General

[quote=arlongnight]well im canning this idea for now and going back to the drawing board. i did at least get some good ideas from you guys. people are still looking for good training areas for higher levels but i will keep the following things in mind

-dont make grinding overshadow pq or questing in exp rewarded
-dont implement party play unless players absolutely demand it
-if implementing party play, dont make it too big of a boost
-bigger maps? make it impossible to kill faster than the respawn rate
-stick to already existing content rather than introducing new ones
-fix? scrapyard
-possibly nerf exp in stronghold[/quote]

Stronghold Exp will be nerfed if we follow KMS. In KMS, when stronghold gets starforce, the exp of the monsters becomes 69k and 73k. This is a buff from 30k or so from KMS, but this is a nerf to us. GMS copies KMS mostly, so this probably will happen anyway.

[quote=twopointonefour]@tricks122: Actually it encourages me to just find 2 or 3 other people and have them split the map without partying.[/quote]

This is why it either has to be mildly Party Play or party experience needs to be re-worked in order to give a higher experience to everyone who is active in parties. This way splitting with 2~3 people would be inefficient, and partying would be better in the long run for everyone's experience.

@tricks122: Actually it encourages me to just find 2 or 3 other people and have them split the map without partying.

[quote=twopointonefour]It's getting nerfed in 3~5 months when they change it into a star force map with 3 or 4 platforms. So it's inevitable.

@arlongnight : Bigger maps don't mean more efficient. Scrapyard is horribly inefficient. The reason people train at drill halls is the efficiency of them.[/quote]

I'm fairly certain the bigger map part would mean that parties would be required, thus making party play more likely; combined with a slight increase to party experience(Or better mechanics to reward players who kill instead of leech more), it could make a lot of maps viable and encourage parties, instead of solo training. Drill Hall is the 'lazy' solution that's so popular because it's convenient, can be solo'd and happens to be good experience; it has to be changed in some way if partying is ever going to happen, or partying has to outshine it and be even quicker, which is a different issue.

Bigger maps with a party can reward more experience, which is why in this day and age(Where one shotting isn't a problem for many players, and high health stuff is just problematic for people of lower funds to insane levels where they might as well leech), having a larger map with bonuses to parties(Either due to party experience bonuses or due to efficient killing/rewards) would help alleviate the congestion at Drill Hall, to some degree.

[quote=traitor]Glad you got the gist of it but where did the nerf exp of SH come from o-o[/quote]

There was a comment about it on the official forums I think.

[quote=traitor]Glad you got the gist of it but where did the nerf exp of SH come from o-o[/quote]

It's getting nerfed in 3~5 months when they change it into a star force map with 3 or 4 platforms. So it's inevitable.

@arlongnight : Bigger maps don't mean more efficient. Scrapyard is horribly inefficient. The reason people train at drill halls is the efficiency of them.

[quote=arlongnight]well im canning this idea for now and going back to the drawing board. i did at least get some good ideas from you guys. people are still looking for good training areas for higher levels but i will keep the following things in mind

-dont make grinding overshadow pq or questing in exp rewarded
-dont implement party play unless players absolutely demand it
-if implementing party play, dont make it too big of a boost
-bigger maps? make it impossible to kill faster than the respawn rate
-stick to already existing content rather than introducing new ones
-fix? scrapyard
-possibly nerf exp in stronghold[/quote]

Glad you got the gist of it but where did the nerf exp of SH come from o-o

well im canning this idea for now and going back to the drawing board. i did at least get some good ideas from you guys. people are still looking for good training areas for higher levels but i will keep the following things in mind

-dont make grinding overshadow pq or questing in exp rewarded
-dont implement party play unless players absolutely demand it
-if implementing party play, dont make it too big of a boost
-bigger maps? make it impossible to kill faster than the respawn rate
-stick to already existing content rather than introducing new ones
-fix? scrapyard
-possibly nerf exp in stronghold

[quote=tricks122]@arlongnight Seems like Scrapyard needs to be fixed if it's bugged then. That adds a third option from 200+.

Why not use Future Perion as well? I mean, I suppose it's high level enough that it being Party Play doesn't mean everyone has to flock to it, but those who want faster experience in organized parties can go.

In terms of giving people experience for being in parties... why not change the experience earned while in parties? Instead of adding Party Play areas, why not just make partying in somewhat larger maps(As in, most maps in Maple Story that can't be quickly dealt with in one spawn rotation) a 'natural' sort of idea? Simply put, instead of giving bonus experience for partying in certain areas, just make partying faster for everyone. As in, if multiple party members are actively killing different mobs, give them a sort of 'bonus', but don't give them any if they're just sitting there doing nothing. This way, you can essentially turn ANY area into a party friendly area, so long as it's somewhat large(And most maps tend to be!).

Although if the Party Play method must be used, then you could use Kritias, Future Perion and Scrapyard; all of them seem to be mostly deserted and are at a few varying levels(Not sure what Scrapyard is at, Kritias is 200ish, Future Perion is 190 or so; it might be better to tone down Kritias and have Future Perion as a higher level, since I think the maps are better suited to parties in Future Perion), are relatively high level and in the case of Kritias has daily quests that grouping up could help with(Assuming every Mapler has the same daily quests). Maybe even Temple of Time, considering how it spans the areas from 140~160 or so.[/quote]

Agree with this. Just fix when we got, if people were complaining that Stronghold was what we got, just make other places more viable. Exp gain shouldn't be raised just because leveling is hard. [It's a million times easier than it once was and takes merely a fraction of the time it once did.] Regardless people should have to work for it.

@arlongnight Seems like Scrapyard needs to be fixed if it's bugged then. That adds a third option from 200+.

Why not use Future Perion as well? I mean, I suppose it's high level enough that it being Party Play doesn't mean everyone has to flock to it, but those who want faster experience in organized parties can go.

In terms of giving people experience for being in parties... why not change the experience earned while in parties? Instead of adding Party Play areas, why not just make partying in somewhat larger maps(As in, most maps in Maple Story that can't be quickly dealt with in one spawn rotation) a 'natural' sort of idea? Simply put, instead of giving bonus experience for partying in certain areas, just make partying faster for everyone. As in, if multiple party members are actively killing different mobs, give them a sort of 'bonus', but don't give them any if they're just sitting there doing nothing. This way, you can essentially turn ANY area into a party friendly area, so long as it's somewhat large(And most maps tend to be!).

Although if the Party Play method must be used, then you could use Kritias, Future Perion and Scrapyard; all of them seem to be mostly deserted and are at a few varying levels(Not sure what Scrapyard is at, Kritias is 200ish, Future Perion is 190 or so; it might be better to tone down Kritias and have Future Perion as a higher level, since I think the maps are better suited to parties in Future Perion), are relatively high level and in the case of Kritias has daily quests that grouping up could help with(Assuming every Mapler has the same daily quests). Maybe even Temple of Time, considering how it spans the areas from 140~160 or so.

@arlongnight, it's sad to say people don't always know what's best for them in the game they play. I'm not trying to put you in a hard spot but I don't think the whole community would be crazy upset with you if party play wasn't brought back. I also don't know if you were tasked with getting info about players wanting party play. Party play was pretty neat when it existed but at the same time it was also kind of OP and easily abused. Aside from that, bringing that back may or may not be a good idea. However, in the manner proposed I would have to say no.

If something is done, I believe it's better to have it done right.

@Tricks122 has brought up some good points but I don't think Monster Park would be the place to start though. However, I think the best to implement this would be a party quest still instead of grinding or grind x for y.

If you go back to the beginning pages, other ideas have been proposed by other players in how character interaction can be brought back and how the game can be improved.

Edit: I am giving you a third idea to propose to Artasi. What good is feedback if we don't voice our ideas to improve the game?

If you guys actually grinded towards end-game, you will realize there are more than just SDH/FDH. You can also use Armory 1/2 and KD3/4 depending on party. Even in those maps you'll realize that most people just leech regardless. Why not give those players something to enjoy and work for while actually interacting with people rather than attackers attacking and leechers leeching?

Seems counter-productive to the game to me. Most randoms I've partied with want to be partied then as soon as they are partied, they afk.

Take a look at this comment: [url=http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=77652&p=1302802&viewfull=1#post1302802]here[/url]

What I'm merely saying is: "[b]Think outside the box.[/b]"

this is a quote from artasi

"@MLC:

From what I see, the Community favors the improvement and revamps of existing training areas over the addition of any kind of "paid training area", etc. I therefore direct the MLC to focus instead on reviewing existing training areas, including "popular" training paths, and work to review what could be done to improve EXP, Ease-of-Access, and Rewards from training in less popular and overlooked areas."

here are some direct quotes from players

"So, level 200+ are still crowding together with level 165-200 in First and Second Drill Hall. That's a lot of people for just two maps. Most of the actively training population, in fact."
"Scrapyard has been bugged since it's launch, so to this date we still have only TWO viable maps for leveling from 160+"
"Or add more party maps that give +exp for each ppl in the party."
"Better yet just bring back the party play areas."
"Buff up existing maps, increase party-play functionality, and improve server stability for high-capacity periods."

i understand the balance issue with how grinding is just so much faster than anything else so everyone just flocks to that. i did not make this thread to discuss that though. as i have been told by artasi and the community, you guys want party play training areas for levels 160+. im trying to figure out a solution for that so im reaching out to the community that asked for this. instead of getting feedback for something you guys have been asking for, i keep getting told "there are more important issues."

@arlongnight Instead of making them Party Play, just make it so a party is required to access it or to utilize the map efficiently. The experience could be slightly better than normal training at that level(Although this could be due to a lower multiplier of Party Play experience; 50% for each member was excessive), but not enough to blow current training away(And thus paving the way to re-balance PQ's and Quests to a decent level).

I'm not sure what 'high level' means, but a lot of the Monster Park maps are decently high. They just suck. You could re-balance the experience and turn them into something like Monster Park Extreme... Large map with odd spawns, a boss shows up eventually after 'x' mobs killed; maybe make the experience earned by clearing the boss(Or where most of it comes from)? Not sure if that would be a fix, but you'd have grinding, beating something stronger up and then repeat. If the kill count needed was relatively high, then the experience could be decent, although with a good 'chunk' coming at the end from completion(Which could be what makes it better than normal grinding).

Party Play just can't be a massive boon, or it'll break the game. If it was constructed in a way like the above paragraph(In the sense of needing a party to grind with incentives for everyone to participate and not have one attacker with five leeches/buffers) and the experience was better(But not on the same level Lionheart Castle was compared to other level-appropriate training), then I could see it working. I probably wouldn't like it on a personal level, but as long as I'm not forced to do it for any kind of training progression, I'd be okay with it existing.

i understand what you are saying. as ive said many times, i hate party play too. however, and i cannot stress this enough, people have specifically been asking for high level party play training areas. i already know the problems that arise from party play maps and talking about that isnt helping me right now. i mean im stuck between a rock and a hard place. a chunk of people are saying party play is a bad idea and that i should focus on more important things and a bigger chunk is saying we need more party play training maps for high levels.

@arlongnight, I think simply put the idea is a "negative" and the answer would be a no. I agree with @defensenub on this one. How will the game benefit from higher/faster exp gain? You can pretty much do everything you need to do at 210. Leveling past that point just boosts your base stat by 5 per level.

With that being said, Nexon already removed the 2x cap to extend beyond 200+ so players over 200 can purchase them. Personally having grinded most levels prior to having 2x cards available [was already 24x], I think it was great that it was faster but what was the point? I didn't use them everyday like some people did but that just gave the opportunity for paying players to pass me. /shrugs

Most people nowadays level so fast that their gear is unable to match up to their level making their struggle harder. Unfunded players often find themselves stuck at a certain level because their equipment cannot sustain them at their current level. You can see these threads almost everyday when people ask for funding help. When that ultimately happens and people panic, they quit because some people can't afford the Tyrant Capes/CRA sets that everyone has. Even then, making them up to par is another struggle that we haven't dwelled into. Like @defensenub said, there are bigger issues at hand. Leveling isn't one of them. [I mean it can be, but just mash some keys and you'll level up eventually]

the community today is a result of centralizing/maximizing exp gain
in what way would the game better with even faster exp gain?

one of the reasons why maple big banged right around potential is that they finally had a reason to implement a mechanic to add to your damage immensely without being disproportional to level. in hindsight (and my opinion), faster exp gain is toxic to the game overall, but not to profits.

there's better things to focus on. lol.

@traitor I'm fine with that, honestly. It's not bad, and it's one of the reasons a lot of players used to do certain quests back in the day.

@arlongnight The problem here is that for those players, giving them a new grinding area solves nothing. I'm also pretty sure that First Drill Hall isn't Party Play anymore, since many players solo those maps with an out of party Kanna and a Bishop in the party who doesn't leech(Ideally, at least), unless they're giving players leech or sharing the map. The thing is, players who grind are limited in choice of maps, but those who want alternatives are limited in choice of style; if you want to bring Party Play back, then just institute it in certain areas(Lionheart Castle, Stronghold and perhaps something in the 130~150 range), but make the base experience horrible so it isn't abused(Which solves nothing in the end). It's not going to make grinding any more 'immersive' though; it seems to me that people complaining about grinding are disappointed that it's so slow, or that the top areas are stagnant(But that's what you get when you're sticking to under 10% of the maps in your Maple career of grinding).

Simply put, if all people want to do is kill things over and over without thinking... Party Play isn't the solution, because you're just going to have the Lionheart Castle situation again(Where the ideal party involves several leechers/buffers, and few attackers). All you need to do in this case is give them a few alternate maps(Make Scrapyard better than Drill Hall, for example, and make Future Perion viable) and the problem is solved.

If Party Play does return in force, then it needs to do a few things correctly. It has to promote active players(And not leechers) through some means(Such as making the map so large and with bad spawns that 4~5 players are needed, at the least, to attack and clear it effectively), it shouldn't be the dominant method of experience(As in, make it balanced around the other methods or balance the other methods around it, but don't make it so any other training beyond this method is essentially useless) and make it so that players that have insane amounts of funds aren't the ones the map is balanced around. Only then, regardless of how it's implemented, will it even be remotely close to healthy.

Monster Park already has a lot of options for it, just balance the experience reward so it's worth doing in comparison to other methods, and it wouldn't be bad for solo grinders. But Party Play in general tends to be bad for this game by screwing pretty much every other method of training, so it's not something that should be put in without serious play-testing and consideration.

Instead of making this a high end Leveling place, do you think having it a 140-170 grinding place much more enjoyable? If DiPQ is changing from 10x a day to 5x a day (i think not 100% sure) it would a great alternative for those levels

im personally fine with getting rid of party play from the game completely. but that would spark a flood of outrage from the people that actually do enjoy killing the same thing over and over for hours on end. i understand and agree with balance. the 2 things im looking to solve is to get party play out of the way of completing quests, and provide a high level grinding area. currently the best place to grind is sdh from 165+ which is almost 100 levels. this needs to be separated.

what if added to my monster park idea, it was made into a high level party play zone. so theres monster park extreme, and then at 140 you have access to normal monster park. the first portal has level 140-150 monsters, second portal has 170-180 monsters and third portal has 200-210 monsters?

[quote=tricks122]@traitor I'd be fine with that. It's not like those type of rewards would help me anyway, so I don't see in a point in giving me(Or anyone else who is high level and does them) the rewards, but as long as I can do them and get anything cosmetic or 'neat'(As in rewards like Chief Stan's Hat, back in the day), I'm down for that.[/quote]

Yeah, that was what I was trying to say originally. I just didn't work out the kinks of the idea nor knew how to phrase it. But do you understand the idea? Beneficial to do earlier because you get 'additional' things that assist you but if you're going to blaze through the levels and do it later you lose the 'assistance' based items that are not needed/necessary later on but you still get the net cosmetic things like [ie. Chief Stan Hat] [url=http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/2893701/1/#46567811]I also mentioned briefly here my ideas for more incentives to do Quests and making the prizes of more use and less waste of space in this thread.[/url]

@traitor I'd be fine with that. It's not like those type of rewards would help me anyway, so I don't see in a point in giving me(Or anyone else who is high level and does them) the rewards, but as long as I can do them and get anything cosmetic or 'neat'(As in rewards like Chief Stan's Hat, back in the day), I'm down for that.

@arlongnight The problem with Party Play is that it drastically demolishes solo training. Look back at Lionheart Castle; nobody left it from the moment it began, and if you did, then you leveled so many times slower. It also emphasized leeching, because stronger players could clear them like regular mobs(More or less), in comparison to normal mobs that everyone could kill. Party Play essentially boils down to more experience for grouping up, but because damage leads to more experience in parties, leechers to 'take advantage' of the bonus are needed; heavily funded players(Or just 'good' classes) also tend to dominate those areas.

Simply put, the party experience distribution needs to be changed for Party Play to be fair, and not the only option. If Party Play 'has' to come back, then it should be in a map that encourages several players to be active(At least 4~5), rather than encourages 'leechers' or 'buffers' to hang on a rope or stay out of the fight. The problem, in my opinion, is that players don't have OPTIONS to level; the best method(Drill Hall nowadays, Lionheart Castle in the past) is always leagues ahead of other ways. If Party Play was balanced with, say, Party Quests and solo-Questing(As in, actual quest chains, like Temple of Time), it wouldn't be bad; the problem is that it's so good, it always dwarfs other methods. And that's the problems we had with Party Play in the past; ditching one method for another one with identical requirements doesn't seem like 'progress', to me.

@arlongnight, aside from negligible drops on the outside[nothing noteworthy drops from SH or any training area for that matter, anyways]. I agree with what @Tricks122 stated, there's pretty much no need to leave this area and exploration will further drop into a decline if we had an all-purpose area handed to us. Convenient? Yes. However, it's a little too convenient.

[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1BQPV-iCkU]This might help push my point across a little better.[/url] The guy falling out of the chair is pretty much any new player leaving this Dystopia of a training ground.

[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6d4kCdbLc0]Remove that training ground after having the idea of Dystopia for a while.[/url]

because the maps inside the mini dungeons are specifically for grinding. if you are looking for drops or complete quests then hunting outside alone would be better. my biggest gripe with party play is that it gets in the way of questing if the mobs you have to hunt are only available in party areas such as old lion king castle. party play should not get in the way of questing. i mean its like asking whats the point of pretty much any map in stronghold other than fdh and sdh when thats the only maps that gets used?

[quote=arlongnight]this is the kind of response im looking for. would you suggest then, to remove party play from the game completely and leave monster park as is? im honestly fine with that but there is still so many players that like party play. what if mini dungeons were reintroduced with party play in them? you could have the regular mobs outside but inside the mini dungeon are the same mobs but with higher hp/exp and party play bonus?[/quote]

Obviously it would be something nice to have to speed through levels. However, why would the maps outside be of any need or use if the maps inside your proposed "party play" area are so much better? It's basically the same thing mentioned before and we're going in circles now for essentially the whole thread.

@Tricks122, oh btw another idea for rewards would be Skill Books. For the unfunded, it's semi-hard for starting players to receive them and have to wait a while before obtaining them all. The average funded player would be able to buy these no problem so that doesn't really break the game in any way and they're not really missing out on anything

[quote=tricks122]@arlongnight Congregating all, or even most, of the effective leveling into Monster Park past 105 or so seems bad. While it seems convenient, all it's going to do is essentially create another Lionheart Castle/old Stronghold situation, where literally EVERYONE goes there, and the other content of the game gets neglected. Is it convenient? Sure. Is it good because it's convenient? Not really. While Party Play was nice, it had the side effect of promoting leeches in parties while 1~3 players solo'd the map for more efficient experience. It also removes a lot of the 'exploration' element for players; why even bother exploring(Let alone training in one map) Mu Lung/Herb Town, Ludibrium, Leafre or other areas around that level unless they're for an obligatory pre-quest for a boss? With your proposed changes, I don't see many reasons.

I think the better solution is to focus on PQ's for a community aspect. Or re-do the party aspect to promote faster leveling for everyone. Limiting the efficient leveling to Monster Park and grinding in it at the expense of 'people who want party play', without offering efficient alternatives for solo players, is a bad way to promote the community aspect(Especially with how Party Play, ideally, had 3~5 leechers when it was popular).[/quote]

this is the kind of response im looking for. would you suggest then, to remove party play from the game completely and leave monster park as is? im honestly fine with that but there is still so many players that like party play. what if mini dungeons were reintroduced with party play in them? you could have the regular mobs outside but inside the mini dungeon are the same mobs but with higher hp/exp and party play bonus?

[quote=traitor]
-Grind-fest is boring and will further take away from gameplay
-This will end up like RnJ PQ stage
-This is pretty much the same idea as the Mini-Dungeons proposed a few days ago but for a specific area
-What is there to stop abuse such as the ds bots/bw bots that fly in and out, people abusing party play yet again [partying with mules+hs/kanna]
-Would this not take away from our current training areas? [SH/Scrapyard/Mech Grave/Twilight Perion][/quote]

1. i agree, however i cannot ignore the many players that do like to grind all day long
2. agreed except players will be using the content in for its intended purpose
3. im not sure what youre talking if you arent talking about the premium mini dungeons thread. that sparked outrage because that is an nx exclusive content.
4. whats there to stop bots from botting in any other map? do people not abuse party play right now?
5. yes it would, thats the point

[quote=arlongnight]im well aware of that. however as i have stated, there already is a separate discussion specifically related to party quests. http://maplestory.nexon.net/community#%2Fshowthread.php%3F1469898-Party-Quests-Suggestions%26nxid%3D6

it doesnt help when people bombard me with several topics at once. it helps to keep things organized and have separate discussions for separate topics. this is about high level party play grinding areas, something many players have been asking for. and my suggestion is a revamp to monster park to be that grinding area. what i want to know is whether or not this is a good idea and why as well as any improvements that can be made. bringing up other issues you have with the game is good but this is not the thread for it.[/quote]

I'll take all comments and lay them short and stream-lined for you:
-Grind-fest is boring and will further take away from gameplay
-This will end up like RnJ PQ stage
-This is pretty much the same idea as the Mini-Dungeons proposed a few days ago but for a specific area
-What is there to stop abuse such as the ds bots/bw bots that fly in and out, people abusing party play yet again [partying with mules+hs/kanna]
-Would this not take away from our current training areas? [SH/Scrapyard/Mech Grave/Twilight Perion]

I'm probably forgetting something but you can go ahead and look back at my other comments

@tricks122, point taken. Possibly have rewards available when done at an earlier level but still able for completion at a later time. [Rewards meaning the stuff that helps unfunded people but are unnecessary for end-game]

@traitor There are several reasons I might want to do low level quests. In particular for Quest Specialist and to experience the storyline of an area; level locking these is silly, because if they're useless for even remotely funded players, then why lock the players who want to experience the quest-line out for no reason? Higher level players won't do them regardless, so putting a level lock is just silly. I've done plenty of low level quests on my Buccaneer because I like to experience the atmosphere of areas, and locking players like me out of it content just seems dumb, especially if that content has no actual use to me; you're already telling me, if the rewards don't help me, that I should do it for fun if I enjoy it, and if not ignore it. That's enough of an incentive for the vast majority of the population who thinks that it is useless to ignore it.

@arlongnight Congregating all, or even most, of the effective leveling into Monster Park past 105 or so seems bad. While it seems convenient, all it's going to do is essentially create another Lionheart Castle/old Stronghold situation, where literally EVERYONE goes there, and the other content of the game gets neglected. Is it convenient? Sure. Is it good because it's convenient? Not really. While Party Play was nice, it had the side effect of promoting leeches in parties while 1~3 players solo'd the map for more efficient experience. It also removes a lot of the 'exploration' element for players; why even bother exploring(Let alone training in one map) Mu Lung/Herb Town, Ludibrium, Leafre or other areas around that level unless they're for an obligatory pre-quest for a boss? With your proposed changes, I don't see many reasons.

I think the better solution is to focus on PQ's for a community aspect. Or re-do the party aspect to promote faster leveling for everyone. Limiting the efficient leveling to Monster Park and grinding in it at the expense of 'people who want party play', without offering efficient alternatives for solo players, is a bad way to promote the community aspect(Especially with how Party Play, ideally, had 3~5 leechers when it was popular).

im well aware of that. however as i have stated, there already is a separate discussion specifically related to party quests. http://maplestory.nexon.net/community#%2Fshowthread.php%3F1469898-Party-Quests-Suggestions%26nxid%3D6

it doesnt help when people bombard me with several topics at once. it helps to keep things organized and have separate discussions for separate topics. this is about high level party play grinding areas, something many players have been asking for. and my suggestion is a revamp to monster park to be that grinding area. what i want to know is whether or not this is a good idea and why as well as any improvements that can be made. bringing up other issues you have with the game is good but this is not the thread for it.

[quote=happytraderr]This guy isn't even listening to a thing anybody is saying lol.[/quote]

lmao, have doubts he's even reading deeply into the comments other than skimming

[quote=arlongnight]because no one is commenting on what this thread is actually about. this thread is for discussion on monster park not party quests, events, or botting.[/quote]

The game is not limited to only Monster Park. I get that it's your idea and you'd like to push it however, the community has spoken and addressed many other issues at hand.

We didn't bring up the idea of botting for no reason, it was a topic that stemmed from exploitation from what you had brought up. You mentioned alternative grind fests, that stemmed other ideas such as PQ revamps or alternative ways to level instead of grinding inside what seems like an RnJ PQ structure with party play.

When proposing ideas, you are to expect criticism.That's the only way you can improve on your ideas. Listen to what the community has to say. As an MLC representative, I needn't tell you what you have to do. [b]You are our voice, you are here to listen to what we the community/player base have to say then represent us.[/b]

Make 3rd, 4th drill and 5th drill hall please

[quote=happytraderr]This guy isn't even listening to a thing anybody is saying lol.[/quote]

because no one is commenting on what this thread is actually about. this thread is for discussion on monster park not party quests, events, or botting.

This guy isn't even listening to a thing anybody is saying lol.

@traitor: Man, same. I was at 60 thinking "I'm gonna take my sweet time with this lower level content since it's pretty nice" but then the 10th anniversary event came along with those insane exp mobs that you had to kill every day. Suddenly I was way above hunting wild boar teeth and just waiting on the next item-rain at the festival map. Please I just want to help the poor people of Perion, I don't got time for this.

@sadvirgin: Events take away from the actual game play for me... I mean sure it's great to have free things but if the free things require me to spend my time doing that than what I do normally, what's the point right? LOL. I need a breather to do whatever I needed to do. Some of that includes some quests and video/guide making I have planned but no time...

I think cool puzzles are neat...

[quote=traitor]
@SadVirgin, I agree with you that the daily quests require a lot of killing/gathering. I don't really see it being much below 120 tbh. Leveling has gotten very easy but by stuffing everything upwards of 150+ the stragglers who are stuck around the 120 range don't have much going for them. I haven't really worked out the kinks out myself, but this is merely a suggestion

However, I do think your idea is pretty neat. I liked doing Amoria PQ. Personally, I was also thinking more along the lines of puzzle stages and whatnot but I haven't gathered my thoughts yet so I didn't mention it. It's just that grind and gather has been beaten to death.

The back-to-back events everyone thinks are so enjoyable have been killer ._. L> Semi-break for awhile. Possibly space them a week or two apart[/quote]

Recently did Black Heaven and there's a lot of cool things in there that could be implemented as PQ stages. Like the bouncy JQ parts, the don't-get-caught stages, and the hitting-squares-to-connect-parts stages. That's just my wishful thinking though, not realistic to expect that they'd do major PQ revamps with these new mechanics.

I'm 100% with you on needing that break from events. Love going back to old quests and stuff when I got the time but there's only 24 hours in a day. Burning event's been burning me out, huehue.

[quote=arlongnight]again this is a separate topic from high level party play maps. this thread is to address the issues of high level grinding maps that many people want and the suggestion to turn monster park into the solution for these issues

from what i know, demon slayer bots are not botting for exp but for mesos and items.[/quote]

That is because of their no-mp consumption. If Demon Slayers are able to re-enter, I don't see why other classes aren't able do so as well?

again this is a separate topic from high level party play maps. this thread is to address the issues of high level grinding maps that many people want and the suggestion to turn monster park into the solution for these issues

from what i know, demon slayer bots are not botting for exp but for mesos and items.

[quote=arlongnight]dont get me wrong, those are good ideas. having cash shop covers as rewards from low level theme dungeons, possibly scrolls such as epic potential or clean slates. but it doesnt address the issue of high level players wanting party play maps to grind in
also the mlc is still in discussion about party quests. that is a separate topic from this though[/quote]

I'm always skeptical about things giving out Epic/Unique Pots/Slates/Innos though. These things have a factor to change the market. I mean sure it's neat but you gotta look at the bigger picture how it will affect the game as a whole. I like farming free things as much as the next guy but how it is going to affect the game? Even if they're untradeable, items can be xferred over characters to use them.

That's generally what you guys should look out for as well. As I mentioned on SouthPerry, I think the MLC should act in unison so you all know what the other members are looking to do rather than acting individually and dealing about things later.

Edit: I saw that you edited the comment making the Mini-Dungeons timed. These were available in the past and the DemonSlayer bots were able to reset back into the dungeons.

dont get me wrong, those are good ideas. having cash shop covers as rewards from low level theme dungeons, possibly scrolls such as epic potential or clean slates. but it doesnt address the issue of high level players wanting party play maps to grind in
also the mlc is still in discussion about party quests. that is a separate topic from this though

as for the issue with private maps and botting, the private maps as i said are timed so it will kick you out back to the monster park lobby. the solo maps are not timed but they are not private and anyone can enter and exit them.

[quote=tricks122]Not everyone wants to level slowly, and having quests solely for low levels is a dumb idea(Case in point, old PQ's such as Ellin PQ od Ludi PQ more or less forcing players to suicide in order to obtain the rewards from it). At least in my opinion; instead, make the quests [i]actually worth it[/i] for low levels. Make them a good source of experience, rewards, daily beneficial quests, etc. A lot of MMO's I've played encouraged that you do lower level quests when you were around their level, since they were generally good experience, unlocked certain aspects of the game, gave good rewards or were required for quests further down the line.

Low levels fly by no matter what you're doing, anyway. Anything below 100, honestly, doesn't really "exist"(Maybe below 60 or 70 if you push it). Before that, you just level up so fast that the current content is actually TOO much, because you can't possibly experience it all.

All that really need to be done is emphasize PQ's(Not private dungeons) and quests in general as the best way to level, especially for certain levels where grinding methods such as R&J and DIPQ beat out everything else by a large margin. If PQ's had those levels of experience, players would WANT to do them, and honestly... it'd be a lot more entertaining than smashing the face of mobs in over and over.

Paid for private dungeons don't solve a problem, and pointlessly making the most optimal training be 'go into this portal and hit these mobs' without experiencing 90% of the game's content seems... dumb. Pretty much every area has some form of quest-line, had some form of PQ based around it and at one point these PQ's were rewarding(As well as select quests). Why not make it so those quests are actually rewarding now, and PQ's are the best training outlet? That way you make it so players can level at their own pace, but can still level quickly if they want(At no penalty), whilst making it so players WANT to experience new areas and content in the game(Instead of a majority of every area being useless beyond one or two grinding maps).[/quote]

As I mentioned prior, there is no forced suicide. Those who wish to benefit from it, can. Those who don't can skip it but will miss out on the rewards which won't really help you unless you're completely unfunded and would like the chance to make yourself better.

The rewards I proposed were slightly better scrolls for specific equipment like the Pensalir set that is in no way end-game equipment. However, there are some unfunded people who wish to obtain better gear but have no other options how. This would help them the most. I also suggested a bettering of the PQ points shop. That way the newer players can gather money instead of wasting it even at a lower level/lower funding stand point. It will greatly help you if you're starting from nothing. This just gives players another option to do so.

@SadVirgin, I agree with you that the daily quests require a lot of killing/gathering. I don't really see it being much below 120 tbh. Leveling has gotten very easy but by stuffing everything upwards of 150+ the stragglers who are stuck around the 120 range don't have much going for them. I haven't really worked out the kinks out myself, but this is merely a suggestion

However, I do think your idea is pretty neat. I liked doing Amoria PQ. Personally, I was also thinking more along the lines of puzzle stages and whatnot but I haven't gathered my thoughts yet so I didn't mention it. It's just that grind and gather has been beaten to death.

The back-to-back events everyone thinks are so enjoyable have been killer ._. L> Semi-break for awhile. Possibly space them a week or two apart

[quote=traitor]
Example: Certain quest lines that you can [b]only[/b] do at lower levels, so people won't just rush to 200 in a few days but take the time to work those quests. A good way to stimulate this is the prizes, they would have to be worth-while but at the same time, not absolutely necessary. For example, the Item-specific scrolls. However, I don't think this should be make unfair to the point where the lower levels would easily obtain the end-game godlies. This should just put them into a better position than we have now.[/quote]

The only problem with this is that it's REALLY hard to not overlevel these days, when you have other dailies like attendance and whatnot that will give you exp whether you like it or not. I had to sincerely pace myself just to be able to get the Balrog quest and card before 100, and I've seen other threads that complain saying that Balrog level restriction should be removed for this reason.
I'm not sure what you mean by "lower levels" but I can see it being an issue if you mean below 100-120.

Something I really enjoyed with this KFT and throwback event was that I could go with a person of any level and we'd do the same damage. I think this might be something interesting when it comes to PQs, not making them too easy but still being able to go with friends and guildies that would 1HKO everything otherwise, of course completion-exp would be scaled to the individual level as well. No grinding stages, just collecting and puzzles, so that mob exp wouldn't matter.
I keep nagging about Amoria PQ because I truly love it, but the boss is so incredibly easy now and there's no real specific level for the PQ. It used to be decent exp for lower levels, while you could get apples and goodies from the bonus.
(Or it's a terrible idea, I haven't slept very well so I'm really just blurting out thoughts at this point.)

[quote=traitor]Yes they do, however, why not think of an idea to promote/stimulate actual character interaction? Why the sudden hurry to level up? If the game was geared towards lower levels with more fun things to do together as well and neat prizes and such, it would be a good cause.[/quote]

Not everyone wants to level slowly, and having quests solely for low levels is a dumb idea(Case in point, old PQ's such as Ellin PQ od Ludi PQ more or less forcing players to suicide in order to obtain the rewards from it). At least in my opinion; instead, make the quests [i]actually worth it[/i] for low levels. Make them a good source of experience, rewards, daily beneficial quests, etc. A lot of MMO's I've played encouraged that you do lower level quests when you were around their level, since they were generally good experience, unlocked certain aspects of the game, gave good rewards or were required for quests further down the line.

Low levels fly by no matter what you're doing, anyway. Anything below 100, honestly, doesn't really "exist"(Maybe below 60 or 70 if you push it). Before that, you just level up so fast that the current content is actually TOO much, because you can't possibly experience it all.

All that really need to be done is emphasize PQ's(Not private dungeons) and quests in general as the best way to level, especially for certain levels where grinding methods such as R&J and DIPQ beat out everything else by a large margin. If PQ's had those levels of experience, players would WANT to do them, and honestly... it'd be a lot more entertaining than smashing the face of mobs in over and over.

Paid for private dungeons don't solve a problem, and pointlessly making the most optimal training be 'go into this portal and hit these mobs' without experiencing 90% of the game's content seems... dumb. Pretty much every area has some form of quest-line, had some form of PQ based around it and at one point these PQ's were rewarding(As well as select quests). Why not make it so those quests are actually rewarding now, and PQ's are the best training outlet? That way you make it so players can level at their own pace, but can still level quickly if they want(At no penalty), whilst making it so players WANT to experience new areas and content in the game(Instead of a majority of every area being useless beyond one or two grinding maps).

[quote=arlongnight]i think the problem with making the game geared to lower levels is that the lower levels pass by so quickly. i would want a general decrease in the amount of exp mobs give to slow down levelling but that would cause too much outrage. i also hate party play with a passion but most players love them. personally i would want no party play at all and make party questing the optimal way to level up. but the party play advocates would hate that. because they just want to grind all day with the least amount of effort.[/quote]

I gave you options/ideas to implement slowing it down without the outage. For those who want to skip it, they can.

[b]Please take the time to read my full suggestion and not just skim through it.[/b] I discussed it in detail.

You will not need to decrease the exp given by mobs. Now that is madness and an absurd idea. [No offense.]

Trust me, I love to grind as much as the next guy but I gave you unbiased ideas that won't even effect me at all but will be for the better of the general public and the community itself.

i think the problem with making the game geared to lower levels is that the lower levels pass by so quickly. i would want a general decrease in the amount of exp mobs give to slow down levelling but that would cause too much outrage. i also hate party play with a passion but most players love them. personally i would want no party play at all and make party questing the optimal way to level up. but the party play advocates would hate that. because they just want to grind all day with the least amount of effort.

8 year rollback.

[quote=arlongnight]people already solo grind. i have had this idea in mind for a few years now where i tried to think of ways to prevent leeching and to encourage actual parties, but it would be too restrictive and people on the official forums kept disagreeing with everything i said with trivial things like, well my computer lags so no i think this is a horrible idea.

also whats this about portals? i never mentioned portals.

people were outraged with the pmd because they wanted a good free grinding map. this is a grinding map[/quote]

Yes they do, however, why not think of an idea to promote/stimulate actual character interaction? Why the sudden hurry to level up? If the game was geared towards lower levels with more fun things to do together as well and neat prizes and such, it would be a good cause.

people already solo grind. i have had this idea in mind for a few years now where i tried to think of ways to prevent leeching and to encourage actual parties, but it would be too restrictive and people on the official forums kept disagreeing with everything i said with trivial things like, well my computer lags so no i think this is a horrible idea.

also whats this about portals? i never mentioned portals.

people were outraged with the pmd because they wanted a good free grinding map. this is a grinding map

private map would be a safe haven for bots, although the company hardly cares about them in the first place...

As awesome as this might be, it might just take away from the game play all together. What stops people from bringing in mules and solo grind exploitation? Make it more interactive if anything, a grindfest is just boring. It seems as though this would be a remake of the RnJ grindfest...

What about fixing up the PQ system first? Higher EXP rewards and better rewards that wont just kill the game?

ie.
A fun to do but not so-annoying PQ such as Ludi Maze PQ that was taken out. Prizes can be a new type of scrolls such as Pensalir equip scrolls[only applicable to this type of equjipment] that are 75% and add 1-2 stats better than what the current spell traces give? It's not much but it's enough to make people want to work for it for those who are unfunded and it won't ruin the game.

...or actually make some cooler prizes for the PQ point shop.

[url=http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/2893701/1/#46567811]As you can see here,[/url] I've proposed other ideas for revamps as well.

[b]Another thing is to stimulate character interaction again. If all we're doing is implementing grind fests, the game will only sink deeper into a decline.[/b]

Note: Make lower levels more fun so people don't have to rush towards end-game. Not everyone wants to level and if people want to take their time, make the low levels more worth it.

Example: Certain quest lines that you can [b]only[/b] do at lower levels, so people won't just rush to 200 in a few days but take the time to work those quests. A good way to stimulate this is the prizes, they would have to be worth-while but at the same time, not absolutely necessary. For example, the Item-specific scrolls. However, I don't think this should be make unfair to the point where the lower levels would easily obtain the end-game godlies. This should just put them into a better position than we have now.

I like this idea, and could you also suggest that MPExtreme be available until 250 instead of 140? Having to make low level characters to get MPE potions and greed pendants is more than a hassle