Quality improving actions necessary
[header]Introduction[/header]
This thread will discuss some of the problems and flaws that I see with the current community and site. Users shouldn't be blamed for the decreasing quality of the threads.
Feel free to disagree with me!
[header][/header]
[header]QFD approach [/header]
This thread will use a popular method that's used by us engineers, it's called the QFD-method. Basically you list the following: (in the correct order)
[*] Identify the problem
[*] List the customers (users) demands and rank them
[*] Suggest possible solutions to the previously mentioned problems
In a real life scenario you should use 2 more steps but they are neither possible nor appropriate to apply to this thread.
[header]Problem [/header]
The problem that I personally see with the site in its current state is the massive amounts of new threads and the repeatedly discussed topics.
Repeatedly discussed topics include: (but is not limited to)
[*] Atheism > Christianity
[*] We really need a mobile version (off topic: there is but it's still discussed alot)
[*] My suspension was unfair
[*] Bring back custom avatars
The problem explained above is contributing to the falling quality of the threads created (I'm not saying that it's the only factor, maturity etc. needs to be taken into consideration, however, I believe that what's stated above is a contributing factor).
The above statement and problem identification is entirely based on my own observations, I've read a lot of threads, not only in the site section but on the whole forum and I think that some of my fellow basilers can agree with me.
Feel free to contribute or give the problem identification some criticism but keep those replies at a mature level. Maybe I'm just plain wrong? Comment if you want to!
[header]Demands [/header]
Below is a list of what I (and I believe other basilers want this also) want:
[*] raise the quality of the created threads
[*] DRY (=don't repeat yourself), we don't want to discuss why the custom avatars was removed 100 times
[*] more room for discussions (not forum sections, will be explained in the next section)
[*] enhance the forum functionality
[header]Solution [/header]
[b]Raise the quality of the created threads [/b]
The decreasing quality of the threads is a result of the problem stated in the problem identification section. I'm not implying that the decreasing quality is entirely due to the identified problem, the maturity needs to be taken into consideration.
I believe that a change in attitude is necessary, everyone has a negative attitude against other basilers. It's not that bad to, for once, be nice to another person, I'm not saying that we should turn this to a pink fluffy kindergarten, I just want to be able to keep the discussion in a mature level.
[b]DRY (=don't repeat yourself), we don't want to discuss why the custom avatars was removed 100 times [/b]
[i]To the mods:[/i]
Don't lock a thread that's answered, use official threads or "the big thread about xxx" instead.
Example: The big thread about custom avatars [i]or[/i] The official thread about a mobile version
I've seen some site suggestions that's been brought up a lot of times, this is a result of what's mentioned above. The old threads about the suggestions are locked or even deleted. Threads should never be deleted IMO, old threads can still be used as a reference and still be helpful.
[i]To everyone:[/i]
At least check the frontpage and check if there already is threads about the subject you have in mind. Or even better, search!
Go to google and search for "site:www.basilmarket.com YOUR_SUBJECT" and hit search. If you find threads with the search, use them instead of making a new one.
[i]Notes:[/i]
[*] The mods would probably need more power to make this suggestion possible.
[*] Small modifications to the forum required.
Wise words from Pavchka:
[quote=Pavchka]Idea: Mods get stickying powers plus the ability to make a sticky show in more than one section.[/quote]
[b]More room for discussions [/b]
Allow us to discuss topics more freely, the rules sets the limits but they can be changed if the administrator of the site finds that appropriate.
[b]Enhance the forum functionality [/b]
Create more sections, this will give the threads created a narrower reader base and readers that's actually interested in the subject. This will lower the amount of threads with similar (or identical) topics and will also lead to a quality improvement.
[header]User suggestions[/header]
[b]Wise words from iceyarcher regarding stickies and their positive effect on the problem[/b]
[quote=IceyArcher]IMO; Basil needs to bring back Stickys, per se. While keeping the official 'guides' on the sides, there should also be stickies at the top; though there should really only be a few so don't worry about a long list at the top.. Anyway Mods can add stickys for the topics that occur often.
Site would have a sticky about banned custom avatars, maybe bring back Ravkins thread for helping people figure out why they got suspended.
Chat could have the "Official List of Official Threads" and just dump the links for RL photos/tumblr/LoL/whatever the hell else was made official, and maybe some sort of thread we can shove "AH MAH GAWD DOES SHE LYK ME?" threads in.
Of course, there will ALWAYS be the people who believe what they have to say is just TOO important to be another mere post in a 200 post thread and will thus make their own thread because again, they are important. Shrug.[/quote]
[header][/header]
[header]Conclusion [/header]
According to the sections above; it's possible to make a change, however, it needs some effort and cooperation from all parts (users, mods, admins).
A quality improvement is necessary according to me, and hopefully other users as well.
(sorry for the small WOT... )
20 Comments • Newest first
[quote=ravkin]Actually, the strictness on the rules has been a roller coaster ride.
It was at its peak about 2 years ago then started to drop.
Then there is the occasional upward climb with more drops.
Currently, we are in a drop after the climb to the no tolerance to the bandwagon spam.
We will hit a climb when the next bandwagon spam happens.
They have loosened on some of the rules, like on memes, and usage of some words.
The filter has less common words being censored.
I know this from interactions with the mods and having been active in the Site section for about 2 years.
And the fact that the MrBasil and the mod are going in the opposite direction I want them to.
Ot:
I think we should go with more bans and Ip bans.
MrBasil is quite lax when it comes to bans.[/quote]
well, can't say no there, i quit basil around 2 years~year and a half, when i couldn't play maple and the rules got so annoying i couldn't be in the chat section without getting suspended, so i guess you are right, now that i came back i get suspended a bit less i think
the filter is annoying, i can't spell "roach" correctly, and it annoys me when my whole comment doesn't pass because of one single word, i can't even say "fruit" instead of a swear word without getting a warning (at least it's only a warning) i wonder what would happen if i started using the south.perry filter here, but that's nor here nor there.
and basilmarket is the largest maplestory fansite around, there with sleepywood, if he started banning left and right, well, the site would lose a good deal of appeal i am sure. the site is to cater to everyone, i myself would like the rules to be more lax, alas they can't be. i miss the old nutjob basilmarket, it was whacky and filled with trolls, but the chat section was nowhere near as boring as today's. heck, even trolls were better, now we have the adult-spammers, the hack/scam sites, and the overall spammer. geez.
[quote=HolyMythos]Basil has tried countless times to try and improve the quality of everything. It doesn't work. With a moderation system like it has now, an owner like it has now, and the userbase, there's nothing you can do. And MrB honestly won't change anything on the site anyways for the greater good.[/quote]
it does, you've been around a while if my memory doesn't fail me, this site used to be much more chaotic back then, rules and their enforcing has gotten much stricter. i can vouch for this. i wonder if you remember the old chat section.
EDIT: heh, a week difference in our last medal.
[quote=HolyMythos]Basil has tried countless times to try and improve the quality of everything. It doesn't work. With a moderation system like it has now, an owner like it has now, and the userbase, there's nothing you can do. And MrB honestly won't change anything on the site anyways for the greater good.[/quote]
Most certainly correct. Mr basil rarely take suggestions from users/moderator. He does what he believe is best. Thus he rejected tons of great suggestion including mine to change how a restriction is listed
@jonatan: Oh, I see then. I guess I misunderstood your previous post.
Basil has tried countless times to try and improve the quality of everything. It doesn't work. With a moderation system like it has now, an owner like it has now, and the userbase, there's nothing you can do. And MrB honestly won't change anything on the site anyways for the greater good.
@aloley:
Yeah, and I agreed with you.
Basically, my post said that keeping old threads doesn't take up alot of extra space [i]if[/i] the spam can be kept under controll.
Lets do some calculations:
Atm there is ~2 000 000 threads created and ~380 000 "alive" (a.k.a. not deleted) the oldest thread that I could find was a thread with no. 1 660 000 and it was dated aug 15 2010. That's ~9 months 9*30.5=274.5 days.
That gives an approximate number of threads/day: 380 000/274.5=~1400 threads/day wich further proves my point. There is too much threads created each day and the forum gets to unorganized so new threads will have a hard time getting replies ("fun/scary" fact is that there is ~1 thread created every minute, less during some hours, more during peaks).
I believe that alot of threads is unnecessary due to duplicates, thoose duplicates is sadly really hard to find due to the intensive spam.
Continuing with calculations:
[i]Assume[/i] that each thread needs ~25kb (wich could be equivalent to 75 replies wich is ~5 pages, many threads don't take up this much space)
What [i]if[/i] no threads was deleted?
2 000 000*0.025=50000mb ~= 48gb
380 000 threads is then ~= 9.12gb
Wich isn't [i]that[/i] much but deleting the threads is necessary dues to.... guess? Yep, that's right, the answer to our questions is the spam. Threads shouldn't have to be deleted [i]if[/i] the spam could be kept under controll.
(sidenote: I didn't took the deleted threads into consideration while making the calculations)
@jonatan: I see what you're talking about, but I was actually talking about the idea of keeping old threads instead of deleting them. :x
I'd like to see:
7 day suspension for creating a thread which is indentical to another in a given 12 hour time frame.
7 day suspension for creating a thread that asks for help where an answer is already available by using the search function.
A section offered to Basilers whom are over 16/18 years of age by the moderators and eventually community members of said section.
@bubblecup118:
Not really, you got to look at the context.
Some topics have just been brought up too many times, it's "almost" annoying (e.g. why was I suspended or hey, breaking news! lets make a mobile version of the site!).
I also mentioned more subsections, 2x exp is a pretty big subject because it's related to training. Such thread could maybe be given a subsection like "hunting ground" or anything similar where training methods, tips etc. are discussed.
[quote=jonatan]Not really, let's explain why with an example:
There is at least 15-30 threads about a mobile version of basil (not including the old ones that is deleted). Having just 1 official thread would accually [i]save[/i] space. This can be applied to the majority of the threads because there is a high chance that there already is duplicates.
[/quote]
That's like saying since so many people make 2X exp threads we should have one official thread or have one official thread for suggestions.
[quote=aloley]However, doesn't keeping all these threads add to site space usage?[/quote]
Not really, let's explain why with an example:
There is at least 15-30 threads about a mobile version of basil (not including the old ones that is deleted). Having just 1 official thread would accually [i]save[/i] space. This can be applied to the majority of the threads because there is a high chance that there already is duplicates.
More sections and a better structure (stickies) [i]will[/i] be good for the community because it will prevent the massive spam that's going on. Sometimes it can be impossible to even get replies in the general section due to the massive ammount of new threads and the lack of a good structure and subforums.
Lastly, there is ~32 000 screens on basil, taking up ~5gb of space. A table in one of my private databases that I use for a site could be equivalent to a thread with ~350-400 replies and that takes up ~80kb of space. Notice that my table isn't optimized so it could probably be smaller on basil.
I think guides should return to the top of the respective forum, without a "Click here to see the guides for this forum" spoiler-type thing. No one really sees them in the sidebar.
I also don't believe old threads should be deleted (unless they're breaking the rules). Many times, you click on an old link or go back through old threads, to find they've been deleted for inactivity. However, doesn't keeping all these threads add to site space usage?
@DrHye:
Agreed!
Wouldn't it be good if the child-sections of a forum inherited the stickies from it's parent?
I agree with making certain stickies appear in more than one forum. There's plenty of guides that should be shown in the smaller sections. Things like Damage Ranges guides (I know I talk about these a lot, it's just because I have experience with them) should be shown in the general job forum, as well as all the sub-forums that go with it. And just a note, another popular thread is "Which Class should I make?" and making the notification that they're not allowed in the "New thread" page doesn't seem to have any effect.
@IceyArcher:
I'll probably show it to mr.B via mail or through BIM if we get a decent discussion going on, so, good suggestions and comments is apreciated.
[quote=IceyArcher]The irony is many threads like this are made, too.[/quote]
Oh the irony, yes, I know and I agree...
There's no such threads on the frontpage though.
[quote=IceyArcher]Anyway; majority of users will NOT go out of their way to google up their thread; it's been suggested and nothing ever happens.[/quote]
Correct, I fully support your statement.
This applies to most cases, the human being is lazy, it's in our nature.
[quote=IceyArcher]IMO; Basil needs to bring back Stickys, per se. While keeping the official 'guides' on the sides, there should also be stickies at the top; though there should really only be a few so don't worry about a long list at the top.. Anyway Mods can add stickys for the topics that occur often.
Site would have a sticky about banned custom avatars, maybe bring back Ravkins thread for helping people figure out why they got suspended.
Chat could have the "Official List of Official Threads" and just dump the links for RL photos/tumblr/LoL/whatever the hell else was made official, and maybe some sort of thread we can shove "AH MAH GAWD DOES SHE LYK ME?" threads in.
Of course, there will ALWAYS be the people who believe what they have to say is just TOO important to be another mere post in a 200 post thread and will thus make their own thread because again, they are important. Shrug.[/quote]
This is accually really good. I've had the old stickies in my mind but not as detailed as your statement above.
Can I add that to the OP to give it more attention?
@pr3stig3:
I wrote, "but is not limited to".
I know and fully agree with you, the list of topics that you made is very common.
You're missing a few more repeated topics:
Dis gurl looked @ me, does it mean she wants me?
Gay/lesbian discussion
Pokemanz
Xbox vs ps3 (sorry, Wii has no chance)
Game 1 vs game 2
im hawt rate me
[quote=BigBossBeoulve]Lets have a 18+ years old section >:3[/quote]
I think all 18- Basilers would greatly appreciate that. XD
[quote=BigBossBeoulve]Lets have a 18+ years old section >:3[/quote]
I hope you know how long something like this has been suggested.