General

[quote=cb000]Given the same number of %stat, %att, and other such things, your clean range should approximately match a 1h Hero's clean range, since the damage formula does not change between them. The major differences should come from skill differences. One problem for Heroes is that they scale badly with %boss because of the huge %damage they receive from their skills, meaning a DS should be able to use the same %boss more efficiently. There's also hits/s to consider, which might be floating around on SP or something. I'd imagine a DS gets greater hits/s.

But honestly, I think the DS has better bossing utility, and any difference at that level of funding might not be too significant.[/quote]

Hero has 0% total damage and 20% boss damage (hyper) from skills, since ACA and enrage is a damage multiplier, it is multiplicative with boss damage.
Hero scale terribly with critical damage, but scale normally with boss damage.
Hero damage= (base*skilldamage*(1+totaldamage%+bossdamage%)*ACA*Enrage*ChanceAttack + (crit*skilldamage*(1+totaldamage%+bossdamage%)*Chance Attack)

demon slayers hit harder and faster ,altho I do agree with the demon shield part not being tradeable -,- which they should ...
ive only been able to do hard gollux with 300k range with lumi help but its quite easy to fund ds if you know what you need

Thanks for your input guys. My plan for now is to build up my warrior equips(keeping them unequipped) and see if luck is on my side. Eventually I want to create an endgame DS, but if by the end of my funding period I only have the equips that are only capable of getting my Hero up there, I'll do hat first and use the profits from that to improve my equips for my DS. Main reason for this dilemma is simply because I have an end-game axe and I don't want to go through the trouble of perfecting another weapon or waiting to sell/trade a weapon that's not in demand in an already dead world. Luckily I don't mind sticking with either of these classes because they happen to be on my top 5.

@zeck96

Yep that's my point. Heroes have low ranges but high multipliers resulting in high damage output.

@chickenpoodl

Okay, so I'm trying to think at which point i should transfer my equips from a Hero to DS. When I reach the 2 mil clean(or slightly past it due to inferior emblem) range on my hero(without links), that would be about 3.2 mil buffed on a DS(60% tot dmg). With links and insult to injury that should make it 4 mil buffed range. With 90+pdr and more %boss, do you think that range could work for end-game? I know you said 5mil but I'm still holding out lol.

Play Hero, it seems low damage for what feels like forever. However, with 80k range i crit 800k on sh mobs but can finish dojo inn 30mins

@KnuckleBrown: I don't think so, although the range doesn't show the increase, my damage basically doubles when using it.

@KnuckleBrown: those numbers don't factor def yet. since its different for each target.
its tough to get a DS up there.
you're seriously better off putting that funding into a Kaiser, dark knight

Tho heroes have an easier time getting their range and dps higher I can say DS is more rewarding to fund
Easier to get max resistance, crit rate and overall just survivability not to mention a bind skill and a %drop skill
In the long run they have much better utility

[quote=chickenpoodl]in order to solo hell gollux for example, you'll need to have approximately 5m range at a bare minimum to be able to comfortably kill the jewel in time.
queen won't take as much due to the increased windows of opportunity for attacking as compared to pierre or vonbon.
magnus is more of an issue of practice rather than damage, but probably 4-4.5m range would be required.[/quote]

Man, that's [i]incredibly[/i] disappointing to hear...

[quote=chickenpoodl]to give you a rough idea of what you'll be doing, 2.2-2.5m range buffed, with 250%boss will yield:
15-19m crit dmg on non boss target, with impact
38-48m crit dmg on boss target, with impact

keep in mind that's on a target with zero DEF.
so those figures will be much higher than what you'll see in game due to end game bosses possessing high amounts of defense and factoring in physical resist.
numbers are also not accurate do to us not factoring in any specific amount of crit mastery.[/quote]

Are you factoring in pdr with this figure? If so then even more

@cb000

Hey man I think I derived the figures for endgame hero stats from your vids( I recognize avatar character) so thanks

2.2-2.5m buffed range with 250%boss and 85% ignore is not sufficient to solo end game bosses with a demonslayer.
rough guideline for hits per second for a demon slayer is 7 to 14 lines per second with impact, and 2 to 4 lines per second with dark meta.
as @cb000 said, the dmg formula and range based on EQUIPS ALONE should be identical provided you're using a 1H weapon for the hero.

in order to solo hell gollux for example, you'll need to have approximately 5m range at a bare minimum to be able to comfortably kill the jewel in time.
queen won't take as much due to the increased windows of opportunity for attacking as compared to pierre or vonbon.
magnus is more of an issue of practice rather than damage, but probably 4-4.5m range would be required.

to give you a rough idea of what you'll be doing, 2.2-2.5m range buffed, with 250%boss will yield:
15-19m crit dmg on non boss target, with impact
38-48m crit dmg on boss target, with impact

keep in mind that's on a target with zero DEF.
so those figures will be much higher than what you'll see in game due to end game bosses possessing high amounts of defense and factoring in physical resist.
numbers are also not accurate do to us not factoring in any specific amount of crit mastery.

Given the same number of %stat, %att, and other such things, your clean range should approximately match a 1h Hero's clean range, since the damage formula does not change between them. The major differences should come from skill differences. One problem for Heroes is that they scale badly with %boss because of the huge %damage they receive from their skills, meaning a DS should be able to use the same %boss more efficiently. There's also hits/s to consider, which might be floating around on SP or something. I'd imagine a DS gets greater hits/s.

But honestly, I think the DS has better bossing utility, and any difference at that level of funding might not be too significant.

@moelesterson

Thanks for the input! I can see how the emblem can pose a huge problem. If I go for 4 lines of attack( realistically 3 but I'll shoot for 4) I'll lose out on 12% att, which is indeed a loss that shouldn't be overlooked. However, considering that our natural/buffed range is higher than a hero would this 12% difference really allow for a hero's range to be higher? It seems Heroes were designed with buffs that are almost exclusively dedicated to buffing the range multiplier(skills) and not its actual range? Heroes have lower natural ranges, but it's multiplied above-averagely to produce a deceptively high damage output. So basically what I'm saying is that %att on a DS would increase its range more than on a Hero if my logic is correct.

Anyway, as long as I can confirm that with the equip/range requirements in my first post can allow me to do the end game bosses, I'll be able to decide. If I have time tomorrow maybe I'll actually crunch the numbers.

I can tolerate a lower dpm if it still allows me to solo the boss. Also I'm curious how you determined the higher dpm between the two? The recent buffs to DS increased their attacking speed. But I can't find any solid, updated frame data for either class to determine who has the better hits per second/minute.

This is one of the first class comparison questions that actually has a good reason for being asked.
Sadly tho the DS's range would be a lot lower as well as lower DPM. It's harder to raise a DS's range due to only being able to get a tier 2 emblem and a non tradable secondary

[quote=zeck96]Heroes also get a 60% total damage boost with enrage, Hero is better at 1v1, DS is better at mobbing and mobility.[/quote]

It doesn't show up in a hero's range if I recall correctly. It's calculated with skill% instead.

Heroes also get a 60% total damage boost with enrage, Hero is better at 1v1, DS is better at mobbing and mobility.