morals comes from the Bible, yet those same people say that we have to constantly re-evaluate it in order to fit it with our modern society. But there is an independent moral standard that we use to evaluate our actions, evaluate how we need to re-evaluate the bible.
And I believe the morality comes from our evolutionary background, not from religion.

Many of the world art would have never existed (ex. Michaelangelo's paintings).
There would be no statues honoring the gods in Greece
and the Statue of Liberty might have never existed. Actually, USA as we know it might have never existed. That's because the people moved here to escape the religion oppression (remember bloody Mary of England?).
And worst of all: there would be no Angel Beats.

[quote=askmiller]if there is no religion, there would be no atheism trying to prove religions wrong so our science would sux.

^lol[/quote]

Science isn't about proving religion wrong, nor is atheism.

[quote=GurenOokami]If religion didn't exist, neither would atheists, because atheism is the denial of religion. People would also respond to common sense more than personal beliefs, and those with a perverse view of the world because of their personal beliefs would be almost non-existent. We would be better off, but those whom live with religion deeply embedded to them would be deeply offended by such remarks, but then again that's what religion is designed to do.

I don't think there is a word for someone who truly has nothing to do with religion. Whatever it is if it does exist, I wish to be one of them.[/quote]

Atheism isn't denial of religion, it's the lack of faith in one or more deities. and atheists would exist.

@sutper:

Exactly. This is why my former post emphasizes how difficult this question is to answer.

[quote=xaidan]"morality does not come only from religion, it comes from education and other psychological behaviors/patterns"
i thought you were saying that, thinking that i was saying morality came from religion.[/quote]

Morality doesn't only come from religion, but the absence of religion throughout history will change the very ethics we deem acceptable today.

[quote=SmackBabies][b]PLEASE DO NOT START A FLAME WAR. KEEP THIS AS SIMPLE AS IT SHOULD BE[/b]

If religion cease to exist (includes: god was never heard of or used in any language; jesus wasn't born, etc etc)
what type of world would we be living on now? Explain why [/quote]

This is a very tricky question to answer.
Essentially you have to track down the foundation of religion. People created Theism to not only have an answer to existence, but the answer to humanity's dependence on other entities [such as animals and plants] as well as identifying ourselves. Without religion, where would we get our laws and our sense of morals? We certainly didn't come up with it through an Atheistic approach, but rather through a religious environment of us [b]being told[/b] that there is a difference between right and wrong [regardless of whether we made it up or it actually happened].

So without [b]religion[/b], you really have to ask "What will people replace [b]religion[/b] with?" You may or may not conclude that "religion" is just another "idea put through practice" [as much as science] that humans argue about. Whatever replaces religion will produce the same "religious" type of liberal/conservative, moderate and extreme personalities and therefore will become "religion" itself.

Very tricky question to answer. Almost as if it's a paradox to consider the absence of religion with humanity.

@xaidan: Not trying to be mean but when talking to someone in front of you it's pretty obvious, and by some type of commentaries too, but how am I supposed to know over the internet?

[quote=xaidan]but seeing as how all religion is bull.
is it really a good moral compass?

EDIT: did i say morality came from governments?
EDIT AGAIN: alright you win morality dose come from religion and there is no other way to be moral.
also atheists such as my self are evil.[/quote]

morality does not come only from religion, it comes from education and other psychological behaviors/patterns

And I doubt atheists are "evil", you see... we're going to hell for not beliving, but if you think of it, there are many nice people going to hell, and many bad people going to heaven just because they belive in something, that's one of the things why religion's way of telling who gets a better afterlife makes no sence.

And it is a good moral compass depending on the situation and the person, because there are many religious people that are a piece of ----

God isn't real anyways.

why dont u take AP world in high school or world history in college and ull find ur answer.

[quote=xaidan]actually i'm in 8th grade.
but explain, how could it?[/quote]

Explains a lot. You'll learn why religion was such an important factor if you decide to take WHAP or regular world history. Haha.

[quote=xaidan]how could the church be higher than government if its not related?[/quote]

Have you taken a world history class in highschool or college? I think this is a key thing. If you haven't then well non of these things would make sense.

[quote=xaidan]@berarules the dark or middle ages never would have happened if Christianity never existed.[/quote]

You're completely wrong. The dark or middle ages happened because of the Black plague/death and also the split between Eastern/Western Europe. Within that split, western couldn't defend themselves or create an empire due to the increase in bandits. That means no trade was happening and not enough food was coming in.

From AP World, i learned that religion served as religious foundations which served to promote the unification of empires.
If religion did not exist, I'd say chaos such as China's Period of the Warring States would occur and an unwavering battle for conquest and power would consume our world.

If religion cease to exist, we wouldn't have the Renaissance. Why? Because Catholicism helped Western Europe out from it's Middle and dark ages. Without Catholicism being the unifying factor, they would've never gotten out of the Dark or Middle Ages thus no renaissance ever happening. Literature, Religion, and Science would all be completely different. Religion just wasn't a belief system but also ethical and moral support.

[quote=Alwayscokacola]: dude tell me some GOOD things religion has done? ( not something as my daddy got healed in hospital ), something good it done to mankind itself? all i see is war in the name of ''their'' god. i believe in science, Science flies people to the moon, religion flies people into buildings. seriously religion has no proof at all, Religion is more impressed by the simplicity of their lies than the impossibility of their proof. With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.[/quote]

Countries and governments weren't built all on politics and paper work alone. Religion had a role to play in almost everything. Without religion we wouldn't be living the way we do now.

@alwayscokacola America was created. Inspiration to many i.e. even Albert Einstein, the man regarded to many as the smartest person that has ever lived, once said that "someone who's felt the gospel knows that God has to be true". (Not direct quote but something along those lines)

I mean, don't get me wrong there has been tons of blood spilled over religion, but that I feel I could relate it back to human nature. God provided the Bible, Quran, etc, to humans but humans were the ones to interpret them. It's not really the religion's fault for the individuals who's made poor, "evil" decisions.

And the whole thing about ethics... Religion didn't create ethics but it sure did help in defining them. Concreting them. Making ethics "official". You can't prove that humans are all born good. But with religion, you sort of can. I don't think you can say that religion is the source of human morality, nor do I believe that you can't. What I definentely CAN say though, is that religion [b]helped in shaping them.[/b]

[quote=infiniteIQx]Religion made ethics a standard in society, so I think the world would be much worse. =/[/quote]

Ethics existed before religion. It's not like people went around randomly killing people just because they didn't think a superior being would smite them down.

@iFaeZwuNi: dude tell me some GOOD things religion has done? ( not something as my daddy got healed in hospital ), something good it done to mankind itself? all i see is war in the name of ''their'' god. i believe in science, Science flies people to the moon, religion flies people into buildings. seriously religion has no proof at all, Religion is more impressed by the simplicity of their lies than the impossibility of their proof. With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

LoL Religion =/= Moral.

Religion teaches moral. So? That means the writers of the book knew moral already. Also, religion didn't help us develop it slowed us down. If you have studied history you should know that there was an age when religion controlled the europe. It's now known as the dark age. That's cause we forgot some old inventions and didn't develop in sciences.

More correctly, Religion is an important part of culture. But is it needed in modern world? Should it have the position it has nowadays? As an atheist, I say nope.

[quote=Alwayscokacola]it would be a perfect world. all religion causes is nothing but trouble, wars, deads. all ''in the name of god''.[/quote]

No it wont
Religion also keeps people in check.

it would be a perfect world. all religion causes is nothing but trouble, wars, deads. all ''in the name of god''.

World would suck. Nuff' said.
I like religion.

[quote=RealSheep]@SoggyToast: Yes exactly..I think there are problems with the morals of people and I think these would exist with or without religion..People's arguments for problems with removing religion are that religion has helped morals, and I don't think this is true.[/quote]

Yeah
I think it's the other way around: morals shaped religion

the enlightenment philosophers weren't big on religion yet they still believed in the good and the equality of man so I don't see why people think the world would be worse off, I think the world would actually be the same but without religious conflicts. However, ideological conflicts would always exist no matter what; there doesn't need to be religion for that to exist

[quote=CloudDur]I disagree about everyone thinking religion will ruin the world.
Take unicorns for example. Some people put trust in them, but yet we don't think of them as holy beings. I think the same would happen if we had no god.
We could still have laws. They were made to stop crime, and they will be made if we trusted in something or not.
Look at all the other animals in the world. They aren't in war zone for life. They are living life. We may see the world differently, for better or worse, and racism will still exist, or it can even be better, same with everything else
I think it may even be better since we would learn to thank people for what they've done instead of thanking god.

Just me two cents.[/quote]

But religion has caused and is causing, big problems in the public understanding of science, and education in the US.

[quote=RealSheep]I'm pretty sure the world would be a much better place without religion..It wouldn't have suppressed technological advances, and we would be far more scientifically advanced. I don't think religion promotes ethics, because 9 times out of 10, the people following the religion can't be bothered to actually follow the ethics promoted by the same religion.[/quote]

Then wouldn't that make it a problem with the actual people themselves rather than the doctrine?

My view: One thing is for sure, our history would be very very different. Religions had a huge huge impact on human past, in art, in history, even in science, etc. Whether the world would be better or worse without it if we never had it is not something that can really be guessed.

A lot of good things also came out of religion, and there will always be ignorants running amok, regardless of what belief(s) they hold.

[quote=elmattho]i think it would be alot better bcuz alot of people are being killed bcuz of religion.
and besides do people eaven still believe in god? no offense but how dumb can they be?[/quote]

I agree ^

OT: People need something to belive in because of the fear of death and the fear of feeling little, thay made up many religions, they would just have been different if the ones that exist didn't exist. -.-

i unno
i ma look at family guy and find some answers in the Road to the Multiverse
beefy pigs, and stuff, hot women, scientific advancements
seems good enough for me though there are probably many down sides but
i ma follow whatever the episode tells me

[quote=persephone99]Without religion, people would lose some of the drive to become better people. [/Quote]

Nope, because we already have largely secular societies which functions fine without religion.

[quote=persephone99]It was because of religion that people went out and conquered the world, and even though negative things had come out of that (like the deaths of the heretics), overall, without religion as the driving force of humanity, cultures would not have spread, technological advances might not have gone forward (after all, the pyramids were built because of religion), literature would be stilted (as most ancient literature deals with religion in some way, shape, or form, and most modern books have influences from ancient literature), and language would not have developed as far as it has now. Religion helps give people the drive needed to accomplish great (and terrible) things, and it gives people the hope that everything will be well. In a way, we need religion, because without it, society might not have been able to get to this point.[/quote]

Justify this please.

[quote=persephone99]Even the atheists can't deny this, because if there was no religion, then atheism will have no reason to exist.[/quote]

Why? Atheism and theism is a question about belief in God, it's not dependent upon religion.

Nothing would change cause we would find something else to believe in. That's our way of dealing with harsh reality.