General

[quote=Davyn]ETSH not activating while Shadow Stars is in effect makes half of it's purpose null and come 4th job the 20% damage boost to skills rarely, if ever, used makes the other half of it near worthless.[/quote]

After the Justice revamp, with Shadow Stars on, ETSH still activates the All Crits effect, just not the 1 Star Recharged thing. xD

[quote=taimega2007]Umm what? Shadow partner was 50% since the beginning. It was buffed to 70% damage in the revamp. Number of hits being low is a completely stupid reason. We have more hits than Hurricane without final attack so that's not a problem. The reason we don't do as much damage is because some classes have crazy buff stacking and others like DBs just have one ridiculous buff in Final Cut. Night lords could use a revamp in terms of our skills, we still have a lot of useless skills that were supposed to be eliminated in the Chaos revamp. Every other class got rid of them.[/quote]

I'm aware that SP was 50% pre-revamp. I'm not saying our damage was better then or that the 20% buff didn't help, but just knowing that half of our hits are 30% less than maximum while others attacking at similar speeds do full damage for them is a bit of a hindrance.

Having more hits than Hurricane without AFA isn't much to boast about, especially when AFA activates at a 70% rate at max level.

The useless skills really is a huge problem, though. I agree completely. Frailty Curse and Taunt not effecting bosses or boss-status monsters makes them near useless. Shadow Web never truly had a purpose. ETSH not activating while Shadow Stars is in effect makes half of it's purpose null and come 4th job the 20% damage boost to skills rarely, if ever, used makes the other half of it near worthless.

[quote=FitingTheif]Giving night lords a secondary weapon that can be potential'd would also be a good boost.
Assuming it had a good multiplier.[/quote]

All characters without one, will be getting a secondary weapon soon.

I just want my Avenger back.

Giving night lords a secondary weapon that can be potential'd would also be a good boost.
Assuming it had a good multiplier.

[quote=FitingTheif]Well I was thinking more of a skill that made us desirable to be in parties.

NLs used to be desired for their damage, but now that is no longer an option. Maybe if we got a skill similar to sharp eyes....[/quote]

As long as it isn't a skill able to be stolen by Phantoms, then I'm all for it. What I want is better survivability, and damage would take a backseat.

Dark Flare isn't really the perfect skill for us, but they should tweak it for party usage. I said this numerous times before, but the damage should be reflected back to the enemy when anyone within range misses and/or uses an evading skill like Shadow Shifter. The second effect would be want Xenon (coincidentally) possesses right now which would be raising your HP and Dodge Rate, but would also be in effect when a party member is in Dark Flare's huge range.

I honestly don't understand why they replaced Avenger with Shade Split... We were meant to be a ranged class and yet Nexon wants us ranged class to jump into a middle of a mob and pretty much tank damage... We lack in survivability and yet we have to jump into a horde of monsters to deal aoe damage to keep up in leveling....
Nightlord training methods after 170 is extremely difficult because monsters at SH can pretty much 2~3 hit you.... if you're not careful or lag a bit, you most likely would die..
I just want Avenger back... at least we can deal damage to multiple monsters from afar...

Well I was thinking more of a skill that made us desirable to be in parties.

NLs used to be desired for their damage, but now that is no longer an option. Maybe if we got a skill similar to sharp eyes....

@TripleBladez: Ah, I never truly understood that multiplier coefficient. Always thought it was lower than the others for some reason.

Yeah, the 30% loss of damage with SP along with the number of hits being low when taking into account attack speed are probably the reasons we don't seem to do as much damage.

[quote=MagiBombchu]Now you know how non NLs felt back in the day.[/quote]

Thing is, Night lords weren't capable of ksing other classes at ANY point because avenger wasn't exactly the best mobbing skill either, and single target damage only went so far. At most, second and partially third job was when assassins and hermits could potentially ks others, but those are insignificant levels at best. Any class can outmob night lords now, and a vast majority of classes can even outdo night lords in single target damage, assuming the exact same funding. Night lords have to spend about 5 times what most other classes spend to do on par damage. It's not rational to think this is punishment for night lords being the "top class" back then when in reality, all they really had was slightly better single target damage and mobility. I speak from experience, i played my night lord since the beginning and i've heard all the "assassin ks stories", most of which didn't go past level 100 or so.

[quote=Davyn]I think we need an updated damage formula. To do decent damage as an NL, you need an outrageous amount of funding compared to nearly any other class due to our multiplier or whatever. I'm all for being different here, but we're a bit behind the times.[/quote]

Our weapon multiplier is still the second highest at 1.75x (CS is 1.8x).

It's not necessarily the funding, but the amount of hits needs to be changed. If we had the hits per second of Kaiser, Merc, or Mech, we'd be in the upper echelon in terms of 1v1. The same can be said for our mobbing skills if it had more hits added on, more targets, lower MS delay to attack faster. Each new class has at the minimum an above average hits per second rate compared to the original 5 Adventurers. If they don't, they're compensated by having high damage percentages on their skills (e.g. Angelic Buster).

Josh, I also think having a 70% SP handicaps us as well as other Thieves. Our clone doesn't even mirror us properly, so we lose out that additional 30% damage that other classes would have with their higher hits per second rate.

If anything, I wish Shade Split's damage could be applied to Avenger. It really does make no sense for a ninja to have to jump INTO monsters to attack them.

I don't mind damage, I get by fine despite not being well-equipped to today's standards. Went to CZak with a DrK friend the other day, and we're just average Maplers, and tbh, CZak got a lot easier after our recent revamps. Some skills can definitely be replaced, but Hyper Skills are going to be awesome even though we're not going to be a job like the new ones.

It has been very obvious that Nexon isn't really that into job balancing since like forever. They just nerf jobs if others complain about them being too strong and to let new ones have more players. I just enjoy the job, but for other players, I do often wish the people in charge of Nexon would be replaced with people who could balance the jobs out of genuine love for the game and all its jobs, and just make money off of pricier cosmetics and such. xD

I think we need an updated damage formula. To do decent damage as an NL, you need an outrageous amount of funding compared to nearly any other class due to our multiplier or whatever. I'm all for being different here, but we're a bit behind the times.

What do they need? A new class to play.

@MagiBombchu: yea, but back then (I was a dexless sin back then) I was one of the nice ones. It made people like me.

Now adays, you have to beg for mercy, and since the community has just gone downhill since then, most people show no mercy. Atleast back then if you begged for mercy, they would enjoy the power and move on...

[quote=dagayeskimo]1600% avenger
60 att dark harmony
400% quad throw[/quote]

boner

1600% avenger
60 att dark harmony
400% quad throw

avenger i miss you!

[quote=ProBlades]I feel like NL's have been complaining a bit too much lately...[/quote]

its because kaiser and luminous can easily ks us. like its not even funny how easily we get ks'd.

Agreed.

I feel like NL's have been complaining a bit too much lately...

tell me about it my NL is 158 with clean empress set but with only like 6% luk XD and it has 21k range while my 14x luminious has tempest set and does more damage then my nl NEXON HELP US NL'S

Make Dark Harmony a party buff.

Oh how I remember the days when NLs ruled maple, how times have changed.