General

@improvement first off, you CLEARLY haven't been keeping track of the changes they've made to the RA set in the KMS live server, or you'd know that 1. they raised the m.att, 2. that the inherent boss on the weapon was reduced to 30%, or 3. that they changed the set from 9% total damage to 30% boss damage, and second off, my math still proves something, because if the only mistake you made was on the value of a variable, you can just rewrite the equation using the correct variable and get the right answer, as I'll show in this self-quote, by doing just that
[quote=juarmo]You're forgetting that while your sacrificing 20% boss worth of inner ability to hit speed cap on a fafnir, your sacrificing 30% boss worth of set effects and additional options to hit speed cap without inner ability on an ele staff, say you had an ele staff and a fafnir with equal attack, ele has a speed of 4 while fafnir has a speed of 8, now post hypers, Bams will have constant body boost, which, when coupled with booster's +2 and aya's +1, BB's +2 will grant a constant -5 speed, so 4 - 5 =-1 which becomes 2, and fafnir's speed becomes 8-5=3, fafnir gets 30% boss from RA set bonus so now the ele has 0%boss and 2 speed while fafnir has 30% boss and 3 speed, now lets say your inner ability has one line of boss damage for ele and 1 line of attack speed for fafnir, that's +20% boss and -1 attack speed respectively, so now you've got a 20% boss and 2 speed on your ele, but youve got 30% boss and 2 speed from fafnir, meaning sacrificing 1 line of 20% boss inner ability for hitting the speed cap, makes you better off overall. Who cares about losing 20% boss to gain 30% AND maintain the speed? Its actually BETTER to lose your % boss inner ability in exchange for +1 speed, because you're doing it to maintain your speed using a weapon whose power CLEARLY makes up for the loss in %boss, and my math proves it.[/quote]
see, by switching out the incorrect variable with the right one, you now have a working equation to solve, and it STILL says that fafnir is better, which should've already been obvious because the 20% lost from switching inner ability bonuses < the 30% gained from switching weapons to complete the set, meaning you'd be gaining 10% MORE than you lost, and BTW, all fafnir weaps dropped from mobs post unlimited will probs ALSO have the inherent 30% boss

Elemental Staffs look sexier, so go with those.

Um from what ive gathered clean there is a 29 magic attack difference my source http://www.hidden-street.net/gms/equipment/weapon/staff?job=All&level%5Bmin%5D=150&level%5Bmax%5D=200

and the you have 50 magic att RA set bonus versus 15 magic attack AB set bonus.

and With the attack speed azan + 1 gives you speed cap RA comes with 40% boss and you guys said say you pot Ele staff for % boss but you can do the same for fafnir so what ever pot ele would get add that for fafnir 40% + W/e boss neb u get if u get one since pdr system changes and 100% pdr isnt worth as much as it used to b.

also this depends on the scrolls you use but fafnir has 1 extra scroll slot for however much that accounts for differs depending on scrolls used.

i think ill just save up for fafnir or wait till its possible to kill chaos vellum then farm him

@Improvement The armour is supposed to have 5% pdr/mdr on it as well but I don't think it works with the old equip UI/without additional options.
We just have to wait and see if Nexon remembers to add the stats on in Unlimited.

@Improvement
KMST versions were lower at first, maybe that's what you're thinking of.

@ClassOf12: Totes my b. @_@ A mixture of dyslexia and looking at the wrong attack, I suppose D:

[quote=Improvement]Our Fafnir wand, staff, and shining rod also have higher base magic attack than theirs, breaking 200 whereas their set is clean in the 19x range.[/quote]

http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=64110
They have the same m attack

[quote=juarmo]You're forgetting that while your sacrificing 20% boss worth of inner ability to hit speed cap on a fafnir, your sacrificing 60% boss worth of set effects and additional options to hit speed cap without inner ability on an ele staff, say you had an ele staff and a fafnir with equal attack, ele has a speed of 4 while fafnir has a speed of 8, now post hypers, Bams will have constant body boost, which, when coupled with booster's +2 and aya's +1, BB's +2 will grant a constant -5 speed, so 4 - 5 =-1 which becomes 2, and fafnir's speed becomes 8-5=3, fafnir has built in 30% boss and gets another 30% boss from RA set bonus, for a total of 60%, so now the ele has 0%boss and 2 speed while fafnir has 60% boss and 3 speed, now lets say your inner ability has one line of boss damage for ele and 1 line of attack speed for fafnir, that's +20% boss and -1 attack speed respectively, so now you've got a 20% boss and 2 speed on your ele, but youve got 60% boss and 2 speed from fafnir, meaning sacrificing 1 line of 20% boss inner ability for hitting the speed cap, makes you better off overall. Who cares about losing 20% boss to gain 60% AND maintain the speed? Its actually BETTER to lose your % boss inner ability in exchange for +1 speed, because you're doing it to maintain your speed using a weapon whose power CLEARLY makes up for the loss in %boss, and my math proves it.[/quote]

Okay hunny, you're a little misinformed. Our Fafnir weapons don't have inherent boss damage like the KMS version. They have 40% boss on their weapons, some PDR on their other Root Abyss items, and the set effect will only give them 9% total damage when they wear the whole thing. Our Fafnir wand, staff, and shining rod also have higher base magic attack than theirs, breaking 200 whereas their set is clean in the 19x range. Therefore the only %boss you're missing out on by going to the Elemental Staff is the 30% of the 4 set Root Abyss. Your math can't prove anything when you've been given the wrong information to start with.

[quote=Ecyz]Please don't be talking about the Element Bonus, cause BaMs are neutral...[/quote]

never play BaM so didn't know that, was assuming they was since i/l f/p mage, bishop, evan gets it

Fanfir if you're going for the full set, of course. Otherwise i'd stick with ele. Also, if your ele staff is already well scrolled I would just stick with it.

[quote=epikdeath]@Ravens: As you get more %boss/%total, they give less of a total %damage boost than from when you had 0%boss whereas attack speed is a final multiplier
think of it this way: you have 100k range, 200%boss. the damage you do on bosses is that of a person with 300k range. Getting another 30%boss, which brings you to 230%boss, you will doing damage of a person with a 330k range.
Now with 200%boss and 1 attack speed and 100k range, You'd be doing the damage of a person with 300k range. However, 1 attack speed is a 10% damage final multiplier. Now with that in mind, your dpm would be 10% higher overall. Your dpm would that of a person with a 330k range. See where I'm going with this? :o Assuming you can get high %boss and %total from skills and such, attack speed>%boss
Not to mention more attack speed means higher recovery speed from drain, ability to move out of attack's ways in magnus/RA (attack speed seriously makes a huge difference here imo. With +1attack speed inner ability, not only does it make it easier to move out of the way of an attack quicker, but I can also do things like land an extra hit on vellum before he goes underground)[/quote]

You're forgetting that while your sacrificing 20% boss worth of inner ability to hit speed cap on a fafnir, your sacrificing 60% boss worth of set effects and additional options to hit speed cap without inner ability on an ele staff, say you had an ele staff and a fafnir with equal attack, ele has a speed of 4 while fafnir has a speed of 8, now post hypers, Bams will have constant body boost, which, when coupled with booster's +2 and aya's +1, BB's +2 will grant a constant -5 speed, so 4 - 5 =-1 which becomes 2, and fafnir's speed becomes 8-5=3, fafnir has built in 30% boss and gets another 30% boss from RA set bonus, for a total of 60%, so now the ele has 0%boss and 2 speed while fafnir has 60% boss and 3 speed, now lets say your inner ability has one line of boss damage for ele and 1 line of attack speed for fafnir, that's +20% boss and -1 attack speed respectively, so now you've got a 20% boss and 2 speed on your ele, but youve got 60% boss and 2 speed from fafnir, meaning sacrificing 1 line of 20% boss inner ability for hitting the speed cap, makes you better off overall. Who cares about losing 20% boss to gain 60% AND maintain the speed? Its actually BETTER to lose your % boss inner ability in exchange for +1 speed, because you're doing it to maintain your speed using a weapon whose power CLEARLY makes up for the loss in %boss, and my math proves it.

@Ravens: As you get more %boss/%total, they give less of a total %damage boost than from when you had 0%boss whereas attack speed is a final multiplier
think of it this way: you have 100k range, 200%boss. the damage you do on bosses is that of a person with 300k range. Getting another 30%boss, which brings you to 230%boss, you will doing damage of a person with a 330k range.
Now with 200%boss and 1 attack speed and 100k range, You'd be doing the damage of a person with 300k range. However, 1 attack speed is a 10% damage final multiplier. Now with that in mind, your dpm would be 10% higher overall. Your dpm would that of a person with a 330k range. See where I'm going with this? :o Assuming you can get high %boss and %total from skills and such, attack speed>%boss
Not to mention more attack speed means higher recovery speed from drain, ability to move out of attack's ways in magnus/RA (attack speed seriously makes a huge difference here imo. With +1attack speed inner ability, not only does it make it easier to move out of the way of an attack quicker, but I can also do things like land an extra hit on vellum before he goes underground)

[quote=bubblecup118]do note that ele staff have those bonus.[/quote]
Please don't be talking about the Element Bonus, cause BaMs are neutral...

@Mystelteinn

The Fafnir staff and E-staff 5-8 can both reach 255 magic attack before EEing it I believe with +9 magic attack scrolls. You cannot scroll past 255 attack/magic attack without EE's so they both have the same potential magic attack.

[quote=EyePdaily]@bubtheman:
AYA is +1 attack speed but in BB it's +2. Union Aura (hyper skill) lengthens the duration of BB (dark and yellow 30 seconds; blue 5 seconds) so it lasts as long as the cooldown thus allowing you to have the +2 attack speed almost the entire time. You'll have to wait for the cooldown if you die or something though.

AYA does not stack with YA if that's what some of you were thinking. It's an upgrade.[/quote]

Actually, YA (and AYA) are +1 speed and BB is +2 speed ON TOP of YA (and AYA), thus effectively giving you +3 speed when in BB.

Combine that with booster, and you got a total of +5 speed, thus taking a Slow (8) weapon (almost all staves), to Faster (3), which is 1 measly step away from Fastest (2).

OT : As for using a Fafnir staff, it might actually be a good idea. The exact difference of damage from the loss of 1 speed step differs greatly depending on which speed (between 3-4 or 7-8), but if I remember correctly, your damage has to compensate about 6-8% for the difference between Fastest (2) and Faster (3). Since Fafnir staff starts out with 204 MATK, and that an E-staff 5-8 starts out with 176 or so, that's a whopping 28 matk right there, and that's not even assuming the difference will grow if you're ever AEE'ing it.

Good luck finding one though.

@bubtheman:
AYA is +1 attack speed but in BB it's +2. Union Aura (hyper skill) lengthens the duration of BB (dark and yellow 30 seconds; blue 5 seconds) so it lasts as long as the cooldown thus allowing you to have the +2 attack speed almost the entire time. You'll have to wait for the cooldown if you die or something though.

AYA does not stack with YA if that's what some of you were thinking. It's an upgrade.

You'd need either decent SI or the attack speed inner ability to hit speed cap with a Slow(8) staff. You don't need both.

[quote=EyePdaily]It's possible to cap speed even with a slow staff. You'll still need decent si and inner ability attack speed +1 though.
And after hypers they'll be able to be on BB all the time.

Slow (8): Booster(2) + BB(2) + Decent SI(1) + Inner ability(1) = Fast(2)[/quote]

Doesn't AYA already give a +1 to attacking speed? So you would just need the inner or Decent SI? Or am I missing something o.o

okay thanks

@EyePdaily: yes, I know it's possible to reach speed cap, but it's definitely not easy. ( I have a bam myself )
speed inner ability is extremely hard to get, and you have to sacrifice possibility of getting %boss too to get speed
then, decent si isn't exactly cheap either, so I think for most bams, it's still better to go estaff.

[quote=epikdeath]attack speed does matter. each stage of attack speed is still equivalent to a 10% final increase on DPM on top of all the boss damage and total damage calc'd in first
I would still say estaff is better, unless you could get decent si and the other things needed for the fafnir staff to reach at least 3 speed.[/quote]

It's possible to cap speed even with a slow staff. You'll still need decent si and inner ability attack speed +1 though.
And after hypers they'll be able to be on BB all the time.

Slow (8): Booster(2) + BB(2) + Decent SI(1) + Inner ability(1) = Fast(2)

@epikdeath: I thought that with Body Boost your attack speed is capped? or are you still 1 below?

[quote=Razmos]Attack speed is irrelevant after Hypers. Use the strongest staff you can find. If the Fafnir staff is stronger, use it.[/quote]
attack speed does matter. each stage of attack speed is still equivalent to a 10% final increase on DPM on top of all the boss damage and total damage calc'd in first
I would still say estaff is better, unless you could get decent si and the other things needed for the fafnir staff to reach at least 3 speed.

Attack speed is irrelevant after Hypers. Use the strongest staff you can find. If the Fafnir staff is stronger, use it.

do note that ele staff have those bonus.