General

[quote=Windruid]I think with more of a pre-4th job mentality. Those 6-man viking, squid, or gobi parties required everyone to do their part in order to get the most exp for each other. If one person stops or slows down, everyone's exp slows down. I've bonded and made many friends through partying back then. I'd have one or two new people in my buddylist every few days. Now, it's hard to find decent people to befriend. Last new person I've added to my buddy list was maybe 2 months ago. Most of them are in your party or wants to buddy you in order to gain a new attacker friend that they can call whenever they want to leech.[/quote]

This is very true, a lot of my so called first just need some attacker or someone to hs and when someone better comes along i just get replaced.

@Xploithero: wth are you on about...

Quite different from when LHC had first come out and everyone attacked constantly usually.

Leechers (with exceptions of BT, HS, Kanna because I do admit I wont train without them) are one thing I'll have to admit I'm sick of in YMCK at the moment. I train daily at HoH for quite awhile and my server knows it and have since labelled me as an attacker. No I'm not one of those 1 hit whole map classes, but I do 1 shot every mob I hit. Problem now is I have lvl 200+ asking me daily to leech them while they sit back and get to 210 or higher by leeching. I was ok with that for a little while since I almost always had a second attacker which has since started to become less frequent but what annoys me more is the second I stop attacking or want to take a break the party dies or they wait for me to resume attacking or if I'm not leader of the party (which I've now gotten into the habit of making my own and not giving up leader) I get expelled. This is getting annoying when I see myself leeching lvl 200+ with full RA gear and some tyrant who just sit there and don't move when I say brb someone take over. I've actually gotten into the habit of if the person that joins my party doesn't attack or offer to depending on if I want a break, I expell them on the spot or if they leech longer then they attacked I replace them because I'm tired of the lazy people who are achieving 210 or higher with minimal effort.

[quote=IntDit]Things got bad because its a profit based game. A lot of benefits/advantages have been added that makes people who pay2play have a better experience. The gap is huge between the rich and the poor, and although nexon releases a lot of set effects to help close that gap, it isn't nearly enough to close it. People who pay to get better gear generally do more damage, and level faster. So why should people who don't pay have to wait and take their time? If a funded person can go from 175-200 in less than a week because they can 1-2hit K.O HoH mobs then why should people who don;t pay have to train even longer when they can just piggy back off of the funded characters?

I understand what you talking about though, this AFK culture in maplestory is really annoying, and I really miss the old LHC for this reason because finding active attacks was great. Even when i leeched people there they were generally there talking or whatever.[/quote]

I'm going to quote this cause I loved what you said.

I see that people can reach high damage status, it's just the amount of work. Everything in maple is handed to us, we don't even take ships any more. Everyone has their own base recall that can take them anywhere. Everyone is so used things now now now they forget that the really good things in life is worth working for. It's not really about who pays 2 win but who trys harder. Clearly attackers are the try hards and the leechers... well are leechers.

I think with more of a pre-4th job mentality. Those 6-man viking, squid, or gobi parties required everyone to do their part in order to get the most exp for each other. If one person stops or slows down, everyone's exp slows down. I've bonded and made many friends through partying back then. I'd have one or two new people in my buddylist every few days. Now, it's hard to find decent people to befriend. Last new person I've added to my buddy list was maybe 2 months ago. Most of them are in your party or wants to buddy you in order to gain a new attacker friend that they can call whenever they want to leech.

[quote=RichAF]Attackers are the fast trackers, they think they're too good for this low level stuff.[/quote]Wow. Big call there. As mentioned by @benjamin2708 , getting into a party or not is strongly dependent on connections. It's a MMO, networking/"socialising" is a prime aspect of the game and this will indeed get you into a party with attackers whether weak or strong.

Grinders are generally people who have the patience and persistence of sitting in-front of the computer and able to hit that one button. Yep, it's not hard but very tiresome and does everyone favour tiring tasks? I don't think so. Except for the case of 2x, you'll find that there is actually a lack of attackers who would want to attack for long periods of time. I find it just a coincident that the ones who actually can have substantial funding, but it may be because they are dedicated.

If I am to speak of my personal experience, I attack for my party AND prepare a BT and sometimes maybe a Kanna to summon kishin in the map. The other party members are either guildies or friends that I like chatting with. I allow them to attack if they desire, loot the droppings, buff as they require, however I barely request my friends to do anything. They are already doing a favour for me keeping me entertained while I do my tedious daily chore, why should I ask for more?

Needless to say I despise partying people I don't know because for one I don't know of their personality and I wouldn't know if I like them as a person or not. Yes, I've had my fair share of demanding leechers in the past and I don't think I'll ever invite a random ever again due to this but that doesn't stop anyone from trying to gain my attention. If I feel you are nice to chat with, then you'll find a place in my BL.

The other attackers in my BL also generally only party within in their micro community. We attack for each other and leech from each other.

[b]Ergo:[/b] Not everyone are like the way you have generalised leechers and attackers. The problems being faced by others are not everyone's problems and all this leeching issue has nothing to do with funding, but more on your ability to socialise.

@takemycake I think with a pre-bb mentality too.

@Windruid I agree 100% with your last paragraph, I loved twilight Perion before the nerfed. No one could leech because there was no safe place to leech. It really brought back old maple just for a small brief time. Now I'm not some whiner who misses old maple and understand change needs to happen, but the direction is going will lead to self implode. There is level 230 Kanna who is wear level 70 equips, this isn't some Kanna mule it's a legit player. Sits the bottom and just spam Kinshin over and over, get invited to every party and recruits attackers. If you're lucky he'll let you leech, sadly the best party in maple is a Bishop, Phantom, Kanna, Demonslayer, Lumi and one extra slot, people will fight for that spot. It's sicken to watch, We all should be grinding together as a team/guild/exped whatever you wanna call it,

It's been clear that most of the community has disliked leechers for the majority of Maplestory's lifespan. Although leeching no longer effects players as much as it did in the late noughties, it still shows that people still play this game even when they hate the main gameplay aspect of grinding... It has always baffled me how such a large portion of the player base insists on playing this game even when they constantly complain that the game is to boring or broken.

In short I believe people should be allowed to play however they want as long as it doesn't effect other players significantly. But I question why anyone would want to skip playing the game to get to "the end" faster... If you don't enjoy the game enough to play it's entirety, then why even play?

Wow when servers are down, everyone writes essays xD
lf> tl;dr

This annoyed me so much when I used to train at HoH. My wifey and I would get invited into parties just to have the other 4 people in the party stand around afk/chatting at the bottom of the map only to come up and buff us when it runs out. The people on the bottom shouldn't shoulder all the blame though. Nexon is equally as guilty as they are for turning the game into such a leech-fest. When you have one or two people that can kill fast enough to keep up with the spawn, the rest of the party has nothing to do. If they do decide to come help kill, and if they're lucky enough, they might be able to hit the monsters once before the stronger attacker/s kill it in 1-2hits. If it's like this, they're better off just relaxing on the bottom and saving their potions. This was the same problem at LHC - once a party was able to get itself a really good attacker, the rest of the party relaxes on the ropes because by the time they're able to walk up to the monster, it would already be dead. But that's only in a situation where you have one or two strong attackers. When you have a party with 5 average-funded players, they should be going around looking for a sixth to help kill rather than looking for a person that can one-hit-ko the monsters so they can relax on the bottom. They should be splitting up and working together to kill the monsters as a party. I know one person that's leeched all the way up to 215 and maybe higher. He doesn't even have a weapon because all he does everyday is sit on the bottom of HoH to leech. He spams his buddy list "L> attacker for HoH that can 1-hit" whenever his strong attacker is done training and leaves. I don't even know why people bother playing the game when all you do is sit there staring at their screen and chatting once in a while.

As an attacker, I have no choice but to add people into a party if I want as much exp as possible. If you can get 4b exp/hr versus 2b exp/hr, of course any sensible person would choose 4b. Why use up double the amount of time+effort to get the same amount of exp? I'd rather people try to make an effort to attack though. At least show me that you're not one of those lazy leechers and I wouldn't mind adding you again next time I train and need people in my party. We can become friends and I wouldn't even mind bringing you to bosses when I have extra slots or helping you whenever I can. I'll pick these people over those afk leechers on the bottom any day.

It's because people sit and leech all the time that they do not know how to use their characters. I bring people to bosses from time to time just so they have something new to enjoy and experience. Once they get inside bosses like chaos pink bean, empress, gollux, or even something easy like chaos zakum, they end up wasting my time and effort by killing themselves in very stupid ways. I understand if it's their first time, but second? Third? Forth? Fifth? Really? It's not because they don't have the hp or because they're not strong enough. It's because they never actually play their characters that they don't know how to control it properly.

Like I said earlier, it's not entirely the players fault that they have nothing to do in strong parties or that they become so accustomed to being leeched. If Nexon/nexonkorea would release better training grounds for higher leveled people, the stronger and more funded people wouldn't all be stuck in one area. The mixed golems at twilight perion was a very good alternative to HoH for higher-leveled players till they nerfed it. The spawn was amazing even without a kanna there to max it out and for most parties, it required at least 2-4 people all attacking to utilize the map and exp to its fullest. Very rarely would you find a person strong enough and fast enough to solo the entire map. Also, since it's only 20% bonus exp per person, the attacker/s will actually lose more exp than they'll gain with the more useless afk members they add to the party. Therefore, only the useful people that actually attacked were added.

Well, in general, I'm inclined to think critiques of the game like this are at least half joking. I mean, are you seriously planning to tell me leechers are the main problem in MS? Not the hackers, dupers, and scammers? But well, I'll give my opinion as though you're being serious.

[quote=RichAF]@ZuaDrago this is a big one. It sort of annoys me I see someone "Afk attacking" and the other 5 people are just afk as well. The whole map is dead, just machines doing all the work now. No joy, No effort just emptiness. At least they're the 134324553 Hero to reach level 200... so worth?[/quote]

First of all, no one does this. At the very least, the attacker needs to be paying attention, spinning parties excepted, in order to efficiently kill the map. Second, you care too much. So other people leech, why exactly does this bother you? Quite simply, it's their business whether they prefer to leech or attack. In your party, you can decide who you want to expel or stay around, but it's not your party.

[quote=RichAF]That's the problem, people can't enjoy whatever class they want to play. Reason being they aren't playing it, just leeching. Certain classes can't even get into parties cause they are labelled useless or I'd rather have a BT over a Mercedes... so they make a BT cause they'll level faster.[/quote]

Sorry if this sounds tautological, but you can play whatever class you want to play and enjoy any class you find fun. There is no such thing as a class that can't get into a party. There are people who are annoying, characters that are poorly funded, and bishops that don't cast HS on time. These people have issues getting into parties, not the class as a whole. If you want evidence of this, just look at the rankings for any low dps class you care to name. You can clearly see that even though they have horrible dps, there are still people who train on them. You have it backwards, people don't play the characters calculated to let them level fastest, they play the characters they enjoy, then fund those characters so they can level faster.

[quote=fmonglobal]Personally, I don't think leeching is that bad a problem. There are far worse problems with Nexon and Maplestory.

But if you do think it's a big problem, the onus is definitely on Nexon and how they've constructed the exp shared in a party, the mechanics behind party play, and such.[/quote]

Personally I think you're a problem, gaining illegit items through exploits than trying to sell them on basil while spamming you're useless threads, go ahead mods ban me for speaking UP, just like the whites suppressed the blacks in the past. But there will be one day where mods thank members of the community since mods are incapable of detectingm every person who breaks the rules

In all honesty, it really is difficult to split attacking duties at Hall of Honour into any more than two parts at this point, especially with the advent of 10-attack scrolls and such. Some people are fully capable of solo-attacking at the map. The rich-poor gap is mostly to blame for this phenomenon, but is there really anything to do at this point past level 200, other than train? Is there any other good way to gain EXP, or even to kill time? As far as I know, the only alternatives are talking to friends (Which you can easily do while doing other things) and repeating the mundane task known as Daily RA/Gollux runs.

As for "useless classes not being able to get into parties", that's seldom a problem if you use your connections. There honestly shouldn't be any problems with finding parties if you have a decent amount of acquaintances. Even someone like me, who barely knows anyone outside of my alliance, have no problems finding a party to join when need be, whether to attack or leech.

Also, the attack/leech discrepancy is not necessarily a curse; it grants mutual benefit. Players who are fully capable of solo-attacking would definitely much prefer the solo-EXP gain, which is higher than a split-attack EXP gain by many factors. Players who are lazier, or do not have the time, can simply sit in the party for an extended period of time, and gain a decent amount of exp, albeit far lower than the attacker's EXP gain. Also, do keep in mind that HoH is a party play zone, meaning the experience gain increases proportionally to the number of members present.

Not being able to enjoy specific classes really isn't related to this attacker/leecher argument. Again, I personally cannot think of many things to participate in right now other than training and/or repeating mundane tasks such as daily boss runs (Which, by the way, are often considered too-easy for the more funded) and the mundane tasks of leaf-farming and the sort.

To sum it up, the core issue at hand isn't whether party members should attack at Hall of Honour, it's the pay-to-win nature of this game. In almost every case, the people who spend a sizable amount of money end up being the ones with 2m-2m range. The people who spend minimal to no money on the game are the weak-to-average players. I can personally testify to this, as I am not dubbed the hobo of my guild for nothing.

In fact, this pay-to-win issue is becoming worse and worse, with the implementation of Legendary-tier potentials, the massively reduced drop rate of SW equips (There was a lot of hate on the forums at the time), the highly competitive nature of Dojo, stronger scrolls, and whatnot. Unless Nexon changes their ways of running the game, such that less well-off players are able to enjoy the game their own way as well, this situation will only get worse.

[quote=Polearbear]No mention of ksers, yet complains about leeching and people being lazy. Some of us can't do anything like the post above. [/quote]

No kses any more not because they've stopped on their own it cause they can't. There is really no point in ksing because you train more effectively in a party than training alone. Also for low levels you just party quest until you go insane.

you're generalizing too much and giving too many details
you're talking as if all leechers and attackers are the way you just described... and that's not always the case.
you cant just associate 'laziness' with all leechers and having pride for all attackers.

i really never understood the hypocrisy of people bashing on leechers.
people are always recruiting for leechers, ESPECIALLY attackers, because leechers contribute to the party whether they are doing anything or not.
why else would there be a need for people to recruit leechers?
i know several people that prefer to attack alone or with a few people because too many people attacking at once just causes lag and you cant see anything(inefficient).
so if people want to maximize their party exp and increase efficiency, isnt it logical that leechers are essential to a 'good' party?
i get that the game was designed so that people work for their levels but honestly, it goes back to efficiency.
whether someone decides to place more value on one method of leveling over the other is an individual issue and quite frankly, i dont think people should care so much on how others spend their time on maple if it is not directly influencing their experience on maple in a negative way.

[quote=Ksixaij]on 2x this sunday i got in a pty like u descbribe and i got kicked in like 10min as a fp; but i still managed to train for the 4hours by finding someone else in the same situation, then finding 2 ppl training on another channel and then inviting friends to all attack! but ya if youre not a godly attacker or supportive job hoh can be very frustrating sometimes[/quote]

You are my perfect example on how much maple has changed in the sense of party wise. You didn't ask too leech or you didn't have the 1 hit ko's people want, there are way too many classes that people feel are required in a party.

[quote=RichAF]There is no such thing as a buffer class no offence but there are supportive classes like bishops since day 1. Most classes have some kind of full map attack, some of them even get it at first job...[/quote]

so a bishop who doesnt use hs isnt buffing their attacker? a phantom using 3 buffs to aid their main attacker isnt buffing? a BT using card BUFFS isnt buffing? if youre thinking about support classes label kannas and afk BT's instead

First of all, I also don't see a need to complain about gap between rich and poor... It is really easy to make meso now if you really want to. Most of my guildies start with not much things, but they worked hard and earned their own meso. It's really just the difference between lazy, and hard working people.
I also don't see what's wrong with what you are talking about. Strong attackers naturally wants leechers so they get max exp out of it, lazy people will always just look for strong attacker to leech them, and they go well with each other. I mean there is no need to put blame on anyone.... If you were referring to your case where parties got disband because you can't 1hit mobs, then why not try solo the map. Eventually people will want to join you. That's what I usually do if I want a pt, pick a popular channel that's empty, and just start attacking there, and people will come to join your pt, if they start to leech you can just tell them not to, or you need to kick. If you have been told to not attack then just leave pt the next time, and you don't need to deal with them.
I agree with what @Spanish said lol if you don't get where the fun is, you probably need to just stop playing.

I'm 221, and leeching off of a luminous is faster for me, than actually training. It's sad.

My problem in R&J is that some classes have no choice but to leech. There are classes that can attack both platforms, WA for example. leaving no where for you to kill.

[quote=KyleHeII007]buffers and leechers are 2 different things. not all classes can full map attack some just have an extra advantage over others. just look at top 5 ranks[/quote]

There is no such thing as a buffer class no offence but there are supportive classes like bishops since day 1. Most classes have some kind of full map attack, some of them even get it at first job...

[quote=RichAF]That's the problem, people can't enjoy whatever class they want to play. Reason being they aren't playing it, just leeching. Certain classes can't even get into parties cause they are labelled useless or I'd rather have a BT over a Mercedes... so they make a BT cause they'll level faster.[/quote]

on 2x this sunday i got in a pty like u descbribe and i got kicked in like 10min as a fp; but i still managed to train for the 4hours by finding someone else in the same situation, then finding 2 ppl training on another channel and then inviting friends to all attack! but ya if youre not a godly attacker or supportive job hoh can be very frustrating sometimes

[quote=Fatalerror]I blame the players.

the problem isn't that u can do it, but people want to do it[/quote]

nope.

wrong wrong wrong

[quote=juarmo]its hall of honOR, nub! This game is based in the UNITED STATES, and you WILL be expected to use PROPER grammar for americans when you play an American game.

Also, the game calls it hall of honor, even if honor was a made up spelling, it's still the name of the map![/quote]

GG, it's vocabulary, not grammar. Learn before you attempt to criticize.
The game is based on the maple world, even though currently Nexon America owns it. Doesn't mean this game is based "in" UnitedStates kkk

[quote=RichAF]That's the problem, people can't enjoy whatever class they want to play. Reason being they aren't playing it, just leeching. Certain classes can't even get into parties cause they are labelled useless or I'd rather have a BT over a Mercedes... so they make a BT cause they'll level faster.[/quote]

Make your own parties, invite your friends. There's literally nothing that could go wrong with that.

its hall of honOR, nub! This game is based in the UNITED STATES, and you WILL be expected to use PROPER grammar for americans when you play an American game.

Also, the game calls it hall of honor, even if honor was a made up spelling, it's still the name of the map!

[quote=Obstracity]If you're complaining about this "game being too easy" and how leeching ruined the game, then set your own limits and play. Just saying, making OP classes doesn't affect a thing if you dont have funds. Your definition of "attackers" makes no sense - people play whatever class they enjoy.[/quote]

That's the problem, people can't enjoy whatever class they want to play. Reason being they aren't playing it, just leeching. Certain classes can't even get into parties cause they are labelled useless or I'd rather have a BT over a Mercedes... so they make a BT cause they'll level faster.

I blame the players.

the problem isn't that u can do it, but people want to do it

It's fine.. I'm weak myself yet I still leech my party they're all my friends. I've gotten them pretty far considering that I barely train as much o.o
Also, I always make my own party.

You complain as if you can't do anything about it. If you want to attack, then attack. Just know that if you're the only one with HS around then why not HS? It benefits everyone including you.

If you're complaining about this "game being too easy" and how leeching ruined the game, then set your own limits and play. Just saying, making OP classes doesn't affect a thing if you dont have funds. Your definition of "attackers" makes no sense - people play whatever class they enjoy.

This leecher - attacker thing was all started by 4th job mages and genesis and blizzard....

buffers and leechers are 2 different things. not all classes can full map attack some just have an extra advantage over others. just look at top 5 ranks

@ZuaDrago this is a big one. It sort of annoys me I see someone "Afk attacking" and the other 5 people are just afk as well. The whole map is dead, just machines doing all the work now. No joy, No effort just emptiness. At least they're the 134324553 Hero to reach level 200... so worth?

[quote=howyoudoin]I blame Nexon for not giving us more high-levelled content to keep us interested (seriously, levelling my Zero to 180 by doing quests was probably the most satisfying thing I've done on Maple since Big Bang, and even that required a Quest 2x EXP Coupon).[/quote]

I blame Nexon. I grinded to 200 with full active parties but then Nexon had to be Nexon and increased the level cap to 250 and I refuse to keep on grinding. Plus, Nexon had to create link skill mules and even more grinding. Then they had to add new classes and people want to main those but do not want to keep on grinding. Nexon was just begging for leechers. My dream was to get to level 200 then just go to bosses and do events and help people out. The only help people want now is someone to leech them so they can play with their new characters. Nexon needs to stop with all the new classes and come up with more content besides "Here is a new char for you to grind with."

Blame is on Nexon for not constructing non-leech maps like SH. Also they'd need to get rid of chairs that have the character hover over the mobs too.

Things got bad because its a profit based game. A lot of benefits/advantages have been added that makes people who pay2play have a better experience. The gap is huge between the rich and the poor, and although nexon releases a lot of set effects to help close that gap, it isn't nearly enough to close it. People who pay to get better gear generally do more damage, and level faster. So why should people who don't pay have to wait and take their time? If a funded person can go from 175-200 in less than a week because they can 1-2hit K.O HoH mobs then why should people who don;t pay have to train even longer when they can just piggy back off of the funded characters?

I understand what you talking about though, this AFK culture in maplestory is really annoying, and I really miss the old LHC for this reason because finding active attacks was great. Even when i leeched people there they were generally there talking or whatever.

People will [i]almost[/i] always choose the easiest route. They exploit everything as much as possible. For example, I doubt the people who thought up Kannas and Kishin Shoukan intended for it to be used on an empty platform so Kannas can stand around and do nothing all the time.

Idk about you, but whenever there's a party with some rude person I just leave. No one's forcing you to have to deal with anyone else's bs, after all.

leechers leeching off hacking attackers.

Personally, I don't think leeching is that bad a problem. There are far worse problems with Nexon and Maplestory.

But if you do think it's a big problem, the onus is definitely on Nexon and how they've constructed the exp shared in a party, the mechanics behind party play, and such.

turn down for what?

People lazy people no work people blame nexon- in short

OP: I think i still blame nexon.

[quote=Spanish]Just play and get fun, that's it, don't worry.[/quote]

Is... fun some kind of a currency? I'm confused... fun... what's the c/o?

Just play and get fun, that's it, don't worry.