LHC Tactics: Why Bearwolves?
I was traveling around LHC and apparently there is one monster that is stronger than the bearwolves and they are Castle Golems.
I tried soloing them on my mage to find out that they were not only much easier to deal with, but the map I experimented on (Tall Castle Walls 2) was a lot more concise to the point where it's much easier to navigate than the most popular bearwolf map that parties use. Add that to the fact that their KB is very low and they give [b]more[/b] EXP, I'd have to ask: "Did I miss something?"
The only thing wrong with them is that they're strong to all forms of magic (Element Reset works wonders...) and warrior classes are likely to get sent flying constantly, but for classes like any archer, night lords, any magician except BaM, Dark Knights (if their range is really that good..) Mechanics, Gunslingers and Buccaneers who use Super Transformation skills... why Bearwolves...?
27 Comments • Newest first
[quote=ddsushi]you dont factor in the fact that you barely have to move at golems, which lets you kill mobs faster
also, if you have decent atters in your party, 3 mil damage barely takes a few extra seconds to do
and with all the exp bonuses, that 7k can add up to over 30k+ exp, which increases your %per hr a decent amount
It is hands down, the best map for mechs, because if you laser at the right spots, you can hit both plats at once
and with some good portal placement, there is no need for movement whatsoever. Not to mention no KB due to 100% stance
However, i did have some MAJOR problems here on my db due to the fact that after ~2-3 upperstabs, i get knocked half way across the map.
To me, DBs and arch mages seem to me to be the only class with a problem here, since all other classes can either:
1. Attack from far enough away where they dont get KBed
2. Have stance
3. Have iframes/high avoid/shadowshifter(Nightlords and Shadowers)
4. Do enough damage to pin the golems so they cant attack
Evans with ele reset can spam EQ in the middle if im not mistaken ( i might be, i dont have an evan)
and the map im talking about is ( very tall castle walls i think) the one at the top right portal in the 4th tower[/quote]
Archmages are capable of methods 1 & 4. I can solo them without taking a single hit.
[quote=Hanzor]Golems have like 3 Million more HP and only around 7k exp more.
HP-wise, in the time you kill 4 golems you already killed 5 bearwolves
so you get more exp in time, plus weakness to fire and no annoying KB.[/quote]
you dont factor in the fact that you barely have to move at golems, which lets you kill mobs faster
also, if you have decent atters in your party, 3 mil damage barely takes a few extra seconds to do
and with all the exp bonuses, that 7k can add up to over 30k+ exp, which increases your %per hr a decent amount
It is hands down, the best map for mechs, because if you laser at the right spots, you can hit both plats at once
and with some good portal placement, there is no need for movement whatsoever. Not to mention no KB due to 100% stance
However, i did have some MAJOR problems here on my db due to the fact that after ~2-3 upperstabs, i get knocked half way across the map.
To me, DBs and arch mages seem to me to be the only class with a problem here, since all other classes can either:
1. Attack from far enough away where they dont get KBed
2. Have stance
3. Have iframes/high avoid/shadowshifter(Nightlords and Shadowers)
4. Do enough damage to pin the golems so they cant attack
Evans with ele reset can spam EQ in the middle if im not mistaken ( i might be, i dont have an evan)
and the map im talking about is ( very tall castle walls i think) the one at the top right portal in the 4th tower
Golems have like 3 Million more HP and only around 7k exp more.
HP-wise, in the time you kill 4 golems you already killed 5 bearwolves
so you get more exp in time, plus weakness to fire and no annoying KB.
What level are bearwolves?
[quote=Jarretboyle]Its Bearwolfs, then Vultures then Castle Golems
Weakest to strongest. Vultures are actually way better then Bearwolves if you can handle their Iframes(Evans, MM, Shadowers&etc). Also no complaining LOL
Fast attack classes shouldn't be there though, or least use a different move that's slower.
As for Castle Golems, Evans can train there(depending on map). However they do get annoying with their knock back D: Only went there twice so far, so don't really have any strategies for it.[/quote]
Dealing with vultures is one thing but considering the fact that it's impossible for any class to deal consistent damage to it makes it only worth doing in terms of completing the quest that requires you to kill 33 of them.
[quote=AsaLostar]A bearwolf gives 52,654 EXP raw while a CG gives 58,285. and I think it seems like the mobbing classes would have the most trouble since they would become the most prone to the knockback.[/quote]
Bearwolves give approx 1 EXP for every 45.7 HP (6 person party, with HS, if you solo one)
Golems give approx 1 EXP for every 53.7 HP (as above)
Meaning Bearwolves being killed 1 at a time is ~1.17x faster.
But, due to the potential mobbing in both areas, you looking at 2-3 a mob in Bearwolves while you can expect 3-4 in Golems (average due to spawn)
Going by the average mob amount, 2.5 for Bearwolves and 3.5 for Golems, we get. (6 person party with hs, solo mob)
Bearwolves mob giving approx 1 EXP for every 18.28 HP. (45.7/2.5=18.28)
Golems mob giving approx 1 EXP for every 15.34 HP. (53.7/3.5=15.34)
Also although they get knocked back, it does not stop them for any noticeable amount of time, as they can just jump forward with their next attack, continuing the cycle until the enemy dies.
Last thing, lets not forget single-target attacks vs multi-target attacks.
Lets assume WHs Ricochet vs WAB
Ricochet delay (faster [3] {fast [5], but with booster}) : 690ms
310% per enemy
Average % on single target : 449% (per second)
Bearwolves mob (2.5) : 1122.5% (+34.7%, FA average)
Golem mob (3.5) : 1571.5% (+24.8%, FA average)
WAB delay : 8.333 shots per second
200% per hit
Average % on single target : 1666.6% (per second)
Bearwolf : 1666.6% (+500%, FA average)
Golem : 1666.6% (+500%, FA average)
As you can see, WAB clearly is a WH's best option, meaning they should be looking for the best single HP:EXP ratio, which is crockys. =3
@the obnoxious DK:
Ask someone what I mean, cause you clearly lack the intelligence to understand.
[quote=bradpower12]@Takeback3r: Pally uses dual charges, and would much rather be on something that is lightning nuetral and fire weak than on something lightning strong and holy nuetral, especially since not everyone gets holy right away.[/quote]
I'm sure they would much rather hit their max target # with ACB most spawn rotations than see a mob of 6+ at bearwolves 3 times in an hour too, as well as having the ability to heaven's hammer every mob in the map which you won't be able to do at bearwolves.
[quote=GazimoEnthra]@Takeback3r: Stance is months away,[/quote]
Thus the "for now". Durr.
[quote=GazimoEnthra]The extra damage makes a lot of difference.[/quote]
So does hitting more targets on average.
[quote=GazimoEnthra]Also, I use less pots at Bearwolves, which is very important since I'm super broke.[/quote]
I have 8m total meso right now. It takes 1m+ for every 150 stack of honsters for me. I get 1-1.5k honsters when i repot.
Don't complain about money. It's easier than you realize to obtain.
[quote=zander145]Crockys have almost half the hp of bearwolfs... Much easier to kill. With a full party+hs+fam rep 1.2x+1.5 cards, exp is amazing fast...[/quote]
Crockys have 7.4m HP and bearwolves have 9.6m with a WAY better spawn and map layout. Don't try and refute me if you don't know the real numbers. >_>
@Aznangel I was initially doing the quest for the Knight's Magic Scroll. I expected the Castle Golem to be a lousy monster (Like Grey Vultures <.< but wound up surprised. Compared to something lame like Grey Vultures, it's just strange that the Castle Golems are as deserted as they are.
Sometimes the terrain of bearwolves can backfire when you have silly members on a higher platform trying to solo stuff when they don't have the proper power to hold their own, thus slowing things down.
The bearwolves are a great training monster in general (that goes doubly for fire-types) but sometimes I think people tend to be too close-minded about their training methods. For example, even though jesters give lots of experience, it becomes very much not worth it if there's more than 4 people on the same map doing pointless KS-wars. That's basically what I was getting at.
Well, on my 16x IL, I usually train on Golems. The reason being: I'm usually with a higher lvl party (16x+) that contains mobbers and rushers.
I also go to Bearwolves if I can't find a party at Golems. CL works well on the map due to it being able to hit 2 platforms at once. (eg: 2 Bearwolves on middle platform, 1 at the bottom; you can hit the 2 and it also hits the one at the bottom)
[quote=reaper9]Dbs can Spam upper cut to the bearwolves when they are cornered and if u do it correctly it will make it so tht the bearwolves cant even atk u... Dbs who can do tht would be best at wolves because most of the other monsters have an atk tht can hit u either way[/quote]
Yeah, I got a mob of 4 on the top plat and just spammed US and they never even hit me once.
[quote=Takeback3r]@above: Bearwolves are level 122. Staying at crockys when a clearly better mob is available is...O_o[/quote]
Crockys have almost half the hp of bearwolfs... Much easier to kill. With a full party+hs+fam rep 1.2x+1.5 cards, exp is amazing fast...
@Takeback3r: Stance is months away, and even after Chaos, I can probably train at Bearwolves better because they're fire weak. The extra damage makes a lot of difference. Also, I use less pots at Bearwolves, which is very important since I'm super broke.
[quote=Takeback3r]If? I have stance. I know what i'm talking about. O_o And i haven't been hit by any super KB skills that still KB me with energy charge on.[/quote]
I wasn't doubting you. I was just thinking about fact that I seen some mechs get knocked back by skills such as that forced KB skill from the God of Rock... or maybe the mech's natural stance isn't exactly the same thing?
@above: Bearwolves are level 122. Staying at crockys when a clearly better mob is available is...O_o
[quote=GazimoEnthra]Bearwolves are fire weak.
I can hit all three platforms at once.
Golems resist fire.
Golems are spunky and like knocking you across the map. When you have to walk back at 100% speed, this isn't fun.[/quote]
Flame wheel hits top and bottom platforms in Very tall castle walls as long as the party rushes right, and evans have stance in chaos so the super KB isn't an issue.
Elemental advantage on all your skills and the fact that earthquake hits 3 platforms with it's ridiculous range makes bearwolves better for evans, but only for now.
[quote=Lilt]Personally I wouldn't choose anywhere else to train besides bearwolves and castle golems, but that's just me.
I think those two monsters are the best of LHC.[/quote]
Crocky's are GREAT! 115~124 in a day. EASY. I would stay at crocky's till about 130 then go to bearwolfs. But im a db so =S -sits and waits for chaos-
Bearwolves are fire weak.
I can hit all three platforms at once.
Golems resist fire.
Golems are spunky and like knocking you across the map. When you have to walk back at 100% speed, this isn't fun.
If? I have stance. I know what i'm talking about. O_o And i haven't been hit by any super KB skills that still KB me with energy charge on.
[quote=bradpower12]golems have 25% def instead of 20% and also are strong to all types of elements.[/quote]
5% damage isn't very significant when you're hitting more targets overall compared to bearwolves, thus doing more damage.
Mages have elemental reset. Evans have elemental reset. Paladins have holy charge (which they are neutral to).
[quote=Takeback3r]What the hell are you talking about? Any class with stance or high avoid/shifter has less trouble in this map than any other class else they get sent flying. (warriors, mechs, BaMs, buccs, thieves)
Also, the map you went to SUCKS. Very tall castle walls IS THE BEST CASTLE GOLEMS MAP PERIOD.[/quote]
If stance works against that style of knockback, then it does go in the warrior's favor. I don't have much experience with stance but I do know that there are some forced KB skills that will work no matter what your stance level is. (I just thought the CG-quake was one of them).
[quote=AsaLostar]A bearwolf gives 52,654 EXP raw while a CG gives 58,285. and I think it seems like the mobbing classes would have the most trouble since they would become the most prone to the knockback.[/quote]
Most good mobbing classes have stance. Which nullifies the super KB.
Bearwolves ARE NOT the best mobs in LHC, so i am supporting your point, but you are right for the wrong reasons.
@taleback3r this man speaks nothing but the truth buccs (best class ever) and mechs (they're cool too) mob like crazy here, just sprinkle in some other members in the party, get ur buffs going, and as long as u have 6 ppl wit some HS I don't see how bear wolves would be better . . . U know unless u suck 0_o
[quote=IamnotTod]Evans. Fire>Ice We own those Bearwolves.[/quote]
im with you sexy =)
[quote=gmharri]OT:
Crockys, Bearwolves and Golems are the 3 main places people train in LHC.
Crockys give the best EXP:HP, have the lowest HP, but have the most annoying range (since you have to be on the other side of the platform to dodge it, and you can't jump it, because its too high.
Bearwolves are 2nd best in EXP:HP, are in the middle for HP, but their range is exceedingly short, and can be jumped over with ease.
Golems are the worst for EXP:HP, and have the highest HP, although the map is much smaller and the spawn is much tighter, so good mobbing classes (ie. Hero/Pally/DBs/BaMs/etc) can hit multiple enemies, counteracting the low EXP:HP by killing multiple enemies much faster.[/quote]
A bearwolf gives 52,654 EXP raw while a CG gives 58,285. and I think it seems like the mobbing classes would have the most trouble since they would become the most prone to the knockback.
[quote=danageis]Let's compare, without worrying too much about HP:EXP ratios:
Bearwolves are slow, have really only one magic attack that does minimal damage, and give decent EXP
Castle Golems, [b]are one of the most annoying mobs in the game.[/b] Their attacks shake the screen and knock back (which also makes you unable to attack for a second) with each magic attack, so it is pretty much necessary you to tank them. They have better spawn than bearwolves, which is good except it means (from my experience) that you will often be hit by the annoying magic attack even when tanking.
So to sum up, I'd stick with bearwolves. They are MUCH easier to control, and you will get around the same exp/HR in my experience if you are in a full pt in either map.[/quote]
You can disable screen shaking and it really isn't that much of a distraction to begin with. Mobbing classes go to town at castle golems, and are conversely limited by bearwolf spawn due to platforming. Have you ever seen 3 mechs and a bucc at castle golems? Rush right -> Laser/dragon strike a mob of 6-8. Mobs of that size RARELY show themselves in any bearwolf map.
What the hell are you talking about? Any class with stance or high avoid/shifter has less trouble in this map than any other class else they get sent flying. (warriors, mechs, BaMs, buccs, thieves)
Also, the map you went to SUCKS. Very tall castle walls IS THE BEST CASTLE GOLEMS MAP PERIOD.
Well, Paladin's would go to Bearwolves because they're fire-weak. Same with Mage's.
Also, Golems are strong to fire, ice, lightning, and immune to poison, so Mage's & Paladin's wouldn't bother with them. Golem's also have super-kb, which is annoying for some, if not most classes.
[quote=1EvenStar]OMG it's an Archmage! Everyone get into my party, i'll just say we are full so he leaves![/quote]
OMG why is a 3+ job at LHC, I'm pretty sure Blade Lords don't go there, so why are you?
OT:
Crockys, Bearwolves and Golems are the 3 main places people train in LHC.
Crockys give the best EXP:HP, have the lowest HP, but have the most annoying range (since you have to be on the other side of the platform to dodge it, and you can't jump it, because its too high.
Bearwolves are 2nd best in EXP:HP, are in the middle for HP, but their range is exceedingly short, and can be jumped over with ease.
Golems are the worst for EXP:HP, and have the highest HP, although the map is much smaller and the spawn is much tighter, so good mobbing classes (ie. Hero/Pally/DBs/BaMs/etc) can hit multiple enemies, counteracting the low EXP:HP by killing multiple enemies much faster.
Golems get knocked back way too easily. If I seige, its really easy for them to get knocked out of my range.
castle golems are more fun to train on :] and keeps you on your toes. (you can jump to avoid the KB)