General

I really hope its smash 4. Palutena and little mac look like legitimate contendors although the lack of capt falcon is making me upset

either way marth is my main and a chance not to face kids who play Roy(flamebouyabt posers.....) will probably tip the scales for me (get it? Marth tipping? No? Ok...)

[quote=Avatar]Totally smashed because he plays competitive and im just a dum dum casual. "Fox has many direction to move in" oh yea up, forward, and up right wow 3 is such a big number i dun goofed. Lets not forget that fox can only use side b or up b and not both while marth has perfect recovery using both his specials. And then he justifies bad gameplay mechanics with abusing exploits and glitches. No I have never wavelanded before but not everyone who plays melee likes to play with exploits. Now I know why Sakurai ignores the competitive scene and I am glad that the sequels have been the way they are.

Yea continue to compare characters based on their tiers because that doesn't reinforce my original statement that this series of games needs more rebalancing that's brilliant work on your part. And for your information marth's neutral B glide can be used if properly executed to bring him from off screen to about the middle of final destination. But of course I play casual so the only stages I like to use are hyrule castle and other dangerous stages right?[/quote]

I think it's because you're so strongly adamant on being casual that you refuse to understand any competitive aspect.

[quote=Marth]#smashed[/quote]

Totally smashed because he plays competitive and im just a dum dum casual. "Fox has many direction to move in" oh yea up, forward, and up right wow 3 is such a big number i dun goofed. Lets not forget that fox can only use side b or up b and not both while marth has perfect recovery using both his specials. And then he justifies bad gameplay mechanics with abusing exploits and glitches. No I have never wavelanded before but not everyone who plays melee likes to play with exploits. Now I know why Sakurai ignores the competitive scene and I am glad that the sequels have been the way they are.

Yea continue to compare characters based on their tiers because that doesn't reinforce my original statement that this series of games needs more rebalancing that's brilliant work on your part. And for your information marth's neutral B glide can be used if properly executed to bring him from off screen to about the middle of final destination. But of course I play casual so the only stages I like to use are hyrule castle and other dangerous stages right?

[quote=Avatar]You mean like link? Or did you forget about him because he is low tier? Don't use that one example I gave you to justify marth's range, he has a lot of opportunities with hitstun to abuse his grabbing distance. Furthermore I don't really care how many people use a character competitively; everybody knows that a more skillful player can defeat a newbie with any character at any stage with any rules so its pointless to bring it up. Fox may have 360 degrees of directions but more than half of them aren't used. Or are you trying to tell me that it is good strategy to use his recovery to move backwards. Fox's up B has startup lag which makes it useless other than a recovery option while marth's up b has great knock back and can be used to move up platforms quickly. Marth is a melee character and like other melee characters (mario, link, ganon, bowser) have less than great recovery to make up for their solid ground work. Then brawl made it even worse now that his neutral b can be used to launch him across the screen....[/quote]

-Marth doesn't have hitstun unless he tips.
-More skillful player can beat a newbie. Why'd you bring that up?
-Actually many of Fox's directions for Up B is used. Your argument on going backwards is pretty idiotic, though.
-Fox's Up B has start up. Yes it does. But it doesn't matter if Fox is smart enough distance himself to not get hit. Something Marth can't do.
-Marth's up b has great knockback at the base. The end has nothing. What are you getting at?
-It can be used to get up platforms quickly? Have you ever wavelanded before? The ending lag on Marth's Up B is so horrible that tactic you mentioned is a death sentence.
-Mario, Link, Ganon, and Bowser have no ground work, lol. Ganon being the best of those 4.

I don't play Brawl, but Marth's Neutral B being used to recover is highly predictable and laggy. Unless you like playing on Hyrule Temple all day, I don't know what to say to you.

[quote=ImaClubYou]If you took away Marth's side b, he couldn't even make it back on stage. His recovery is average at best.

Grab range isn't really a problem unless you like to attack Marth's shield right in front of him like you shouldn't.

Ignoring Ness, since he has possibly the worst recovery in the entire game, Fox's recovery is universally the best barring Mewtwo, since all but one person uses him competitively. Fox has 2 recovery options and those 2 recovery options have options within them. There are theoreticallly 360 different directions you can go with Fox's Up B. His side be is really fast and can be half shortened or fully shortened. They can be used from almost anywhere while Marth's only recovery is up.[/quote]

You mean like link? Or did you forget about him because he is low tier? Don't use that one example I gave you to justify marth's range, he has a lot of opportunities with hitstun to abuse his grabbing distance. Furthermore I don't really care how many people use a character competitively; everybody knows that a more skillful player can defeat a newbie with any character at any stage with any rules so its pointless to bring it up. Fox may have 360 degrees of directions but more than half of them aren't used. Or are you trying to tell me that it is good strategy to use his recovery to move backwards. Fox's up B has startup lag which makes it useless other than a recovery option while marth's up b has great knock back and can be used to move up platforms quickly. Marth is a melee character and like other melee characters (mario, link, ganon, bowser) have less than great recovery to make up for their solid ground work. Then brawl made it even worse now that his neutral b can be used to launch him across the screen....

[quote=Avatar]I never said everything should be taken away from him i just said that he has a lot of moves that make a character good in melee. Combined with his side b marth has excellent recovery since he can move far horizontally and high vertically. The only things i think he should lose is side b movement and his grabbing range which is fair to ask because his animation doesn't even reach as far as the grab does its crazy that marth has a bigger grab range than yoshi's tongue. I know his recovery is not unstoppable but it is really fast which makes it hard to fight against when used unexpectedly compared to ness's recovery or fox's recovery.[/quote]

If you took away Marth's side b, he couldn't even make it back on stage. His recovery is average at best.

Grab range isn't really a problem unless you like to attack Marth's shield right in front of him like you shouldn't.

Ignoring Ness, since he has possibly the worst recovery in the entire game, Fox's recovery is universally the best barring Mewtwo, since all but one person uses him competitively. Fox has 2 recovery options and those 2 recovery options have options within them. There are theoreticallly 360 different directions you can go with Fox's Up B. His side be is really fast and can be half shortened or fully shortened. They can be used from almost anywhere while Marth's only recovery is up.

[quote=ImaClubYou]If you took everything you stated away from Marth he'd be bottom line don't use tier. The tip doing more damage is not a buff, it's necessary. At low percents, Marth's attacks non tipped barely moved people and they can counter attack instantly.

Without the tip, Marth would have no spike, which means he loses a kill move which he is actually lacking.

His recovery is NOT hard to stop. You can't change its direction. It only goes up and slightly forward. What does that mean? It's predictable. Just grab the edge.

@LazyLazyLazy: Melee is by far exponentially more popular that PM.[/quote]

I never said everything should be taken away from him i just said that he has a lot of moves that make a character good in melee. Combined with his side b marth has excellent recovery since he can move far horizontally and high vertically. The only things i think he should lose is side b movement and his grabbing range which is fair to ask because his animation doesn't even reach as far as the grab does its crazy that marth has a bigger grab range than yoshi's tongue. I know his recovery is not unstoppable but it is really fast which makes it hard to fight against when used unexpectedly compared to ness's recovery or fox's recovery.

Smash 4 isn't even out yet....

[quote=Avatar]I want smash 4 to be competitive so I can play with competitive people over wifi. I just hope some characters got rebalanced. Marth had it too good in melee with his side B negating entirely his horizontal momentum and even pushing him forward, his recovery is very fast and very hard to stop, and his crazy grab range lets him do a shield -> grab very easily. To top it off he had that ability where the tip of his sword did more damage...that was an unnecessary buff[/quote]

If you took everything you stated away from Marth he'd be bottom line don't use tier. The tip doing more damage is not a buff, it's necessary. At low percents, Marth's attacks non tipped barely moved people and they can counter attack instantly.

Without the tip, Marth would have no spike, which means he loses a kill move which he is actually lacking.

His recovery is NOT hard to stop. You can't change its direction. It only goes up and slightly forward. What does that mean? It's predictable. Just grab the edge.

@LazyLazyLazy: Melee is by far exponentially more popular that PM.

I thought most competitive players chose Project M over Melee

Melee dabess, not much more to say.

I want smash 4 to be competitive so I can play with competitive people over wifi. I just hope some characters got rebalanced. Marth had it too good in melee with his side B negating entirely his horizontal momentum and even pushing him forward, his recovery is very fast and very hard to stop, and his crazy grab range lets him do a shield -> grab very easily. To top it off he had that ability where the tip of his sword did more damage...that was an unnecessary buff

Smash 4 will dominate for 2 years. Then back to Melee.