General

[quote=zoneflare2]But isnt that what happens when someone dies. Its like even though they were a horrible person people still will talk about them like they were a saint.[/quote]

Yep, and it's dumb. I'm sure she was a good person (she was apparently being abused by her boyfriend or something like that, not sure what the story is), but no one should be praised for killing themselves unless it's some type of noble sacrifice for others. There's articles of guys taking bullets for their girlfriends to save their lives, at the cost of their own. Those guys knew they would die and they didn't hesitate. They deserve infinite respect. Not some girl that didn't give rational thinking more thought.

A girl in my senior year of high school killed herself. Next thing I know, she's being praised all over the place. It's like killing yourself is the gateway to oodles of respect in stupid teenage communities. And what bothers me the most is people saying "Rest in peace ____ < 3" because if she's resting anywhere, I'm pretty sure the belief system says it's not in a peaceful place.

[quote=DeniseWong]@FortMinor: I think a combination of factors makes one suicidal. Depression and stress seem to be correlated, but of course do not CAUSE one to commit suicide. There's so many other factors as well, as i mentioned before, your interpersonal relationships correlates with rates of suicide as well (as found from Durkheim's study).[/quote]
I actually ment to agree with your last post, except for the part where you apologized for something that wasn't your fault. haha
@TrueAthiest See that is where the ideals I mentioned come into play, I don't think someone should care what other think of them when they are doing something that brings them happiness or is inspired by love.

Life is pointless, and full of pain, people can decide for themselves if they want it or not, if it was someone close to me I would be sad but I wouldn't be morally outraged or hold them in contempt, it was their life and they could do they wanted with it.

@FortMinor Just an example, that Tyler Clementi guy who killed himself because his roommate secretly video taped him doing stuff with another dude exposing that he was gay. He was in University with amazing grades, had a lot going for him, had goals, had ambition, was part of the school band. But the embarrassment of everyone seeing the video caused him to kill himself.

@FortMinor: I think a combination of factors makes one suicidal. Depression and stress seem to be correlated, but of course do not CAUSE one to commit suicide. There's so many other factors as well, as i mentioned before, your interpersonal relationships correlates with rates of suicide as well (as found from Durkheim's study).

@TrueAtheist I was speaking purely on my opinion, seeing as I'm not omniscient I can't really fathom why someone who isn't lacking in ambition and ideals would commit suicide, social isolation might cause depression but the two are totally different. I'd also like to see the facts behind the engineer statement.

@DeniseWong I didn't mean it to say I've had a tough life, I was just trying to point out depression and stress don't make you suicidal.

@ClementZ Compared to living of course, to commit suicide you obviously have to be afraid of something else in LIFE more.

[quote=Demonlord]I'm not stupid . . .[/quote]

But according to you our generation is the stupidest generation to ever exist.

It's ok

[quote=FortMinor]I don't think stress and depression should be viable excuses or causes, I think it has more to do with the individuals ideals and ambition. As of now I'm 17 years old, I was supposed to be put on anxiety and depression meds awhile back and with my mother working 6 days a week and MIA 90% of the time I've half raised myself; that being said I think it has more to do with what the person wants to achieve in life. It's nothing to think about suicide or blow off a few things in a depressed/stress mood. It's another thing entirely to completely give up EVERYTHING. What I mean is to commit suicide you've got to have little to no goals in life, just depression or stress isn't going to cause suicide.

Many people just EXIST, because like they are too scared to face the problem/fears standing in the way of their ambitions, they're also too scared for the alternative which would be suicide. Few people actually live and thrive. Suicide is the easy way out.[/quote]

Suicide is easy?
Compared to what, exactly?

@FortMinor: I'm sorry to hear that you've had such a tough life. Of course stress and depression alone won't be enough to cause suicide, but higher rates of stress and depression with the inability to use appropriate coping strategies correlates positively to the rates of suicide. And ambition and achievement, too, I agree, are extravaneous variables in this correlation.

Suicidal tendencies can be biological...

[quote=FortMinor]I don't think stress and depression should be viable excuses or causes, I think it has more to do with the individuals ideals and ambition. As of now I'm 17 years old, I was supposed to be put on anxiety and depression meds awhile back and with my mother working 6 days a week and MIA 90% of the time I've half raised myself; that being said I think it has more to do with what the person wants to achieve in life. It's nothing to think about suicide or blow off a few things in a depressed/stress mood. It's another thing entirely to completely give up EVERYTHING. What I mean is to commit suicide you've got to have little to no goals in life, just depression or stress isn't going to cause suicide.[/quote]

Don't mean to sound harsh, but you're completely wrong. If that were true then you wouldn't see a higher suicide rate amongst engineering students and engineering universities. These people have goals, and when they fail to achieve them the stress/depression can cause them to commit suicide.

Also, all modern scientific literature on the topic of depression/social isolation would disagree with you.

The brain and psychology has everything to do with it.

in the eyes of society he was guilty, i say it's a coward, if you're treated as guilty why not try to take a gun from one of the jeilers and try to break free? what's the worst case scenario? end up dead? ...

[quote=DeniseWong]Well, on an individual level, I think those who commit suicide are NOT cowards like those reporters say, rather, I think those who commit suicide are suffering from stress, depression, illness or situational factors. I also believe that those who commit suicide have a relatively low self-esteem at the point of the suicide, that is to say that they do not have the unrealistic optimism that a secure high self-esteem person (an average person) has. Furthermore, I think it depends on coping as well. The person important to you was unable to cope with all the pressures that he faced at that point in life.
On a macroanalysis level, I believe that those who commit suicide are not anchored into society or are TOO anchored into society. Like a bell curve, you are most stable when you have interpresonal relationships (friends, marriage...etc.). Individuals on either end of the scale, no social relations (either with no friends nor family) or too attached to social relations (those in a religious group who are WILLING to commit suicide for the group like suicide bombers) are at a higher risk of commiting suicide. The person who was close to you had friends and family, but the isolation in jail made him dissociate with them. Furthermore, he wasn't married, which heightens his chances of commiting suicide. Also, in jail, it's a mess with vague rules and regulations (people beat each other up...etc.), which also contributes to suicide
In essence, I believe that it's of course NOT a good thing that they died. However, I also believe that if humans were to end his or her life, it would've been a well thought out decision from factoring in pros and cons from his or her point of view. It might not be the best decision, but for sure, lots of thought were given into that.[/quote]

I don't think stress and depression should be viable excuses or causes, I think it has more to do with the individuals ideals and ambition. As of now I'm 17 years old, I was supposed to be put on anxiety and depression meds awhile back and with my mother working 6 days a week and MIA 90% of the time I've half raised myself; that being said I think it has more to do with what the person wants to achieve in life. It's nothing to think about suicide or blow off a few things in a depressed/stress mood. It's another thing entirely to completely give up EVERYTHING. What I mean is to commit suicide you've got to have little to no goals in life, just depression or stress isn't going to cause suicide.

[quote=TrueAtheist]Death is the easy way out? If that were true than everyone would be offing themselves because like you say it's the "easy way out".

Contrary to your opinion it's actually the most difficult way out, living is the easy way out that's why most people live.[/quote]

Many people just EXIST, because like they are too scared to face the problem/fears standing in the way of their ambitions, they're also too scared for the alternative which would be suicide. Few people actually live and thrive. Suicide is the easy way out.

I don't think they are a coward. Personally I can't comprehend doing that to myself, but I could imagine that if I really lost my will to find enjoyment in life & hope it could seem like a possibility.

I think it's very scary.

If someone finds their life to be so bad that they need to commit suicide, who am I, the outsider that is not experiencing what said person is experiencing, to judge?

[b]If someone commits suicide he/she is a coward?[/b] Depends. For some, it is simple as snapping your fingers.

[b]Is it a good thing he/she is gone?[/b] No. I don't see the direct pros that go along with it.

[quote=Demonlord]Is someone that commits suicide a coward? Yes, death is the easy way out.

Would you think it's a "good thing" that they died? As cruel as it sounds, yes. People who kill themselves rather than facing things or going through it aren't needed.[/quote]

Death is the easy way out? If that were true than everyone would be offing themselves because like you say it's the "easy way out".

Contrary to your opinion it's actually the most difficult way out, living is the easy way out that's why most people live.

People who have the willpower to commit suicide are not cowards in my opinion. Having the guts to hold a gun to your head and pull the trigger takes more guts and is more difficult of a task than anything I can imagine.

Everybody lives subjective lives, you have to realize that if someone's life is so bad [b]to them[/b] that death is the better alternative, then who are we to judge them?

Well, on an individual level, I think those who commit suicide are NOT cowards like those reporters say, rather, I think those who commit suicide are suffering from stress, depression, illness or situational factors. I also believe that those who commit suicide have a relatively low self-esteem at the point of the suicide, that is to say that they do not have the unrealistic optimism that a secure high self-esteem person (an average person) has. Furthermore, I think it depends on coping as well. The person important to you was unable to cope with all the pressures that he faced at that point in life.
On a macroanalysis level, I believe that those who commit suicide are not anchored into society or are TOO anchored into society. Like a bell curve, you are most stable when you have interpresonal relationships (friends, marriage...etc.). Individuals on either end of the scale, no social relations (either with no friends nor family) or too attached to social relations (those in a religious group who are WILLING to commit suicide for the group like suicide bombers) are at a higher risk of commiting suicide. The person who was close to you had friends and family, but the isolation in jail made him dissociate with them. Furthermore, he wasn't married, which heightens his chances of commiting suicide. Also, in jail, it's a mess with vague rules and regulations (people beat each other up...etc.), which also contributes to suicide
In essence, I believe that it's of course NOT a good thing that they died. However, I also believe that if humans were to end his or her life, it would've been a well thought out decision from factoring in pros and cons from his or her point of view. It might not be the best decision, but for sure, lots of thought were given into that.

Suicide is the ultimate act of selfishness, and in my opinion it is the greatest sign of weakness. Everyone has (or at least should have) some type of dream, goal or ambition in life and to commit suicide is to give up and let the world win; life is tough it's not for the weak. In short yes I think he was a coward, however I do not think it is a good thing he died as he obliviously affected his loved ones in his selfishness.
[quote=qwedsa87]I see it either as a extremely strong will, or a completely broken one. Contemplating suicide is nothing, however the actual action.. The amount of willpower you need to proceed with it is simply unbelievable to me. I do not see cowardice in suicide.[/quote]
I'd have to strongly disagree people who commit suicide aren't brave their weak minded and looking for an escape from what they aren't strong enough to face.

[quote=zoneflare2]I wouldnt help them when i was suicidal no one was there for me so why should i be there for them. Well there was one person i helped before and they turned out to be a horrible person that turned on me so i refuse to help anyone like that again.[/quote]

You can help them without being involved much by telling them to call a suicide hotline..and see a psychologist.

@Uhmanda: Thanks aha. Things will be okay. You just mentioned something that struck to me though. He WAS young, he was in his twenties. It wasn't like "oh he murdered someone" type of crime. He could still get his life back on track, and with all his supporters, I'm sure he could have.

you shouldn't talk about serious things on basil

They're either in pain or fear life.

I see it either as a extremely strong will, or a completely broken one. Contemplating suicide is nothing, however the actual action.. The amount of willpower you need to proceed with it is simply unbelievable to me. I do not see cowardice in suicide.

People who commit suicide have guts . . . . . If i could, i would just kill myself right now not that my life's bad or anything, just better if i don't have to do anything.

Human rights. kill yourself. go for it.
but that's not what you're asking.
Coward because he was afraid of facing the consequences of his actions. Assuming he was guilty.
-Also weak minded. Actually giving a a second thought to what others think about him.
Courageous in a sense that he offed himself. big gonads

If they want to end their lives, who are we to force them to live.

Plus it does help with the population.