General

@star909: Oops liked your post instead of hitting the reply button.

But yeah, probably just a tad shorter than that in game. (On-paper calcs can never compensate enough for actual in game environments)

@elufu: yeah that's what I meant, so it's about a 50% increase?

@star909: If you're referring to the changes coming in approximately 2-3months please see link below.
http://www.basilmarket.com/Kms-1-2-245-Mercedes-changes-Thread-b5A7k

Otherwise, you're going to have to elaborate what you mean by "when the 25% elemental ignore 40att goes to 60% damage".

About how much of an increase in Mercedes' damage is it when the 25% elemental ignore 40att goes to 60% damage? I'm trying to run some of my own calculations and how much of a damage increase it is would be helpful

@elufu: Training is never a worry, but wow I didn't know they were getting buffed like that! That's always nice to hear for Merc. Thank you for all of the help!

@rate: No problem.

Just a personal note on the two comparisons you're making. Mercedes will be receiving a buff patch that would bring them to top tier DPS in terms of bossing (currently I would say we're mid-tier), but training wise WH definitely has it easy.

If you do get around working out your style on Mercedes then it's hard to un-main it (IMHO).

@elufu: I'm currently collecting equips for archers, I'm between Mercedes and Wild Hunter. I enjoy Mercedes a whole lot more, but I don't know if I will be struggling on it compared to the ease Wild Hunter seems to showcase. I'll have roughly 16-18k dex. If the gap between their DPS/DPM isn't too huge, I wouldn't mind playing Mercedes over the stronger Wild Hunter, purely because I enjoy the class more. Out of all the classes I have ever played, Mercedes is one of my favorite. So unique! Thank you again for doing all the work collaborating with others to make all these useful docs. No other class has such helpful staff

@rate: Interesting. Thanks for letting me know. I found out what the issue is too.

It seems to be auto censoring "do" before "cs". I'll be editing the OP to have the full url however I can't stop basil censoring me. Just add "do" before "cs" and it should work.

[edit] Nvm, found a way around all the hassle. Correcting all hyperlinks.

Thanks again for letting me know

[Edit2] Few things to note. I haven't been able to grab GMS values on the changed buff delays implemented in the reboot patch. I am currently using kms values that were extracted by SP's Locked quite a while ago.

and WH values now considers a 100% activation rate for another bite. The actual FA effect has a delay and this may be the cause of the previous assumption of a non-100% activation. With reboot, another test concluded much higher activation rates and I have concluded that it is very likely to be 100%.

@elufu: Hiya, when I try to follow any of the archer links to see their stats, it shows up as error 404, is there any way you can reply to me with the proper spreadsheet links? It seems basil ruins them! Thank you very much.

Slowly updating the spreadsheets with the new KMS changes. KMS tables are generally patched up formulas to work for the time being, expect minor differences when they roll into GMS (especially the buff delay changes which was implemented prior to 1.2.245 and is not into effect for these calcs... because I'm lazy).

MM changes not implemented as it is a very minor buff.

Also, starting to prepare for the in-game recorder (hopefully we get this thing).

@elufu: Ah I see now. So a capping bowmaster (working final attack) really is better than a capping shad (w/ MC) during epic adventure thanks!

@dominion: Each class.. as in every job? I don't think there's a readily available collated list for that. You'll just have to scavenge through each job-type forum and find information from there.

The bowman hits/s is broken down per skill and provided within the spreadsheets.

@Elufu Do you have a flat number of hits/sec for each class, before final attack and other summons? I can't seem to find a reliable number anywhere

Apparently KMST revealed that the AP stats you can add to in the hyper stat system do not stack with potential and work like Inner Ability does.

Seriously mercedes stop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFLkCOfdMKY

[quote=twopointonefour]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MaUKnGzhIw

Mercedes get all the fun.[/quote]

Current GMS Mercedes can do that with Leap Tornado since day 1. What we can't do is spam spikes or other skills that require you to hit the floor once.

There's also weird things in Aqua Road where the platforms don't register as platforms so you can stand in one spot and Leap tornado indefinitely (until the 100 attack skill limitation comes in).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MaUKnGzhIw

Mercedes get all the fun.

@Elufu: Good idea. My only reccomendation then is to show that the Armor Break column is 100% proc via note or renaming the column.

Before and After rows look great now.

@bluebomber24: It's for me to check errors. This is how i figured I was over compensating/not activating armor break correctly. I had too many lines in the formula that it got confusing for me.

Hence why it's now broken off. I can dim the font colour but I'll need it to make sure I'm doing things right.

Cleaning up for all classes complete (except KMS WA, which i cannot care any less to fix). Current GMS patch applied and Bowman summary table now also reflects these changes.

@Elufu: Uh.....it kinda confusing. I still didn't get it until I looked at the formula. The way its phrased, it made it sound like the first column was a Bowmasters DPS without Armor Break and the second wtih Armor Break at the 11% rate. However, it looks like the second column has Armor Break at 100%. I could see this column being useful for Arrow Stream, but I am not seeing why a BM cares about Break at 100% for Hurricane.

@bluebomber24: Damage reduction from monsters. Basically all the things that used to be hidden in one cell got broken up into components. Read top to bottom. Your total is in the darker green box.

It's the same thing. Your primary source of attack is Hurricane. The KMS sheet just has an old reference to the comparison with Blaster, which is no longer feasible as a primary attack.

@Elufu

After Reduction and Before Reduction? Need a note on cell to explain.

GMS just says DPS. KMS says Hurricane DPS. Explain. Comparing those two numbers doesn't make sense to me.

Have not double checked numbers yet. Surprised at the changes to delays...crazy.

@bluebomber24: The Summary has been updated. I didn't bother updating values( and for some the calculator itself) because of the minor utility changes that would only affect <1k%/s of damage.

Notable changes are for BM, WH and WA.

Regarding Armor Break, as I have kind of touched the KMS BMs are more than likely to output a higher trigger rate for armor break in reality and looks way more consistent than how it is acting right now in GMS. This is definitely a plus that I can't quantify on the calculator other than to say GMS BM %/s has and will continue to be over compensated until the KMS patch rolls out here in GMS.

Simply put the recent changes have made things more clear (can't say it's 100% clear yet) regarding the skill description and how things work. The new damage recorder is probably a more useful tool for DPS comparisons and I'm sure someone will be bound to do physical tests and rank these classes with clean-ish gear.

I note there are significant core %/s increases for BM and WA, however against high PDR targets... you really need to make sure you have sufficient %ID. No change there.

Low end superiority: WH, BM
Medium end superiority: MM, Merc
High end (capping users): WH, BM

and.. I guess.. WA just gets their crown for multiple targets only, whether this is a fine balance or not..I don't know but it's quite interesting what each job's specialty is.

[edit] Making some changes to the BM sheet slowly to breakdown the armor break component (which isn't really portrayed anywhere)
[2nd edit] After cleaning up the cells and reworking.. looks like I applied too many reduction parameters to reflect armor break not triggering 72% of the time. i.e. You might see an increase in DPS. Still reworking and checking formulas though. I blame .. the many switches and controls I need to implement for BMs...

Should all be fine now. I'm going to do this for the rest to make sure everything is correct. (Btw changing the proc % to 15% .. barely gives extra damage)

@bluebomber24: See I wasn't wrong when I said the kms team believed marksman were superior!

@Elufu Let me know when your finished with everything, so I can look over.

Also, Armor Break is more of a nerf per this DPS calculator and not neccesarily on the correct paper damage for GMS. Right now we are assuming, that since Break activates 28% of the time it affects 28% of the damage. However, lets assume that Break is not bugged except the Y variable that we now know is what makes Break disappear for 10+ seconds if Hurricane is held. Under this assumption, from what is seen Break activats about every 4 seconds and also has four hits. That happens to be 12%. I never narrowed down my tests due to me believing Break is bugged and also it not matching up with its mechanic or Streams activation rate. But if my tests are on to something and Break is not bugged for the most part Break affects 12-16% of a BMs dps.

I am not re-installing MS to retest, so either someone else does it or it unfortunately stays at a toggable 28% until the Patch hits....or have two Armor Break toggables >_>.

@twopointonefour Looks at damage calculator changes...remember when I said BMs probaly got overbuffed....I changed my mind >_>. I actually think it was needed.

Jeez wind archer really needs ignore defense.

I think i've added the major changes from 1.2.238 for all classes now and while I was cleaning up/implementing the new armor break change I figured there was a major blunder on my side triggering armor break on all shots for GMS BMs.

Going to review all my calculations and come back to explain what this means. (Only affects %/s, theoretical hits/s remain)

[edit] Previously my calculator would say on Cvel with 65%ID a BM would output 12k%/s but this should have actually been 5.7k%/s. Sincere apologies for a significantly misleading %/s especially for Cvel.

Raw output, hits/s remains unchanged for GMS.

The new KMS changes show that the armor break changes are now more consistent in game, however on paper it's essentially a drop from 28% to 11%(Armor break's effect may be higher than 11% of total DPS on a situational basis).

Will be updating [url=https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LRgTU3iPDDBh0TSYVDgm-bZYbagsC2GGzmywMaDdXQw/edit#gid=0]this[/url] in a few days to reflect the kms1.2.238 changes. The GMS BM value has been corrected.

[quote=bluebomber24]Fixed.[/quote]

Well I'm just saying cause we get focused fury and that blocks so many attacks, in fact I may put enough points to get to 100% status resist while using a resistance potion.

[quote=twopointonefour]I guess status resist is the last thing you'll want as a Archer.[/quote]

Fixed.

I guess status resist is the last thing you'll want as a bow master.

@bluebomber24: Yeah.. it should be quite obvious.

@Elufu: I was thinking more alont the lines of the hypers each job should aim for, like how Mercedes should usually run from PDR and TD/Boss. But it seems like the choice is universal based on minsa's posts.

@LimsaLominsa Wow...that hyper is just ew then...

@Elufu: is it really element ignore or is it just a poor translation of resistance to elements? Just saw your post above this. disregard.

[quote=LimsaLominsa]I was assuming from the weird translations it was that useless elemental defense stat instead of elemental ignore. I mean they have a jump stat increase hyper. If it's ignore than that takes 100% priority[/quote]

Just had a look at the Japanese translations. It's Elemental Resistance and not ER Ignore.

[quote=bluebomber24]What about phys resist ignore[/quote]

I was assuming from the weird translations it was that useless elemental defense stat instead of elemental ignore. I mean they have a jump stat increase hyper. If it's ignore than that takes 100% priority

@twopointonefour @bluebomber24 Eh.. can't you use the existing features on the DPS analysis to find the efficiency of each hyper increase (except stat increase..)? The only thing worthwhile adding is ER ignore.

Let me.. erm just get through all the skill changes first.

[quote=LimsaLominsa]I already did some numbers last night so, if you're level 250(less than 50 people are) you can easily max out almost all of the damage related hypers. 400~ people are level 230 and over 1500 are at least 220. I am also 220 so I should have 551 points which lets me max out like 3 and a half damage hypers. I have 267%~ boss and lots of other total damage since I am a merc. doing some rough calculations tells me that:

Dex hyper increases my damage by 4.2%
min crit: 6.2%
max crit: 9.1%(15% increase total if you max both)
total dmg: 5.6%
boss dmg: 6.6%(12.3% increase total if you max both)

so priority-wise the crit hypers take precedent followed by the total damage ones as you would have probably already expected. ignore defense is more of a wildcard depending on how much you had to begin with and if you are fighting c.vellum. again this is based off of my stats and class, but I don't think anything should be radically different in terms of priority regardless.
I would just max them out one by one instead of spreading my points around, but I don't know if there is a more optimal way and this stuff is still in kmst so whatever[/quote]

What about phys resist ignore

I already did some numbers last night so, if you're level 250(less than 50 people are) you can easily max out almost all of the damage related hypers. 400~ people are level 230 and over 1500 are at least 220. I am also 220 so I should have 551 points which lets me max out like 3 and a half damage hypers. I have 267%~ boss and lots of other total damage since I am a merc. doing some rough calculations tells me that:

Dex hyper increases my damage by 4.2%
min crit: 6.2%
max crit: 9.1%(15% increase total if you max both)
total dmg: 5.6%
boss dmg: 6.6%(12.3% increase total if you max both)

so priority-wise the crit hypers take precedent followed by the total damage ones as you would have probably already expected. ignore defense is more of a wildcard depending on how much you had to begin with and if you are fighting c.vellum. again this is based off of my stats and class, but I don't think anything should be radically different in terms of priority regardless.
I would just max them out one by one instead of spreading my points around, but I don't know if there is a more optimal way and this stuff is still in kmst so whatever

[quote=bluebomber24]@elufu more work for the elf

Edit: my phone somehow auto correct the "the elufu" to " the elf". ....good enough phone...good enough.[/quote]

Always more work for recentlymade's friend.

@elufu more work for the elf

Edit: my phone somehow auto correct the "the elufu" to " the elf". ....good enough phone...good enough.

[quote=bluebomber24] I did but I didn't know my phone was this incompetent. But basically what I posted suggest the opposite of what your saying in some regards.[/quote]

Ahh I see. Well as it stands now I'm most likely incapable of finishing CV with my 15k dex. I'm hoping with the implement of the hyper stat system and the bow master changes that it will become reality that I can finish CV solo or at least be equal to my shadower friend with 15~k luk who can solo CV.

Perhaps when the battle stats system is implemented to gms someone can reset their armor break points and solo maybe madman ranmaru (punching bag) then add to armor break and post the stats.

@Elufu : Can you perhaps shed some light on what hyper stats are ideal for archers in general? I think by level 250 you get 897(?) points to use and it takes 150 to max out a 15 point ability.

@twopointonefour: I did but I didn't know my phone was this incompetent. But basically what I posted suggest the opposite of what your saying in some regards.

[quote=bluebomber24]@twopointonefour:[/quote]

Are you going to elaborate?

@twopointonefour:

@bluebomber24: Typical archer nature.. higher on paper than reality. I still think this will be enough to make a large impact on Chaos Vellum, possibly even a solo with 12~14k dex.

[quote=twopointonefour]Really liking this armor break change immensely. It might because of Orangemushrooms ping but the armor break triggers seem to take a bit longer than a second to re-occur while using hurricane.[/quote]

I haven't got a chance to break down the video yet to super confirm but Armor Break arrows appear before Armor Breaks animation and is usually the very first arrow. This also created an interesting reality. Because of how Armor Break works there are training maps where it would affect more than 50% of Arrow Stream. Remember spamed Stream is 50% but if you kill a mob with break and take a second to double jump or reach the next mob Armor Break should activate again. That's a 100% activation. Likewise, if you only get 3 hits off on Vellum before he disappears the first arrow is Armor Broken while the other 2 are not. Now let's say that happens every time the whole battle and it always takes a second for you to do the next hit. In that case Break affects 33% of your damage not 12-14%.

While I still have to analyze, it is definitely possible there are scenarios where a BMs efficiency % (NOT TO BE CONUFUSED WITH DPS) is higher than what paper calcs would suggest.

Really liking this armor break change immensely. It might because of Orangemushrooms ping but the armor break triggers seem to take a bit longer than a second to re-occur while using hurricane.

@Elufu: I was ignoring split

its 4/27.5 for 14.5% unsplit and 5/35.83 for 13.9% split. unless I am missing something.

Split Hurricane and Turret with no other activations is 12%. Since AFA and Magic arrows are greater than 1/8.333, the percentage can only go up, again unless I am thinking about it wrong.

@bluebomber24: Nope no set-up delays. I thought BM's hypothetical (maximum) hits/s is 35.

@Elufu: I am assuming you are taking delays into cosnideration? Because with no delays against a punching bag it should always be higher than 12%.

@bluebomber24: 35.83 hits/s? Roughly 4-5 arrows at max (including AFA,QFA and Turret) proccing per second is 11-14%.