General

Just get 2 boss nebs so you can show off your stat screen

How IED is calculated was well explained.
[quote=wall]Pdr multiplies, it isn't additive anymore

I'll use your stats as an example.

100-81=19
19 is the defense that you're missing
adding a 30% line, will add 30% of 19
so, 19*0.3= 5.7, which gives you your new pdr.

You're also forgetting to mention your %boss, which can also increase or reduce damage in bossing.

Normally the comparison is between % boss and %att, as %pdr is more of a standalone. You want roughly 85% pdr for hard magnus, gollux, queen, pierre, von bon. You want about 91% or more for vellum.[/quote]

%pdr neb ew
Combined, two sources of 21% IED nebs is 37.59% IED. I am just going to stick with the "correct terms" even though everyone knows what we are talking about.
IED = ignore PDR = ignored enemy's defense (stat in your window)
PDR = percent damage reduction (stat for a monster)
[b]Go with the %boss neb always.[/b] If you are in a position where %IED nebs provide so much of an increase, something is wrong. At least half of your %ATT should be coming from bonus potentials, which I have not seen you mention. For every specific case, it is best to see the numbers yourself. Once, I even recubed the main potential on my emblem. Before recubing, I had 86% IED.

21% ATT/9%TD -> 12% STR/30% IED/30% IED

[quote=cherrytigers]I've even seen people like Cocosnawk use 21% pdr nebs. I don't see the big deal.[/quote]
[url=http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Appeal_to_celebrity]Appeal to Celebrity[/url]
You have also seen people boast about 114%ATT. Shout out to [b]Alucya[/b] of Windia!

[quote=cherrytigers]However if you are at 301% boss WITH nebs, recube and try to land 1 line %pdr and 2 lines %atk on your emblem.[/quote]
[quote=cherrytigers]Your post seems to be coming from a perfectionist point of view? Correct me if I'm wrong because I'm a bit confused. If it is indeed a perfectionist point of view, then in my humble opinion, it would be unwise to follow. I don't know the TS. Maybe he's a perfectionist or is rich in real life. If that is the case, then by all means. But most everyone on Maplestory, me included, even though people think I am rich, cannot afford such an investment.[/quote]

I am going to assume this guy's emblem is 18% ATT and the bonus potential, if it exists, is not noteworthy. Therefore he has at least two lines of %ATT on his emblem's regular potential. What you told him to try to land (one line of %IED [b]with[/b] two lines of %ATT) cannot be misinterpreted as the "or" case. For the benefit of the doubt, let us say you also meant two lines of %IED with one line of %ATT. What do you think will be more expensive - recubing for the three lines aforementioned or getting two %boss nebs? Getting the three good lines seems to be more of a perfectionist idea. In your humble opinion, it would be unwise to follow.

[quote=defiled]For example, would 70% PDR(40 + 30), 9% ATT be better than 21% ATT on an emblem?[/quote]
Short answer: Yes
Boring answer: Getting three useful lines such as these cost a fortune. However, I would think that even 40%IED/9%ATT is better than 21%ATT.

For any further assistance, it would be helpful if you told us your %TD since it is necessary for calculating your damage. Do not forget Kanna and Demon Avenger link skills.
It would also help if you told us any additional boosts from skills that give %boss or %TD. I only know about heroes from top to bottom.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ipK2myXH0tE1T392RESJkS4asWoS5JNAzE5YG5kEudk/edit#gid=65
If it does not load properly, it is the second tab on the bottom of the page.

@cherrytigers: It is quite literally always more efficient funding wise to invest in pdr lines and % boss nebs. The math is really straightforward, getting one 40% pdr line would get him to 89% pdr, whereas a neb would get him to 85%. With the 40% pdr line he'll do 1.2x as much damage on cvellum compared to what he'd be doing with a pdr neb. Any boss nebs will be relatively negligible when adding to his damage since he already has really high % boss damage, but since he'll probably lose at least one line of % boss getting % pdr it's still better in every way.
2 21% pdr lines would put him at:
1-(1-0.81)(1-0.21)(1-0.21) = 11.8% not ignored = 88% pdr, worse than one single 40% pdr line and taking up 2 neb slots.

I mean, even if he doesn't put a boss neb in right now. Cubing for one 40% pdr line is more efficient damage wise, even if he loses 30% boss damage.

You have to remember that you get an additional 20% boss from Quad throw hyper and that Frailty curse cuts another 30%(?) if you have a point located into it.
I would try get another 30% pdr to make it 86, with frailty curse active you'll be fine that way.

[quote=rorik92]please don't do any of what he just suggested, there is literally no case for an endgame character where using 21% pdr nebs even makes sense.

for example we'll compare a 40% pdr line, a 30% pdr line, and a 21% pdr line from a neb to the damage increase you'd get from a boss line/neb and pdr lines
We'll use cvellums 300% pdr for this example because it makes things obvious

pdr calculations
1-(1-0.81)(1-0.40) = 0.114 not ignored = 89% defense ignored (40% pdr line)
1-(1-0.81)(1-0.30) = 0.133 not ignored = 87% defense ignored (30% pdr line)
1-(1-0.81)(1-0.21) = 0.150 not ignored = 85% defense ignored (21% pdr line)

3 * 11% = 33% damage lost = 67% of your true damage dealt
3 * 13% = 39% damage lost = 61% of your true damage dealt
3 * 15% = 45% damage lost = 55% of your true damage dealt

67/55 = 1.2 = a 20% damage increase overall

boss calculations
301% boss damage
301 + 40 + 100% (base) = 441% (40% boss damage line)
301 + 30 + 100% (base) = 431% (30% boss damage line)
301 + 25 + 100% (base) = 426% (25% boss damage line)

441/426 = 1.035 = a 3.5% damage increase

Obviously I didn't take into account what lines you lose in exchange, but for the most part that will be negligable in comparison. Keep in mind that stacking %pdr doesn't work well though after the 90% mark, as you will be gaining less and less per source.

If you have any further questions regarding pdr please reference http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/2706812/4/Ignoring_Defense.html[/quote]

plz dont listen to this guy.

i use pdr neb on my main weapon (40boss 35 boss 30 pdr/12m.att% 12%boss 1crap line), and it works perfectly fine and cost way less than a boss neb(my total boss is around 250 no dojo glove).

Even with 4 lines of 40 boss u wont be able to achieve 301 boss (without boss neb or 20IA). so tehres no way to get that 301+40 or other sort of bs.

when u make comparison it should start from 250 boss or lower because u cannot have both pdr and boss at the same time. u will have to lose pdr line to get boss line.

optimally u want 2-3 lines of 30%+pdr lines from all three weapons,if u at 81% pdr that means u only have 0-1 pdr line, which is still fine, coz u got a lot boss. best u should do is using pdr neb like wut @cherrytiger said, or spend a lot more money to fix all ur weapons' normal pots.

ive been playing around wiht the nebs and now i have 96% pdr wiht all links(i also use reinforced set here) and i can def say in boss like cvellum/lotus, my dmg is way better wiht that extra 21% pdr instead of 25 boss.

also if u dont like pdr neb u can spend less than 1k nx to remove it. not a big deal for a guy wiht 301 boss dmg.

On topic 40 +30 pdr+9att is insane, u should keep it. i dont know wut kinda of emblem u talking here(probably gold maple one). the 40 pdr lines helps a lot. u may get good free emblem form tower of oz. emblem is the only thing that u should give up att for pdr.

@rorik92
Your post seems to be coming from a perfectionist point of view? Correct me if I'm wrong because I'm a bit confused. If it is indeed a perfectionist point of view, then in my humble opinion, it would be unwise to follow. I don't know the TS. Maybe he's a perfectionist or is rich in real life. If that is the case, then by all means. But most everyone on Maplestory, me included, even though people think I am rich, cannot afford such an investment.

My post is coming from someone who doesn't like spending lots of money in perfecting items. I'm not looking to recube for perfection, rather, I'm looking to just find a way to hit something in the ballpark of "efficient" and moving on to spending money on other things. He can solo chaos vellum with those potentials. In my mind, that's good. As long as it gets the job done, that's all I care about. That is why I overlook things such as excel spreadsheets of %boss vs %atk because as long as you got a good amount of each, you're good to go. We have so few limited lines where we can get these lines that even if there is a difference, I don't see it being significant enough to really stick out as long as you're not rocking 100% boss only.

Realistically, even people who are considered "rich" in game don't spend that much on perfecting lines because there's no point in "optimizing" your lines so that you're flawlessly efficient. As long as you have high %boss and %attack, you gud.

How big of a difference will it make in him putting 1 PDR neb and 1 boss neb, vs 2 PDR nebs, vs 2 boss nebs?
I've funded 5 characters now, and I truly believe that attaching at least 1 PDR neb wouldn't destroy him, especially since his 3 weapon potential items are already good as they are.

To be honest, I'm a bit confused by the math you did. Are you saying that he should stay at 81% pdr and place two boss nebs? I didn't do the math, but I've re-equipped nebs and done my own personal tests and the numbers came the other way around. Granted, I didn't have 300% boss like he did.

Cubing is undefined. Nebs, on the other hand, are something you can choose. Of course, you'd only really be selecting between boss and %pdr nebs.

I've even seen people like Cocosnawk use 21% pdr nebs. I don't see the big deal.
If you so happen to cube your items and you just land on piles of %boss, why recube and lose that for some %pdr when you can place nebs?

[quote=cherrytigers]@defiled You're at 301% boss without any nebs? Don't recube anything. Just get some 21% pdr nebulites and you'll be good.

However if you are at 301% boss WITH nebs, recube and try to land 1 line %pdr and 2 lines %atk on your emblem.[/quote]

please don't do any of what he just suggested, there is literally no case for an endgame character where using 21% pdr nebs even makes sense.

for example we'll compare a 40% pdr line, a 30% pdr line, and a 21% pdr line from a neb to the damage increase you'd get from a boss line/neb and pdr lines
We'll use cvellums 300% pdr for this example because it makes things obvious

pdr calculations
1-(1-0.81)(1-0.40) = 0.114 not ignored = 89% defense ignored (40% pdr line)
1-(1-0.81)(1-0.30) = 0.133 not ignored = 87% defense ignored (30% pdr line)
1-(1-0.81)(1-0.21) = 0.150 not ignored = 85% defense ignored (21% pdr line)

3 * 11% = 33% damage lost = 67% of your true damage dealt
3 * 13% = 39% damage lost = 61% of your true damage dealt
3 * 15% = 45% damage lost = 55% of your true damage dealt

67/55 = 1.2 = a 20% damage increase overall

boss calculations
301% boss damage
301 + 40 + 100% (base) = 441% (40% boss damage line)
301 + 30 + 100% (base) = 431% (30% boss damage line)
301 + 25 + 100% (base) = 426% (25% boss damage line)

441/426 = 1.035 = a 3.5% damage increase

Obviously I didn't take into account what lines you lose in exchange, but for the most part that will be negligable in comparison. Keep in mind that stacking %pdr doesn't work well though after the 90% mark, as you will be gaining less and less per source.

If you have any further questions regarding pdr please reference http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/2706812/4/Ignoring_Defense.html

@defiled You're at 301% boss without any nebs? Don't recube anything. Just get some 21% pdr nebulites and you'll be good.

However if you are at 301% boss WITH nebs, recube and try to land 1 line %pdr and 2 lines %atk on your emblem.

I'm sitting at 301% boss
Main wep 35% boss 18% attack, which I want to keep
Secondary 60% boss 30% pdr
Not counting nebs and set effects

Just my emblem with 18% attack and 1 junk line that I want to cube right now. I can't edit your spreadsheet.