General

[quote=dreanburster]Hello fellow Angelic Busters!
Here are my two main concerns for our class:
> The amount of lines we hit are holding us back.
> The limitation on usable NX items for our transformation.
[/quote]
I couldn't come up with a better, more concise list than that. Hits at both things that annoy me about AB's...dmg limitation because of too few but overpowered lines...and lack of meaningful NX options playing into the storyline of the character itself.

An easy and very nice fix for the NX problem, in my opinion, would be to simply give us the option to fully dress up both of our forms. That would be epic.

More balanced option between those two is probably the one that soul seekers will automatically fly away when they find a new target or else, they are going to orbit around you. Storing soul seekers give more power and I fear people will abuse of this by stacking orbs and use them when it's the right time. It gives more power by optimizing your dpm.

@siaty
@chompromp

I like the ideas you both came up with, but out of the two, which would be more "balanced"? I personally like the one where the Seekers come back to you if they find no target and automatically fly away once they find a new target within the Soul Seeker range, but I'd like to hear your opinions.

@chompromp: The difference here is the fact you are "storing" your soul seeker while mines are orbiting around you until it find a target. It's similar, but can make a difference after all.

[quote=siaty]The concept I had behind the orbit soul seeker wouldn't use a store buff. With a fair limit of around 6 orbs around you that you can stack up if there is no monster or I-Frame animation around you, I don't think an AB should decide when to release the soul seeker in revenge. The goal of this is to make AB bossing viable for certain bosses like CRA, Hell Gollux and Dorothy. I think a mix up of soul seeker and trinity would make AB even more fun to play.[/quote]

I think our ideas are very similar. Your idea has a cap of 6 orbs, and my idea has a cap of 7. During iframes or whatever, you would propose ABs to throw empty Soul Seekers that orbit the player. That's not any different from my idea of just allowing a maximum of 7 orbs to be saved and then released when the AB attacks again. Your idea would release the orbs when the AB uses Soul Seeker again or otherwise continue attacking. Both of our ideas would encourage ABs to use both skills.

[quote=chompromp]I like the orbiting orb idea, as long as it doesn't lag too much LOL.

It should cap at a maximum of 7 orbs stored, ready to be used when you press Soul Seeker again. I'm thinking that there should be a skill icon in the top right corner that looks kind of like a pink and/or yellow ring with 7 orbs in it. Like Trinity stacks, it should have a number from 2-7 on it, telling you how many orbs are stored since Seeker couldn't find a target.

There should be some type of effect around the character to indicate that Soul Seekers are stored, but I don't think it should be too flashy if we're trying to get away from only using compacts. I'm thinking since we have easily visible alerts for FAIL and RECHARGE, they should add one in a different color called STORE (or SAVE) if Soul Seeker cannot find a target. Then once you use the stored orbs, a RELEASE alert should be visible

To reward players for not just mindlessly spamming Soul Seeker because orbs are now stored if they have no target, these stored orbs are not stored again if you misfire and throw them when the boss is in i-frames/cannot be hit. And since you have to release the stored orbs before you can use regular Soul Seeker again, you will have thrown nothing for that 1 misfire. It's a slight penalty that I think will make AB gameplay a bit more interesting

If you want to apply this to Soul Seeker Expert, I guess this ring icon will replace the generic and boring SSE icon once orbs are stored. Though I'm not sure how this store-and-release system can be applied to Soul Seeker Expert generated orbs though...I guess orbs should be automatically released on the next attack skill (besides Pink Pummel) instead of just Soul Seeker then.

Soul Seeker Expert may need to be changed to triggering 2 orbs if these Soul Seeker changes end up being too good.

Yep, 2250% spread out over 3 lines (750% each) after the Extra Strike hyper adds the 3rd line. After Reboot, Trinity will be 2 lines without the Extra Strike hyper, but only at 1600% at 2 lines of 800%. This should be changed to as Trinity is now - 1900% at 2 lines of 950%. This will allow for a more natural progression after adding the 3rd line with Extra Strike.

So, to summarize my thoughts on Soul Seeker:

The hyper Soul Seeker - Recharge Up should be changed to Soul Seeker - Extra Orb. It will add 1 additional Soul Seeker orb, at the same % Soul Seeker is at now - 320%.

Nothing else needs to be changed, unless Soul Seeker can be affected by attack speed now. If it can, then reduce the max number of orbs regenerated from 7 to 5.[/quote]

The concept I had behind the orbit soul seeker wouldn't use a store buff. With a fair limit of around 6 orbs around you that you can stack up if there is no monster or I-Frame animation around you, I don't think an AB should decide when to release the soul seeker in revenge. The goal of this is to make AB bossing viable for certain bosses like CRA, Hell Gollux and Dorothy. I think a mix up of soul seeker and trinity would make AB even more fun to play.

[quote=dreanburster]
-snip-
[/quote]

I like the orbiting orb idea, as long as it doesn't lag too much LOL.

It should cap at a maximum of 7 orbs stored, ready to be used when you press Soul Seeker again. I'm thinking that there should be a skill icon in the top right corner that looks kind of like a pink and/or yellow ring with 7 orbs in it. Like Trinity stacks, it should have a number from 2-7 on it, telling you how many orbs are stored since Seeker couldn't find a target.

There should be some type of effect around the character to indicate that Soul Seekers are stored, but I don't think it should be too flashy if we're trying to get away from only using compacts. I'm thinking since we have easily visible alerts for FAIL and RECHARGE, they should add one in a different color called STORE (or SAVE) if Soul Seeker cannot find a target. Then once you use the stored orbs, a RELEASE alert should be visible

To reward players for not just mindlessly spamming Soul Seeker because orbs are now stored if they have no target, these stored orbs are not stored again if you misfire and throw them when the boss is in i-frames/cannot be hit. And since you have to release the stored orbs before you can use regular Soul Seeker again, you will have thrown nothing for that 1 misfire. It's a slight penalty that I think will make AB gameplay a bit more interesting

If you want to apply this to Soul Seeker Expert, I guess this ring icon will replace the generic and boring SSE icon once orbs are stored. Though I'm not sure how this store-and-release system can be applied to Soul Seeker Expert generated orbs though...I guess orbs should be automatically released on the next attack skill (besides Pink Pummel) instead of just Soul Seeker then.

Soul Seeker Expert may need to be changed to triggering 2 orbs if these Soul Seeker changes end up being too good.

Yep, 2250% spread out over 3 lines (750% each) after the Extra Strike hyper adds the 3rd line. After Reboot, Trinity will be 2 lines without the Extra Strike hyper, but only at 1600% at 2 lines of 800%. This should be changed to as Trinity is now - 1900% at 2 lines of 950%. This will allow for a more natural progression after adding the 3rd line with Extra Strike.

So, to summarize my thoughts on Soul Seeker:

The hyper Soul Seeker - Recharge Up should be changed to Soul Seeker - Extra Orb. It will add 1 additional Soul Seeker orb, at the same % Soul Seeker is at now - 320%.

Nothing else needs to be changed, unless Soul Seeker can be affected by attack speed now. If it can, then reduce the max number of orbs regenerated from 7 to 5.

Sorry for the late response everyone, I've been really tired lately.

Anyways, I recently had a conversation with the Jett Councillor @siaty , who brought up a very interesting concept for making Soul Seeker effective against i-frame bosses. He mentioned that if there was no monster near you, the Soul Seeker orb should orbit around you, with a limit of course. I thought it was a good idea in making Soul Seeker viable against i-frame bosses as well, and that the orbit effect should be added to Soul Seeker Expert. What are everyone's thoughts on this, and how should it be changed, if anyone has any ideas.

[quote=mudkippiratez]-snip-[/quote]
Does Demon Slayer really have a 2 speed booster at first job? If that's the case, then I don't see why we don't have that also. I do agree that the lack of attack speed is holding us back greatly.

I also do agree that Trinity needs to be a tad stronger. Also I forgot to ask, adding a Trinity - Overwhelm, I assume you mean we keep two lines and it's applied to both? I agree with that as well.

An additional orb hyper sounds good as well.

[quote=ailoki808]-snip-[/quote]
Attack speed would be a bit busted on both hyper buffs. I don't think we need to lower the orb recreation for Seeker, that would hinder us so much.

[quote=anthoy84]-snip-[/quote]
Seeker really does need to be affected by attack speed. Also for a Trinity cancel, what do you suggest for that? I think we should be able to move immediately after any Trinity cast.

[quote=chompromp]-snip-[/quote]
I will definitely bring up extra lines for mobbing skills. That's something that slows our training at high leveled placed.

For Trinity, how much total % should each Trinity cast do? Your suggestion for post-Reboot Trinity is 2250% per cast. I think that suggestion in combination with the previously stayed Trinity - Overwhelm would be great for us.

I will address the issue with the stacks.

For all the Soul Seeker suggestions you stated, which one in your opinion is the most ideal one to be possibly implemented?

[quote=matheusltp]-snip-[/quote]
Our mobbing skills should have at least 3 lines at minimum, so we can train at higher leveled training grounds slightly more efficiently.

Definitely Celestial Roar needs at least 4 lines! Thats one of our major problems here, we do need to buff up our mobbling skills, and i think we need a little more of att speed as well. And i'm kinda upset by the fact that they will raise the delay of Soul Seeker, I don't see the point of buffing it and increase the delay for it... And also, I would rather lines than damage cap because this would only benefit funded players like someone just said in the topic OR they can raise the damage % of our main skills and keep the 1 line idea.

[quote=dreanburster]
-snip-
[/quote]

Most of the changes to mobbing skills getting more lines and aesthetic changes I think should be considered regardless. You said you wanted some actual numbers as to the changes for Trinity and Soul Seeker.

For Trinity:
Someone suggested 4 lines at 500% as a possible Trinity update.

I think it's a bit low. 4 lines at 550% with nothing else changed should be okay.

That same person also suggested that you could alternatively change Trinity - Recharge Up to Trinity - Overwhelm, with a 30M damage cap increase on Trinity only.

Since you would have to reallocate the SP that would be used on Trinity - Reinforce to Trinity - Overwhelm and that 30M is quite a damage cap increase, I think the damage % should be increased more. The Trinity - Extra Attack hyper should give us a similar damage boost. It currently is 1600%/1 line -> 950%/2 lines, which is about a 20% damage increase. 650%/3 lines after Reboot should be increased to 750%/3 lines if the Overwhelm suggestion goes through. It would benefit players who aren't capping (and many currently capping ABs on harder bosses).

The Trinity stacks issue I hope you'll bring up eventually.

About attack speed - I support the suggestions already made. Adding it to both Final Contract and Pretty Exaltation seems a bit overkill though.

As for Soul Seeker - a solution to the current iframe problem would be nice - I proposed one kind of solution, and someone else in the thread suggested another.

As for Soul Seeker orbs - 3 orbs with the current orb regeneration cap is sufficient. 4 is too much, and limiting the regenerations that severely might actually hurt it.

If Soul Seeker can be modified so that attack speed can affect it, then with 3 orbs the regeneration cap needs to be limited to ~4-5. If it remains at 2 orbs with the attack speed update the cap shouldn't be touched.

As far as damage % goes - 3 orbs should remain at 320%, as it isn't terribly strong at the moment. If the increase of orbs from 2 to 3 is because of a hyper, then the damage % should be increased slightly as you would lose the Soul Seeker - Reinforce hyper. 320 -> 360%.

If it remains at 2 orbs maybe a larger buff to it is deserved.
320 -> 400%.

The thing I'd want the most would be Attack Speed actually affecting the casting speed of Soul Seeker. The class in itself is too clunky with Trinity not having any sort of cancel (also Recharge lag gets me killed 9/10 times), and Soul Seeker being casted slow as heck.

@mudkippiratez so... if we capped orb recreation/remake to 2-4 times per orb, would that increase our chances of raising Soul Seeker back to 4 orbs per cast? Would really help with reapplying the orbs onto i-frame bosses without approaching theoretical madness. We could slap the orb remake cap on the skill itself, and the buff of extra orbs per cast can be a hyper to replace the SS hyper-recharge.

I second @mudkippiratez changes to Trinity-hyper:recharge --> Trinity-hyper:overwhelm

Still preaching +1 attack speed on Pretty Exaltation. +1 attack speed on Final Contract for good measure >.>

[quote=dreanburster]-snip-[/quote]
Everything I mentioned in my post earlier are what I believe should change.

Here are the two main things I feel [b]should[/b] be changed, if any:
You stated a 2 speed booster would be op in first job? Demon Slayers have that. I feel we're being cut by only having one attack speed.
Trinity changes need to happen, I feel the Hyper skill passive change I stated in previous post would be a better suited change, as a higher cap better suits AB.

As for the people who want more balls on soul seeker, change Soul Seeker - Recharge Up to give an extra ball or two instead of recharge chance because it it useless, along with trinity's recharge hyper.
The only reason 4 ball soul seeker was so overpowered back then was that it had NO REMAKE CAP, balls could remake themselves forever, theoretically, piling on for massive dps.

@chompromp
@ailoki808
@mudkippiratez
@xxdeva

I think now would be a good time to start going into specifics on what should change, like hits, damage%s, attack speed, etc.

I know one thing a lot of Angelic Busters want, including myself, is removing the restriction of only compacts for transform, allowing us more options for our appearance.

Trinity also needs to be changed, but we should really decide on how it should be changed, more lines, or higher damage and cap.

There has been a lot of things mentioned about Soul Seeker as well, mainly the addition of extra orbs. Although I would like to see one and only one orb added, how many more would you guys like to see?

Also, if there are any other changes anyone would like to see, such as changes to our mobbing skills or mobility, it would be good to mention those, the sooner the better.

Thanks again everyone !~

Zzzzzzzzzz

Extra orbs on ss is all the class needs end game. Anything else ruins the theme of the class or ruins the actual damage output endgame

@dreanburster

I wanted only the second and third hits of trinity hits to have their damage buffed for a rising damage feel. It isn't all too important though. No idea on how much trinity damage would have to be increased for any of the changes that we have all suggested.

I was trying to make a joke out of Escalade or w/e the dragon's name was. Angelic busters start off with no Affinity III and IV so they had to experience the recharge system in entirety. It gets progressively smoother as they job advance and I wanted to focus on this series of upgrades that promotes further investment in Angelic busters for more fun and fluid game-play. To this I was trying to suggest any upgrades to Angelic busters be added at much higher levels. In retrospect that's technically how Nexon does it anyway so....moving on

by pseudolevels I was thinking of something like armor/weapon level bypass keys. The ones that allow a character to equip gear 5/10 levels above their level. Since Angelic busters have few lines of damage in general a quick fix would be to raise their level. Thus the percentage accuracy penalty on AB's would have a lesser effect on them. Of course such a measure is unorthodox in the pool of maple classes and actually seems to be outside of Nexon's control so don't mind it.

[quote=ailoki808]-snips-[/quote]
If you need me to, I can record videos of Soul Seeker to see if there's a cap on how many orbs there can be on the screen. It would be pretty hard though, since I don't think there's a good boss with high HP and no i-frames and the fact that Soul Seeker is heavily reliant on RNG.

Why do you feel that only the second and third hits need an increase and not the first? Also, how much percent should be added and how high should the cap be raised in your opinion?

Could you explain what you mean by pseudolevels and "Escaldor"? A bit confused with what you said.

I also agree with how Angelic Busters are unique and fun because of their two different methods of bossing, and if we can increase the capabilities of both skills, then Angelic Busters will be much stronger and more enjoyable.

RIP your calculator.

[quote=chompromp]-snips-[/quote]
Attack speed would definitely help, regardless the skill, although I really want to see attack speed affect Soul Seeker. About raising the cap or lines on Trinity, I feel really conflicted as to what I want for it, which isn't really helpful... I want to see what other AB players would like to see.

I'm unsure if the Trinity stacking is a bug or not, because before Soul Seeker Expert was implemented, I almost exclusively used Soul Seeker for bossing... It's quick to regain all your stacks, but it's still annoying I'm sure, so I'll bring it up.

Although I do agree it was a good decision for Nexon to make Trinity "better" than Soul Seeker, I feel as if both skills should be highlighted for Angelic Busters, as they both show both sides of AB
bossing. Hypothetically, if Nexon were to buff Soul Seeker, I don't think bringing it to 3 orbs would be game breaking, considering the amount of end-game bosses that have i-frames, which easily disable all our Seeker orbs. 4 orbs though, is an entirely different story.

[quote=sainkookie]-snips-[/quote]
I'm sure almost every other AB main wants that also, so let's hope for the best !

[quote=anthoy84]-snips-[/quote]
Thanks c:
There's no need to feel hesitant about bringing up any concerns you have about ABs. I'm sure you've played an AB enough to know how to buff them so they can be on par with every other class.

Nice to see someone who's been playing for a long time get the spot for MLC, congrats @dreanburster.

I haven't played in just under a year, so I don't feel qualified to talk at all on this subject. The rest of the comments look good. Hopefully Nexon takes them to heart.

Drean, please make it so my mangelic buster can have more cloth options pls. tenks

Just fired up the ol' ab. I personally feel like have 3 (preferably 4 or 1,000) orbs if done correctly would be totally fair. It takes awhile to get them rocking and rolling, while with any other class they would already have taken out a huge chunk of damage. If we got 4 orb SS, and it was weaker and slower than trinity, i'd still use SS cause it's freaking sweet.

Really missing the 4 SS.

[quote=dreanburster]
-snip-
[/quote]

You pretty much got what I wanted to say with the Trinity hypers, though I'm really more in favor of the more lines and higher attack speed on Trinity. I only made that suggestion because you started talking about removing the Extra Strike hyper. Higher attack speed would benefit any AB regardless of her range. More lines by itself would simply raise how much it takes to cap on Trinity, which I think will be quite unreasonable to expect at 4 lines of 500% for any high PDR, physical resistant boss. It should be raised to around 800% per line.

About the Trinity stack issue -
I'll just reference your Hard Gollux video, lol

https://youtu.be/h6Xldl12w4s

You notice how after you start attacking (0:01) you rack up Trinity stacks and eventually get to 3. Then you keep the 3 stacks for a while before you move to the other side to dodge a Gollux attack. You notice how that 3rd Trinity stack icon turns grey and disappears? Then by 0:15 you have to start from 0 stacks again, even though you didn't really stop spamming Trinity. I don't think not using Trinity for a split second should reset its stacks, considering most other classes' skills that stack like Arcane Aim give you a bit of leeway before the next attack until it disappears. That's what I mean by the stacks bugging out.

And I think Nexon made the right call by choosing Trinity over Soul Seeker. Seeker currently has too many issues right now to be usable on most bosses (iframes, Expert not activating on a few bosses, it not being affected by attack speed). If it was buffed to 3 or 4 orbs it could easily become needlessly OP while still having these large issues. Even if all of those issues are fixed it still has many weaknesses. It is unable to pick a single target effectively unlike Trinity, making it problematic for Pierre and Vellum. It loses nearly all of its effectiveness if the boss teleports or isn't able to be hit for some time/the user can't keep spamming orbs because she has to move to dodge and thus stop attacking (Von Bon, Vellum, Magnus, Gollux, etc). And it doesn't have a PDR bonus like Trinity which really hurts its effectiveness on most bosses. Even in Dojo, where iframes aren't an issue and you essentially get ideal conditions, Soul Seeker spam isn't the fastest method. If it got buffed to 3 or 4 orbs Dojo might be the only place it has a needlessly large advantage.

The more soul seekers we get the better

@dreanBurster

From what @chompromp was saying on page 3 it takes quite a bit of range/funding to even cap on soul seeker so a change in its damage % doesn't seem in order for balance if soul seeker producing 3 orbs, via a buff to the original skill or replacing the recharge hyper. The problem would be the hps where 3 orbs over 2 orbs is generally a 50% increase in hps. On that note is there some hard cap on the number of orbs an AB can have on the screen? Can't seem to find any hard info on that and I only have maple on a lame laptop. Counting orbs on a laggy screen is suicide.

In summary: if SS were buffed to have 3 orbs at later levels then a change in decrease in damage % does not seem necessary. This would also be very lovely to low funded players.

I am personally in the low-line party for Trinity. There are already so many classes with too many lines of damage. Perhaps it is time for an even more compromising proposal?

1. Trinity will be low lines, have a hyper skill to raise only its own damage cap, and have its damage % raised for its 2nd and 3rd hit.
2. Melody cross will maintain a weapon speed boost of +1; in addition, it will increase the player's level to a pseudolevel of 10 greater than the players affecting equipment and enemy levels.
3. Soul seeker will obtain a hyper skill that grants it another orb. This would replace the recharge hyper. This hyper skill would not apply to Soul Seeker Expert.
4. Pretty Exaltation now also grants +2 attack speed for its duration.

Reasoning: Angelic Buster in the beginning is a clunky character from the beginning, but its playstyle smooths out when approaching 4th job. My idea is to make milestones that would support lower players through this AB "Escalador". Rather than giving attack speed early, the player must reach 2nd job and then push on to 150 before gaining attack speed. The change to melody cross is a messy patch to the issue with AB having low lines against mobs higher in level to themselves. It would be a novelty that only AB's would have and would help low funded players on leveling.

Granting Soul seeker move orbs would already be a big buff. I suggested only buffing the original skill in this way as a balance as well as to highlight two different bossing methods that AB's are capable of. Before Soul Seeker expert AB's had to choose between SS or trinity (not a tough choice >.&gt I would like to highlight this old detail. Soul Seeker would have more orbs by itself with the help of a passive hyper skill. Trinity would however still be viable with SSE and the buff in attack speed added to Pretty Exaltation. This is assuming that an attack speed boost still does not apply to Soul Seeker. This produces distinct bossing game-play styles that would promote fun for lower players as they have the option of spamming either skill in certain situations; trinity during Pretty exaltation and Soul Seeker otherwise.

@dreanburster Doing good. Need batteries for my calculator <.<

I'd just really like to say thank you to everyone who has given their suggestions on this thread so far! It really helps me out if I can get a general consensus of what our small little community wants!

One question, do you guys think letting attack speed apply to Soul Seeker would be a good idea? I think it would, but I want to see what everyone else thinks first. By applying, I mean the cast speed. I'm sure the orb movement speed is already fine as is.

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[quote=chompromp]-snips-[/quote]
Definitely going to talk about the hyper skills, since the recharge ones are useless.

Raising damage percents would definitely help for Seeker, but could you clarify what you want to happen for Trinity? I'm a bit confused. I assume you wanted to remove the extra strike hyper, boost the damage a lot, give it an overcap hyper, and let each stack hit overcap? That could possibly work if that's what you're saying.

Also, the stacks for Trinity are broken? I'll have to ask about that also. I never really noticed though.

[quote=mudkippiratez]-snips-[/quote]
Any opinions and info help, so thanks for taking the time to post your opinion in this thread!

I believe the only way ABs are able to gain status resistance themselves is by Affinity II, right? I think maybe buffing it a tiny bit more would help a lot. Also, by giving Iron Blossom 45% stance, I assume it would double to 90% in conjunction with Power Transfer? That would definitely be helpful as well.

I do agree that Soul Seeker Expert, along with all other toggle skills, need to be on by default. It's super annoying having to constantly click the button, and hope it activates, which can get even more annoying if your pets are buffing you at the same time.

Do you think +2 attack speed would be a bit OP for a first job skill? I do agree we need to attack faster somehow, but I don't think it's a good idea to give Melody Cross another attack speed stage. I'm not sure if you browse the Maplestory Reddit, but someone said we could request a general skill delay reduction. What would be your opinion on that?

For the Trinity changes you suggested, which of the two options do you think would be better? In my opinion, I think the more lines route would be better instead of raising the cap further, as increasing the amount of lines would help all AB mains, instead of just ones that cap with Trinity.

For Celestial Roar, you're suggesting that we gain more horizontal range, and potentially sacrifice vertical range if we have to? I'd be okay with that. Just stating my opinion here, but how would you feel if our mobbing skills overall were given more lines, as earlier in this thread, @chompromp mentioned a good point that we're at a complete disadvantage when complaining at higher leveled training fields, as the miss rate would severely decrease the amount of damage we're able to deal to monsters.

[quote=tubring22]-snips-[/quote]
I'm pretty sure 4 Soul Seeker orbs would be busted even with nerfed damage, but I think someone made the suggestion earlier in this thread, saying it would be a good idea to have Soul Seeker throw out 3 orbs instead. What do you think about that?

[quote=ailoki808]-snips-[/quote]
I'm pretty sure 3 Soul Seeker orbs would be pretty balanced, but if not, how much should the damage be changed to balance it?

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I'm personally debating which route Angelic Busters should make to make them better for all AB players out there. Raising damage percents would definitely help everyone, but only raising the cap and attack speed wouldn't really help the weaker ABs out there, so I wanted to know how you feel about that and what's the best route to take for ABs. Please let me know what you guys think about my opinions, as well as any other things you would like to add or change!

@tubring22 orbs 4 life would be amazing, but seeing as Nexon seems to be against orb-world here is a possible compromise:

As @mudkippiratez was suggesting, the Trinity recharge-up hyper skill was pointless. Therefore It should be changed to Trinity Overwhelm which would raise the parent skill's damage cap.

By this logic the Soul Seeker recharge-up hyper is also pointless. To replace this we could have a hyper skill that adds 1 extra orb per soul seeker/ expert cast/proc. 2 would be too much. Feedback? Tuning? 3 orbs in general does seem a bit much, but further tweaking is still possible.

I'm well aware this isnt likely, but I loved the whole 4 soul seeks thing how more and more of them would attack the boss. It looked so amazing, absolutely loved it, Maybe 4 soul seekers per cast, but weaken soul seeker?

As a person who played AB when she first came out and [url=http://i.imgur.com/G90pKji.png]put a lot of money into her,[/url] I hope I can help give some info about her current bossing and where she needs help.

Currently, where she stands after the Reboot update is better, but not where she deserves to be.
Her mobility is amazing with the changes to Pink Pummel, and her survivability is great besides the low status resist but Final Contract makes up for it somewhat. The new Hyper Stat changes coming also helps a lot with that.

[b]For Quality of Life:[/b]
The only problem I have is 80% stance, making it annoying, so I suggest making Iron Blossom give 45% stance instead of 40% making you able to get 100% with the new Hyper Stat changes coming.
Also as this has been mentioned, Soul Seeker Expert should be a toggle-off skill, not a toggle-on. It should be auto-on until turned off.
~~
AB can't take down many bosses that have a lot of i-Frames due to Soul Seeker and Advanced Soul Seeker being useless against them while Trinity not having enough lines to do not nearly enough dps, so here are a few changes to help her with that.
[b]For Bossing:[/b]
I believe Melody Cross should give +2 Attack Speed instead of +1.

With Trinity changes, I either suggest 2 things,
Changing Trinity to 4 lines, doing 500% per line.
or
Changing the Hyper Skill Passive Trinity - Recharge Up (20% extra recharge chance) to Trinity - Overwhelm (Max Damage +30,000,000)
This makes ONLY Trinity do 30m more (100m cap with Affinity Heart IV)
~~
[b]For Mobbing:[/b]
Celestial Roar should have the same horizontal range as Lovely Sting.
If the vertical range needs to be lowered to make the horizontal longer, I wouldn't mind.
AB's mobbing is really good, just a little extra range would help.
~~
I feel these changes are fair in a sense to upgrade their ability to take down take down bosses like CVellum.
It isn't too much, yet it should be a great help.

[quote=dreanburster]I feel like pre-nerf Soul Seeker was OP only because it could break cap. I think the best option would be a 4 orb Seeker with less damage than pre-nerf or your suggestion would be good too. Didn't GMS get a 3 orb Seeker when AB was first released? I think that could also be good.

Also, we really do need to remove the recharge increasing hyper, as those are pointless due to Affinity now. Completely forgot about that, thanks for reminding me!

What if instead of an extra strike hyper, it was changed to raise Trinity's cap by 20m? Also adding onto this, Affinity IV's passive would raise the cap by 50m, instead of 20m. Adding to this, each of Trinity's stack would add an extra 10m cap for just Trinity alone, allowing for a cap of 150m on Trinity and a 100m cap for everything else. I also feel like to balance this, we'd need to raise Trinity's %damage as well, because raising the cap and doing nothing else wouldn't help non-capping players.

With your idea of SSE, I think having to reduce the cap would be unnecessary, because it's already insanely hard to cap with regular Soul Seeker. 75% damage is okay, but I'm pretty sure it leaves the cap the same, but I could be wrong. Also, no problem in being unable to find a workaround for i-frames and Seeker.

I love that idea, having dress-up become toggle, and compacts are totally optional. Definitely a really good idea.

I summon @chompromp. What do you think about these?[/quote]

This would work if these changes were implemented after the Reboot split of Trinity into 2 lines at 800%.

As it is now, we have 5 Hyper skill points to improve skills. Currently, they go into Finale Ribbon Cooldown Cutter, Trinity and Soul Seeker Reinforce, Trinity Extra Strike, and Soul Seeker Make Up for that 10% additional recreation rate.

I think 20% total damage for both Trinity and Soul Seeker, while ok, could be re-implemented to increase the skill percentages of these skills. Ideally, I'd like:

Finale Ribbon - Cooldown Cutter

Trinity - Damage Cap Increase
(replaces Extra Strike and increases damage cap on Trinity by 20M)

Soul Seeker - Make Up

Trinity - Skill Percentage Increase
800% -> 1350%
(to compare, 2 line Trinity right now is 950% per line)

Soul Seeker - Skill Percentage Increase
320% -> 550%
It is really, really difficult to cap on Soul Seeker on any boss worth anything, much less Soul Seeker Expert.

With this, Trinity will have an additional 50M from Affinity IV, a 20M from that Damage Cap increase hyper, and stack up to 3 times for another 30M. It would permit Trinity to do 2 lines at 150M each, which is a bit better than what we had before (210M max from 3 lines at 70M each).

As it is now, you can cap on 70M Trinity on regular bosses at around (visible) 1.5M range, and about 3-3.2M for Soul Seeker. Capping on physical resistant bosses with 0 PDR would require about 3M range for Trinity, and probably around 6M for Soul Seeker. Then there's PDR...

As it is now, that's around 8k stat, 15k stat, 14k stat, 20-25k stat, and probably very close to 40k stat for capping 70M Soul Seekers at high PDR, physical resistant. The Soul Seeker numbers are absolutely ridiculous considering our DPS is so low.

The recent change to Soul Seeker Expert being toggleable broke something with Trinity stacks. When I use Trinity, after the 3rd hit the 3rd stack icon stays for a max of like 3 seconds before turning black. The stack then resets to 1, even if I was still attacking! Before Firepower, once Trinity hit 3 stacks the icon would stay as the 3rd stack icon if you kept attacking.

As the person above said, 4 orb Soul Seeker, even with that 10M cap, was really, really broken.

[quote=dreanburster]I feel like pre-nerf Soul Seeker was OP only because it could break cap. I think the best option would be a 4 orb Seeker with less damage than pre-nerf or your suggestion would be good too. Didn't GMS get a 3 orb Seeker when AB was first released? I think that could also be good.

Also, we really do need to remove the recharge increasing hyper, as those are pointless due to Affinity now. Completely forgot about that, thanks for reminding me!

What if instead of an extra strike hyper, it was changed to raise Trinity's cap by 20m? Also adding onto this, Affinity IV's passive would raise the cap by 50m, instead of 20m. Adding to this, each of Trinity's stack would add an extra 10m cap for just Trinity alone, allowing for a cap of 150m on Trinity and a 100m cap for everything else. I also feel like to balance this, we'd need to raise Trinity's %damage as well, because raising the cap and doing nothing else wouldn't help non-capping players.

With your idea of SSE, I think having to reduce the cap would be unnecessary, because it's already insanely hard to cap with regular Soul Seeker. 75% damage is okay, but I'm pretty sure it leaves the cap the same, but I could be wrong. Also, no problem in being unable to find a workaround for i-frames and Seeker.

I love that idea, having dress-up become toggle, and compacts are totally optional. Definitely a really good idea.

I summon @chompromp. What do you think about these?[/quote]

Soul Seeker was 4 orbs as well on GMS, though the damage was 300% instead of 420% and the base recreation was 60% instead of 80%.

4 orbs on 90% recreation chance without a limit was very strong, it was not just the cap but the amount of hits. MSEA got KMS prenerf AB and here https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLHH_HIldmnw0VuEZzLpgrQ/videos you can see how absurdly strong it was.

For the i-frames issue with Soul Seeker. Bosses could spawn an invisible mob at their location when they go into i-frames and that lasts until the boss i-frames ends so that the orbs bounce on that mob while the boss is on i-frame, while this wont help with bosses that teleport like Pierre, it would do the deal at ones like Magnus and Queen.

[quote=laurico]-snip-[/quote]
I feel like pre-nerf Soul Seeker was OP only because it could break cap. I think the best option would be a 4 orb Seeker with less damage than pre-nerf or your suggestion would be good too. Didn't GMS get a 3 orb Seeker when AB was first released? I think that could also be good.

Also, we really do need to remove the recharge increasing hyper, as those are pointless due to Affinity now. Completely forgot about that, thanks for reminding me!

[quote=ailoki808]-snips-[/quote]
What if instead of an extra strike hyper, it was changed to raise Trinity's cap by 20m? Also adding onto this, Affinity IV's passive would raise the cap by 50m, instead of 20m. Adding to this, each of Trinity's stack would add an extra 10m cap for just Trinity alone, allowing for a cap of 150m on Trinity and a 100m cap for everything else. I also feel like to balance this, we'd need to raise Trinity's %damage as well, because raising the cap and doing nothing else wouldn't help non-capping players.

With your idea of SSE, I think having to reduce the cap would be unnecessary, because it's already insanely hard to cap with regular Soul Seeker. 75% damage is okay, but I'm pretty sure it leaves the cap the same, but I could be wrong. Also, no problem in being unable to find a workaround for i-frames and Seeker.

I love that idea, having dress-up become toggle, and compacts are totally optional. Definitely a really good idea.

I summon @chompromp. What do you think about these?

Hiyas, haven't played AB's for a while, but it's a fun class so I'm gonna pitch my opinions if only to stir things up.

When I first played AB the recharge system made things really clunky. Then the changes to Affinity IV made things less clunky, but I liked how AB skills packed a punch in single-mighty-swoops (hammer time....I was/am a nub).

As with several others I feel that having few lines of damage and a higher damage cap is the way to go. As to how this would be implemented:
1. Each trinity "hit" will only deal 1 line of damage.
2. The trinity extra strike hyper skill will be changed from extra strike for each hit to extra strike only on trinity's 3rd hit.
3. Each stack of the trinity buff increases AB's damage cap by 20mil (max 3 stacks)
4. Affinity IV's passive increase to AB's damage cap be raised from 20mil to 40mil.

With these changes I will have nerfed trinity.... didn't think that through.... However the rest of AB's skills have a raised damage cap of 20mil. This would mean a damage cap of about 98mil with Finale Ribbon and Affinity IV. With Trinity's buff fully stacked AB's damage cap would reach 158mil. This would last for like 8 seconds, but with soul seeker expert you would be dealing a great deal more damage than before (after stacking....)

Of course this would create a huge dependence on soul seeker orbs once again. Dealing 158mil while capping per orb would be crazy so applying Soul Seeker Expert's reduction in orb damage(75%) to the orbs' damage cap would be necessary. This would reduce each SSE orb's max damage from 158 mil to 118.5 mil; which would still be a buff from the current cap of 78mil(Finale Ribbon+AffinityIV).

This is just my opinion on what I would change to AB to maintain that orb-centric clunky AB I used to play so don't mind me please. Apologies on not finding a workaround to SS on Bosses with I-frames.

As to that discussion on AB Compacts: Why don't we just have AB's Dress up/Hyper Coordinate beginner skill actually do something? Like @chompromp was suggesting: the compacts could change the color/Visual Effects of AB skills. On this line of thought AB's by default would not transform when using skills. Dress up/Hyper Coordinate will toggle ON/OFF the equipped compact which would then change the Visual Effects accordingly. The compact would then replace only the overall/shoes/face/hair when the beginner skill is toggled ON.

Ty Dreanburster for your time and consideration. GL w/ MLC

[quote=dreanburster]
> Old KMS Seeker with 4 orbs
> Soul Seeker also triggers Soul Seeker expert.
[/quote]

KMS pre-nerf Soul Seeker was absurdly OP, Nexon definitely isnt going to bring back that.

IMO they should rework Soul Seeker to be just a final attack skill, making it 2 orbs on SS and 3 orbs on SSE, also reworking its hypers to proc chance increase, recreation chance increase and reduces the damage but releases 1 extra orb.

With 100% recharge chance there is no reason to have an skillset aimed at rotating spells anymore.

Less lines, bigger cap.
Doing multiple lines with trinity looks stupid.
They should keep it similar to the original release of AB where they
hit only 1 line but hit a lot higher than the ordinary damage cap.

@savaah: xoxo

[quote=dreanburster]I meant they already did* change the color a bit, but I wanted your opinion on if you liked that minimal change or not.[/quote]
I do like it. Feather Hop without any compact is already good, so minimal changes would fit it best.

[quote=chompromp]I think they already do change the color of Feather Hop a bit, but if not, sure!
Other visual changes that I think could happen - maybe recolor a few skills a bit based on our compact?
A Finale Ribbon or Pretty Exaltation with a black/purple/yellow theme would be cute. Different colors of Trinity and Soul Seeker sounds cool too.[/quote]

I meant they already did* change the color a bit, but I wanted your opinion on if you liked that minimal change or not.

[quote=dreanburster]That actually looks really cute. I'm sure a ton of people would like that !

Also, question. How do you feel about each compact changing the color of Feather Hop? Also, do you think there should be any other visual changes?[/quote]
I think they already do change the color of Feather Hop a bit, but if not, sure!
Other visual changes that I think could happen - maybe recolor a few skills a bit based on our compact?
A Finale Ribbon or Pretty Exaltation with a black/purple/yellow theme would be cute. Different colors of Trinity and Soul Seeker sounds cool too.

[quote=chompromp]Yeah, here you go: http://i.imgur.com/TGf6fBs.png[/quote]

That actually looks really cute. I'm sure a ton of people would like that !

Also, question. How do you feel about each compact changing the color of Feather Hop? Also, do you think there should be any other visual changes?

[quote=dreanburster]
That tasaito image is broken. Could you screenshot it and upload it to imgur?[/quote]
Yeah, here you go: http://i.imgur.com/TGf6fBs.png

[quote=chompromp]-snips-[/quote]

Thanks! I'll try my best to give ABs justice!

For Trinity, I feel like raising the cap past [b]just[/b] 70m for us would be the best solution. Having 6 lines on Trinity would also fix things, but it would seem out of place, since the the original concept for Angelic Busters was huge damage in one hit.

Soul Seeker (along with Nether Shield) definitely needs some sort of improvement. I really like what you said, if the boss has i-frames, they stay but hit 1s, or even misses.
One extra change I would like to see would either be:

> Old KMS Seeker with 4 orbs
> Soul Seeker also triggers Soul Seeker expert.

Soul Seeker Expert, along with almost every other toggle skill needs to stay on by default, making bossing more convenient.

Looking at your suggestion for Celestial Roar, it reminds me of one time I was trying to train at Scrapyard (I died because the return to AB room skill took too long to teleport me), I was trying to train with Celestial Roar, and I could 1-shot if both hits actually landed, but the misses ruined me. We definitely needs more lines, or something else.

That tasaito image is broken. Could you screenshot it and upload it to imgur?

They really do need to add more compacts too. I think JMS got 3 extra ones, but I could be wrong. Perm compacts are also a good idea.

Posting a long post is no problem, we're far from being viable.

@decensy: oh ok then im sry

@savaah: bc drean is bae tbh

@decensy y u do dis 2 mi

Oh, so you ended up being the MLC representative for AB. Guess we're in good hands then

My two main concerns for the class are the same as yours, and I have a few suggestions that I think could help solve those problems.

Lines are a large issue for ABs. I think there's a few ways that they could fix it - improve Trinity, tweak Soul Seeker a bit, and add lines to some of our mobbing moves.

I remember when AB's came out that we were the only class to be able to hit over the 999,999 cap. Soul Seeker was capped at 10M, Trinity 40M, and I think Celestial Roar at 30M.
Then they raised the cap to 50M and we eventually got a 20M maximum damage cap increase as some sort of compensation.

It looks like the current trend for KMS buffs for AB is simply giving us more lines (1 -> 2 -> 3 line Trinity). I suppose they could continue to do this indefinitely, as that's the easiest solution.
6 line Trinity would put us at a reasonable amount of lines to do endgame bosses such as Cvel. I suspect Nexon will probably take this route if they eventually do decide to buff our lines.

Another solution would be merging all of our Trinity lines into 1 large line, like the old Trinity was.
The damage cap would have to be raised accordingly - 400M with a hyper to increase damage cap on Trinity only to 450M (roughly equal to my 6 line Trinity suggestion).

Soul Seeker, and all other "orb" type skills like Nether Shield really deserve a large revamp. As everyone knows, as soon as a boss has an invincibility frame, the orbs all evaporate instantly.
I suggest Nexon make it so that you can still stack more orbs during i-frames, but make the orbs only do 1s like what happens when you use an orb type skill during DR, or remove the damage altogether, but allow them to still hit the boss so the stacks stay. I suspect this will be harder than it looks, considering Nexon is still trying to fix Final Attack mechanics and summons like Platter from triggering DR, much less bosses with i-frames. As it is, even the maximum ideal DPS for Soul Seeker spam right now on a nonattacking dummy, with a 70M cap, is still ~1b DPS, which is quite little compared to classes that have 40 lines or more per second that don't suffer from i-frame issues, so I don't think this suggestion would make us OP. Nexon does seem to think that Soul Seeker should be phased out in favor of Trinity spam, so maybe this "orb" skill update should only apply to Soul Seekers triggered by Soul Seeker Expert.

There are also a few bosses that don't allow Soul Seeker Expert to activate, like Gollux gem and PB statues. That should be fixed too.

Oh, and please make Soul Seeker Expert a toggle-[b]off[/b] skill, instead of a toggle-[b]on[/b]. It should always be on besides at Chaos Pierre. It's really annoying reviving at Magnus and having to wait until my pet buffs me before the key press for Soul Seeker Expert to actually turn itself on registers >.<

Our mobbing moves could also use some additional lines. Celestial Roar, while quite strong, is hampered with only 2 lines of damage when attacking higher level monsters (as the high miss rate inherently penalizes classes that have few mobbing lines, and helps those that have a lot).. Maybe ask Nexon to add a line or two, as it's a 4th job mobbing skill.
Lovely Sting could also be split into 2 lines, as it allows for extremely long horizontal range mobbing.

Since Nexon decided to fix Supernova with the addition of 2 more lines, maybe they can also add a line or two onto Finale Ribbon.
4000% is Snipe level skill damage, and most endgame MM's have very little problem hitting their Snipe cap.

As to your second concern - YES! I would love to be able to customize my transformed look more.

At the very least Nexon should at least make the compacts "permanent" instead of forcing you to stick with that compact after it expires.
They should also add in that other black (not Cynical) compact that I saw in the JMS BannedStory replacement <3
http://www.tasaito.com/maker2/image/longcoat/01051332/info.iconRaw.png

I would prefer to be able to customize my transformed look with regular perm NX. Or at least, make it so you only transform after using one of your attacking skills.
It would be nice to actually be able to move around without having to be in the transformed look, or using a mount.

I have nothing really to say about the Reboot changes. They're all buffs that I think are well needed.

Sorry for the long post

@savaah: can u not

wow a mlc member! i thought they went extinct because of how god awful mlc is!

Nice thread <3