General

[quote=Nepipupu]As long as you count Tele Mastery (unlike the Basil chart), all Evan, F/P and I/C are in the Top 5 DPM post-Jump. I don't see how you can get better than that without making them completely overpowered.[/quote]

Actually, they're not: BMs, Sairs, Mechs, Heroes, Marksmen, NLs, and WHs are all stronger than mages. Plus Mercedes and Demon Hunters will probably be above them, meaning mages will barely make it in the top 10 after Jump.

[quote=BloodyDan]Why do people even make bishops their mains? [/quote]
BECAUSE I CAN AND ITS FREE D:<!

seriously, i enjoy my class and unlike the huge population pre big bang, i didn't make it for genesis

i made it for doom and heal if i remember right

back on topic,
@TS if you don't enjoy your bishop then take a break from it
i really don't see why we need to complain right now

consider these things

1) you control a parties will to train majority of the time
2) its very entertaining to troll with decent door and if you lack decent door then to door away and leave the party
3) i enjoy destroying peoples in pvp
4) very lost cost even with nearfed mp eater ty to infinity and heal (still not using pots at bearwolves since i got maxed infinity )
5) its VERY funny to see some peoples look at a funded bishop and cry in a corner for hitting lower then a so called ''hs mule''

i got used to going gene less now, i personally found it so much more fun to train with angel ray and teleport
like wise at normal places (not LHC like areas) i can and have ksed peoples out of my map very easily ( made easier if the monster is holy weak)

i also kinda like being a rarity class
about 90% ~95% of all the damage addicted monsters from the bishop class quited once ultimates were nearfed

un nearfing gen would bring them back

we really don't need a new attacking skill, our current skill Angel ray hits 900% on 4 monsters with holy element and goes at a moderate speed

post jump, its delay decreases, hits twice, hits 6 monsters,
spell booster makes us attack like madmans
shining ray hits 3 times making the stun nearly 100% all the time when used with tele mastery
high wisdom is a nice boost of int, holy focus gets slightly buffed in terms of mastery damage
we gain arcane aim for a bit better damage all with advance bless and holy shell (2 powerful support skills that i REALLY want)
infinity gets 50% stance when maxed
we also get a increase in big bang

they even fixed doom to make it actually helpful outside of pvp

what do we get with old gene? pot burn? more hate? nubs bandwagoning us for damage? pssh
bishops are so underestimated

@alex168: I wasn't telling you to ask a dk because of their bias, but their knowledge. Roar was the first skill considered an ultimate.

[quote=Sup323]you guys abused the genesis, spammed, and ksed the he'll out of the other classes

Ot:why are you guys talking about food in a maple thread[/quote]

"You guys"? Excuse me. Do not generalize the whole bishop population.
Not all bishops ran around spamming genesis and ksing people. :l

[quote=TimeOutCorner]I miss it too. I don't think they'll put it back but I always buy Gene 30 if I see it in the FM. I keep failing them. </3[/quote]

Aww so unlucky but you will eventually GL with that <3

me three
[quote=rogerX]me too [/quote]

[quote=shaftkid2]i think shes more meaning the fact that some lkc parties treat the bishop very pourly and tell them to jsut go sit on the rope and yell if they dont hs them cuz they are tryign to train 2 like on my bishop its always the nl running off soloing and im with and hsing the party while killign to and the nl is always wtf get on the rop and hs me and in return she wants a skill that actually gives her the option to be able to sit somewhere hs with ease and be able to get her genesis some distance to do dmg at lkc it dosnt make a differnece if u have spamable ultimates anyhow or they can make the skill lagg after every 10 genees u have to mvoe ur guy fro it to reactivate or something[/quote]

Um... first off.... proper quotation, please? It's a bit of a headache to read what you just posted.

But I think I got the gist of it and yeah... Bishops do often get shafted in the sense of parties telling them to just buff/heal and not contribute to the training in any other way... but that's due more or less to a stupid party than the Bishop itself.

[quote=shaftkid2]i think shes more meaning the fact that some lkc parties treat the bishop very pourly and tell them to jsut go sit on the rope and yell if they dont hs them cuz they are tryign to train 2 like on my bishop its always the nl running off soloing and im with and hsing the party while killign to and the nl is always wtf get on the rop and hs me and in return she wants a skill that actually gives her the option to be able to sit somewhere hs with ease and be able to get her genesis some distance to do dmg at lkc it dosnt make a differnece if u have spamable ultimates anyhow or they can make the skill lagg after every 10 genees u have to mvoe ur guy fro it to reactivate or something[/quote]

I Totally AGREE WITH YOU ! <3

bishops do need a new skill, but stop asking for your ultimate to not have a cooldown. it was obviously broken, people making mules and calling them in for every ks war there was.

wait for jump <3

I agree, they need to decrease the cool down time at LEAST. I miss the old genesis, it was the only good mobbing skill for us.

@alex168: Pfft, it doesn't matter. Roar holds the title as first ultimate, making it an ultimate anyway?

You disagree? Just ask any dk.

Not gonna lie, I thought this topic was about a sega genesis before I clicked it...

Edit: ninja'd several times, and I'm not at all surprised

[quote=Tylerh7265]Misleading title, I thought you meant Sega Genesis

Edit: @Original Poster, I'm a vegetarian. Just saying [/quote]

Thanks you sir, I finally could understand what an earlier poster "posted" .-.?

why gave it a cooldown, sure it killed mages, but it was like, omg this guy is ksing me, CALL IN TEH BISHUPZ!
they dont need an 100% attack skill that's spammable

i hear u sis. but idk how it feels to spam a ultimate due to beginng maple RIGHT when bb come out bt i do want to spam meteor right now

[quote=Noobdit92575]Being Vegan sucks its not like your going to make a diff by not eating meat so that others wont eat it too. anyways i could not live without KFC D:[/quote]
I'm not trying to make the difference.It is simple as pie, I JUST DON'T LIKE MEAT <3

No. That skill was the [b]epitome[/b] of broken.

If anything they should supplement bishops with more useful supportive skills...because, weather you like it or not, that was the ENTIRE point and concept of the cleric/priest/bishop class.

some bishops deserved the cool-down some didn't ..

its good that it got nerfed. even tho i had fun ksing bishops gene with my DBs sudden raid. (:

[quote=lrrespective]I disagree with that, Bishops abused that skill like no tomorrow. I find it better with a cool down, although bishops do deserve other attacks[/quote]

Thanks <3

[quote=Bowmaster522]I love this thread. It goes from Genesis-> Chicken-> to whatever is next.[/quote]

I know right i was like hey guys i miss my gene it was fun IN MY OPINION and I'll really like a better skill to train because im unmotivated to continue my bishop, but people take this too serious ...
Im not saying like OH THIS GAME BLOWS! ITS ALL NEXONS FAULT! BLABH BLAH BLAH ... NO"!
and if in any part of this thread it looks like I'm complaining about it its because of these people that is, I know I know, super archi mega super tired of reading thread like this, well if you don't wanna read it just don't .-.

[quote=AckarRed]She said she wanted better attacking skills. All Bishops get in Jump is a smokscreen-like shield skill, spell booster and a better form of Bless.[/quote]

Wrong, wrong.
[url=http://spadow.wordpress.com/2011/04/21/kms-ver-1-2-131-spell-of-awakening/]Spadow[/url] says otherwise, and although he [b]could[/b] be wrong on a few things, most likely he didn't make up a bunch of bishop skills.

[quote=rogerX]What title says or at least a better attack skill for bishops... something to make me wanna train my bishop again...
/and YES this is another useless thread
Oh By the way i don't know why but while watching some old genesis videos i feel sad about it T_T[/quote]
So wait, in your opinion, standing in 1 spot and spamming genesis was a fun way to train?

[quote=PirateJuan]I wish I had my old genesis! I used to love playing Sonic & Knuckles and Streets of Rage on it with my brothers.[/quote]

Sorry what?

[quote=rogerX]SEROUSLY ? SUPPORTIVE CLASS ? COME ON! sorry for the caps, but im tired of reading things like this I mean with all this self-buffs the meaning of suportive class is really UNDERRATED besides hs ofc .... and yeah maybe you are right about the ksing, but I atleast want a better attacking skill for mobs and also I've seen what they did to bishops on Jump update but its NOTHING compare with what they did to the Arch Mage[/quote]

Genesis cool down made bishops more humble I think. Raise your range and kill things. There are plenty of bishops with good ranges that see delicious white exp. xP

[quote=souleater21]LOL It's their fault for abusing Genesis and KSing people.[/quote]
Not everyone did that. And that didn't stop them from adding soul driver to the game either.

Frankly speaking aside from the mob count/range, there's nothing really special about genesis anymore. It pretty much does the same damage as AR. It would be nice to have a big AOE again though, even if the damage got nerfed I really wouldn't mind. Big bang is just crap as long as it has that charger.

[quote=rogerX]I really don't know, but seriously is boring training with angel ray/ shining ray or big bang I just want a better skill to train my bishop[/quote]

Get Auto HS, find an all nighter LHC Party.
Go to sleep. Leave the Auto HS running for the whole night.
Come back in the morning, gained a few levels.
Rinse and repeat until level 200.

There's no need to train at all with a bishop, lol

[quote=souleater21]LOL It's their fault for abusing Genesis and KSing people.[/quote]

I agree ^

Besides they get a bit better during JUMP! patch with spell booster and full working HS for 1 person and some other changes

[quote=bubblecup118]Support class. Someone has to be at the bottom of the DPM and of course that would be bishop. Arch Mage of course will get buff better because we dont have your support skills.

If you made a bishop solely for damage and or genesis, make a new class now.

Bishop complaining about damage or CD are getting annoying. Look at bucc life. No revamp for them yet.

[b] So bishop should never get the old genesis. Does that mean blizzard , dark genesis, and every other ultimate get zero CD. [/b][/quote]

So whats the point of BALANCE things ... Bishop get ks'd even at undead monsters... and you can compare buccs vs bishops they kick our butts anyday, but yeah they need and update too, but im not a bucc so thats why im complaining about MY job.

[quote=rogerX]SEROUSLY ? SUPPORTIVE CLASS ? COME ON! sorry for the caps, but im tired of reading things like this I mean with all this self-buffs the meaning of suportive class is really UNDERRATED besides hs ofc .... and yeah maybe you are right about the ksing, but I atleast want a better attacking skill for mobs and also I've seen what they did to bishops on Jump update but its NOTHING compare with what they did to the Arch Mage[/quote]

Support class. Someone has to be at the bottom of the DPM and of course that would be bishop. Arch Mage of course will get buff better because we dont have your support skills.

If you made a bishop solely for damage and or genesis, make a new class now.

Bishop complaining about damage or CD are getting annoying. Look at bucc life. No revamp for them yet.

[b] So bishop should never get the old genesis. Does that mean blizzard , dark genesis, and every other ultimate get zero CD. [/b]

[quote=souleater21]LOL It's their fault for abusing Genesis and KSing people.[/quote]

Exactly. This pretty much broke the game, turning Bishops into the ultimate class (no pun intended):
-Able to make more mesos than any other class (by selling leech)
-Able to train faster than any other class (other than other magicians, by about [b]FIVE TIMES[/b])
-Completely took over certain training locations (Jesters, MP3s, Galloperas... thank god there were Skele mini-dungeons)
-(with other mages) Completely took over monster hunting events (IE: subway areas when Maple Shields dropped)
-Always called on when someone wanted to KS someone and couldn't do it themselves.

Ultimates were given a cooldown for pretty much all of these reasons (and probably a few more).

Also, to be fair, what IS so bad about Angel Ray? Is it not a 4-monster projectile attack? Use it with Teleport Mastery, Bahamut and Big Bang... don't really see a big deal here.

[quote=alex168]@iVege: hits less as in less damage[/quote]

Damage should not define what an ultiamte is, because there are ultimates with different damage to others.

[quote=Toukie] Edit: For any old schooler's, wasn't it funny how Bishops whined more than Arch Mages despite having it much much [b]much[/b] easier?[/quote]

Good question...
Why did bishops complain more then arch mages?

[quote=alex168]eh, i think roar has a smaller range and hits less so not really an ultimate[/quote]

Excuse me? Roar's range is excactly the same as Genesis' and hits 15 mobs just like it.

In fact, Roar was the first ultimate. How dare you disregard it.

@ChaosC57:

AR hits twice at the coming of jump so 450 + 450 is still 900 with the added bonus of a double chance of criticals that way. It's better.

Mages abused their ability. So i would have to say No, i mean if you get 2 bish or mages in same map you would be able to ks everyone thats just stupid at least dawnwarriors had to move around

[quote=ChaosC57]There is no damage % increase, AR at level 30 is 900%.[/quote]

They said gets boosted. Meaning during the JUMP update.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqAyXc0O83g&feature=related]As a mage, my answer is...[/url]

[quote=Naritta]Well, I understand how people could potentially be offended/annoyed but seriously to complain about it [b]a year later[/b] is just stupid. I mean, weren't Dawn Warriors around to do the same thing? And you're right the same lesson applies to the mages who miss their ultimates.

The way our class is treated now is enough redemption. Bishops pale in every degree of gameplay, known now only to be a mule or a dedicated effort and nobody deserves to have their right to play the game happily taken away from them. The majority of current Bishops get blamed for the assholes of 2005 to late 2010. People don't even think anymore. What a no cooldown Genesis would do right now is bring back some respect for sure, but then the abusers would come back-- but you know what? Nearly all the other class are so overpowered a no cooldown Genesis still wouldn't out DPS a Dual Blade or a BM or even a NL. Comparitively we'd be more balanced.

I'm content either way, it just struck me as so stupid that people would still complain about being ks'd a year ago, especially now that Bishops can be ks'd by just about anything now.[/quote]
Yeah, I'm amazed people are still complaining about something that did happen almost a year ago :x

Really, about 80% of Bishops quit when Big Bang occured. They bandwagoned onto the class for the Ultimate, and when it got a cooldown, they missed their power, and thus hopped onto another "power hungry" class. The 20% that remained were those who made a Cleric to just be one, and didn't mind the change at all. We all saw it for the better.

You also have to keep in mind back when Genesis was spammable, potential didn't exist. And so Mages were a force to be feared.
Yeah, sure, Potential [i]did[/i] come out Pre-Big Bang, but it was still fairly new, so very few people had "decent" stats to amount to anything :x

By today's standard's with all of the upgrade's, spammable ultimates wouldn't phase anything. Not anymore. But if you change 1 Ultimate, all Ultimates will have to be changed to be "fair". It's one of the reasons as to why Mage's in general got a cooldown. Really, in the end, our lose of "power" put us back as the bottom class, and back into the "supportive" type role. Even if we could use Genesis again, you know it'd barely amount to anything these days :x It'd be a step of improvement, but regardless, we'd be the same.. unless we're dealing with nibby enemies. Then we'd have the "KSing" "power" issue again over something so silly.

But yeah. I'm content with anything. I've been playing my Bishop since 2006, so I've been through it all.
And yes, I am that slow at amounting to anything c:

Edit: For any old schooler's, wasn't it funny how Bishops whined more than Arch Mages despite having it much much [b]much[/b] easier?

[quote=rogerX]I really don't know, but seriously is boring training with angel ray/ shining ray or big bang I just want a better skill to train my bishop[/quote]

So training with those 3 skills is borin.. but spamming genesis all day is fun?

@alex168: Ugh, totally forgot roar.

[quote=Toukie]You do realize, those who "QQ'd" about being KS'd by mages were of the 4th job status.
All 3rd jobs get KS'd, due to lacking any form of power, so you're not any different.

Really, people got enraged by the fact a level 130 Bishop could walk up into a party of level 200's and KS them out.
Genesis was over-used and over-abused. It was even more chaotic back in the day before Mini Dungeons existed and you had to hold down your channel.
Unless you were of the 4th job status and got KS'd by an annoying Mage desperately under your level, then you have a right to "QQ about the past".

Skelegon's were of the "end game" material back then, and once mini dungeon's got invented, nobody had any issues training and being KS'd. It's why the Mages meandered down to the lower leveled maps to "have some fun", which you've experienced as a Priest.

Sure Big Bang brought down our power, but as somebody who lived a Bishop since day 1 of 4th job implemention and hated the stereotypical stupidity of my class, I enjoyed the cooldown. Atleast now we have to put effort into the class :x

Besides, you're a prime example that you can still level commonly without spamming an ultimate.
All of the "I miss my ultimate" Mages need to realize this is the present and not the past..

./end my silly harmless opinion :c[/quote]

Well, I understand how people could potentially be offended/annoyed but seriously to complain about it [b]a year later[/b] is just stupid. I mean, weren't Dawn Warriors around to do the same thing? And you're right the same lesson applies to the mages who miss their ultimates.

The way our class is treated now is enough redemption. Bishops pale in every degree of gameplay, known now only to be a mule or a dedicated effort and nobody deserves to have their right to play the game happily taken away from them. The majority of current Bishops get blamed for the assholes of 2005 to late 2010. People don't even think anymore. What a no cooldown Genesis would do right now is bring back some respect for sure, but then the abusers would come back-- but you know what? Nearly all the other class are so overpowered a no cooldown Genesis still wouldn't out DPS a Dual Blade or a BM or even a NL. Comparitively we'd be more balanced.

I'm content either way, it just struck me as so stupid that people would still complain about being ks'd a year ago, especially now that Bishops can be ks'd by just about anything now.

[quote=rogerX]What title says or at least a better attack skill for bishops... something to make me wanna train my bishop again...
/and YES this is another useless thread
Oh By the way i don't know why but while watching some old genesis videos i feel sad about it T_T[/quote]

Dunno why, but I read the title with some kind of rhyme, like singing it! Haha.
And yeah, it's unfair, Bishops got nerfed. First, Nerfed Genesis. Then, MP eater got nerfed, it's useless now. And now we're good at PvP, and people started to complain to nerf us again. Hope they don't.

[quote=Naritta]I love how people complain about pre-bb Bishops. You do realize the majority of Bishops that play now are post-bb Bishops? Those of you with chips on your shoulders from the old days should get over yourselves. Pre-bb was nearly a [i]year[/i] ago. I was a priest pre-bb and even I was ks'd by several Bishops, [i]as often as I was by any other class.[/i] Nearly any other class has the ability to ks and the only people who got nerfed hard were the mages. Nowadays Adventurer mages are treated either as garbage, a rarity, or most often in the Bishop's case: a mule.

Spare me your QQing about being ks'd it was so long ago and not just confined to the mage class.

Please, if anyone has a more valid argument, I'd love to hear it.[/quote]
You do realize, those who "QQ'd" about being KS'd by mages were of the 4th job status.
All 3rd jobs get KS'd, due to lacking any form of power, so you're not any different.

Really, people got enraged by the fact a level 130 Bishop could walk up into a party of level 200's and KS them out.
Genesis was over-used and over-abused. It was even more chaotic back in the day before Mini Dungeons existed and you had to hold down your channel.
Unless you were of the 4th job status and got KS'd by an annoying Mage desperately under your level, then you have a right to "QQ about the past".

Skelegon's were of the "end game" material back then, and once mini dungeon's got invented, nobody had any issues training and being KS'd. It's why the Mages meandered down to the lower leveled maps to "have some fun", which you've experienced as a Priest.

Sure Big Bang brought down our power, but as somebody who lived as a Bishop since day 1 of 4th job implemention and hated the stereotypical stupidity of my class, I enjoyed the cooldown. Atleast now we have to put effort into the class and are back to using multiple skills/movement to gain exp :x

Besides, you're a prime example that you can still level commonly without spamming an ultimate.
All of the "I miss my ultimate :[" Mages need to realize this is the present and not the past.
And how ultimates got changed for the better.

./end my silly harmless opinion :c

I love how people complain about pre-bb Bishops. You do realize the majority of Bishops that play now are post-bb Bishops? Those of you with chips on your shoulders from the old days should get over yourselves. Pre-bb was nearly a [i]year[/i] ago. I was a priest pre-bb and even I was ks'd by several Bishops, [i]as often as I was by any other class.[/i] Nearly any other class has the ability to ks and the only people who got nerfed hard were the mages. Nowadays Adventurer mages are treated either as garbage, a rarity, or most often in the Bishop's case: a mule.

Spare me your QQing about being ks'd it was so long ago and not just confined to the mage class.

Please, if anyone has a more valid argument, I'd love to hear it.

Edit: And yes, I firmly believe the Adventurer mages deserve our JUMP revamp more than any other star flinging, troll driving, wild hacking class there is.

If you don't like the class, don't play it. If you were playing a class solely for one skill, then I feel no sympathy for you. We didn't even have ultimate's pre-4th job, so be thankful you even have one. Bishops like you should just learn to adapt. That's the nicest way I can say it (Actually, I editted it so it sounds nicer, tired of getting suspended on basil >.&gt This goes for all mages who think their class is "boring" without the ability to spam an ultimate all day (which, ironically, IS more boring if you have common sense.)

I'm glad I never got to experience the ultimate spam, that kind of gameplay seems boring.

I love my Angel Ray, and Jump looks quite promising for Bishops.

[quote=a13xl]i want old genesis back too but its not gonna happen [/quote]

I feel your pain <3

[quote=hyperfire7]@AckarRed:
-Angel Ray gets boosted to 450% X2. That's a whopping 180% damage increase (probably the biggest %dmg buff ANY attacking skill has gotten so far).
-Arcane Aim gives 20% PDR.
-Spell booster isn't just a lame old skill (like you made it sound by how you typed it in), it'll greatly increase their DPM.

A Lv77 Priest doing 13~15k with Shining Ray: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0Dbqq6ozMk&feature=related
A Lv190 Evan doing 55~90k with Earthquake: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95JUs9nZXow

(Yes, the video of the Priest is the official server while the one with the Evan is the test server, but the Priest only has crappy rings and the Lv70 8th anniversary set equipped, which gives minimal stat boosts.)

Bishops were designed to mainly act as a support class, but the Evan which is designed to be an attacker, is only doing 4~5x more damage (on a MUSHROOM at that) when he's ~120 levels higher.
That's proof that once the Jump! patch hits, Bishops are going to be a decent attacker in addition to the #1 support ability title they have in the game. So there really isn't a reason why the TS should complain.

@rogerX: Anywho, if you miss the excellent mobbing skills you had pre-BB with Genesis, go make a class that is meant to specialize in mobbing, like an Aran, BaM or a DB.
Otherwise, wait 2 months for the Jump! patch like I said before. Honestly, I'm jealous that a support class is getting so many buffs in the attacking aspect.[/quote]

FYI, Angel Ray already hits 900% at max level

[quote=nodiggity1]What's wrong with AR? I love ar O_O.
and i wouldn't want gene back to old form, i'd be hitting max dmg map destroying holy bombs every few secs.
That would make training too boring </3[/quote]

Thats what i loved about it my best memories....