It definitely is, but not in westernized countries. Feminists already won and overpowered in western countries and they are still trying for more.
But in other countries in the middle east, like someone before me mentioned, feminism could definitely be relevant. At the same time though, that would tear apart the entire fabric their societies were founded upon so I'm not sure I want that happening over there either.
[quote=acuppa]Not strawman representations of feminists. My point being, if you're willing to marginalize proponents of feminism, that doesn't reflect well on your attitude toward positive social changes and gender equality.[/quote]
[quote=DaTruStrDit]Explain the term "Real Women"[/quote] Not strawman representations of feminists. My point being, if you're willing to marginalize proponents of feminism, that doesn't reflect well on your attitude toward positive social changes and gender equality.
[quote=acuppa]Well, just page through this thread and look at all of the posts that ridicule feminism and portray it as a "women over men" power dynamic. If these people are so eager to tout stereotypes and strawmen, what does that bode for the condition of real women now and in the future?[/quote]
i'm disturbed by how most everyone in the thread is only bringing up situations in third world countries as if feminism has dried up and died in the first world just because we're not in the 50s anymore and women do things most men do. it's not that simple. it's a cheap and easy way to ignore problems. [url=http://31.media.tumblr.com/279815400ad65a37187b4766ca64f088/tumblr_mjzv1uWwdd1qjis8mo1_500.jpg]example.[/url] honestly feminism is more than just wanting equal pay, it touches on so many other issues made by patriarchy that also affect men in a negative way too.
Well, just page through this thread and look at all of the posts that ridicule feminism and portray it as a "women over men" power dynamic. If these people are so eager to tout stereotypes and strawmen, what does that bode for the condition of real women now and in the future?
[quote=metaghost4]I'm for women's rights, but it's hard sometimes treating them like equals when the majority of them hurt you or piss you off.[/quote]
[quote=ox0Shad0w0xo]I agree that it's not as much of an issue in developed countries and the "feminists" in the US tend to start fights simply because men are involved, rather than fight [i]actual[/i] discrimination. Like when someone holds the door open for them and they fly off the handle at how the guys is a sexist pig for doing that. Or if you compliment her on her looks, you're also a pig for thinking women are only for sex, even though your comment had nothing to do with sex. There are far worse things women go through in other parts of the world.
Take Saudi Arabia, women are treated as if they're infantile, and their ability to move around, unaccompanied by a male guardian, is severely restricted. Women are banned from driving. They cannot go to coffee shops or restaurants with a male friend. And according to Saudi law, a woman cannot decide for herself to go on religious pilgrimage. She must have a man's approval and be accompanied by her guardian.
They are treated in ways that make many parts of the world shake their heads in disbelief. Like the [url=http://www.examiner.com/article/victim-sentenced-200-lashes-by-saudi-court]victim[/url] that got 200 lashes. Or how about the unmarried woman in Africa. Allegedly, she had relations with a married man. She got pregnant. The woman was condemned by Sharia for adultery and was to be stoned (post partum)to death by law. The man received no sentence. Or a 17 year old girl in Kurdish, Iraq was stoned to death by relatives and neighbors in the public square. It was even recorded on cell phones. Her crime: walking with a man from another religious group. The examples go on. Women complaining about men opening the door for them because they are female need a reality check.
So it's relevant in this day and age, but more so, to the women who face genuine problems. Not the "He talked to me, what a misogynist pig" feminism. The world would be better if that kind of logic died out lol.[/quote]
Agree with you completely. I think females wanting equality is reasonable and feminism in theory is a very good thing, but the application at least where I live is very skewed. The other day I saw a woman yell at a man because he opened a door for her for being sexist. That's not cool.
Feminism is a very flawed concept right now, especially since there are (at least) two main views with feminists, sex positive, and the ones that are against it. Also most 'feminists' are complete idiots, although my exposure has been from the internet so it is obviously biased.
I'm all for Equal Rights Activists though.
edit: this is referring to first world countries mind you.
[quote=DIEgusie]People still view women as less than men and that is not okay.[/quote]
You cannot argue the fact that females are biologically weaker than males so it's not easy to permit any women in physically demanding jobs, that's why feminist are asking to lower the standards for women to serve in combat or work at an oilrig.
[quote=DIEgusie]Feminism is an idea of everyone being treated equally no matter their interests. If a girl wants to be a plumber she can be a plumber and not be ridiculed for it. A man should be allowed to be a "stay at home dad" and not made fun of or that gets rid of his manhood. Being called girly should not be an insult. People still view women as less than men and that is not okay. Some people still make a stereotype for women and if a women does not follow that then she is made fun of for it. Just like it is not right to make a generalization for a race, or everyone in a country. It is not right to make one for a gender and expect them to act that way or fall into it. Man or woman, people should be allowed to be themselves even if it is against most without ridicule. Therefore it is still relevant.[/quote]
except feminism isn't about equal rights anymore, it's about female superiority.
I agree that it's not as much of an issue in developed countries and the "feminists" in the US tend to start fights simply because men are involved, rather than fight [i]actual[/i] discrimination. Like when someone holds the door open for them and they fly off the handle at how the guys is a sexist pig for doing that. Or if you compliment her on her looks, you're also a pig for thinking women are only for sex, even though your comment had nothing to do with sex. There are far worse things women go through in other parts of the world.
Take Saudi Arabia, women are treated as if they're infantile, and their ability to move around, unaccompanied by a male guardian, is severely restricted. Women are banned from driving. They cannot go to coffee shops or restaurants with a male friend. And according to Saudi law, a woman cannot decide for herself to go on religious pilgrimage. She must have a man's approval and be accompanied by her guardian.
They are treated in ways that make many parts of the world shake their heads in disbelief. Like the [url=http://www.examiner.com/article/victim-sentenced-200-lashes-by-saudi-court]victim[/url] that got 200 lashes. Or how about the unmarried woman in Africa. Allegedly, she had relations with a married man. She got pregnant. The woman was condemned by Sharia for adultery and was to be stoned (post partum)to death by law. The man received no sentence. Or a 17 year old girl in Kurdish, Iraq was stoned to death by relatives and neighbors in the public square. It was even recorded on cell phones. Her crime: walking with a man from another religious group. The examples go on. Women complaining about men opening the door for them because they are female need a reality check.
So it's relevant in this day and age, but more so, to the women who face genuine problems. Not the "He talked to me, what a misogynist pig" feminism. The world would be better if that kind of logic died out lol.
[quote=DaTruStrDit]My answer is nope. Unless you can back up your points. [/quote] I guess women being denied the right to education in many countries in the 3rd world doesn't count right? Or men in the first world being demeaned for taking on "feminine" roles doesn't count? Or girls still being shamed (and in less developed countries killed) because they get sexually assaulted even though it wasn't even their fault? Men not even being recognized as potential victims of things like domestic abuse? Keep being ignorant of the state of things, buddy.
We don't need feminism in most developed countries anymore. Now since society is more gender-equal than before (at least in US, Canada, western European countries, tiny developed East Asian countries like Taiwan, Korea, Japan, and Singapore), I think feminism had done its job and should retire by now. It's a good time to consider gender equality rather than taking sides.
In North America, and probably many other developed countries, it has really lost its meaning. It's just a scapegoat word used by many gender supremacists. Its original purpose was to advocate female political rights, which isn't really relevant anymore as the only miniority that is facing any of these sort of problems really are the LGBT community. In many other developing countries though, gender inequality is still a major problem. Women are treated very poorly in most of these places, and in some, they are even denied the basic rights that everyone deserves.
Gender roles have always been present, affecting both genders. As long as there is something to define a 'girl' and a 'boy', there will always be a least a slight sense of divide between male and female.
My best friends sister is a feminist. I'm cool with it for the most part but sometimes she just gets kind of annoying. We were talking once as a large group and one person referred to Women as "Females" and she got mad saying stuff like "We're not animals, we're human beings...Refer to us as Women" Something along the lines of that. It was quite annoying because he didn't mean anything by it.
[quote=DIEgusie]Feminism is an idea of everyone being treated equally no matter their interests. If a girl wants to be a plumber she can be a plumber and not be ridiculed for it. A man should be allowed to be a "stay at home dad" and not made fun of or that gets rid of his manhood. Being called girly should not be an insult. People still view women as less than men and that is not okay. Some people still make a stereotype for women and if a women does not follow that then she is made fun of for it. Just like it is not right make a generalization for a race, or everyone in a country. It is not right to make one for a gender and expect them to act that way or fall into it. Man or woman, people should be allowed to be themselves even if it is against most without ridicule. Therefore it is still relevant.[/quote]
Great post! But, some feminists really dont give a rat's *** about men. lol
[quote=ChildsPlay]Do women in the world still get denied basic rights solely because they're women? Do men and women still get discriminated based on society's preconceived notions of what is "masculine" or "feminine"? The answer to these questions are the same as the answer to yours.[/quote]
My answer is nope. Unless you can back up your points.
Do women in the world still get denied basic rights solely because they're women? Do men and women still get discriminated based on society's preconceived notions of what is "masculine" or "feminine"? The answer to these questions are the same as the answer to yours.
33 Comments • Newest first
It definitely is, but not in westernized countries.
Feminists already won and overpowered in western countries and they are still trying for more.
But in other countries in the middle east, like someone before me mentioned, feminism could definitely be relevant.
At the same time though, that would tear apart the entire fabric their societies were founded upon so I'm not sure I want that happening over there either.
[quote=acuppa]Not strawman representations of feminists. My point being, if you're willing to marginalize proponents of feminism, that doesn't reflect well on your attitude toward positive social changes and gender equality.[/quote]
How does that make any sense? O.o
[quote=DaTruStrDit]Explain the term "Real Women"[/quote]
Not strawman representations of feminists. My point being, if you're willing to marginalize proponents of feminism, that doesn't reflect well on your attitude toward positive social changes and gender equality.
[quote=SomeJello]Feminism is a disease[/quote]
My male teacher caught it,
[quote=acuppa]Well, just page through this thread and look at all of the posts that ridicule feminism and portray it as a "women over men" power dynamic. If these people are so eager to tout stereotypes and strawmen, what does that bode for the condition of real women now and in the future?[/quote]
Explain the term "Real Women"
i'm disturbed by how most everyone in the thread is only bringing up situations in third world countries as if feminism has dried up and died in the first world just because we're not in the 50s anymore and women do things most men do. it's not that simple. it's a cheap and easy way to ignore problems.
[url=http://31.media.tumblr.com/279815400ad65a37187b4766ca64f088/tumblr_mjzv1uWwdd1qjis8mo1_500.jpg]example.[/url]
honestly feminism is more than just wanting equal pay, it touches on so many other issues made by patriarchy that also affect men in a negative way too.
Well, just page through this thread and look at all of the posts that ridicule feminism and portray it as a "women over men" power dynamic. If these people are so eager to tout stereotypes and strawmen, what does that bode for the condition of real women now and in the future?
yes, they're still here
I only have a problem with the extremist feminists
[quote=metaghost4]I'm for women's rights, but it's hard sometimes treating them like equals when the majority of them hurt you or piss you off.[/quote]
Agree completely.
Feminists are scum. so are the beta pricks who agree with and support them
[quote=ox0Shad0w0xo]I agree that it's not as much of an issue in developed countries and the "feminists" in the US tend to start fights simply because men are involved, rather than fight [i]actual[/i] discrimination. Like when someone holds the door open for them and they fly off the handle at how the guys is a sexist pig for doing that. Or if you compliment her on her looks, you're also a pig for thinking women are only for sex, even though your comment had nothing to do with sex. There are far worse things women go through in other parts of the world.
Take Saudi Arabia, women are treated as if they're infantile, and their ability to move around, unaccompanied by a male guardian, is severely restricted. Women are banned from driving. They cannot go to coffee shops or restaurants with a male friend. And according to Saudi law, a woman cannot decide for herself to go on religious pilgrimage. She must have a man's approval and be accompanied by her guardian.
They are treated in ways that make many parts of the world shake their heads in disbelief. Like the [url=http://www.examiner.com/article/victim-sentenced-200-lashes-by-saudi-court]victim[/url] that got 200 lashes. Or how about the unmarried woman in Africa. Allegedly, she had relations with a married man. She got pregnant. The woman was condemned by Sharia for adultery and was to be stoned (post partum)to death by law. The man received no sentence. Or a 17 year old girl in Kurdish, Iraq was stoned to death by relatives and neighbors in the public square. It was even recorded on cell phones. Her crime: walking with a man from another religious group. The examples go on. Women complaining about men opening the door for them because they are female need a reality check.
So it's relevant in this day and age, but more so, to the women who face genuine problems. Not the "He talked to me, what a misogynist pig" feminism. The world would be better if that kind of logic died out lol.[/quote]
Agree with you completely. I think females wanting equality is reasonable and feminism in theory is a very good thing, but the application at least where I live is very skewed. The other day I saw a woman yell at a man because he opened a door for her for being sexist. That's not cool.
Feminism is a very flawed concept right now, especially since there are (at least) two main views with feminists, sex positive, and the ones that are against it. Also most 'feminists' are complete idiots, although my exposure has been from the internet so it is obviously biased.
I'm all for Equal Rights Activists though.
edit: this is referring to first world countries mind you.
Feminism yes. Radical Feminism no.
[quote=DIEgusie]People still view women as less than men and that is not okay.[/quote]
You cannot argue the fact that females are biologically weaker than males so it's not easy to permit any women in physically demanding jobs, that's why feminist are asking to lower the standards for women to serve in combat or work at an oilrig.
it's a waste of space.
feminism = girls rule all. we ain't having that.
[quote=DIEgusie]Feminism is an idea of everyone being treated equally no matter their interests. If a girl wants to be a plumber she can be a plumber and not be ridiculed for it. A man should be allowed to be a "stay at home dad" and not made fun of or that gets rid of his manhood. Being called girly should not be an insult. People still view women as less than men and that is not okay. Some people still make a stereotype for women and if a women does not follow that then she is made fun of for it. Just like it is not right to make a generalization for a race, or everyone in a country. It is not right to make one for a gender and expect them to act that way or fall into it. Man or woman, people should be allowed to be themselves even if it is against most without ridicule. Therefore it is still relevant.[/quote]
except feminism isn't about equal rights anymore, it's about female superiority.
I agree that it's not as much of an issue in developed countries and the "feminists" in the US tend to start fights simply because men are involved, rather than fight [i]actual[/i] discrimination. Like when someone holds the door open for them and they fly off the handle at how the guys is a sexist pig for doing that. Or if you compliment her on her looks, you're also a pig for thinking women are only for sex, even though your comment had nothing to do with sex. There are far worse things women go through in other parts of the world.
Take Saudi Arabia, women are treated as if they're infantile, and their ability to move around, unaccompanied by a male guardian, is severely restricted. Women are banned from driving. They cannot go to coffee shops or restaurants with a male friend. And according to Saudi law, a woman cannot decide for herself to go on religious pilgrimage. She must have a man's approval and be accompanied by her guardian.
They are treated in ways that make many parts of the world shake their heads in disbelief. Like the [url=http://www.examiner.com/article/victim-sentenced-200-lashes-by-saudi-court]victim[/url] that got 200 lashes. Or how about the unmarried woman in Africa. Allegedly, she had relations with a married man. She got pregnant. The woman was condemned by Sharia for adultery and was to be stoned (post partum)to death by law. The man received no sentence. Or a 17 year old girl in Kurdish, Iraq was stoned to death by relatives and neighbors in the public square. It was even recorded on cell phones. Her crime: walking with a man from another religious group. The examples go on. Women complaining about men opening the door for them because they are female need a reality check.
So it's relevant in this day and age, but more so, to the women who face genuine problems. Not the "He talked to me, what a misogynist pig" feminism. The world would be better if that kind of logic died out lol.
[quote=DaTruStrDit]My answer is nope. Unless you can back up your points. [/quote]
I guess women being denied the right to education in many countries in the 3rd world doesn't count right? Or men in the first world being demeaned for taking on "feminine" roles doesn't count? Or girls still being shamed (and in less developed countries killed) because they get sexually assaulted even though it wasn't even their fault? Men not even being recognized as potential victims of things like domestic abuse? Keep being ignorant of the state of things, buddy.
We don't need feminism in most developed countries anymore. Now since society is more gender-equal than before (at least in US, Canada, western European countries, tiny developed East Asian countries like Taiwan, Korea, Japan, and Singapore), I think feminism had done its job and should retire by now. It's a good time to consider gender equality rather than taking sides.
yes because people like to think themselves entitled based on every physical characteristic ever
In North America, and probably many other developed countries, it has really lost its meaning. It's just a scapegoat word used by many gender supremacists. Its original purpose was to advocate female political rights, which isn't really relevant anymore as the only miniority that is facing any of these sort of problems really are the LGBT community. In many other developing countries though, gender inequality is still a major problem. Women are treated very poorly in most of these places, and in some, they are even denied the basic rights that everyone deserves.
Gender roles have always been present, affecting both genders. As long as there is something to define a 'girl' and a 'boy', there will always be a least a slight sense of divide between male and female.
Feminisms dumb, too many hard ass women acting superior because they think they deserve it. Gender equality is much better.
My best friends sister is a feminist. I'm cool with it for the most part but sometimes she just gets kind of annoying. We were talking once as a large group and one person referred to Women as "Females" and she got mad saying stuff like "We're not animals, we're human beings...Refer to us as Women" Something along the lines of that. It was quite annoying because he didn't mean anything by it.
Very real and some feminists don't understand what they're fighting for...
[quote=DIEgusie]Feminism is an idea of everyone being treated equally no matter their interests. If a girl wants to be a plumber she can be a plumber and not be ridiculed for it. A man should be allowed to be a "stay at home dad" and not made fun of or that gets rid of his manhood. Being called girly should not be an insult. People still view women as less than men and that is not okay. Some people still make a stereotype for women and if a women does not follow that then she is made fun of for it. Just like it is not right make a generalization for a race, or everyone in a country. It is not right to make one for a gender and expect them to act that way or fall into it. Man or woman, people should be allowed to be themselves even if it is against most without ridicule. Therefore it is still relevant.[/quote]
Great post! But, some feminists really dont give a rat's *** about men. lol
Womens idea of feminism: Female > Male
[quote=ChildsPlay]Do women in the world still get denied basic rights solely because they're women? Do men and women still get discriminated based on society's preconceived notions of what is "masculine" or "feminine"? The answer to these questions are the same as the answer to yours.[/quote]
My answer is nope. Unless you can back up your points.
[quote=SomeJello]Feminism is a disease[/quote]
Preach on brother
Do women in the world still get denied basic rights solely because they're women? Do men and women still get discriminated based on society's preconceived notions of what is "masculine" or "feminine"? The answer to these questions are the same as the answer to yours.
It's about as real as racial differences and discrimination in the 21st century
aka very real.
Do they exist? Yeah, but it's most of it is bull.
kinda, feminists still tackle the media talking about women status, class, and how they stand compared to men.
Trick question the answer is who cares besides feminists?