General

I have to be brutally honest, Paladins with Elemental Void made me salty. Like others said, it makes NO sense whatsoever that a defensive warrior out-damages an offensive warrior. If people are going to bring up old chit like how Nexon topdog'ed Heroes pre-RED well I can say this: Heroes never outdamaged Paladins on Holy/Fire/Lightning (I think) elementally weak mobs which Paladins excelled at pre-BB.

I think they had it much easier than Crusaders before 4th job was released, especially at ghost pirates; they were really under-appreciated. Elemental charges made power strike and slash blast much stronger than crusader's combo orbs; coma and panic wouldn't suffice because your damage was crap when you were getting your orbs back.
DKs attacked pretty slow but they hit high, attacked 3 monsters, their damage was consistent, and priests were their female dog. They were always wanted in parties.

But the present day? Idfk, I'm so confused and overwhelmed by everything.

Well they are getting nerfed to the point where you're better off throwing your money onto even a Kaiser than stay paladin. Their DPS aren't great, it's because of Elemental Ignore that they can compete with other stronger classes. They won't be great bossers or even good bossers after the nerf. They'll be completely average or maybe even worse.

However, if you have like 4m range, I think you can neglect the nerf to a certain extent (you still lose 10% damage from blast -1 line), but then again with that money as I've said before, you might as well fund another class.

So all in all, instead of choosing to buff heroes to the same level as Drk or Paladin, they decided to nerf them both below hero. I think this is fine since it make the game more challenging overall.

So I'm the only one who changed from dark knight to paladin because my dark knight was still boring for me despite the RED changes (I had been excited for so many months about the Dark Knight changes)? I had no idea Paladin would be my strongest character yet.

I have also switched from Paladin to Hero after losing my buff duration inner ability. It's extremely annoying having to juggle blast duration and elemental charges so I am glad I got that over with.

Damage is much higher than my Paladin ofc, but I only tested it on Czak which has no elemental resistance. I'll probably get a much higher dojo time compared to my Paladin. I'll go try hard Gollux tomorrow and see how it is. Dodging everything will probably be a challenge now that I can't just self heal.

Since Paladin is getting a huge nerf I am probably just going to stay as a hero for a good while until 5th job comes out (My first account was a hero anyways, but I deleted it by accident and this was way before RED update).

I am glad that Hero will once again be on the top of the DPS list when compared to Drk and Paladin as that's how it was supposed to be in the first place.

P.S. It feels good to return to my original class. I was meant to be a Hero from the beginning. I've gone a full circle.

[quote=blackicon]The nerf to pally is only fair. Yes brutal, but fair. Pally has been a broken class for too long with its resistance ignore. But then again, before red all you see is hero squirming everywhere. Post-res they turned into pally for DPS, and now they will probably comeback to hero. Here's a middle finger to those traitors.

Now, an honest pally that was created before red have my respect. So is Hero that never turn away to pally post-red.

I tried switching from Hero to pally once. The DPS is like a forbidden fruit. I killed high resistance boss almost twice as fast it's insane. But then i found out the meaning of playing the right class. I found out, that behind those line of numbers, there are only emptiness. Yes of course i don't have to carry 1000+ honster with me ever again and blast are doing insane dps. But without the combo orbs, without the enrage button, something just feels missing. I'm not berating Pally, I'm just saying that I'm one of those Mapler that can wholeheartly say which class is best for me. And that class is Hero. The one and only real Hero.

P.S. hope they don't change the class name for 5th job adv.[/quote]

I like you.

I like you a lot.

Lets be friends ingame.

The nerf to pally is only fair. Yes brutal, but fair. Pally has been a broken class for too long with its resistance ignore. But then again, before red all you see is hero squirming everywhere. Post-res they turned into pally for DPS, and now they will probably comeback to hero. Here's a middle finger to those traitors.

Now, an honest pally that was created before red have my respect. So is Hero that never turn away to pally post-red.

I tried switching from Hero to pally once. The DPS is like a forbidden fruit. I killed high resistance boss almost twice as fast it's insane. But then i found out the meaning of playing the right class. I found out, that behind those line of numbers, there are only emptiness. Yes of course i don't have to carry 1000+ honster with me ever again and blast are doing insane dps. But without the combo orbs, without the enrage button, something just feels missing. I'm not berating Pally, I'm just saying that I'm one of those Mapler that can wholeheartly say which class is best for me. And that class is Hero. The one and only real Hero.

P.S. hope they don't change the class name for 5th job adv.

[quote=eyedrop]i have a 166 paladin, which i got bored of after timeless grinding and "clunky" playstyle; no great mobility so that's a minus for me i did quite enjoy huge damage. depending on how squishy/tanky hero is i may turn my paladin to hero

so how squishy are heros, in comparison to say, shade/paladin/demon avenger/dawn warrior?[/quote]

pretty damn squishy, most of those classes have some kind of self heal, all hero has is a paltry 1k regeneration every few seconds, but in all honestly it doesn't matter TOO much when you're higher leveled, my weapon defense is already at max so yeah, I imagine leveling one would be a pain though.

[quote=SkyBreak]i think their hyper should be like what BaM does[/quote]

That's also another way at how I thought Hero's attack hyper should've been reworked like (though I thought it could be a bit too powerful): removing its cooldown, decreasing its cast delay, and letting Raging Blow able to combo into it. Even though it would be stronger than BaM's Hyper, it should use maybe around 5 Combo Orbs.

I'm working on a future Paladin, I do love their element skills and how tanky they are.

Definitely switching from a Paladin to a Hero as soon as I can. I decided this way before the nerf though. Cycling through the charges then one blast and repeat gets kind of boring. The damage is quite nice though. I'd definitely be maining Hero if they were to change Raging Blow. I like the Sword animation for Enraged Raging Blow but then I like the Axe animation for Raging Blow

i think their hyper should be like what BaM does

i have a 166 paladin, which i got bored of after timeless grinding and "clunky" playstyle; no great mobility so that's a minus for me i did quite enjoy huge damage. depending on how squishy/tanky hero is i may turn my paladin to hero

so how squishy are heros, in comparison to say, shade/paladin/demon avenger/dawn warrior?

Biggest problem I have with Heroes are training them from the ground up. They don't have really good mobbing skills so it's hard to train to 200.

Otherwise I'm fine with them.

Feels odd saying this, but Heroes need some more damage, as even [b]Dawn Warriors[/b] outdamage them when you factor in their Elemental Expert passive.
One way to start is to make Rising Rage [i]cast faster[/i] so it isn't detrimental to DPS; the change from a 30 secs to 10 secs cooldown doesn't mean anything (except for training) if you can still use Raging Blow like 3 times for the time it takes for 1 RR.

I have 2 friends who bandwagoned to Paladin for the damage. They're more funded than me, but the nerf is going to drive them off (one of them even said he's switching to Dawn Warrior), as well it should.

Basically, the Paladin nerfs so far removes 1 Blast line (Advanced Charge gives 1 line to it instead of 2) and 100% Elemental Reduction (even renaming Void Elemental to Elemental Charge). Elemental Charges still get their +2 hit count from Advanced Charge, so Lightning+Divine [i]might[/i] outdamage Blast before adding Hypers.
If they aren't going to give back 50% Elemental Reduction for 5th Job, at least let Paladins take more than one consecutive %HP attack (like Magnus meteors and Gollux's cheap Death Stare + Shockwave combo) with a passive which makes them unaffected by the invincibility frame-ignoring properties of those attacks. Could be a bit too broken, however, so a lower Sacrosanctity cooldown would likely suffice...

Heroes kept their philosophy pretty well, sacrificing some of the defense other classes enjoy to deal more damage (the only other warrior class I've seen that is more squishy than Hero is Kaiser, and they have something to counteract that while Heroes don't)

But yeah totally agreed @David0696, even as a Paladin I would not mind if Heroes were the best damage dealer among the explorer warriors, it's as it should be, with Paladins being master of defense, and Dark Knights being the master of flexibility.
It's basically the same situation here in Renegades, except it extends to Paladins also, there's a fairly decent sized population of low level Paladins and Heroes (150 and belows), but rarely any super funded ones. There is literally 1 Paladin in our server who is over 1m range, and I'm one 4 mid tier funded Paladins, and at the moment I'm pretty sure I'm the strongest Hero on the server... I know for sure I'm the only one that has achieved a less than 10 min dojo time. Oddly enough there is a ton of Dark Knights, we have several strong ones who can compete for Hero gloves.

@fradddd
Though dark knight is amazingly strong, I'm pretty sure a Paladin could match or beat it in terms of damage on elemental resistant bosses, not sure though, I don't have anyone to compare to.

Dark Knight turned Paladin who also has a lower level Hero here.

Paladin is way stronger than Dark Knight. I'm 147 Pally right now and I still think I'm stronger than I would be if I were a Dark Knight. I switched at level 131.
My Hero is 131 and hits like a third the damage that my Pally hit at those levels.

Pally is strongest (til maybe a certain point...). Hero appeals strongly to me but I just can't deal with the significantly lower damage and the shorter range of Raging Blow. While I do enjoy bossing, Pally is fantastic at bossing too, so I don't need to be a Hero.
They still cool though.

@calabari I would love if Hero was the absolute strongest character in game. Why shouldn't they be? Well, besides the fact that certain classes literally fought the Black Mage and are masters of skill...but really though, Hero should be stronger.

I have been a hero since July of 2009. It is my first character.

The player base for Paladins seems to have changed in the RED patch. Ever since they got Void Elemental, so many people switched over to Paladins for the damage increase. As a hero, it is entertaining to think what it would be like to be a paladin instead of a hero but the community completely changed. People are switching jobs and even moving into the warrior branch just to become a paladin. I think if the nerf in KMST follows through, as many paladins who joined the class for damage will leave the class, switching to a dark knight or hero.

Heroes are a dead class. In Windia, one of the more populated servers, it is rare to see another hero. It seems like on BasilMarket that the only people who play heroes are people who fund it a lot. To me, heroes should still be damage king over the other explorer warriors because of their squishiness. Paladins should be the weakest due to their superior defense. Dark knights should be in the middle. For some reason, the roles are reversed.

What is up with warriors hitting so many lines of damage? It made sense where blast was one hit, brandish was two hits, and dragon buster was three hits. The animation matched the number of hits. It made sense for a warrior to do low hits per second. Blast is an animation that looks like one hit but does 10 lines of damage? Something is wrong with that. I understand that the damage cap is an issue. I think the mechanics of the warriors would be much better if they had their own job specific damage cap corresponding to the number of hits. I would love to have brandish again. Instead of a 50m damage cap, it would be 150m. It does not make sense to me how I could do raging blow 112 times with a green MPE pot in one minute. Each attack is six hits.

@calabari
yeah it is really unbalanced that Heroes are supposed to be the all out damaging class, yet 1 crappy mechanic changes that for much of end game content. I also think they need some love with mobbing xD Rage should be revamped a bit honestly, 30 attack buff for the party is pretty underwhelming nowadays.

@SirKibbleX2
yeah I know what you mean, I played Paladin before RED patch also and enjoyed the pre-revamp Blast with different elemental "buffs" instead of the charges we have now. Ofc, I still love Pally even after RED patch, I'm a bit of a damage junkie so seeing paladins deal a lot of damage does make me happy (and I boss all the time)

I love my pally andI think they're a fun class. I also understand how that can be so frustrated with always being in the hero's shadow for so long, but it still frustrates me that heroes don't have the damage to outshine them. It's all we have.

We have no good party skills, no healing, no tankiness. Besides decent damage all we have is pot chugging and good 1v1 skills.
Besides that I have no other peevs and I enjoy meeting paladins because, in all honesty, they're usually very nice people

[quote=Kazzooey]What was the range and %boss on your Paladin and Her fully buffed? I want to switch to hero cause I want to mix things up for my main and try something new. Job coins are so hard to get though D:

My Pally range fully buffed is like 245k(used to be 300 but lost that 65k trying to bump my shield up to legendary...) With around 130% boss. Was hitting 2.6-3.2m lines on blast, wondering how much damage Id get per line on Hero.[/quote]

Fully buffed I was around 770k and had 120 % ish boss damage. Clean it was a bit lower than my Hero's clean (around.. 365k I believe, I should've taken screenies of my stats before switching...)
I find that on elemental resistant bosses you deal around the same damage per line with blast and enraged RB, a bit more with enraged RB ofc but lesser lines.

hero turned paladin

gameplay is very clunky and boring but it makes me monies so im not complaining

@kazzooey easier to tell if you gave us your clean range, also heroes have no visual buff ranges so their clean is nearly the same as their buffed

For most Pallies that I see, I guess I feel a little remorse that they get more safety nets while having better end-game potential, but aside from that, I'm quite neutral.

But for the Pallies who were once Heroes...YOU DIRTY TRAITORS

While I've never switched from my Hero, I do have a low-leveled Pally, and aside from the charges+blast annoyance, I was enjoying all the tankiness.

What was the range and %boss on your Paladin and Her fully buffed? I want to switch to hero cause I want to mix things up for my main and try something new. Job coins are so hard to get though D:

My Pally range fully buffed is like 245k(used to be 300 but lost that 65k trying to bump my shield up to legendary...) With around 130% boss. Was hitting 2.6-3.2m lines on blast, wondering how much damage Id get per line on Hero.