General

@bluebomber24 How about Call of The Wild skill that adds an extra 20% avoid, and at least it reduces damage by 20% as well

@airforce1: No prob!

[quote=tsubasa128]@airforce1: I don't know if you read the previous posts but thanks for repeating what they said.[/quote]

Sorry, I was just replying to the quote. Hadn't checked the rest of the thread.

@airforce1: I don't know if you read the previous posts but thanks for repeating what they said.

@tsubasa128: No. The description for the skill is lying. BM/MMs have had the exact same skill for years and it has been tested and proven in game that EB adds 30% [b]avoid[/b] not [b]dodge[/b]. Test is yourself and do the math because that is the only way to know.

@tsubasa128: Oh....they that will push it past 71....would be interesting if it was the same as BM/MM overall.

@TripleBladez: Thanks for the clear up I guess the skill description translation really sucks, and @bluebomber24 they have blind which lowers accuracy of monsters.

@TripleBladez: Yea, I know that, but thats for archers in general. Thiers should fluctuate around 0-71% based on my estimates using my char as a guide and depending on the monsters. BM and MM due to IS is around 0-79%.

@bluebomber24: Ah man, I was wondering why the Union link wouldn't work. xD Only had to take the title out to fix the link.

I don't think WH's should miss that much against mobs since they don't have high Avoid like Thieves in general, but it's strictly dependent on your level, your Avoid, the enemy's level, and the enemy's Accuracy.

[quote=TripleBladez]Might as well quote @tsubasa128 as well so you both can see. [url=http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=29781&page=17&p=956568&viewfull=1#post956568]Look at Locked's post.[/url]

Now look at http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=50725&title=[Union]%20Resistance], check the Wild Hunter (IV) tab and scroll down to Wild Instinct. The strings are in Korean, but you'll see the variable er% which means Evasion Rate. If it was proc%, it'd be Dodge Rate like Shadow Shifter, Illusion Step, etc.

Evasion Rate is always a multiplier, so if Evasion Boost is 30% and Wild Instinct is 10%, you'd have a 1.4x multiplier factored in after your base Avoid/Evasion Rate. WH's have no Dodge Rate.

Another class that has Evasion Rate only, and no Dodge Rate is DB's. Their descriptions on the skills in-game is also a mess on translations (listing Dodge Chance) due to 3 different ways of calculating Avoid (Avoid Rate/Avoidability %, Dodge Rate, Avoid/Evasion Rate).

Look [url=http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=53793&title=KMST%201.2.422%20-%20Dual%20Blade,%20Golden%20Temple,%20Hilla]here.[/url] In the (PvE) Skill Changes tab (note the skill strings are mostly Korean), Rogue has a skill called Side Step that lists er%. Now if you check Slasher (70-119), there's a skill called Shadow Meld that also lists er%. Finally, checking Dual Blader (120+) has Mirrored Target that lists er% too.

Altogether, they have 70% Evasion Rate (15+30+25), which is a 1.7x multiplier after factoring in their base Avoid/Evasion Rate. They have no Dodge Rate.[/quote]

Wow, thanks for the link. So WH, get a 1.4x increase....I guess thier HP or w/e makes up for that low amount.

[quote=bluebomber24]@TripleBladez
Can you provide the link. We know it contributes to Evasion. We want to know if they are multipliers or fixed rates.[/quote]

Might as well quote @tsubasa128 as well so you both can see. [url=http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=29781&page=17&p=956568&viewfull=1#post956568]Look at Locked's post.[/url]

Now look at [url=http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=50725]here.[/url] Check the Wild Hunter (IV) tab and scroll down to Wild Instinct. The strings are in Korean, but you'll see the variable er% which means Evasion Rate. If it was proc%, it'd be Dodge Rate like Shadow Shifter, Illusion Step, etc.

Evasion Rate is always a multiplier, so if Evasion Boost is 30% and Wild Instinct is 10%, you'd have a 1.4x multiplier factored in after your base Avoid/Evasion Rate. WH's have no Dodge Rate.

Another class that has Evasion Rate only, and no Dodge Rate is DB's. Their descriptions on the skills in-game is also a mess on translations (listing Dodge Chance) due to 3 different ways of calculating Avoid (Avoid Rate/Avoidability %, Dodge Rate, Avoid/Evasion Rate).

Look [url=http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=53793&title=KMST%201.2.422%20-%20Dual%20Blade,%20Golden%20Temple,%20Hilla]here.[/url] In the (PvE) Skill Changes tab (note the skill strings are mostly Korean), Rogue has a skill called Side Step that lists er%. Now if you check Slasher (70-119), there's a skill called Shadow Meld that also lists er%. Finally, checking Dual Blader (120+) has Mirrored Target that lists er% too.

Altogether, they have 70% Evasion Rate (15+30+25), which is a 1.7x multiplier after factoring in their base Avoid/Evasion Rate. They have no Dodge Rate.

@Arazthoru: call/instinct/blind are probably helping with that.

Would be weird although not impossible that evasion boost and wild instincts both rise the avoid stat instead of a chance to completely ignore an attack like shadow shifter or illusion step. They have about the same description so should work about the same unless Nexon misleads again.
Besides, a 40% avoid boost would be somewhat pointless since we dont have much base avoid like any bowmen.

[quote=tsubasa128]@bluebomber24: We got a lot of hot times and a lot of resets. Most likely we will have a another hot time for AB and receive a reset as part of the package. I'll use it then and then tell you the results. ^^[/quote]

Sounds good, I actually want to know o.o

@bluebomber24: We got a lot of hot times and a lot of resets. Most likely we will have a another hot time for AB and receive a reset as part of the package. I'll use it then and then tell you the results. ^^

@tsubasa128: Uh, well the best place was in GMST, which I don't even know if we still have that, because you can manipulate your stats and SP

If you have an AP reset scroll test before and after. If you have a SP reset scroll, testing Evasion Boost and Wild Instinct separately would also help.

If you don't have that, just strip your armor unbuffed and test on a low level monster like a snail or hamster and on a LHC monster (assuming you can take the hits). Test the number of misses you get 100 times in sets of 10 for each scenario.

If your miss rate is below 55%, Wild Instinct is probaly a multiplier. If your miss rate is above 55% but not above 60%, Wild Instnct is probably a flat rate.

If its higher than 60%, it could be because of your level and Dex amount or the off chance that Evasion Boost for WH is different. I would have to think about how to approach that scenario. Unfortunately, its harder when you can't manipulate your avatar stats.

@TripleBladez
Can you provide the link. We know it contributes to Evasion. We want to know if they are multipliers or fixed rates.

Evasion Boost and Wild Instinct both contribute to Evasion Rate. You only know this by looking at the extractions where both skills have variables listed as er%.

[quote=bluebomber24]The only way I can think of, without making multiple chars at multiple different levels, is for a WH, that has Wild Instict max to go on a low level monster naked and test thier total MISS rate out. Whatever number they get which is closest to Wild Instinct various calculations would be the answer. It won't be exact, unless they AP reset and SP reset and avoid all Dex skills or something like that.

However, if they have any kind of special animation, then its a block skill and we are done.[/quote]

Nope there are no animation. I have a 4th job wild hunter and it is my main atm so I can test it out. Do you mind give me a bit more direction on how to test the rate. I actually really want to know.

[quote=tsubasa128]@bluebomber24: Hmm. But I guess people can test it out. Do you have any idea how? o.o
Edit: and uhh @Glory listen to him, he knows his stuff.[/quote]

The only way I can think of, without making multiple chars at multiple different levels, is for a WH, that has Wild Instict max to go on a low level monster naked and test thier total MISS rate out. Whatever number they get which is closest to Wild Instinct various calculations would be the answer. It won't be exact, unless they AP reset and SP reset and avoid all Dex skills or something like that.

However, if they have any kind of special animation, then its a block skill and we are done.

@bluebomber24: Hmm. But I guess people can test it out. Do you have any idea how? o.o
Edit: and uhh @Glory listen to him, he knows his stuff.

[quote=tsubasa128]@bluebomber24 It looks like you're right. So dodge for one class is different from dodge for another class o.o? Also the description for dodge chance for wild instinct and evasion boost is exactly the same. One says dodge chance 30% while the other states dodge chance 10%. How do you know whether it adds to the flat or it is a multiplier?

Edit: didn't see that edit. That's what I got confused about. I previously believed it adds to the flat chance of dodge rate.[/quote]

Because BM/MM have the exact same Evasion Boost skill and its been tested in the past. That's why I know its a multiplier. I am not sure about Wild Instinct though, I assumed it was a Block skill like Illusion Step.

Edit: I am also giving Wild Instinct the benefit of the doubt. Being a 4th job giving less evasion than Evasion Boost would be dumb. But yes, it could be exactly like Evasion Boost and be a multiplier, but thats pretty weak if you ask me.

@bluebomber24 It looks like you're right. So dodge for one class is different from dodge for another class o.o? Also the description for dodge chance for wild instinct and evasion boost is exactly the same. One says dodge chance 30% while the other states dodge chance 10%. How do you know whether it adds to the flat or it is a multiplier?

Edit: didn't see that edit. That's what I got confused about. I previously believed it adds to the flat chance of dodge rate.

[quote=tsubasa128]Sorry you're gonna have to look at your sources again. Dodge and avoid, although they are similar, do not directly affect each other.
http://www.basilmarket.com/MapleStory-Guide-Phantom-Guide-431.html#6
scroll to the bottom it states the following:
Avoid. Which is the stat in your window. This calculates an Evasion Rate.
Avoid Rate. Which multiplies your avoid by whatever percentage it is, this contributes to the Evasion Rate.
Dodge Rate. This is a flat chance to avoid an attack. This is what Mist Mask and Carte Noir's passive is.
Evasion Rate%. This multiplies your evasion rate by whatever percentage it provides. This is what Dextrous Training and Feather Foot is.

Also evasion boost's description is "Dodge Chance: 30%, all attacks following a successful dodge for 1 sec will be criticals." So they have 40% dodge.[/quote]

I am not sure I am understanding you, but that applies to Phantoms and not neccesarily all other classes. Nexon throws the wording around too much. Evasion Bosst does not add a flat rate %, its a multiplier of the evade rate. Wild Instinct is a flat chance to dodge an attack.

I will use different wording to emphasise what is happening for WH:

[b]False[/b]
Average Clean Chance for Miss: 38%
Evasion Boost: 30% Increase
Wild Instinct: 10% increase
[i]Total Chance for Miss: 78%[/i]

[b]True[/b]
Average Clean Chance for Miss: 38%
Evasion Boost: 1.3x Increase
[i]Total Chance for Miss: 49.4%[/i]
Wild Instinct: 10% Block
[i]Total Ability to Remain Unharmed: (.494+.1)-(.494*.1) = .594-.0494= [b]54.46%[/b] [/i]

Please correct any error

Edit: Actually I may be wrong. Can a WH confirm what Wild Instict does? I think that one IS a flat increase to Dodge Chance and would boost thier Total Chance for MISS to 59.4%.

[quote=airforce1]No. Evasion Boost is an invisible 30% increase to [b]AVOID[/b] as in the stat. The skill description which reads "dodge" is incorrect. There is no animation for EB and BM/MMs with this skill will never have the word "Dodge" appear (I don't know if that 4th job dodge skill for WH has this). However, Illusion Step is 30% [b]dodge[/b] and has an animation (golden wings and your character smiles).

@tsubasa128 WH's have only have 10% dodge, but considerably higher %avoid.[/quote]

Sorry you're gonna have to look at your sources again. Dodge and avoid, although they are similar, do not directly affect each other.
http://www.basilmarket.com/MapleStory-Guide-Phantom-Guide-431.html#6
scroll to the bottom it states the following:
Avoid. Which is the stat in your window. This calculates an Evasion Rate.
Avoid Rate. Which multiplies your avoid by whatever percentage it is, this contributes to the Evasion Rate.
Dodge Rate. This is a flat chance to avoid an attack. This is what Mist Mask and Carte Noir's passive is.
Evasion Rate%. This multiplies your evasion rate by whatever percentage it provides. This is what Dextrous Training and Feather Foot is.

Also evasion boost's description is "Dodge Chance: 30%, all attacks following a successful dodge for 1 sec will be criticals." So they have 40% dodge.

[quote=Glory]Ok so, in conclusion, evasion boost is 30% chance to DODGE instead of an avoid stat rise, right?
Guess that evasion boost/wild instincts dont show up as "Dodge" but a plain miss instead.[/quote]

No. Evasion Boost is an invisible 30% increase to [b]AVOID[/b] as in the stat. The skill description which reads "dodge" is incorrect. There is no animation for EB and BM/MMs with this skill will never have the word "Dodge" appear (I don't know if that 4th job dodge skill for WH has this). However, Illusion Step is 30% [b]dodge[/b] and has an animation (golden wings and your character smiles).

@tsubasa128 WH's have only have 10% dodge, but considerably higher %avoid.

[quote=Arazthoru]I do not believe that, im pretty sure that is 30%flat cuz my wh is dodging more frequetly than my merc or my db and hardly got any decent equip[/quote]

Its not. -_- Its the exact same thing as a BM/MM which was tested about a year ago. The only reason why it seems small is because he used an example that is really low, which resulted in only a negligible boost. Based on my data I kept from that year-ago test, Evasion Boosted Avoid for most Archers is approximately calculated as follows:

Average Clean Dodge Rate: 38%
Evasion Boost: 1.3x Increase
Evasion Boosted Dodge Rate: 49.4%

All of a sudden instead of increasing the dodge rate by 3% in one scenario, its increasing it by 11% in another.

@Glory: Yes % Avoid, %evade, and % dodge are three different things but all sum up to avoiding a monster's attack. Not using pots is pretty normal. Wild Hunter's survivability improved generously in their last buff. And yes no special word is gonna show up. Any 'miss' you see will activate evasion boost.

[quote=tsubasa128]No it's just like he says, there's a passive boost of +30% dodge with an active skill of attacking in 100% crit for one second. If your wild hunter dodges more than your db then it's either your wh out levels your db by ALOT or you didn't see it correctly. Wh's evasion boost is the same exact skill as db's shadow meld. Also Dbs have around 60/70% dodge with more %avoid/evasion while wh only have 40% dodge.
Please check again[/quote]

Ok so, in conclusion, evasion boost is 30% chance to DODGE instead of an avoid stat rise, right?
To be honest, i barely take damage on my wild hunter at lhc. I used a single mp pot in like 2 hours of training, which is amazing to me, a veteran corsair/mechanic player (coupled with swipe ofc).
Guess that evasion boost/wild instincts dont show up as "Dodge" but a plain miss instead.

[quote=Arazthoru]I do not believe that, im pretty sure that is 30%flat cuz my wh is dodging more frequetly than my merc or my db and hardly got any decent equip[/quote]

No it's just like he says, there's a passive boost of +30% dodge with an active skill of attacking in 100% crit for one second. If your wild hunter dodges more than your db then it's either your wh out levels your db by ALOT or you didn't see it correctly. Wh's evasion boost is the same exact skill as db's shadow meld. Also Dbs have around 60/70% dodge with more %avoid/evasion while wh only have 40% dodge.
Please check again

[quote=ketchup11]also, evasion boost isn't a flat 30% chance to dodge. it's a 30% increase of your current chance to dodge, so if you have a 10% chance for monsters to miss, 10% x 1.3 = 13%.[/quote]

I do not believe that, im pretty sure that is 30%flat cuz my wh is dodging more frequetly than my merc or my db and hardly got any decent equip

[quote=Glory]Oh i see, i m confused because i have a marksman as well and almost sure the "Dodge" word appears on top after a successful dodge. I thought evasion boost was supposed to work like that.
Does this dodge be illusion step, and not evasion boost?[/quote]

MMs should not have the word dodge showing up unless thier IS animation is different from BMs.

Oh i see, i m confused because i have a marksman as well and almost sure the "Dodge" word appears on top after a successful dodge. I thought evasion boost was supposed to work like that.
Does this dodge be illusion step, and not evasion boost?

also, evasion boost isn't a flat 30% chance to dodge. it's a 30% increase of your current chance to dodge, so if you have a 10% chance for monsters to miss, 10% x 1.3 = 13%.

Your probably confused from other classes skills that are similar to evasion boost. For instance, shadow meld does the same thing as evasion boost except shadow meld has a buff appearing on the top right corner for one second. Evasion boost does the same thing except there's no buff appearing.

Not working as in monsters aren't missing you...? It doesn't have any fancy animation like Illusion step, Mist mask, Ignis roar, etc. It just makes monsters more likely to miss you, and afterwards, all attacks are criticals. Works fine on both my Wild hunter and Marksman.