General

[quote=dwabado]guys just look at ur damage range after using soul arrow with 4 attack arrows it shouldnt be that hard lmao[/quote]

Your damage range shows a damage increase but your damage doesn't actually go up, so it is that hard.

[quote=zezazi]Seriously I don't understand all this game mechanic language nor can I be bothered to try and understand it.

Can someone (trust-able) summarise if they stack or not?[/quote]

Attack arrows do not stack with Soul Arrow.

[quote=ViperNose]This^[/quote]

Read the thread lol.

@Tacos4Takkun: Well I did not know that anyone had provided proof that you can kill with misses. Taking the TS' screenshots plus the fact that I have not seen these alleged screenshots that you're talking about, I just figured you were being contrarian with no basis.

That being said, it's a simple calculation. If we just find out the damage range of the people who provided screenshots in this thread without the arrows in their inventory, factor in the PDrate, and then take a look at the numbers. I don't know why you make it sound like we've only scratched the surface of this issue, when it's fairly clear that it's pretty simple to figure out.

[quote=SwitcherUpper]@yellowc : Could you do a test with just attack arrows and no soul arrow, to see how that stacks up as well? I would like to see how much it would add on average, but have no time for a test myself.

As far as the whole missing killing a monster thing, I heard that was related to mastery and lower level characters. As in.. it happened to people in 1st/2nd job who hadn't maxed mastery yet. I have seen it happen on my new hunter, but I haven't had that on my MM when I was training, which leads me to believe that is the case.

And for soul arrow and attack arrows stacking, I don't believe it SHOULD work, which is why I think it doesn't. Soul arrow is like an unlimited supply of normal arrows, and doesn't rely on anything you have in your inventory. The range boost is because you have them in your inventory, regardless of whether or not you are using them.[/quote]

This is correct. On my Hermit and Ranger the damage seems to be spot-on. But If you make a new character you can clearly see that the damage you do doesnt match up with the damage it shows. I had that problem when I made my Wind Archer in Zenith. I never hit any misses, but I would hit 100+ over a monster's hp and it wouldn't die and it's HP bar would only go down halfway. As I put more points in Mastery, I started to see the problem less and less until I didnt see it anymore when maxed.
I've actually gotten to the point that I don't even pay attention to my damage until I get Mastery maxed if I make a new character.

[quote=GoPens]No to me it makes sense that it cuts down a percent of the monsters actual defense not the PDR. So since the snail has no defense then there is nothing markmenship can do.[/quote]

snails has 10% PDR http://www.south perry.net/showthread.php?t=34232

there is no actual defence the new formula is literally replacing def with PDR

[quote=Fiel]How Player Damage Works

Relevant Calculator:
None yet

Relevant Formulas:
Multiplier * (4 * main stat + secondary stat) * (Attack / 100)
It is currently believed that mob WDEF does not apply to damage calculations anymore. Only PDRate/MDRate matter.

Procedure:
If you don't want to see any of the specifics for calculations, just jump to the third spoiler.[/quote]

@Kevvl: i blame it on zerk having us always on the edge (will i overpot if i do it now?) but thanks for looking at it, guess i'll go edit my topic now

[quote=darkspawn980]i come here to see how is the archer forum doing after BB, seems that you all are doing well, shame on the attk arrows, still not fixed it seems.

hey kevvl, mind if i ask a favor? i am confident in my math, but a different set of eyes is always useful, think you can give us a hand at the DrK forums? we are trying to work out wether sacrifice ignores or not Boss physical defense, and wether boss30% on an item works, so far we have yes and yes, but i'd like you to take a quick look at it if possible (we need a knowledgeable DrK mod, you archers, so lucky)

EDIT: Oh, to not stay completely offtopic, TS, you ight want to add on your post that the info isn't true now that it has been proven, if i had only read the first post, i would have thought it did stack[/quote]

Looks good to me, I don't think I was really necessary

The Warriors have always been epic at math, more so than us Bowmen. Kinda necessary considering how much more math Warriors require.

[quote=quixlvr2]Still hold at least one set if you have total damage % on your bow[/quote]

Oh speaking of which. How does attack arrow effects work with something like attack%? o.O

[quote=Kevvl]Snails (all regular monsters, actually) reduce your damage by exactly 10%.

With a range of 2,625, you shouldn't be able to do less than 2,362.

Which, ironically, just confirmed that it doesn't stack since you did 2,321. Can you screenshot that?[/quote]

there's a 10% dmg reduction for every monster now? whaat?
i didn't know that D:

@plain88: Oh, bummer. I just read a few comments. Oh well, it would be unfair if they could stack.

[quote=Tacos4Takkun]@mewmeister: At the same time it doesn't help that there's a fairly well known glitch where the damage you see isn't the damage you deal; ever notice that you can kill with a miss? To actually get anything done would require looking at the coding or somehow documenting kills on a known hp creature that would take into account over kill. This thread is amazingly reliant on guessing and unrelated screenies.[/quote]

Funnily enough, the OP's original post shows that client-sided and server-sided damage now matches up

hurr durr

[quote=hirrho]Thanks dude! This will help alot. I didn't know about this but always wondered it.[/quote]

According to the rest of the posts and screenshots attack arrows and soul arrow don't stack.

i come here to see how is the archer forum doing after BB, seems that you all are doing well, shame on the attk arrows, still not fixed it seems.

hey kevvl, mind if i ask a favor? i am confident in my math, but a different set of eyes is always useful, think you can give us a hand at the DrK forums? we are trying to work out wether sacrifice ignores or not Boss physical defense, and wether boss30% on an item works, so far we have yes and yes, but i'd like you to take a quick look at it if possible (we need a knowledgeable DrK mod, you archers, so lucky)

EDIT: Oh, to not stay completely offtopic, TS, you ight want to add on your post that the info isn't true now that it has been proven, if i had only read the first post, i would have thought it did stack

[quote=yellowc][url=http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/4622/maple0005p.jpg]Extreme case is extreme.[/url][/quote]

Lol Awesome. xD

This was a triumph.

I go to bed and wake up to 3 people posting screenshots that definitively debunk the myth.

This is like Christmas minus the disappointment.

Thanks dude! This will help alot. I didn't know about this but always wondered it.

Changed your title if that's OK. I think we've busted this thoroughly.

[quote=bloodyarrow]x.x?
why dont you juse have arrows on and use soularrow and see if your range decreases?[/quote]
Because that's not how the game works. It's a craft - of the mind!

Below your Min. range works too. Thanks!

Alright, I have no idea why Karnage can't get that then. O_O

[quote=KaRnAgE926]you didnt answer my question kevvl, Im using regular buffs and non-atk arrows on snail's in lith same location and I can't hit below my min-range.[/quote]
I didn't answer it because I can't. O_O

Unless you've got Marksmanship, which may or may not affect it. Also, weapons which ignore PDRate. That might actually be it, we might be able to confirm that Marksmanship takes off PDRate by a straight 20% instead of multiplying it.

Can you take off all gear except a bow and try hitting somewhere within 8% of your max range? I'd need to see a screenshot of:

Your damage range.
Your equips window with an unpotential'd bow equipped.
Your level of Marksmanship.
You hitting within 8% of your max range on a snail.

[quote=Kevvl]As always, the myth is busted. Attack arrows don't stack.[/quote]

you didnt answer my question kevvl, Im using regular buffs and non-atk arrows on snail's in lith same location and I can't hit below my min-range.

[quote=tgamej]I see this is like a 'Chicken first or Egg first' debate. But can some one in charge here tell me the final conclusion? I recalled last time I face this issue was a year ago, and I don't think extra slot for attack arrow is necessary.[/quote]
As always, the myth is busted. Attack arrows don't stack.

I see this is like a 'Chicken first or Egg first' debate. But can some one in charge here tell me the final conclusion? I recalled last time I face this issue was a year ago, and I don't think extra slot for attack arrow is necessary.

[quote=Kevvl]Higher range, but you shouldn't hit higher damage -- that'd be a placebo effect. It's the same as it was before. Originally, you'd get a higher damage range with attack arrows but not deal anything higher. The Server:Client side issues came up in a recent patch, hence why your proof wasn't exactly viable. Now we're back to the way things were: Higher range, but not higher damage dealt.[/quote]

I seem to be doing the same test with self buffs and regular arrows and not atk arrows, but I cant seem to hit below my min range o.O.

so overall if you want to deal higher damage within your range you should get attack arrows?

Higher range, but you shouldn't hit higher damage -- that'd be a placebo effect. It's the same as it was before. Originally, you'd get a higher damage range with attack arrows but not deal anything higher. The Server:Client side issues came up in a recent patch, hence why your proof wasn't exactly viable. Now we're back to the way things were: Higher range, but not higher damage dealt.

[quote=Kevvl]Perfect! Myth busted.[/quote]

So it doesn't stack? But how come I hit higher damage and have a higher range with attack arrows?

Perfect! Myth busted.

@LordofSky: Kevvl wasn't trying to make anyone look dumb. And if you look at the thread, I was the one who originally pointed out how the TS' screenshots don't actually prove anything.

That being said, no one said karnage was an idiot and I don't think karnage thought that it was implied either way.

Who are you fighting?

edit: And before you go "mod fanboi/suckup/whatever," if you've spent any amount of time on basil, you'd know that if anything, the opposite is true...

I'm trying no such thing, and I don't thing Karnage feels like I am. I'm just trying to get the facts here with some actual tests. Again, I'm gonna to hafta warn you about that language. Don't make me hafta warn you again.

[url=http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/7436/maple0004e.jpg]pIC 1 LAWL AWL ajfesvh[/url]
[url=http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/7792/maple0005c.jpg]PIC 2 LOOK AT THIS PIC LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL DEXLESS SIN![/url]

You gotta put the url's after the ='s
So do I fail at linking? LOL someone teach meh?

@KaRnAgE926 I was talking about the bigheaded mod who's trying to make you look like an idiot.

[quote=LordofSky]Arrows do stack with Soularrow now, the damage is finaly server based.

Please try to come up with more excuses to discredit people who try to work hard in order to prove something is real when they do in fact have proof.[/quote]

how am I discrediting anyone? o.O I'm trying get facts myself, no need to be anal.

Edit: nvm I thought u were talking to me? -scratches head- i r confuzzled.

GoPens, that's not [i]quite[/i] adequate. Your screenshot needs to show your damage on a snail, your damage range, and your inventory with arrows highlighted. One screenshot with all that works.

[quote=LordofSky]Arrows do stack with Soularrow now, the damage is finaly server based, and to the almighty jerk kevvl, snails don't apply to the PDrates, as there are charts in some of Fiel's posts that shows the statistics of the mob's PDrates.

Please try to come up with more excuses to discredit people who try to work hard in order to prove something is real when they do in fact have proof.[/quote]
No need to be so harsh. Your post is borderline suspendable, you might wanna tone it down in the future.

Now then, I'd like you to explain a few things for me.

1) If PDRate doesn't apply to snails, then how come GoPens did less damage than his damage range without arrows?
2) If PDRate doesn't apply to snails, then explain this post by Fiel. www.south perry.net/showthread.php?t=28250&p=471582&viewfull=1#post471582

[quote=KaRnAgE926]I'm not being rude at all, I'm asking for help lol, cause if I'm wrong then I know not to use up a USE inventory space xD. Then again it wouldn't make sense to release 9 atk arrows either for the Chaos Patch =P.[/quote]

Arrows do stack with Soularrow now, the damage is finaly server based.

Please try to come up with more excuses to discredit people who try to work hard in order to prove something is real when they do in fact have proof.

[quote=GoPens]well guys Im sorry.. I would really love to ss but I cant.. Im on a macbook pro.. and it has no scroll lock key... so yeah.... epic failz. If you will take my word for it then I did hit below my damage range of 2362 though. Is there anyway to change the screenshot key? f7[/quote]

If you're using bootcamp windows mode, you can use the on screen keyboard (shows you how to do that [url=http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090306142827AAQAv2U]here.[/url])

@Kevvl: well I'm off to bed then. Thanks for the help though!

[quote=NineCrimes]It's funny that post-BB, this issue looks like it's going to be solved in <2 pages on basil, when pre-BB stirred up so much trouble.[/quote]
Yeah. Last time took at least 7 pages.

[quote=blimko]Is this thread worth staying up for? I think so. Hurry please xD

edit: do the arrows stack or not? Sorry if i misread something.[/quote]

From the looks of it, they don't. Technically we need a screenshot to prove it, but I wouldn't fill your inventory with arrows if I were you

It's funny that post-BB, this issue looks like it's going to be solved in <2 pages on basil, when pre-BB stirred up so much trouble.

Is this thread worth staying up for? I think so. Hurry please xD

edit: do the arrows stack or not? Sorry if i misread something.

[quote=NineCrimes]ROFL.

This post literally made my day and my day hasn't even started.[/quote]
Glad to be of service

[quote=NineCrimes]@karnage926: There's no need to be bitter.

This issue is obviously really annoying to do because you're looking for literally the tiniest range of damage that will definitively prove or disprove the theory.

But the point still stands that your test hints that a change was made, but does not conclusively prove anything.

@gopens: That's a good question. I don't know anything about the new BB formulas. You'd have to ask someone else. But that seems weird...[/quote]

I'm not being rude at all, I'm asking for help lol, cause if I'm wrong then I know not to use up a USE inventory space xD. Then again it wouldn't make sense to release 9 atk arrows either for the Chaos Patch =P.

[quote=Kevvl]Snails (all regular monsters, actually) reduce your damage by exactly 10%.

With a range of 2,625, you shouldn't be able to do less than 2,362.

Which, ironically, just confirmed that it doesn't stack since you did 2,321. Can you screenshot that?[/quote]

ROFL.

This post literally made my day and my day hasn't even started.

[quote=GoPens]Hey Nine so I just went and tried it on a regular snail with a war bow. I did no buffs accept soul arrow. Now I hit one of the snails and I hit like 2321 or something like that and my range with the 4 attack arrow is 2625~3241 but my range with a regular arrow is also 2509~3097. So what else needs to be taken into consideration? Should I take all my equips off except the bow or what? Just wanna know what else needs to be done because I really want to know if this works or not haha.[/quote]
Snails (all regular monsters, actually) reduce your damage by exactly 10%.

With a range of 2,625, you shouldn't be able to do less than 2,362.

Which, ironically, just confirmed that it doesn't stack since you did 2,321. Can you screenshot that?

@karnage926: There's no need to be bitter.

This issue is obviously really annoying to do because you're looking for literally the tiniest range of damage that will definitively prove or disprove the theory.

But the point still stands that your test hints that a change was made, but does not conclusively prove anything.

@gopens: That's a good question. I don't know anything about the new BB formulas. You'd have to ask someone else. But that seems weird...

[quote=Kevvl]This isn't a valid test, there's a bit more than this that you need to do. Client:Server damage as NineCrimes said proves nothing.[/quote]

Do the "real" test then kevvl like you did last time so we can all know what's the real truth.

This isn't a valid test, there's a bit more than this that you need to do. Client:Server damage as NineCrimes said proves nothing.

[quote=NineCrimes]Not to be a wet rag, but this only really proves that there's no longer a difference between client-sided and server-sided damage when using attack arrows...

The only true test is really doing this on a monster with 0 defense and using a regular arrow and seeing if you ever hit below your min damage range, unfortunately, afaik.[/quote]

still works.

Edit: @ above yes it stacks.

So do they stack or not?

Not to be a wet rag, but this only really proves that there's no longer a difference between client-sided and server-sided damage when using attack arrows...

The only true test is really doing this on a monster with 0 defense and using a regular arrow and seeing if you ever hit below your min damage range, unfortunately, afaik.