General

[quote=Saltybandaid]LF> Higher defense cap.
Gimme that and I'll be happy. 8D.[/quote]

This. That 9999 defense cap is totally unnecessary.

@VinnSword: Might just be me. I've been hit more by 1/1's than guardian actually saving my ass (this is from getting a guard and then 1/1 being spammed right after and connecting). Right now I wish we had a hot time event to reset SP because it really screws me over at mu gong/pap during dojo.

LF> Higher defense cap.
Gimme that and I'll be happy. 8D.

[quote=VinnSword]Those calculations are based on a boss monster that is non-moving and non-attacking. In practical terms, lets say, Horntail for example, a Hero and a Paladin at level 200 with equal funding would be on completely different levels. Although the hero may excel at damage, taken time for seduce and stuns, the Paladin and Hero should be close to equal, if not the Paladin on top because of their numerous Guard skills (with this new patch, shield mastery gives 10% guard rate, Divine shield will last for a minute and a half, be able to block 12(? its 10 w/o CO) times activate with a 30% rate, and have a 30 second cooldown; Guardian blocks at a 42% rate (with CO) gives 32% abnormal status tolerance & all attribute attack tolerance; Achilles blocks 16% of any and all damage taken; and shield mastery triples any defense we have.

This goes to show that in almost any given bossing situation, we are practically untouchable and unmovable (99% stance), and we shine in our own light, we don't NEED high damage.

P.S. most damage calculations exclude divine shield 34 att boost, because divine shield it's difficult to calculate[/quote]

I'm pretty sure that achilles is 20% at lvl 30 not 15%. It was upped during ascension and removed from all other warriors. Although guardian works like a shifter skill with a chance to be immune to status involving curses, it's still glitched. When you "guard" or an attack misses you, it causes you to receive another hit right after it guards or misses. If this ever gets fixed then guardian is worth giving praise to. I'm not saying guardian isn't useful, it's just annoying to get hit when you really shouldn't be getting hit at all.

[quote=sumyounguy]@CTBlack: Paladins do get a significant damage increase. I mean holy charge is from 135-150% and lightning is 125-140%. That's huge and then the blast % is also a huge bonus. Don't be thrown off by the calculations because that is assuming the world is perfect and everyone is able to spam freely which is not the case. Nothing really does change but our support is still amazing it's just the damage % of skills were boosted. You should know that a hero has no party skills whatsoever (I don't consider rage a party skill since that is easily replaced by an energizer). Remember we don't really know anything until this patch hits GMS. You should try to be optimistic and don't trust a damage calculation thread as it is all theory.[/quote]

Well I hope you are right, the real game play will be very different from theoretical calculation. Guess we will wait and see.

@CTBlack: Paladins do get a significant damage increase. I mean holy charge is from 135-150% and lightning is 125-140%. That's huge and then the blast % is also a huge bonus. Don't be thrown off by the calculations because that is assuming the world is perfect and everyone is able to spam freely which is not the case. Nothing really does change but our support is still amazing it's just the damage % of skills were boosted. You should know that a hero has no party skills whatsoever (I don't consider rage a party skill since that is easily replaced by an energizer). Remember we don't really know anything until this patch hits GMS. You should try to be optimistic and don't trust a damage calculation thread as it is all theory.

[quote=sumyounguy]@CTBlack: Paladins as of now and in the future, they play their role as a support attacker . They are well rounded now and in the future. The only thing paladins lose out to on heroes is damage but that's been the tale of paladins vs heroes since 4th job came. Just because we didn't get a huge damage increase doesn't decrease the value of paladins. They still get 20% more dmg from charges and then a 50% dmg increase on blast. Drks are even more unfortunate then paladins. They can die from 1/1 easily, they still have less crit then a paladin and their "support" skill is almost useless seeing as how decent HB is undispellable. If you feel this strongly about paladins being a weakling maybe you should have made a hero.[/quote]

By your logic, you are saying there is NO change, which means the ability to deal damage account to nothing. Let me repeat! The thread's topic is comparing the current gap with other warriors, with the future patch, the damage gap have greatly increased and our means to survival does not change. Hero will out damage paladin near 2x on mobs that paladin does maximum (holy weak) damage. Its true survivability is important but it takes second seat compared to damage in most ms players opinion, also its not like other warriors will die at 100% rate. Not that I will quit my paladin, but will for sure play it less. WTH is Nexon thinking when they offset the jobs in one class by so much.

@CTBlack: Paladins as of now and in the future, they play their role as a support attacker . They are well rounded now and in the future. The only thing paladins lose out to on heroes is damage but that's been the tale of paladins vs heroes since 4th job came. Just because we didn't get a huge damage increase doesn't decrease the value of paladins. They still get 20% more dmg from charges and then a 50% dmg increase on blast. Drks are even more unfortunate then paladins. They can die from 1/1 easily, they still have less crit then a paladin and their "support" skill is almost useless seeing as how decent HB is undispellable. If you feel this strongly about paladins being a weakling maybe you should have made a hero.

Long story short: paladins don't lose anything they just gain a damage boost just like heroes.

[quote=sumyounguy]Right... survivability lets you worry about 1 less thing while fighting, spend less NX on wheels and helps you survive at the tough bosses with pot CD. Watch a paladin fight at empress and then tell me that again.

@CTblack I said paladins were well rounded. They aren't the best at anything but great at everything.[/quote]

The context is comparing the current state of paladin with the current state of hero to post advance of the unicorn patch. With the huge damage "inflation" and our meager increase makes us "LESS" rounded as now. If you are saying we are rounded now, then we will be less in the future patch and if you are saying we will be rounded in the future then you mean we are OP now.

[quote=Classicvibe]Survivability has no merit whatsoever in this game.[/quote]

Right... survivability lets you worry about 1 less thing while fighting, spend less NX on wheels and helps you survive at the tough bosses with pot CD. Watch a paladin fight at empress and then tell me that again.

@CTblack I said paladins were well rounded. They aren't the best at anything but great at everything.

[quote=sumyounguy]You should remember paladins are pretty much the most well rounded warrior. They are able to deal decent damage (not the best) be useful to parties and they can survive the best out of all classes. Considering that paladins defensive abilities get even better makes them almost unkillable and they did get a damage boost even if heroes can do more damage it's not good unless they can live. Heroes are only good for dealing damage where a paladin is a well rounded class that is great in all situations.[/quote]

So you are saying we are OP now! The unicorn patch will balance it out?

Survivability has no merit whatsoever in this game.

[quote=CTBlack]The point is for every RPG games I had played, Each job/calss should roughly equal over all, for hero able to best us by near 2x in what used to be our best doesn't make any sense, but its Nexon, nothing makes sense that are done by them.
Blast is around 810ms, HH is around 3 seconds and with a CD of 20 secs. In 3 seconds there are around 3.7 blasts, which need for each blast to hit 270K (per blast not per 1 of the 3 hits) to equal HH (1 mil damage). That is not godly at all.
Yes we do have partyable buffs that speeds up attack, but none of our godly defense buffs can be partyable.[/quote]

You should remember paladins are pretty much the most well rounded warrior. They are able to deal decent damage (not the best) be useful to parties and they can survive the best out of all classes. Considering that paladins defensive abilities get even better makes them almost unkillable and they did get a damage boost even if heroes can do more damage it's not good unless they can live. Heroes are only good for dealing damage where a paladin is a well rounded class that is great in all situations.

[quote=falconxmard]Well for one those dmg calculations assume that both chars are so godly that the paladin doesn't use HH. Also threaten and combat orders are still pretty useful in a party[/quote]

The point is for every RPG games I had played, Each job/calss should roughly equal over all, for hero able to best us by near 2x in what used to be our best doesn't make any sense, but its Nexon, nothing makes sense that are done by them.
Blast is around 810ms, HH is around 3 seconds and with a CD of 20 secs. In 3 seconds there are around 3.7 blasts, which need for each blast to hit 270K (per blast not per 1 of the 3 hits) to equal HH (1 mil damage). That is not godly at all.
Yes we do have partyable buffs that speeds up attack, but none of our godly defense buffs can be partyable.

Unicorn patch? lmfao.
Also we're supposed to be weaker because nothing can kill us. Almost.