General

@bluebomber24: the thing is i went in game just recently and my installation was triggering afa until i began to use hurricane, from what i can tell it would seem that hurricane is for some reason cancelling out arrow blasters ability to activate final attack in it's installation form. ill pass this on to Artasi.

[quote=bluebomber24]@Rachelll: What I mean is there is no sure proof that when the player is attacking a target the installation-AFA is still active.[/quote]

You'd have to record and go frame by frame.

@Rachelll: What I mean is there is no sure proof that when the player is attacking a target the installation-AFA is still active.

@bluebomber24:

It is triggering AFA but the h/s does not correspond to the one on paper (time discrepancies at Dorothy). There's a few things "wrong" about AFA w/ turret that is hard to describe (range variation is one of them)

Edit:
And
" and we all know that armor break in general is glitched "
We actually don't know if it's glitched or not since it would actually be quite "broken" and "overpowered" if it works as described. Of course, there is an animation glitch with AB regardless.

[quote=bumbertyr]i do in fact use basil, what i can tell you so far about arrow blaster is that it's treated as an extension of yourself not a separate entity, as such it applies on hit effects such as the quiver arrows and final attack as well as armor break. So far it would appear [b]AFA[/b] poison and drain arrows are being properly applied whilst magic arrows are not, and we all know that armor break in general is glitched (which i intend to try and get fixed.). i'll try to get more information but this is what i have right now :o.[/quote]

That bold is regarding installation triggering AFA. From people like @Rachelll and @mmbryan it would appear that installation is not triggering AFA. So questions that should be asked is

1) Is the installation supposed to trigger AFA?
2) If it does trigger is it bugged.
3) If it does trigger how does it work, because it only shows up 100pix or so from the player usually, which is wierd.

Other stuff was covered in Elufu's above post.

Glad your on basil. Once the council or w/e gets up and running, you should post a thread asking for things BMs are interested in.

[quote=bumbertyr]i do in fact use basil, what i can tell you so far about arrow blaster is that it's treated as an extension of yourself not a separate entity, as such it applies on hit effects such as the quiver arrows and final attack as well as armor break. So far it would appear AFA poison and drain arrows are being properly applied whilst magic arrows are not, and we all know that armor break in general is glitched (which i intend to try and get fixed.). i'll try to get more information but this is what i have right now :o.[/quote]

Turret doesn't trigger magic arrows in kms.

i do in fact use basil, what i can tell you so far about arrow blaster is that it's treated as an extension of yourself not a separate entity, as such it applies on hit effects such as the quiver arrows and final attack as well as armor break. So far it would appear AFA poison and drain arrows are being properly applied whilst magic arrows are not, and we all know that armor break in general is glitched (which i intend to try and get fixed.). i'll try to get more information but this is what i have right now :o.

@twopointonefour: Doesn't need to be the BM Councillor. Can be any of them if they request Nexon for clarity on skill description and mechanics in general.
[edit: emailed their gmail account, up to them to find out now -back to loitering-]

Subject: Attn: Bowmaster and Wild Hunter Maple Leaf Council Representative
To: mapleleafcouncil @ gmail.com

Re: 'Arrow Blaster' (Turret) and 'Another Bite' skill mechanic clarification

I refer you to the following thread post I have made in relation to the
ambiguity of the subject skills:
http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/2878659/2/#46426538

Reiterating the post, I question the lack of clarity in relation to skill
description and mechanics of some skills in MapleStory. While most skill
functions are simple to understand and can be identified through
'extractions', some skills are left in question on how they are intended to
function.

In particular, I would like to know the following:
- Is the key-downed 'Arrow Blaster' (commonly known as Turret) intended to
trigger Advanced Final Attack(AFA)? If so, what are the trigger conditions? *If
AFA is to trigger I would also like to bring attention to a possible bug
that is likely to be limiting the damage output of Bowmasters.*

- Is there a trigger condition for 'Another Bite'? The skill description
implies a 100% activation rate, is this the case?

If you could represent the Maple Community to probe Nexon to enlighten the
design intentions of these skills, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Kind regards,

Elufu

[quote=bluebomber24]@Elufu: I agree with everything stated. Fine until further info such as council says otherwise.[/quote]

I don't think our council member even uses basil.

@Elufu: I agree with everything stated. Fine until further info such as council says otherwise.

@bluebomber24: Probably super late to this discussion but since someone chucked me a [url=http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/2881675/1/#46416565]question[/url] .. thought I'd revise the BM Turret toggle to show the differences between Turret AFA, Turret no AFA and no Turret.

In summary, excluding setting up delays:
1 WH (Another Bite trigger rate: 100%) - 43.08 [As far as I'm concerned this is not the case, unless someone can prove otherwise**]
2 BM (Turret w/AFA) - 41.67
3 BM (Turret no AFA) - 35.83
4 WH (HAU) - 32.04 [Is using a conservative 2.65 stacks on average and can be higher than this]
5 Merc - 29.17
6 WH kmst (HAU) - 29.04
7 WH (No HAU) - 28.71
8 BM (No Turret) - 27.5

Looking at point 3 and 4 and taking into consideration of Bryan's [url=http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/2878659/1/#46381720]comment[/url], I'm afraid Turret AFA (or AFA in general) is probably not working as intended or is simply not triggering for reasons you have explained.

From his comments I deduce an effective 34hits/s by Bryan [b]without AFA[/b] on turret. If we consider set-up times.. BMs will definitely have a lower hits/s (Turret + Quiver) than WH (HAU) if Turret AFA is not triggering. However if this is sufficient to make the clearing time differences, I do not know.

**Side note: If Another Bite is 100% trigger then a capping WH would do 25% more damage (25% faster clear times) than a 40m turret BM in theory. [b]Someone definitely needs to confirm with Nexon the mechanics behind Turret and Another Bite.[/b]

[quote=NeckChops] I know right and yet we still get bowmasters in denial lol no offence intended That's why I hate so called dps/hps/dpm data and u look at a side by side video and it renders all the statistics irrelevant or completely wrong![/quote]

Lol. No denial here. I don't even play maple to care. The only thing I care about is the "why?". Because the data should be comparable to the videos, in spite what you think. While data and etc is not perfect, a HUGE gap should not exist between it and reality. Thus, that means something is going on that people are unaware of. Be it a glitch, that boss, or that's just how it is. Heck, when I found how WH hits/s actually worked I immediately pointed out the errors in the dps calculator thread which was understating WH actual output. And I will [b]DEFINITELY[/b] point out anything that would potentially nerf BM or any class by a considerable margin in the dps calculator. I care more about being right and the integrity of available information than a class I don't play.

In summary, its fine to have WH pride, but to say statistics/data is "irrelevant or completely wrong" is just straight foolish in regards to this game.

@LimsaLominsa

Yea, when I was thinking about the iframes, I was struggling to see how that would matter to a significant extent, even if Doro does it an insane amount of times. Which is why imo, my focus is more on the existence Turret-AFA.

@LimsaLominsa I know right and yet we still get bowmasters in denial lol no offence intended That's why I hate so called dps/hps/dpm data and u look at a side by side video and it renders all the statistics irrelevant or completely wrong!

WH seems faster than literally almost every class, if not all of them from what I've seen, on the vast majority of bosses outside of dojo. Even if you factor out magic arrows completely and assume 40m turret arrows, Bryan would have still been doing like 33+ hits/s on Dorothy assuming AFA works with turret. And he is still slower on a deathless run than Misusing by a decent margin? What?

@Rachelll: TBH, I am going to have to sit and watch a bunch of Dorothy videos when I get the chance because I know nothing about that boss. So I can't say much atm.

If your standing in between Turret and the purple area, then yes, theoretically that is close enough for Turret-AFA to be trigger....if it triggers. Where you currently are standing is too far for sure though.

Elaborate what you mean regarding WA.

Since I last played, Magic Arrows damage is not registered automatically so any shift can make the damage potentially loss. Its really a matter of how. For iframes....it depends on wheter Dorothy is invincible or intangible.

If Doro becomes invincible and takes the Magic Arrows hits but registers no damage, that's just how it is, Magic Arrow being too slow occasionally.

If she is becoming intangible, Magic Arrows should attempt to register a new target. For example, if you or another player kill a mob that Magic Arrow was going to hit, Magic Arrow will try to hit the next closest mob. At times it will literally do a U-Turn if the new target is behind or above it. So either the Magic Arrows should still attempt to hit her after the intangible frame OR Magic Arrow attempts to register a new target when Doro is still in intangible and thus Magic Arrow just flys off the map since it failed to find a new target. Again, I have to look at Doro videos when I get the chance to see how her iframes are among other things.

@bluebomber24: The issue with standing directly in front of her is that there's a "magnus" region (damage reduced to 10%). Typically, we stand right outside that region ([url=http://www.basilmarket.com/screen/Maplestory-BasilMarket-Screen-231728-1.jpg]a little right of the turret before the purple region[/url]

I should probably note that Dorothy has frequent iframes so would that render some AFA/magic arrow as misses? (Also noticed that on WA)

@Rachelll: Lovely. That scenario can actually confirm/decofirm something. BMs are [b]supposed[/b] to get thier max hits (Turret-AFA) if they are really close to the enemy. the enemy has to be about 100pix or so in front of you. Its either that or Turret-AFA is bugged or doesn't exist. KMS patch notes and the game made it seem like it exists at all times, but it was never clear and direct.

Also be aware that AFA and Magic Arrows [b]are not[/b] instantaeous attacks and at this time there is not enough information to account for that. Another Bite is a straight debuff that instantly adds another line. To make another point, MMs might potentially out-dpm WA at cap purely because Trifiling Whim is a pretty slow afa skill. Not 100% sure but I believe Magic Arrows attribute to hit/s more the closer you are since it has less distance to travel.

For anything else I would have to see the videos to see if they are highly comparable.

edit: basically if you have a dorothy run to spare. Stand directly in front of her as much as possible and see if you get different results.

[quote=Rachelll]With dorothy being quite literally a punching bag, shouldn't a BM be able to clear her faster than a WH when they're both capping (according to your #s)? MMbryan was hitting essentially all caps with 0 deaths and still ended up minutes behind Misusing. Even with magic arrows fully locked in the second half, the difference in time is pretty significant (Platter/quiver delay wouldn't justify the difference).[/quote]

Was going to comment exactly this

My deathless kill (~15 minutes) was still 2-3 minutes slower than Matt's kill, and I cap on Dorothy with hurricane and ~42m+ with platter.

[quote=bluebomber24]Max damage cap or Max range cap; those are two different things.

For max damage cap; BM is around 40 hits/s and WH is around 30 hits/s[/quote]

With dorothy being quite literally a punching bag, shouldn't a BM be able to clear her faster than a WH when they're both capping (according to your #s)? MMbryan was hitting essentially all caps with 0 deaths and still ended up minutes behind Misusing. Even with magic arrows fully locked in the second half, the difference in time is pretty significant (Platter/quiver delay wouldn't justify the difference).

[quote=NeckChops]The stats say one thing.... the actual game scenario says other wise^^^ [/quote]

Those videos weren't super great to compare as the WH did more cap damage than the BM; the wh damage never dropped below 55m while the BMs never boosted thier hits to 55m AND thier hits dropped to 30m and 20m in both videos. Also, damage and high hit/s does not mean a class will kill certain bosses faster than another.

The stats say one thing.... the actual game scenario says other wise^^^

Max damage cap or Max range cap; those are two different things.

For max damage cap; BM is around 40 hits/s and WH is around 30 hits/s

I compare based on in game scenarios

Bow master CV :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPYWWSz1z_Y
Wild Hunter CV :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4zwnJbF0SY

Bow Master Hellux :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Azctj7XkJo
Wild Hunter Hellux :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy5IJRYtkoU