General

@iVege: I was explaining the difference. The person that had did those numbers had over 90 multiplicative PDR for the classes and on Vellum. If a BM ignores 100% of Vellums pdr, a % of the BMs DPM will be multiplied by 4 due to Vellum having 300% pdr; thus increasing the BMs DPM considerably.

Keep in mind I am a skeptic of Armor Breaks true impact unglitched and usually choose to leave that option untoggled to be conservative. However, I wasn't the one playing with the calculator as I definitely wouldn't give the classes a 90 multiplicative. All I did was recite the results of whoever was messing with it.

[quote=bluebomber24]What would happen if both classes unrealistically ignore over 90% of Vellum pdr. BMs can actually see increased damage instead of reduced depending on the player AND mobs pdr.[/quote]

i was more noting the absurdity of the number difference, but okay.

@iVege: What would happen if both classes unrealistically ignore over 90% of Vellum pdr. BMs can actually see increased damage instead of reduced depending on the player AND mobs pdr.

[quote=bluebomber24]MM: 21,967% to 23,371%
BM: 36,379% to 39,765%[/quote]

what the hell is this

[quote=MasonGrayson]@Elufu Oh, I'm not considering changing because I crave damage or hate my class; I've played a MM for years. I'm just flat out bored of the game and am considering a change and with the free job change coin, I thought changing to a BM might spice things up a bit and allow me to actually [b]do[/b] something in-game. I'm just conflicted because I just don't have enough mesos to change back right away if I just 100% dislike the class off the bat haha. [/quote]

BMs are glitched atm and are missing alot of DPM atm, just to let you know.

@bluebomber24: I think you have and my pleasure.

@QuantumLegend: This is JT's Chart: http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=50733 and my previous quote to you listed the thread with the recalcs and also includes discussions that can give you insights on some of the flaws that the JT chart has.

Elufu's chart is free to play with, copy and etc, so you can test MULTIPLE scenarios and make comparisons.

edit: What? Now I am Mr. Career Counselor now >.< Have I ever told you guys I hate you?

@MasonGrayson: Don't let Mr. Bowmaster convince you into anything. It's best if you make that decision yourself(when you can) as motivation is a non-quantitative factor for DPS calculation that does affect damage efficiency. If you like your class you're more likely to be studious about your own class and how you can improve your playing style.

The differences between the archer class-type is so little compared to an 'OP' class, that these little things that you can't make into numbers do make a difference.

[quote=bluebomber24]@MasonGrayson: No, I havn't. I am just correcting people who keep saying inaccurate things.

I have not said BMs>MM in mobbing and don't think so.
I have not said BMs>MM in bossing as that's debatable, although I do have my opinion.
I have never made a thread addressing this issue since the release of 4th job in GMS.
I have gone on record more than once saying BM is the least likely Archer class I would recommend to someone unbiasly.

What I have said is that BMs outdamage MMs in 1v1. That's just math that for whatever reason people have a difficult time seeing. As you can see from the above posts who are referencing a chart that is outdated and relying on a person that other Archer players have already acknowledge that some fo the Archer calculations he did isn't exactly accurate. Don't mistake correction for cramming.[/quote]

Can we have the link to said updated chart or quotation on said calculations?

@MasonGrayson: No, I havn't. I am just correcting people who keep saying inaccurate things.

I have not said BMs>MM in mobbing and don't think so.
I have not said BMs>MM in bossing as that's debatable, although I do have my opinion.
I have never made a thread addressing this issue since the release of 4th job in GMS.
I have gone on record more than once saying BM is the least likely Archer class I would recommend to someone unbiasly.

What I have said is that BMs outdamage MMs in 1v1. That's just math that for whatever reason people have a difficult time seeing. As you can see from the above posts who are referencing a chart that is outdated and relying on a person that actual Archer players have acknowledge that he didn't get the Archer DPM correct in an accurate manner. Don't mistake correction for cramming.

http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/2701351/2

Here is a dpm chart

Marksman outdamage bowmaster always

if you're playing a class just to show everyone the "dps" and how much better it is then you're wrong

@akibari: Whoever has modified the calcs atm has

MM: 21,967% to 23,371%
BM: 36,379% to 39,765%

Making all extra toggles inactive (Armor Break, Preparation, and Speed Infusion) which benefits the MM more, the BM still outdpms the MM with the current Boss and PDR sources in that chart.

[quote=bluebomber24]@QuantumLegend

No. At ideal conditions, MM is [b]never[/b] stronger than a BM irregardless of how far the MM is. They are not "too far" apart, but they definitely aren't close either.

http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/2782310 for calculations

Keep in mind you [b]have[/b] to include Boss and PDR scaling which realistically exists for everyone. If you don't include those variables most Archers will compete or beat the Bowmaster because practically all other Archers have high Total% and/or PDR effects as a starting base. BMs get the largest boosts from outside Boss and PDR than any other archer, expecially if Armor Break is active. Be aware that even with the OP Armor Break skill inactive, a BM will outdpm MMfar once a certain PDR and Boss level is reached by both classes.[/quote]

the MM % dps is higher then BM % dps in the calculations o-o

Yawn. Too many experts in this field.

@QuantumLegend

No. At ideal conditions, MM is [b]never[/b] stronger than a BM irregardless of how far the MM is. They are not "too far" apart, but they definitely aren't close either.

http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/2782310 for calculations

Keep in mind you [b]have[/b] to include Boss and PDR scaling which realistically exists for everyone. If you don't include those variables most Archers will compete or beat the Bowmaster because practically all other Archers have high Total% and/or PDR effects as a starting base. BMs get the largest boosts from outside Boss and PDR than any other archer, expecially if Armor Break is active. Be aware that even with the OP Armor Break skill inactive, a BM will outdpm MMfar once a certain PDR and Boss level is reached by both classes.

[quote=QuantumLegend]@Dannisaur NCD Snipe is at 155 now.[/quote]

Ooh, can we call it NCDS from now on? Sounds cool.

@Dannisaur NCD Snipe is at 155 now.

I am curious about dps comparisons, though I know they are not too far apart in damage.
I think MMs are quite stronger at the moment just because BMs have been glitched forever. This seems to hold from what I've read around and seen in game.

At ideal conditions for both classes (turret and everything working for BMs, and MM at max distance) MMs are stronger but BMs' arrow turret seems very beneficial at certain bosses like Gollux. Also MMs have to maintain their distance, but I suppose that usually isn't too much of an issue.

Now I don't have exact numbers or testing of what I've said but from approximate calculations and what I've generally seen it seems about accurate. If anyone knew more specifics on this that'd be great

[quote=Dannnisaur]
Damage: Bowmasters, until Marksmen get to 195 for their spammable Snipe hyper skill.
[/quote]

They get this at 155.

Bossing: Depends
Training: Depends
Survivability: Depends
Mobility: Bowmaster (marginally)
Gameplay: Depends
Damage: Depends

Yup.