General

[quote=lKingAura] I dont see any f/p nor i/l with a 1vs1 skill =o.[/quote]
fp mages skills are strong enough to function as both mobbing and 1v1. DoTs and ME you know...

Evan is the best mage till dmg cap. then fp is the best. bam are bad. got mine to 170 and compared dmg. its less than evan's even before elemental reset.

wut to you, too

wut.
post2short

@mark24: as I said, if you're going to use Fastest 2 for F/P (which isn't natural without SI or DSI + Green), then BaM can go <weapon speed 2. it's much more natural to compare with Fast 4 for F/P, which is 773m/s. and for the last time, that 20hits/s on F/P is a bloated number because it includes DoT lines. [i]very[/i] bloated if you look at the set up JoeTang uses (which uses every DoT, and thus not even all Paralyze spam, further reducing true hits/s)
and there no such thing as "max range" (2m~2m is purely visual unless you're telling me 2m*2.61*1.5*1.2*4(throwing on random >300% Boss) = 37.6m is greater than 50m. BaM's hits/s is less bloated than F/P's so BaM > F/P until F/P increases their dmg much more than neede for 50m on attacks (unless visual range caps DoT dmg).
also, don't forget BaM has a higher cap with Hypers than F/P. when factored with higher hits/s on attacks, F/P [i]really[/i] needs to increase their dmg first

[quote=lKingAura]changing the topic much? XDDD you said hits related to dmg not dps, more hits is more dps thats a fact and that has been my point all this time you just said it so that you wouldnt sound like a moron... ops, too late. the 3x aura is called grand light aura and if i dont die how is it a gimmick? (unlike someone who claims he has 90% of the time 100% stance but cant handle most of the bosses cause he dies LOL)

@dablunt I dont remember @GoXDS telling you the actual hits like @mark24 did, if you wanna take part on the simple minded haters then at least get a decent argument.[/quote]

when fp has high enough range paralyze does more dps than mist eruption. if you at max range and using paralyze you do more hits per second and have more dmg per second than bam(adding up all hits) and that's without elemental reset.

@dablunt not sure why you are thanking @goxds. Pretty sure he doesn't know max range fp does more dps than max dmg bam and has elemental reset.

fp
20.63hits/s 851.48mil/s
bam
14.24hits/s 818.45mil/s

there's the numbers...

@GoXDS thanks for the information and @lKingAura @mark24 should just kiss and make up

[quote=lKingAura]hits per second does not relates to max dmg omg is this really soo hard to explain? more hits = better? no? ok look, Ihave 2 apples and you have 2, i take 1 from you who has more apples? no? not yet? and your survivavility its not comparable. your stace "90%" of the chance is but a gimmick, when you die you are suffering form the cd and if you revive just when its done and die again you need to wait it again. you can not rely on something you can not control specially if you will die that much because your class was not made to be bulky. 25k+ hp? i have 60k, 70k+ mp? i have 80k. max def? i have cap def, magic def and very high both magical and weapon avoidace... did i mention my 93% dodge rate? and we can agree to just take out the efects of the cards as we can both get them. also i wasnt using the BaMs future revamp idea i was saying that all this is gonna be pointless soon. it is not now, but it will soon.[/quote]

this guy doesn't understand how hits per second relates to dps, says he has 80k mp like he has magic guard. this is dumb because you are just ignoring facts can't even comprehend the simple information I gave to you, try clicking on the links -___-. I even gave you the numbers in case you couldn't handle that. You say mihile link is a gimmick because it's cd but 3x aura that is bams main buff isn't? how does a revamp that's not going to hit gms for over 8months probably longer make all this pointless soon? a year is soon to you? wow, you are one of those people who can't admit they are wrong.

[quote=lKingAura]wow you keep posting the same link over and over again and dont care to read what i said... f/p dmg is higher, all dps charts say so and i said that a long time ago however their potential to be the best mages are no better than those ones who has more surviavility and hits more per second which was always the argument. you are just leading this back to who does more dmg. And they are getting revamped because they got locked in kms.[/quote]

hits per second only relates to maximum dmg that can be dealt by the class. fp do more dps if both classes have max range. do not even mention a revamp that is not even relevant. we are comparing 2 classes in their current state not what ifs and what might happen in a year.

fp survivability is fine. with decent hb my fp will have 25k+ hp and around 70k+ mp and nearly max def. Ive also got dmg reduction from zero link skill and bam char card.(if bams card works) also have stance up more than 90% of the time from my mhile link + buff mastery.

@mark24 also if you're gonna use Fast 2 on F/P (I was using Teleport Fast 4), then BaM can go Attack speed 0 for all I care. also he said "soon" since Resistance are locked in KMS, suggesting revamp at some point

@mark24: *sigh* as I've said, the hits/s on that is bloated from DoT which are not worth the same as hits from normal attacks. ~10hits/s bloated up to 20hits/s from DoT
even better, F/P no ME, max dmg according to JoeTang: 772.3m/s
BaM: 873.58m/s
neither Adv Mage nor BaM care about being hit at all outside of %HP. we're too bulky (BaM cause 50k+ HP while everyone else has MG). for %HP, BaM have Drain which is a plus at pot lock. thus Blue Aura point is moot. Dojo's hardly even the best place to test out overall dmg since it's completely different from everywhere else.

DOJO LINK. find a bam with a better time in gms.

http://www.basilmarket.com/MapleStory-Lvl_211_F_P___5_15_in_Dojo-Other-Screen-229565.html

bams haven't even been revamped in kms yet. bams aren't getting revamped in at least 7months+ you troll.

@goxds
@lkingaura

can you guys not read or something? I gave you the link. look at max dmg possible per second on the dps chart... fp has more with paralyze hitting cap than bam does. that is without boss resistance.

did you not see the dojo link? how many bam you see with 5:15 dojo time? also idk what your talking about what the cd on 3x aura and blue aura not distributing full dmg solo are major cons.

fp
20.63hits per second
851.48 mill per second

bam
14.24 hits per second
818.45 mill per second

http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=49311&title=Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil)

@lKingAura Lol I think the part you edited in shouldn't be directed at me but mark24, yea? I was supporting your argument.

[quote=mark24]hitting dmg cap with paralyze fp do more damage than a bam hitting cap... fp has 21 hits per second when using paralyze as its attacking skill. and some bosses everyone dies. (magnus, ra, arkarium)[/quote]

very likely to die doesn't mean they [i]will[/i] die. Magnus is the most likely so let's move on. RA? you really shouldn't be dying. Ark? his screen crack can be avoided. difficult, but possible. and even then uncommon before reaching the end. also to just show a bit of comparison for hits/s.
BaM: FB - 810ms, BKB - 240ms. Fast 2 let's assume. 1050ms total -> 810ms total to use these 2 skills, 6+7 lines of dmg. 13hits/810ms = 16 hits/s excluding buffing and Finisher and possibly DoT
F/P: simplified, we'll use only Paralyze. Paralyze - 800 ms. 800 ms -> 720 ms. 7 hits/720ms = 9.722 hits/s excluding DoT and Buffing or Meteor
as an extra since you seem to diss I/L so much. I/L: FO 1530 ms -> 1350 ms. cd of 5 s so we can fit in 5 CLs in that time (CL - 780 ms -> 690 ms. x5 = 3.45s) FO lasts the full 3.5 seconds, producing a line/210ms so 3.5s/210ms = 16.67 lines. CL grants 5*7 lines = 35 lines. 51.67lines/5 seconds = 10.334 hits/s not factoring I/L's much higher Blizzard proc opportunities compared to F/P.

[quote=lKingAura]First of all, BaM very rare they die, maybe 2nd to the best survivavility in the game shadowed y paladins, with massive HP that can endure some dmg reflections and 1 hit K.O that caps at 50k hp, and %hp dmg reductions with party shield (-10% dmg reduction) and his own card (-5%) and the ones on our blue aura not to mention we can get 93% dodge rate with decent C.O AND we only need to buff 3 times, which of course i have those 3 buffs on my pets so i only need to re cast grand light aura like once every 2 minutes and if there is a case in which i die then the odds are that the grand light aura will already be ready to use again. and last but not least while we suffer from the lack of elemental reset let me remind you that cap is still possible, so at cap dmg f/p mages wont be better than us at dps as they [b]do lower hits per second than bams[/b]. that is all.[/quote]

hitting dmg cap with paralyze fp do more damage than a bam hitting cap... fp has 21 hits per second when using paralyze as its attacking skill. and some bosses everyone dies. (magnus, ra, arkarium)

@mark24 ofc I'm using the hits/s linked to the one with higher DPS ._. why use the numbers for no ME when most people won't be spamming only Paralyze? also, appending what @lKingAura said, at cap, F/P's hits/s is bloated by DoT, which may or may not be worth the same as normal attacks. so even if at cap Paralyze spam (which actually still stacks DoT from other skills so not pure Paralyze), is ~20 hits/s, because most of those lines/s are DoT, which are not 50m. comparatively, BaM's ~14.88 hits/s are almost all actual 50m lines. unless ofc you fund yourself enough to make the DoT comparable, which is much higher than simply 50m on Paralyze

I also don't see the point of emphasizing 50m case so much since most players cannot reach that level.

@lKingAura: I think you are mixing it up... The one you are talking about it Def ignore %

The one I am talking about is the Element of our attacks. i/l, f/p, Evan, paladin, or some other ones out there all have specific Elements; being ice, fire, etc.

All others jobs has Physical element. And Bosses such as Vellum, Queen, Cygnus, etc. has Physical resistance. So if you never noticed, your damage gets cut in half when fighting those with physical resistance. But with Elemental Decrease, you will have no elements on your attacks anymore. This allows you to do your full damage.

Reason, why I am throwing it out there is because, assuming all the jobs can do the same damage total per attack, etc.That elemental decrease will help you do 2x than those other jobs that doesnt have it.

And battle mage is one of the many not having that Elemental Decrease skill.

Edit: oh sorry, it seems the whole thread was talking about your mis-understanding. Just throwing it out there, unless you have trillions of mesos, f/p, and most of the jobs with elemntal Decrease can instantly out damage BaM just because of the elemental decrease. Reasoning why Evan, Adv Mage, and Paladins are very worth it to make since you dont need as much range to hit the same as other without it.

[quote=lKingAura]sorry but i fail to see how f/p are faster ditching out dmg than bam of kanna.[/quote]

You don't know anything about explorer mages... we have buff mastery, mihile link is up like 90% of the time with no mech card...

bam main buff also has a cd that stays on cd when you die(buff freezer is 200 nx per death/why I'm not a bam right now), and blue aura doesn't work solo like it does in a party.

fp does more dmg until eruption is at dmg cap, then bam starts to outdamage fp until paralyze is hitting a certain amount. after paralyze gets to a certain amount of dmg fp do more dmg. and that's without boss resistances, and assuming bam doesn't die and lose its 3x aura buff.

http://www.basilmarket.com/MapleStory-Lvl_211_F_P___5_15_in_Dojo-Other-Screen-229565.html

@GoXDS
http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=49311&title=Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil)

Look at the hyper/no mist eruption fp numbers... stop giving out false information. fp is 21hits per second using paralyze and more max dps than any mage.

3x aura cd is the worst idea ever... almost as bad as the no dmg keydown bind skill and hyper il mage have.
bam will get wrekt by any boss that kills you. bam is weaksauce without 3x aura.

if Joetang's numbers are to be believed, hits/s: Kanna (20) > BaM (14.88) > F/P (12.63) while DPS F/P >> BaM >> Kanna (factoring Elemental Reset. if not, BaM > F/P >> Kanna). however, note that F/P's hit/s are bloated to include DoT as a hit
@lKingAura @redherring

@lKingAura: 110*1.65=181.5>180. Throw in Empathy, 192.5. Throw in 20% Buff Duration, 214.5. I can't think of a single major boss where stance makes much of a difference at all, and dying should be a pretty infrequent occurrence anyway.

A F/P can keep up with BaMs and Kannas in hits per second. In addition to Paralyze, Ignite, Inferno Aura, Ifrit, DoTs, and Meteor Shower all proc at a fairly decent rate.

My point about Resistance was that a F/P is pretty comparable to a BaM in that area, not better. Resistance pots grant an additional 30%, bringing BaMs to max and F/Ps to 85%. With the additional effect from Elemental Adaptation, both are effectively immune to status effects that can be resisted.

Edit: I really should not have taken your information at face value. BaMs have much less in the way of Status Resist than 80% - what hole did you pull that number from?

@lKingAura Battle Mage's Blue Aura skill gives a passive 20% elemental [b]resistance[/b] that's completely [b]different[/b] from elemental [b]decrease/reset[/b]. Elemental resistance means when a boss attacks you with a fire,ice,lighting, or some form of element attribute attack you take X% less damage cuz of ele resistance. Whereas elemental decrease/reset removes all elemental properties of your skills so you don't lose 50% damage on bosses like Hilla,CRA,Empress.

Basically, Elemental resistance is crap at end game bosses

@lKingAura: Lol, yea I can concede to that. whether or not it fully makes up for the disadvantage is a bit more complicated cause Aarchmages still have AA (40% as well), Amp, Extreme Magic (1.5x or +50% not sure and 1.2x respectively), and Infinity (1.33x averaged over whole time with only Buff Mastery). don't wanna verify one way or the other cause so much to account for
EDIT: as for other comments that I just read, with Lvl 2 Mihile, 50% from Buff Mastery and another 14% somewhere else like B Mech and max Empathy or just S Mech makes it perm. also, just how useful is Status resist recently, really. dam bosses just outright ignore it. even when I have Elemental adapting (which is 100% block when it's up), Gollux, Magnus-besides Zombify but w/e to that, RA, etc, etc all Ignore it completely T_T Hero's Will doesn't even work on most of these and the only one that can be blocked is Seduce and hardly anything Seduces now

[quote=lKingAura]And while BaMs cant out dmg a f/p, they can out smart them with 100% stance and faster atks + a maximum of 80% status resistance[/quote]

F/P have 100% stance with the link, aren't stuck in a long animation while attacking, and have 55% status resistance with just links and maxed willpower - and that's not even including Elemental Adaptation's active effect.

[quote=lKingAura]what i meant to say is that our 1vs1 skill makes us stronger, gives us more critical, maximum critical and more dmg (40% more) not just because it is 1vs1 lmao. so lets say we loose 50% dmg because of elemental resistance, we gain that back with that new skill we got but also we still have the advantage that we can add more elemental resistance from maxng out insight and we do have 20% passive resistance from one skill.[/quote]

That's completely wrong, the 50% dmg loss from elements isn't the same as the 40% from battle rage.
e.g. I hit 11m on bosses with no elemental resistance, without battle rage.
On bosses with elemental resistance, even when using battle rage, I hit like what.. 7-8m?

@lKingAura an attack doesn't necessarily have to be 1v1 to be a good bossing attack. most players can't hit cap so isn't the full vs half still a valid argument?
@mark24 I don't even know why you have 2 I/L and have one as your "main" but anyways. Reset doesn't Change Element -> Neutral, it changes X -> Null. meaning Illusion is affected. unless you want to tell me BaM are affected by Resist even though their attacks are neutral (no, they're not Dark)? while other mages with Reset aren't?

Well all of my other mages kill Hilla much faster than my BaM. Because classes with elemental always receive benefit from bosses, they can do bosses much easier compared to others that do not have. Also, illusion does get affected with elemental or else no one would use illusion for bossing. I can guarantee that.

@Mark24, why would it not affect Illusion?

[quote=mark24]still half dmg vs full dmg... strong advantage for fp and il. too bad il is weaksauce. evan have reset but it doesn't even affect illusion, so they do half dmg too.[/quote]

i'm pretty sure it help illusion on bossing

[quote=lKingAura]I think many people forget that we have "Battle Rage", also maxing out insight gives elemental ignore % [/quote]

still half dmg vs full dmg... strong advantage for fp and il. too bad il is weaksauce. evan have reset but it doesn't even affect illusion, so they do half dmg too.

Just throwing it out there, *talks in very low voice* "Elemental Decrease"

@dablunt: like I said, why hits/s? that by itself is utterly useless if you're not gonna cap ._.
it's even more useless using hits/s as a comparison between classes.

If you're ultra sub-par, hits/sec don't matter at all since you won't even be close to touching the cap.

@mattrimkevx so basically your saying its about 8,480% damage/3 seconds (assuming FB = 240%X6 and SS=400%X7) not counting PDR,Crit damage, %boss. Thanks, that was way better than the first post.
~ Neato

I don't know any of the specifics, but when I'm doing quick calculations for how long it'll take me to kill a boss I generally take it as 2 FB+SS combos in 3 seconds, and that 70% of the damage comes from SS. And because SS hits with 7 lines I know that 1 line of SS is 10% of my damage per combo. Also making sure to look up the boss's health before the run. So after seeing how much damage I do per line to the boss, I can calculate how long it'll take me to kill him.

@GoXDS cuz it gives me a great comparison as to what class I could potentially fund (with my ultra sub-par funding) in the future. Im only asking for the sake of future bossing. Thanks for not answering the question though <3

why does hits per second really matter unless you're telling me you can hit cap?