General

gl getting 9 sextillion kills. Idk. To me it feels more natural to kill enemies without knocking them back continously. Maybe it's more about preference rather than effectiveness. I have no idea though.

[quote=OldManMaple]I think this discussion reminds me of the old doubleshot vs arrow blow debate.
I think the reason people use Smash to rush and Double Barrel to finish them off is because you got 2 hits. And, with two hits, you have double the chance to get a critical hit.[/quote]
Excuse me as I explain the double shot vs arrow blow debate.
First off to understand this debate you'll have to learn how critical worked before the big bang patch.
Instead of multiplying your damage by a set amount pre bb critical just added 100% damage to any hit it activated on.
example of both
Current critical: using average (1.2 + 1.5)/2 = 1.35
Dmg * critical damage
100% * 1.35 = 135%

Pre big bang:
Dmg + critical damage
100% + 100% = 200%

Now if I remember correctly which I probably don't
Crit for archers had a 40% chance to add 100% damage,
Double shot was 130% x 2,
Arrow blow was 260%.

Now for the even more boring math
Pre big bang
Arrow blow's average damage = (damage + critical damage x critical success) x number of hits
(260% + 100% x 40%) x 1 = 300%

Double shot's average damage = (damage + critical damage x critical success) x number of hits
(130% + 100% x 40%) x 2 = 340%

340% > 300% so
Double shot > arrow blow

Where as the current ([i]this is if arrow blow and double shot's damage never changed[/i])
Arrow blow's average damage = damage x ((min critical damage + max critical damage)/2 x critical success + 1 x chance of no crit) x number of hits
260% x ((1.2 + 1.5) /2 x 45% + 1 x 55%) x 1 = 260% * 1.1575
Double shot's average damage = damage x ((min critical damage + max critical damage)/2 x critical success + 1 x chance of no crit) x number of hits
130% x ((1.2 + 1.5) /2 x 45% + 1 x 55%) x 2 = 260% * 1.1575

As you can see Double shot and arrow blow are perfectly equal with the current critical system meaning that over 9,137,812,930,128,092,138,912 kills that you will do in your maple life using either double shot or arrow blow would be equally as effective post bb

[quote=averire]a few errors thinking back on this all
-First off On a case to case basis 2 hits vs 1 hit you'll find that 2 hit attacks will be closer to the average where as the 1 hit attacks will be closer to the extremes this difference is of course very small and over the course of the average training session it will even out to a nonexistent issue.
-Secondly I lied about how critical works, it's not always +100% damage, lower lvls of Critical Shot have less damage and if you had sharp eye you'd have higher critical damage for pre bb cases that is.[/quote]

[b]If you thought to yourself, "Too long; didn't math."[/b]
Then I'll just say it without examples. Critical rate and/or damage isn't a factor.

[quote=sleepyheadXIII]@Averire: Hmm..feel as though we are missing something, because seems as though the kms sairs like using double barrel shot more. I wonder why.[/quote]

I think this discussion reminds me of the old doubleshot vs arrow blow debate.
I think the reason people use Smash to rush and Double Barrel to finish them off is because you got 2 hits. And, with two hits, you have double the chance to get a critical hit.

@FressX2: In all honestly, our avoid wasn't great to begin with. Unless you're a thief, your avoid is going to mostly like suck and I don't think that 330 or so avoid if we kept it or not would of really made a difference. Unless we have a guard type skill or shadow shifter type skill we will be hit the most compare to everyone else, and die the most. We still have the worst survivability in game after this revamp.

[quote=sleepyheadXIII]status resistance is nice for survivability. Seduce is evil[/quote]

That and some willpower to boot, and hope you will get some safe seduces, but more pot burn well is not that we avoid a lot to begin with but ok also i want a resist thing when it happens a "safe"

[quote=FressX2]Well not a lot of survivability because you know less avoid but yup it does gives more dmg some elemental res and stance are quite good and i agree continual just at 1 to recieve almost full effect of the skill, more points only adds 1% dmg increase whereas style adds 3 or moew stuff in one.[/quote]

status resistance is nice for survivability. Seduce is evil

Well not a lot of survivability because you know less avoid but yup it does gives more dmg some elemental res and stance are quite good and i agree continual just at 1 to recieve almost full effect of the skill, more points only adds 1% dmg increase whereas style adds 3 or moew stuff in one.

[quote=Tyrannax]Well this is gonna be my skillbuild, since I prefer bossing to training.
120-129 Max Rapid Fire
130-139 Max Captain's Dignity
140-149 Max Pirate's Rage, Max Assemble Crew, Max Double Lucky Dice, 5 in Continual Aiming
150-159 Max Pirate Style, 10 in Continual Aiming
160-169 Max Continual Aiming, 25 in Fusillade
170-179 Max Fusillade, 25 in Headshot
179-188 Max Headshot, 20 MW

Thoughts or opinions? I'm aiming to be 150-160 by time revamp comes.[/quote]
should have 1 point into fusillade and continual aiming at least if going to boss. Reason being, zak arms be faster to kill if have a mob move.
Continual aiming at lvl1 at least = having the homing beacon effect.
Captian's dignity should be maxed before rapid fire since dignity adds an extra 500hits per minute, increases the attack on final attack as it is being leveled, and adds 20% more mastery.
Mw>Headshot. Headshot decreases dpm at the moment, because of how slow it is.

I don't get why continual aiming gets points added into it randomly and then you go off to max a different skill. Just max pirate style, then continual aiming.
If have the 1 point into it at the beginning, the only difference between lvl1 and max should just be the dmg increase it gives.
Pirate style will be more useful to max before putting the last 19 points into continual aiming since pirate style being maxed = increased dmg, survivability, and stance.

[quote=sleepyheadXIII]I don't see the reason to max bullet smash. The range, mobbing, and usefulness of it is the same at lvl1 as it is at max lvl. The only difference is damage. Double barrel shoot seem to be your main mobbing skill in 3rd job and would probably be best to max unless you're already 4th job by time revamp hits which in that case it doesn't matter really.
Without a doubt double barrel shoot is going to be replaced, but still has it's uses. An example would be like in the zak video in the other thread where uses it to rid of the mobs since the mobs are weak and double barrel shoot is faster than Fusillade.
If anyone can do the calculations of max barrel shot vs lvl1 fusillade and even barrel shot vs dismounting ship fusillade that would be terrific.[/quote]

This.
OT : I already know what I'm not gonna max in 2nd job and 3rd job : Invisible Shot and Bullet Smash. 4th job, I'm deciding between Headshot and Nautilus Strike.

Maybe they don't like their mobs to being moved every now and then, maybe bullet smash can't be casted on air, maybe bullet smash is linear while the other has an area, lots of questions.

@Averire: Yeah. Mean if look at all the videos and everything, no one uses it other than for gathering up the mobs and then uses double barrel shot. Something just seems off that lvl1 bullet smash> max double barrel shot.

@sleepyheadXIII: Logic would dictate that the rushing skill [i]should[/i] be weaker than other mobbing skills. Perhaps booster does not effect bullet smash?

@Averire: Hmm..feel as though we are missing something, because seems as though the kms sairs like using double barrel shot more. I wonder why.

@sleepyheadXIII: Not at all
As critical, mastery, ignore def and such damage boosts are all the same for both they are not needed so

Bullet Smash
Lvl: 1
Delay: 870
Damage: 658%

Double-barrel Shot
Lvl: 20
Delay: 1230
Damage: 450% * 2 = 900%

hits per second = HPS = 1000/Delay
Damage per second = DPS = HPS * Damage

Bullet Smash
HPS = 1000/870 = 1.149
DPS = 1.149 * 658% = 756.322%

Double-barrel Shot
HPS = 1000/1230 = 0.813
DPS = 0.813 * 900% = 731.707%

756.322% > 731.707%
Therefore
Lvl1 bullet smash > lvl20 Double-barrel Shot

@Rosencroft: Would be pretty sweet if that happens.

@Averire: Really lvl1 bullet smash>max barrel shot? Seems tough to believe. Mind showing the math?

@sleepyheadXIII: The first takes into account speed.
The second one is just pure %
It should also be noted that those are at speed 3

@Averire: Is the damage just pure % or accounting for speed too?
As for bullet smash, I can see it being maxed if you are 4th job already and have the reset, but normally would say max barrel shot since it seems to be the your main mobbing skill in 3rd job while I only see bullet smash just being used as a pushing skill more than anything.

@sleepyheadXIII: In terms of damage lvl 1 Fusillade out does all other corsair mobbing skills.
As far as damage over time goes skills rank:
lvl 30 fusillade > ... > lvl 1 fusillade > max bullet smash > lvl 1 bullet smash > max Double barrel

As far as damage per attack goes they rank:
lvl 30 fusillade > ... > lvl 1 fusilade > max double barrel > max bullet smash

The biggest reason to max bullet smash instead of double barrel though is because bullet smash in a way becomes our weak mob hunting skill due to it's speed.

@Rosencroft: Um what does qft mean?
Would like to believe that it is better, but better to know for certain. It's obvious that the skill is better when start putting points into it, but not sure if at lvl1 it would be and if it's not then I don't see the point into putting 1 sp into at the beginning.

@Yakashiku: well the thing is that not everyone is going to have decent speed infusion. Also the fact that during the justice update they close pvp so we can't glitch skills anymore. So in terms of a skill build, wouldn't really count speed infusion to the equation.

and with decent SI it should be good enough speed wise

[quote=FressX2]Well it depends if you feel like maxing bullet smash or not (leaving double barrel shoot at 11) it's delay is 1230, doing 810%(lvl11) and 900%(lvl20) while fussilade is 1710 and 1896% (474*4), but keep in mind that the delay of fussilade can be reduced if you do the mount glitch thing.[/quote]

I don't see the reason to max bullet smash. The range, mobbing, and usefulness of it is the same at lvl1 as it is at max lvl. The only difference is damage. Double barrel shoot seem to be your main mobbing skill in 3rd job and would probably be best to max unless you're already 4th job by time revamp hits which in that case it doesn't matter really.
Without a doubt double barrel shoot is going to be replaced, but still has it's uses. An example would be like in the zak video in the other thread where uses it to rid of the mobs since the mobs are weak and double barrel shoot is faster than Fusillade.
If anyone can do the calculations of max barrel shot vs lvl1 fusillade and even barrel shot vs dismounting ship fusillade that would be terrific.

Well it depends if you feel like maxing bullet smash or not (leaving double barrel shoot at 11) it's delay is 1230, doing 810%(lvl11) and 900%(lvl20) while fussilade is 1710 and 1896% (474*4), but keep in mind that the delay of fussilade can be reduced if you do the mount glitch thing.

Does anyone know if Fullisade out DPM double barrel shot at lvl1?
It's strong, but it's pretty slow compare to double barrel shot and if lvl1 doesn't beat it, don't see much point into adding 1 sp into it at the beginning other than for looks.

Well, for clearing things up captain dignity is the "2nd mastery" and final attack move and pirate style is our stance and no more avoid thing (iirc) now with that in mind
120 rf, egg (if you feel like) and fussilade (so you can't take aim on boss and mob
121+ max dignity (altough dice it's five points i want something concrete on my points).
After this it becomes as put the points as you feel like altough maybe you will max fussilade or pirate style if you want stance (not in particular order).

[quote=TLNinjah]Yeah I'm not doing that.[/quote]

Yeah, I agree.

Uh.. O.O
Okay!
Not.

Firstly, Fusillade. What else is important? Can you boss at 120? Not really. So RF is staying at level 1 atleast until 130 or 140.
Then, Pirate Style and Captain's Diginity. They're very useful and gives a huge boost for training. ;o
Head Shot isn't that important under 160.
After you've got max fusillade and PS & CD, You can max RF, Pirate's Revenge, Double Dice, Continual Aim. (In this order or whatever you like)
Then you can go rest of the skills. ;o I myself don't really care about what to max first since I'm 19x, But it's still nice to help others. (:
Just remember, If you wanna level quick, You must start with Fusillade.

Haha yea sorry I guys. I posted this without thinking. I made this build pretty much for myself because when the revamp rolls around I'm gonna be in the mid 160s and this is just my build after I use my sp reset...

@Halfhearted: Well, that's because you're the all mighty gunslinger build creator that is usually all knowing and stuff man

Just....no...
So much wrong with this I don't even know where to begin...
Just...let @Halfhearted: figure it out since he's probably the most knowledgeable one for gunslingers.

@lazypando: Hi joy <3

So you don't plan on maxing your main mobbing skill until level 164. Good luck with training.

Can you provide an Outlaw guide as well?

You forgot hero's will. Also an explanation as to why you like this build would be nice, benefits and such.