General

[quote=und3rknight]apparently you did not understand what I meant by multiplicative after unlimited did you, it means the absolute maximum you can have is 99.99% pdr 100% is no longer achievable after this patch[/quote]

If you were to look a bit up, you'd understand I understand. What I meant there is, a single weapon is calculated as one source of pdr, therefor all the pdr from that source is additive, then multiplicative with other sources (ex: second weapon, codex, etc.). If a single weapon has 100% pdr or more, the bearer gets 100% pdr

[quote=und3rknight]apparently you did not understand what I meant by multiplicative after unlimited did you, it means the absolute maximum you can have is 99.99% pdr 100% is no longer achievable after this patch[/quote]
We might not be getting that part of the patch.

[quote=Mirabosh]@und3rknight: A single weapon is counted as one source of pdr, so if your weapon has 40%, 30% and 30% pdr as a potential, you get 100% ignore pdr[/quote]

apparently you did not understand what I meant by multiplicative after unlimited did you, it means the absolute maximum you can have is 99.99% pdr 100% is no longer achievable after this patch

[quote=Mirabosh]@und3rknight: A single weapon is counted as one source of pdr, so if your weapon has 40%, 30% and 30% pdr as a potential, you get 100% ignore pdr[/quote]

eh? first time I've come across this. has this been tested/where did you read this? o_o

@und3rknight: A single weapon is counted as one source of pdr, so if your weapon has 40%, 30% and 30% pdr as a potential, you get 100% ignore pdr

[quote=Mirabosh]Especially for kaisers, % pdr will still be pretty useless post unlimited ([b]unless you get a 100% pdr weapon[/b]). Here's why:

Empress has 70% pdr.
-40% kaiser skill = 42% pdr
-30% leafre set = 29.4% pdr
-15% luminous link = 24.99% pdr
-10% ambition = 22.49% pdr
-10% Fafnir = 20.24% pdr
-10% Highness = 18.21% pdr
-5% Trixter = 17.31% pdr
-5% EagleEye = 16.44% pdr

At this point, even a 21% pdr neb would only pull it down to 12.98% pdr, 3.45% damage only of difference. This is assuming none of your weapon already gives pdr...[/quote]

you do know after the unlimited patch it's impossible to get 100% pdr since it becomes multiplicative instead of additive right?

[quote=Pareto]This drops the case down to 1.53 then. Assuming your conditions as a 35% critical rate, the 6% critical nebulite only provides a 2.68% damage boost and only gets worse as you increase your critical rate.[/quote]

Sorry for shortening the quote... if you really wanna see it whole look at Pareto's post instead of mine, copying it all is a waste of space

I was considering an ideal funding situation. Of course I was using the maximum % boss reasonably obtainable (as in, not 120% boss per weapon, which is possible but eh, have you ever seen 36% stat on an armor?)
What I mean is, if you're too poor for % boss, go for % crit, seeing it'll only get better as your % boss from other sources increase. If you're always aiming to be the very best, and spend thousands on this game, % crit is as much of a good option as % boss too, seeing how things goes post unlimited.
15% boss from card set was assuming 3 sets of lvl100+ char, including kanna and DA. Each set gives 3% boss, lvl100 kanna and DA gives 3% each (wait was it 4%?)
And if you've played a kaiser for long enough and know a bit about your class, you know untransformed DPS is much higher than transformed DPS. The only time I'd use transformation is during a boss that DR too often for majesty to be enough (PB, empress occasionally, madman ranmaru because I got too lazy to look for the DR CD of this one...)
I'm not saying % crit neb will be the best for everyone, I'm not saying % boss is nothing compared to it, I just mean they're quite comparable and % crit could potentially beat % boss in extreme cases.

@Mirabosh: don't use "comfortably" when most of the population can't even get 1 Root Abyss equip (not the mention cubing all of that..)
even if we were to have 150% Boss (which most people won't have), let's compare 25% Boss to 8% Crit
25% Boss brings us from 150% to 175%, so 2.75/2.5 = 1.1, or a 10% increase in damage.
let's say this was someone with 1.65~1.65 crit so 1.65 crit multiplier.
if he has 50% crit. 8% brings that up to 58%
50% means crit will overall give 1.325x, and 58% means 1.377x
1.377/1.325 = 1.'2 or 3.92% increase.

250% Boss, 25% is 7.14% boost
340% Boss as you mentioned, 25% is 5.68%
90% Crit, 8% crit is 3.28% boost
10% Crit only (somehow), 8% crit is 4.88%

now these are already under the assumption you somehow got 15% Max crit and brought your min crit to 165%, which isn't happening for most people
so, Boss% outright always triumphs

EDIT: continuing, 15% Crit from Phantom and 10% from Hyper, everyone's guaranteed 30% Crit at some point if they put in the time. since we're factoring DSE, +10% again for 40%
using 165%~165% again, 8% Neb means a 4.13% increase
the critical point for 25% Boss Neb then would be 505% Boss. and that is totally reachable.
so the only reason you can give for %Crit being better is, it's (possibly) much cheaper.

@Mirabosh:

Most kaiser's won't be able to afford the 150 root set, so that's -20%. Not sure what Highness is, but I see what you mean.

[quote=MyKarma]%pdr will become a lot more significant after unlimited, so it'll go down to pdr vs boss vs crit afterwards, but for now it's crit vs boss.[/quote]

Especially for kaisers, % pdr will still be pretty useless post unlimited (unless you get a 100% pdr weapon). Here's why:

Empress has 70% pdr.
-40% kaiser skill = 42% pdr
-30% leafre set = 29.4% pdr
-15% luminous link = 24.99% pdr
-10% ambition = 22.49% pdr
-10% Fafnir = 20.24% pdr
-10% Highness = 18.21% pdr
-5% Trixter = 17.31% pdr
-5% EagleEye = 16.44% pdr

At this point, even a 21% pdr neb would only pull it down to 12.98% pdr, 3.45% damage only of difference. This is assuming none of your weapon already gives pdr...

[quote=Mirabosh]@Pareto: 1.) My bad, I don't know why I was under the impression we had +15min/max crit, while it's only minimum crit.
2.) I was comparing it to a boss nebulite, which is rank A anyways. It wouldn't be really all that great to compare the best boss neb to a mediocre crit neb.
3.) Post unlimited world. I think I explaining how I got to that "comfortable" % boss/damage (no, I do not have that much % boss). I took 70% per weapon, 30% for the fafnir, 30% for the RA set effect, 10% for DA (which might as well be like kanna... so can't really count it anymore), 15% from card sets, 30% for emblem (if you're at cap range), 15% for DS link, 20% for attack mode, and I included 50% for bonus pot total, since at that point I didn't really know how the revamp would affect it. While I'm still unsure of the exact values, I do think 50% is achieveable on 2 weapons (25% each). I'd need to know if our emblem can get % boss from bonus pot tho.. You can add 40% from dojo gloves, but as I said, if you have cap range no matter the gloves, you should use +min/max crit gloves (preferably both min AND max). I'm not saying the TS have that kind of funding, but if he can't go with boss neb because he can't afford, might as well pick the % crit, which is best for him in the future anyways. Also note I didn't factor in Bits, soul weapons and additional options, my korean skills are non-existant and I couldn't find translated value of what these systems could give in % boss.
4.) I get what you mean there. I'd still favor % crit though, unless someone is extremely lucky I doubt he can achieve 100% crit without nebs, and without nerfing his other stats as well. Azwan is the ideal source of % crit, seeing that the max % crit per line is 30%, while boss is 20%. The point remains valid though, up to 100% critical rate would be better than % boss as the % boss gets higher and higher, in which newer updates tend to help, while % crit is left alone. I still think I can say % crit is the best option for the unfunded, and to an extent for the super funded, as it is a viable option no matter if you're funded or not, while % boss is reserved to the most funded.[/quote]

%pdr will become a lot more significant after unlimited, so it'll go down to pdr vs boss vs crit afterwards, but for now it's crit vs boss.

@Pareto: 1.) My bad, I don't know why I was under the impression we had +15min/max crit, while it's only minimum crit.
2.) I was comparing it to a boss nebulite, which is rank A anyways. It wouldn't be really all that great to compare the best boss neb to a mediocre crit neb.
3.) Post unlimited world. I think I explaining how I got to that "comfortable" % boss/damage (no, I do not have that much % boss). I took 70% per weapon, 30% for the fafnir, 30% for the RA set effect, 10% for DA (which might as well be like kanna... so can't really count it anymore), 15% from card sets, 30% for emblem (if you're at cap range), 15% for DS link, 20% for attack mode, and I included 50% for bonus pot total, since at that point I didn't really know how the revamp would affect it. While I'm still unsure of the exact values, I do think 50% is achieveable on 2 weapons (25% each). I'd need to know if our emblem can get % boss from bonus pot tho.. You can add 40% from dojo gloves, but as I said, if you have cap range no matter the gloves, you should use +min/max crit gloves (preferably both min AND max). I'm not saying the TS have that kind of funding, but if he can't go with boss neb because he can't afford, might as well pick the % crit, which is best for him in the future anyways. Also note I didn't factor in Bits, soul weapons and additional options, my korean skills are non-existant and I couldn't find translated value of what these systems could give in % boss.
4.) I get what you mean there. I'd still favor % crit though, unless someone is extremely lucky I doubt he can achieve 100% crit without nebs, and without nerfing his other stats as well. Azwan is the ideal source of % crit, seeing that the max % crit per line is 30%, while boss is 20%. The point remains valid though, up to 100% critical rate would be better than % boss as the % boss gets higher and higher, in which newer updates tend to help, while % crit is left alone. I still think I can say % crit is the best option for the unfunded, and to an extent for the super funded, as it is a viable option no matter if you're funded or not, while % boss is reserved to the most funded.

@1elemental3: You actually only get one piece AND it's clean.
If you have a 55k range, you shouldn't have a need for clean empress.

@iEatNoobz: I know that. I heard from somebody that were supposed to be getting full empress sets from some event soon. So i was holding off on trying to get one of those.

@1elemental3: The point is, you shouldn't be blowing off 3b on a boss neb when that could easily improve upon a 55k range.

@MyKarma: If he doesn't have a lot of % boss he can't afford boss nebs, as a kaiser he doesn't need % pdr, we already have more than enough, % damage is less effective, so is % atk. Pretty much stuck with % crit

[quote=Mirabosh]@Pareto: [url=http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/2631381]here[/url][/quote]

You're factoring in dse, which everyone doesn't have. From what I can make out of it, %crit is better when you already have a lot of boss, it doesn't look like TS has a huge amount of %boss.

@Pareto: [url=http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/2631381]here[/url]

[quote=iEatNoobz]@1elemental3: I'm pretty sure that a boss% neb is well outside your price range with a 55k range
I'd go for a minimum of 100k buffed before even considering it.
Though yeah, there're pelnty of 3%/4% total damage nebs sitting around the fm, so that may be worth owling or just looking out for.[/quote]

Well like i said, I got an Amaterasus 1 hand axe, 153 att, 55str, 31dex, that i got an offer on for 3b

@1elemental3: I'm pretty sure that a boss% neb is well outside your price range with a 55k range
I'd go for a minimum of 100k buffed before even considering it.
Though yeah, there're pelnty of 3%/4% total damage nebs sitting around the fm, so that may be worth owling or just looking out for.

K nevermind just ignore me everyone. I proved how good crtical nebs are even against % boss ones, yet no one listens. Just use % damage, it's the worst of them all but eh you don't care right?

[quote=ezirb6]Definitely %str on your equips. There are a lot of options for your weapon.
Crit, PDR, total dmg, att

Basically anything %. Go for 4%damage/att, 18%pdr, or 8%crit(Crit is not as useful if you have a main att that has 100% crit, like DS. Idk if Kaiser has anything like that)
Based on your range, you can't afford it, but if you get your hands on a 25% boss damage, then go for that.[/quote]

I have an amatarasus 1 hand axe that got an offer for 3 bil. so i might be able to afford some decent stuff later in a few weeks.

[quote=iEatNoobz]Damage is subjective to range, 50-55k is already a decent range, so if your damage is low for your range it isn't the nebulite's fault.
However, if you're asking about a generic range increase, then yes nebbing all your gear with 1% nebs and your weapon with a 15% pdr neb will up your range and damage a decent bit.
Btw, 50-55k is very much above average if that's what you're worried about [/quote]

Well I'm more worried about raising my range. I hit around 100k per gigas line. But i would think that because Kiasers already have pretty high def ignore (if you count lumino link skill) then i should worry more about a total damage, or an att, or maybe even boss.

If you're worried about your range, try setting a goal when cubing pieces. For example, goal #1 can be getting every piece to 6% str or 7% after you fill your equips with 1% nebs. Later when you get more funds, you can try for 9 - 15% piece by piece. Work on ONLY one piece at a time of course...

Damage is subjective to range, 50-55k is already a decent range, so if your damage is low for your range it isn't the nebulite's fault.
However, if you're asking about a generic range increase, then yes nebbing all your gear with 1% nebs and your weapon with a 15% pdr neb will up your range and damage a decent bit.
Btw, 50-55k is very much above average if that's what you're worried about

Just get a % crit nebulite... they're far better than any other option

You would want % PDR/% Boss on your weapon, and get % str nebs for your equips.