General

@ForeverNL:
Meso explosion is stronger than midnight carnival and is faster. It hits faster than phantom blow too. Either way midnight carnival dpm overtakes phantom blow's at 80m, but if you combine midnight carnival and meso explosion with pickpocket, you can surpass db when you hit low 70m with midnight carnival as long as you use meso explosion when there's 25+ bags on the floor. I don't think any really thinks midnight carnival is only better than phantom blow when it hits 100m and any time not before.

I did not mean it took 5m range to hit 70m. I said a 5m range increase from when you hit 80m will be sufficient to go to 100m, which is pretty accurate. 5m range will get you to hit 40m+ with midnight carnival on bosses if you have a reasonable amount of boss damage. This is the main reason why making a dual blade is better for most of the game. They are stronger from 1m range until you have around 10m range.

edit:
Just realized I was a little unclear before, my bad.
What I meant to say is you do not need 100m to beat dual blades.
DBs hit 95 times/min or so. With the same stats, shadowers hit ~65 times including delays.
Shadowers hit 12.7 times (8x + 7*0.7), while DBs hit 10.2 times.
We will disregard other values such as poison. We will also disregard mesos explosion, which will work in shadower's favor.

So as long as 65 * 12.7 * shadower's damage > 95 * 10.2 * 50, then shadowers will do more damage. This happens around 60m damage (58). However taking in account that faster attacks are easier to maneuver around, let's just bump that up to 70m average damage for when shadowers are more effective than DBs.

Also the 5m was just an estimate off the top of my head based on my range. I meant to say 5m is about 30m damage in midnight carnival (on bosses, which I again forgot to say), which is somewhat accurate.

Conclusion: Yeah if you have 10m range, then you will be better than dual blades, but until then you should play a DB unless you want to be a shadower for novelty's sake.

[quote=Kirbys]@ForeverNL:
I meant it's 5m range from 70m-80m to 100m. The point of this was midnight carnival is only better when you hit 70m or so when it's combined with mesos explosion which is faster than pb when you have max stacks of the floor. With 5m range you can hit 30m. ME is stronger than MC by a lot and it hits faster. Without ME MC overtakes PB at low 80m.[/quote]
I seriously have no idea what you're smoking, can i have some? You make no sense to me ):

[quote=AuctionBidder]I just switched and I regret it... Shad feels too slow and repetitive[/quote]

This. Shads are extremely slow and boring of a class to play. They were SED mules pre-bb and never really improved much even after the revamps.

@ForeverNL:
I meant it's 5m range from 70m-80m to 100m. The point of this was midnight carnival is only better when you hit 70m or so when it's combined with mesos explosion which is faster than pb when you have max stacks of the floor. With 5m range you can hit 30m. ME is stronger than MC by a lot and it hits faster. Without ME MC overtakes PB at low 80m.

[quote=ForeverNL]I doubt you can hit 70-80m with MC with 5m range lol. Also MC is significantly slower than PB.[/quote]

It's slower, but not SIGNIFICANTLY slower. But yeah, it's ME that blows PB out of the water.

[quote=Kirbys]You would not be stronger on a shadower and I would not switch to a shadower even though that is the case. You'll probably hit the change point soon (maybe 500k on a db?)
Shadowers also are better than DBs well before the 110m cap on midnight carnival. It's about when you hit 70-80m (this is significant as it's about 5m range).

Shadower Pros:
-No damage cap on midnight carnival (you won't get to 110, barely anyone gets there). Hard to reach cap for skills like boomerang stab on regular monsters.
-Able to do gollux much easier than on a db because of dark flare
-Can easily do arkarium better than I think any class. I have like a 0% chance of dying in it because smokescreen dodges the full map attack, assassinate targets the first target in the map that was spawned (the boss itself).
-Stronger buffs, can't beat 25% damage 50% crit rate and 50m damage cap raise. That is one of the best if not the best single buff in the game. No, it is not a hassle to cast.
-Phase dash is good

Dual Blade Pros:
-MUCH faster. Much easier to boss. I can pretty much do any boss... if I use boomerang stab only or if I use controlled assassinate. Bstep/stab is slow and weak but safe. I basically won't die in chaos von bon if I use it. However even though assassinate is much faster than it was, I still don't make the jump sometimes that I need for CVB. DB is fast and this is much better for bossing. You won't be forced into bad situations often and you can dodge more.
-MUCH better after a certain point of the game until you get to the far endgame. I think after a specific time they even beat NL but NL is boss and training easy mode for the adventurers. Do not pay attention to dpm charts. They are not an accurate representation of the thief adventurer classes or everyone would be a shadower. They beat shadowers for sure rather early. When you cap with assassinate last strike DB might be more favorable. This is around 700k range.[/quote]

I doubt you can hit 70-80m with MC with 5m range lol. Also MC is significantly slower than PB.

You would not be stronger on a shadower and I would not switch to a shadower even though that is the case. You'll probably hit the change point soon (maybe 500k on a db?)
Shadowers also are better than DBs well before the 110m cap on midnight carnival. It's about when you hit 70-80m (this is significant as it's about 5m range).

Shadower Pros:
-No damage cap on midnight carnival (you won't get to 110, barely anyone gets there). Hard to reach cap for skills like boomerang stab on regular monsters.
-Able to do gollux much easier than on a db because of dark flare
-Can easily do arkarium better than I think any class. I have like a 0% chance of dying in it because smokescreen dodges the full map attack, assassinate targets the first target in the map that was spawned (the boss itself).
-Stronger buffs, can't beat 25% damage 50% crit rate and 50m damage cap raise. That is one of the best if not the best single buff in the game. No, it is not a hassle to cast.
-Phase dash is good

Dual Blade Pros:
-MUCH faster. Much easier to boss. I can pretty much do any boss... if I use boomerang stab only or if I use controlled assassinate. Bstep/stab is slow and weak but safe. I basically won't die in chaos von bon if I use it. However even though assassinate is much faster than it was, I still don't make the jump sometimes that I need for CVB. DB is fast and this is much better for bossing. You won't be forced into bad situations often and you can dodge more.
-MUCH better after a certain point of the game until you get to the far endgame. I think after a specific time they even beat NL but NL is boss and training easy mode for the adventurers. Do not pay attention to dpm charts. They are not an accurate representation of the thief adventurer classes or everyone would be a shadower. They beat shadowers for sure rather early. When you cap with assassinate last strike DB might be more favorable. This is around 700k range.

I enjoy shad more despite DB's speed. You'll see huge numbers, I have 155% boss and only 932k buffed and I can do 114 mill on the last hit of nate... Its cool

Ive done the switch before. If you want to play Shad make a new character.

I switched for two hour caps and say good bye. Too slow And you know you're most likely not going to get enough fund to do 110m a line on midnight carnival so db would be better for you at a higher funding plus even if you can caP with midnight carnival if you don't know how to dodge well you can still die from bosses or miss ur attack because of the delay on the skill.

I did it and i changed back shad just feels too slow for me after db

OK looks like i wot be making the switch 100B... no sir thats $500 nononono. Nonononono.

Trust me the switch is way to drastic, don't do it.

For bossing, a shadower is better at low funding (<300k), dual blade is better with medium and high funding (300k+) and shadower becomes better when u can hit 110m lines on midnight carnival.

For mobbing, a shadower is better with low funding, dual blade is better at medium funding, shadower is better at high and infinite funding

If your staying as a shadower then u should get a dragon khanjar (44 atk) if you can afford it. Clean is about 1.5 b.
P.S funded is like 100b.

I just switched and I regret it... Shad feels too slow and repetitive