General

Marksman

When ultimate strafe is better than snipe

Here is some calculations if you need to identify when snipe is stronger than ul strafe or when ul strafe is stronger than snipe on bosses at least

[b]MM skill layouts and attacks used for comparison[/b]

Comparison:
snipe = 500k always server sided on bosses ignores any sort of PDR and def up increases
ultimate strafe = 200% per arrow, 6 arrows at once

MM crit boosting skills:
Marksman boost:+15% min crit dmg at lvl 30
critical shot:40% crit rate
5% natural crit rate for all classes
20% crit rate and 30% max crit dmg sharp eyes

[b]Party buffs and ignore PDR(physical damage reduction) skills:[/b]
skills that ignore PDRrate for marksman:
marksmanship ignore 20% PDR

skills that help crit rate/dmg increase for mm other than mm skills
thorns(db skill)

skills that decrease boss PDR:
threaten(page skill)

Calculations:
avg critical damage with new crit formulacriticals are multiplicative now with a critical range)
1.2x-1.5x damage by default for all classes

critical after mm skills added

rate:5% natural crit +40% critical shot +20% sharp eyes= 65%

critical range 1.2x-1.5x + marksman boost 15% min crit damage + 30% sharp eyes max crit damage = 1.35x-1.8x crit range

avg critical damage:
(1.35+1.8)/2 = 1.575
0.575*0.65 = 0.37375

So avg critical damage with only mm skills is 1.37x (rounded)

Now to find out how much range you will need for ultimate strafe to beat snipe in 1.vs.1 dps/dpm

I will only be using no PDR and 50% PDRrate today since I am lazy and also because the major bosses zak/ht/czak/cht all have 50% PDR except for PB which has 70% PDR

0% PDR:
avg arrow damage needed for ul strafe to beat snipe = 85k
85k/1.37(avg critical) = 62044
62044/2(because ul strafe is 200%) = 31022

50% PDR
50% PDR with marksmanship reduction = 50%*0.8(marksmanship take away 20% of the monster's PDR leaving 80%) = 40% PDR

85k/0.6(since 40% is deducted with the 40% PDRrate) = 141667
141667/1.37 = 103407
103407/2 = 51703

This means to beat snipe at a boss that has no PDR you will need a avg of 31022 range and for bosses like zak/ht you will need 51703 range to beat snipe

[b]When threaten apply:[/b]
threaten = ignore 30% of PDR
useless on 0% PDRrate so I won't calculate
On 50% PDRrate monsters
50%*0.7 = 0.35 = 35% PDRrate
and add marksmanship
0.35*0.8 = 0.28 = 28% PDRrate

85k/0.72 = 118056
118056/1.37 = 86172
86172/2 = 43086

meaning with threaten from a page you will need a avg range of 43086 to beat out snipe 1.vs.1 dps/dpm at zak/ht/etc

[b]When thorns apply:[/b]
critical range 1.35x-1.8x + thorns[20% crit chance(doesn't stack so it's on even terms with se) and 30% min critical damage] = 1.65x-1.8x
(1.65+1.8)/2 = 1.725
0.725*0.65 = 0.47125
meaning avg crit is now 1.47x

0% PDR:
avg arrow damage needed for ul strafe to beat snipe = 85k
85k/1.47(avg critical) = 57823
57823/2 = 28912

50% PDR:
85k/0.6 = 141667
141667/1.47 = 96372
96372/2 = 48186

meaning with thorns you will need an avg range of 28912 to beat out snipe with no PDR and an avg range of 48186 to beat out snipe with 50% PDR bosses

[b]When both threaten and thorns apply:[/b]
on 0% it still makes no difference

28% PDR with threaten and marksmanship for 50% PDR bosses

85k/0.72 = 118056
118056/1.47 = 80310
80310/2 = 40155

meaning with threaten and thorns you will need avg of 40155 range to beat snipe at 50% PDR bosses

Summary:
No PDR:
31022+ avg range to beat snipe on no PDR bosses
51703+ avg range to beat snipe on 50% PDR bosses
43086+ avg range to beat snipe on 50% PDR bosses with threaten on them
28912+ avg range to beat snipe on no PDR bosses with thorns
48186+ avg range to beat snipe on 50% PDR bosses with thorns
40155+ avg range to beat snipe on 50% PDR bosses with thorns and threaten

As for things such as boss 30% and total damage % it's much easier that you can do it on your own easily, simply use the avg ranges and divide them, for example.
boss damage 30%:
To find out how much range you will need with only solo buffs simply do this
31022/1.3 = 23863 meaning you will only need 23863+ avg range to beat snipe on a no PDR boss with boss 30% dmg on your weapon

The only thing that I didn't list yet is things like lvl 22 critical shot(44% crit) and lvl 32 se(21% crit chance and 32% crit damage), lvl 22 critical shot requires +2 skill helm and lvl 32 se requires +2 skill helm or combat order, either way if you want to know what's the range required with those just ask me in this thread later. But basically the changes isn't going to be anywhere near significant at all

You can also ask what range you need with different critical rates such as boosts with potential crit and crit rings.

December 8, 2010

7 Comments • Newest first

leannesama

[quote=ChibiCross]least we won't have to worry about this when snipe is % based right?[/quote]

right

Reply December 9, 2010
leannesama

[quote=ScrambledEgg]So basically we're stressing the importance of snipe on bosses here?

Also, if it's not too much trouble, can you account for around a 7 second cooldown lag for snipe?[/quote]

The cooldown doesn't even matter, This thread is to show what range you will need in different situations to beat snipe in 1.vs.1 dps/dpm, meaning if you have above the avg range listed above then snipe is useless unless the boss has cancel weapon attack up

Reply December 8, 2010
Flamesnation

Good thing I have more than 23k range eh?

Reply December 8, 2010
ScrambledEgg

So basically we're stressing the importance of snipe on bosses here?

Also, if it's not too much trouble, can you account for around a 7 second cooldown lag for snipe?

Reply December 8, 2010 - edited
leannesama

[quote=homeworksucks]what's the crit rate and crit range with lvl 32 se/thorns/crit shot?[/quote]

65% rate and 1.65x-1.8x crit range(original) > 70% and 1.67x-1.82x crit range with lvl 22 crit, lvl 32 se+lvl 32 thorns.

Reply December 8, 2010 - edited
leannesama

[quote=ScrambledEgg]One thing; does snipe hit 1m or 500k? Is the 1m damage on GMS real or is it just a typo and we actually hit 500k?[/quote]

1 mil on normal monsters, 500k on bosses

Reply December 8, 2010 - edited
ScrambledEgg

One thing; does snipe hit 1m or 500k? Is the 1m damage on GMS real or is it just a typo and we actually hit 500k?

Reply December 8, 2010 - edited