[quote=bannanaspliz]Because Forvo is reliable. Not only that, but I AM Japanese, and I know what I'm talking about. There is not rule in Japanese that changes the spelling of the word from an "N" to an "M" unless you use ten-tens. Senpai is a Japanese word and the Romaji is SENPAI, no argument there. Also, "Spelling it Sempai in ROMAN CHARACTERS is just as accurate as spelling it Senpai in roman characters" makes no sense. Furthermore, the only reason people would ever spell "Senpai" as "Sempai" is an English translation. Since it is a JAPANESE word, the translation would be "higher-up" or "senior".
Also, if you were to emphasize "Senpai" you would pronounce each sound individually, and we, Japanese people, pronounce the "N". And yes I agree when saying it regularly, it sounds like an "M" sound, but that doesn't change the spelling and even then, a lot of people, foreign or native, slightly pronounce the "N", but because it comes before a "P", it SOUNDS like an "N". "if you pronounce it with an actual N sound it would sound weird in standard Japanese pronunciation" this is only if you enunciate the "N". Yes, a lot people pronounce it as "M" in casual speech, but the spelling remains unchanged.[/quote]
Yes but I am not referring to the standard romanization which is based on the actual spelling in kana. I was wrong to say Romaji but other than that...the rule is not a set rule fixed in stone. It just happens naturally when sounding the words out. But to get a authentic pronounciation, it shouldn't be ignored. If ignored...it could sound stiffed or extra stressed...or as you said...emphasized...which you wouldn't see in casual speech.
There are different ways to romanize japanese and one way is to take words like Senpai and changei to to sempai in order to help with pronouncing it more casually. Because there are many different systems, either spelling would be considered correct. Emphasizing the word, yes. N. I am speaking in terms of every day use, not emphasis. Of course this system is detrimental as it could cause problems when learning the actual kana system...so it is advised to refer to the standards when using romaji. So I get what you mean.
Also Forvo and sites like it, are reliable in the sense that it gives an idea as to how natives pronounce words and especially helpful with sounding out dialects. The only unreliable aspect is that sometimes non-natives give in their input and don't specify that they are not natives. Other than that, it is very useful with learning different phonetic systems. I sourced it as an example to what I mean. Not as "proof" or "evidence." Simple as an example to this rule. Well, I should have said unwritten rule. Sanpo, Anmari...
(also, the pronunciation of N depends on where it falls in the word or what word follows...and N is only one of the letters that have this. What about the voiceless vowels...or g which often has more of a ng sound depending on the word?...)
[quote=bannanaspliz]You do realize Romaji is NOT English, Romaji just uses English characters to represent Japanese Kana. The JAPANESE word "senpai" is spelled using the "N" character from Japanese. "N" is the only stand alone English consonant in the Japanese language, so no, spelling "senpai" with an "M" is completely incorrect. Romaji isn't based off phonetics, it's based of the Japanese Kana spelling, just in English characters.
Also, keep in mind that Japanese isn't English, so English rules don't apply to Japanese or any other foreign languages.[/quote]
I am well aware that romaji is not english. I never referred to it as such...But well.. I think you misunderstood. I mean the "M" sound when it comes before certain consonants is a JAPANESE language rule, meaning if you pronounce it with an actual N sound it would sound weird in standard Japanese pronunciation...it is due to the way you voice it. It comes out as more of an "M" sound as the "N" it is spelled with. Spelling it Sempai in ROMAN CHARACTERS is just as accurate as spelling it Senpai in roman characters. Also since we are playing the, "you do realize" game, You do realize that there are several systems to romanization of Japanese...and depending on the system, Sempai would be written versus Senpai... Again, this depends on the system. One spells it differently based on pronunciation rather than the spelling. And as such, I am speaking Phonetically. Senpai would be pronounced with an M sound because the n comes before "pa"...n before p = m. Pronounce it as it is spelled and you won't sound as convincing as a native japanese speaker... Of course dialect may differ regionally. Listen to any fluent speaker. It has more of an M sound than an N. That is the pronunciation rule. A JAPANESE pronunciation rule. Not English. Never was referring to English. But ty for TRYING to "enlighten" me. It is the thought that counts. http://www.forvo.com/word/senpai/
Again, I am not referring to ENGLISH. Or English pronounciation. I am referring to japanese phonetics and the multiple systems used in romanization... One is specifically used more frequently to teach beginners, making it easier for them to learn certain rules of the language regarding pronunciation specifically. Such as the rules involving the N character. This system may present problems as learning romaji first may hinder the learning process. So it is often argued whether or not using that system is detrimental to beginners more so than helpful.
The GM simply meant to do a nice action, then 1/2 of the maple community decided to be a-holes and chirp that GM for it's understandable mistake. Such Disrespect, Much Stupidity, So Not-Wow.
Because that is how Japanese works. It is spelled senpai but phonetically, it is pronounced with more of a M sound; Sempai. This is a phonetics rule when an "n" appears before a "p," "b," and "m" sound. So in Romaji, It could be spelled as either and it would still be correct. It is just the many people prefer the original spelling as it appears in Japanese while as the other spelling makes it easier to remember the rule.
6 Comments • Newest first
[quote=bannanaspliz]Because Forvo is reliable. Not only that, but I AM Japanese, and I know what I'm talking about. There is not rule in Japanese that changes the spelling of the word from an "N" to an "M" unless you use ten-tens. Senpai is a Japanese word and the Romaji is SENPAI, no argument there. Also, "Spelling it Sempai in ROMAN CHARACTERS is just as accurate as spelling it Senpai in roman characters" makes no sense. Furthermore, the only reason people would ever spell "Senpai" as "Sempai" is an English translation. Since it is a JAPANESE word, the translation would be "higher-up" or "senior".
Also, if you were to emphasize "Senpai" you would pronounce each sound individually, and we, Japanese people, pronounce the "N". And yes I agree when saying it regularly, it sounds like an "M" sound, but that doesn't change the spelling and even then, a lot of people, foreign or native, slightly pronounce the "N", but because it comes before a "P", it SOUNDS like an "N".
"if you pronounce it with an actual N sound it would sound weird in standard Japanese pronunciation" this is only if you enunciate the "N". Yes, a lot people pronounce it as "M" in casual speech, but the spelling remains unchanged.[/quote]
Yes but I am not referring to the standard romanization which is based on the actual spelling in kana. I was wrong to say Romaji but other than that...the rule is not a set rule fixed in stone. It just happens naturally when sounding the words out. But to get a authentic pronounciation, it shouldn't be ignored. If ignored...it could sound stiffed or extra stressed...or as you said...emphasized...which you wouldn't see in casual speech.
There are different ways to romanize japanese and one way is to take words like Senpai and changei to to sempai in order to help with pronouncing it more casually. Because there are many different systems, either spelling would be considered correct. Emphasizing the word, yes. N. I am speaking in terms of every day use, not emphasis. Of course this system is detrimental as it could cause problems when learning the actual kana system...so it is advised to refer to the standards when using romaji. So I get what you mean.
Also Forvo and sites like it, are reliable in the sense that it gives an idea as to how natives pronounce words and especially helpful with sounding out dialects. The only unreliable aspect is that sometimes non-natives give in their input and don't specify that they are not natives. Other than that, it is very useful with learning different phonetic systems. I sourced it as an example to what I mean. Not as "proof" or "evidence." Simple as an example to this rule. Well, I should have said unwritten rule. Sanpo, Anmari...
(also, the pronunciation of N depends on where it falls in the word or what word follows...and N is only one of the letters that have this. What about the voiceless vowels...or g which often has more of a ng sound depending on the word?...)
[quote=bannanaspliz]You do realize Romaji is NOT English, Romaji just uses English characters to represent Japanese Kana. The JAPANESE word "senpai" is spelled using the "N" character from Japanese. "N" is the only stand alone English consonant in the Japanese language, so no, spelling "senpai" with an "M" is completely incorrect. Romaji isn't based off phonetics, it's based of the Japanese Kana spelling, just in English characters.
Also, keep in mind that Japanese isn't English, so English rules don't apply to Japanese or any other foreign languages.[/quote]
I am well aware that romaji is not english. I never referred to it as such...But well.. I think you misunderstood. I mean the "M" sound when it comes before certain consonants is a JAPANESE language rule, meaning if you pronounce it with an actual N sound it would sound weird in standard Japanese pronunciation...it is due to the way you voice it. It comes out as more of an "M" sound as the "N" it is spelled with. Spelling it Sempai in ROMAN CHARACTERS is just as accurate as spelling it Senpai in roman characters. Also since we are playing the, "you do realize" game, You do realize that there are several systems to romanization of Japanese...and depending on the system, Sempai would be written versus Senpai... Again, this depends on the system. One spells it differently based on pronunciation rather than the spelling. And as such, I am speaking Phonetically. Senpai would be pronounced with an M sound because the n comes before "pa"...n before p = m. Pronounce it as it is spelled and you won't sound as convincing as a native japanese speaker... Of course dialect may differ regionally. Listen to any fluent speaker. It has more of an M sound than an N. That is the pronunciation rule. A JAPANESE pronunciation rule. Not English. Never was referring to English. But ty for TRYING to "enlighten" me. It is the thought that counts. http://www.forvo.com/word/senpai/
Again, I am not referring to ENGLISH. Or English pronounciation. I am referring to japanese phonetics and the multiple systems used in romanization... One is specifically used more frequently to teach beginners, making it easier for them to learn certain rules of the language regarding pronunciation specifically. Such as the rules involving the N character. This system may present problems as learning romaji first may hinder the learning process. So it is often argued whether or not using that system is detrimental to beginners more so than helpful.
thought this was a game.
thought this was for fun.
can't even enjoy a joke on valentine's day
The GM simply meant to do a nice action, then 1/2 of the maple community decided to be a-holes and chirp that GM for it's understandable mistake.
Such Disrespect, Much Stupidity, So Not-Wow.
[quote=Raiden]Senpai*?
Why the M?[/quote]
Because that is how Japanese works. It is spelled senpai but phonetically, it is pronounced with more of a M sound; Sempai. This is a phonetics rule when an "n" appears before a "p," "b," and "m" sound.
So in Romaji, It could be spelled as either and it would still be correct. It is just the many people prefer the original spelling as it appears in Japanese while as the other spelling makes it easier to remember the rule.
Senpai*?
Why the M?