General

@thejman250: well they are easire to cap then other classes since thire buffs and % dmg attacks

[quote=thejman250]- Well appearently, some people believe that paladins need "billions upon billions" of funding to hit cap, and a very small percentage of paladins can actually hit cap...

- After recent events, i had begun to think this was true.

- Maybe the gap isn't so small after hyper skills? (O_o)

- Or that guy was just funded to hell.

- Regardless that person has my respect for being able to do that. o.o[/quote]

Well yeah he had lots of funds but i dont think hitting cap with a pally is as hard with diffrent class

@iChosenDream: yeeup, 'twas me.

I like how Sacrosanctity makes damage reflect amount to merely super wp cancel.

[quote=Tosmi]not really hard to do lol[/quote]

lol post2short

[quote=thejman250]@Tosmi: thanks.

- (O_O) pally hitting cap.. o.o[/quote]

not really hard to do lol

[quote=thejman250]@Tosmi: link please? (O_o)[/quote]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvaj0D9NuZY&feature=g-user-u

[quote=tecul1]@Tosmi I know that pally has more survivability, but I called it overkill, making Pallies and Mihiles basically the same in that aspect of bossing.[/quote]

oh i see.. i just watched a video of a pally solo vl and a hero solo vl and i really cant belive anyhthing besides kiaser is better then a pally right now at kms

@Tosmi I know that pally has more survivability, but I called it overkill, making Pallies and Mihiles basically the same in that aspect of bossing.

@aznstyles: Lol, I wrote my post wrong. I meant if you aren't doing much overall damage in total. It was in a post in another thread (or previous pages) saying that I would rather do 1 hit of 2000 damage than 1000 hits of 1 damage. (I think it was @darkspawn980)

[quote=iChosenDream]Why would it matter who does the most hits per second, if you aren't doing much damage anyways?[/quote]

-cough Mercedes, BMs, WHs cough-

[quote=tecul1]@lmbored I get all info from the most reputable source I know, and, in fact, the most reputable source a lot of people know.

If you know a better one, then by all means tell me.

And, for all intents and purposed, I acknowledge that Mihiles are prob the best bossers next to Kaiser (b/c lol OP) because of their status resist (and, mind you, it becomes 70% w/ Hyper skills, so you can get a max of ~95% w/ Willpower and DS cards), better ranged attack for multiple bosses/parts at once, and passive 1/1 protection in this thread. I even rank Pallies above Heroes, because Heroes can't survive anything at all w/ only 20% status resist (I think) and dispellable 1/1 protection. It doesn't matter that Pallies have slightly less max/s when they basically never die.[/quote]

woud you say mihllie is better tank then a pally? with the 50% to triger godmode and the 40% gurd + the new hyper skill and i forgot the % ignorestatus but its alot lol

You forget that Pallies have reg FA o.o

And, I always use fast (3). Even if it isn't practical (IE arans almost always hit fast2, same w/ mihiles), it puts everyone on a level playing field.

But villains are cool :0

[quote=ramenrulz]Heroes die to much at hardcore bosses. When bosses start spamming seduce, 1/1s, damage reflect, etc. I like having my paladin and demon slayer cuz they can take the abuse.[/quote]
Die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

@lmbored I get all info from the most reputable source I know, and, in fact, the most reputable source a lot of people know.

If you know a better one, then by all means tell me.

And, for all intents and purposed, I acknowledge that Mihiles are prob the best bossers next to Kaiser (b/c lol OP) because of their status resist (and, mind you, it becomes 70% w/ Hyper skills, so you can get a max of ~95% w/ Willpower and DS cards), better ranged attack for multiple bosses/parts at once, and passive 1/1 protection in this thread. I even rank Pallies above Heroes, because Heroes can't survive anything at all w/ only 20% status resist (I think) and dispellable 1/1 protection. It doesn't matter that Pallies have slightly less max/s when they basically never die.

Why would it matter who does the most hits per second, if you aren't doing much damage anyways?

@tecul1: if that sounded antipathic towards you, i'm sorry, that was meant for nexon. i was just pointing out that we got no such skill, which made me annoyed at nexon, nothing to do with you.

one correction though, i am NOT mature* old maybe, but not mature :U

[quote=lmbored]@tecul1: Also a hero compared to a mihile in 1 vs 1 even after update a mihile has better dpm. First of all Hero only has 1 extra attack on mihile. But Mihile has the faster attack and more weapon speed. I don't know where you got your calculations from but they are waaay off. Also the other dude was right, Kaiser's dps should be waaay higher.[/quote]

Pretty sure Heroes win out actually. Something about Soul Enrage (or whatever it's called in GMS) stacking addatively for some reason. And since a Hero with a fast 5 weapon and the inner ability that gives +1 speed reaches the speed cap it doesn't really matter that Mihile can do the same thing.

@darkspawn980 Whoa whoa, sorry.

I just assumed that it wasn't accounted for because someone else noticed it, which happens sometimes. (And please don't make the assume joke, I know you're more mature than that.)

Nexon hates drks since 2009, with that first balance patch that did nothing for them

@tecul1: It's because the other guy is wrong. DI didn't get a Hyper Skill buff that gives it extra targets. RB did but for some reason they decided extra %ignore on DI fit DrK better.....

@Tosmi: Hey it looks like our whole argument was pointless since Heroes win out even at mob counts of 7 or 8. Guess they are just the best Maple-Warriors (since Kaiser are Nova).

[quote=tecul1]@xFlow I obviously didn't convey sarcasm well enough.

They're in their own tier of OPness; it's not even funny. They surpass every single warrior in every which way except survivability (and now mobbing, which isn't really important; OT just asked for numbers on mobs), which isn't that bad.

And either my chart isn't well formatted or you're rushing reading it, but I do account for all of that, at least to the point the JoeTang does on his Warrior DPS thread.

http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=47548 Go to post #474 of pg 24 for Kaiser Info, first post is outdated.

EDIT: First page is really misleading All the correct info is on pages 24-26, post #504, #502, and #485 (only for heroes).

EDIT2: Edited the Table... Only thing I added was Hero's 7 and 8 target; Drks must really be hated over at Southperry, or other Hyper skills are more beneficial than the "add mob count," thus leaving it out.

@Tosmi I value survivability much more than actual potential.

Whereas Pally survivability is way overkill to put them as equal in Mihiles in that aspect(and Mihiles do more dmg, so they're above them in my rank), Mihiles have that certain edge over Heroes that pushes them over for me.

Heroes are certainly overpowering them, but Mihiles have a better chance at actually doing dmg in real cases (IE seduce, debuff, 1/1, multiple parts). There's a reason why I'm maining a Mihile and not a Hero.[/quote]

you got something wrong, it's not SP who hates DrK, it's nexon.
to prove it, i'd like you to find me where exactly in our hyper skills you see the +mob count (protip: it's nowhere)

so we're stuck hitting 6 targets, while heroes can hit up to eight.

the correct info is on the first page.

@xFlow I obviously didn't convey sarcasm well enough.

They're in their own tier of OPness; it's not even funny. They surpass every single warrior in every which way except survivability (and now mobbing, which isn't really important; OT just asked for numbers on mobs), which isn't that bad.

And either my chart isn't well formatted or you're rushing reading it, but I do account for all of that, at least to the point the JoeTang does on his Warrior DPS thread.

http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=47548 Go to post #474 of pg 24 for Kaiser Info, first post is outdated.

EDIT: First page is really misleading All the correct info is on pages 24-26, post #504, #502, and #485 (only for heroes).

EDIT2: Edited the Table... Only thing I added was Hero's 7 and 8 target; Drks must really be hated over at Southperry, or other Hyper skills are more beneficial than the "add mob count," thus leaving it out.

@Tosmi I value survivability much more than actual potential.

Whereas Pally survivability is way overkill to put them as equal in Mihiles in that aspect(and Mihiles do more dmg, so they're above them in my rank), Mihiles have that certain edge over Heroes that pushes them over for me.

Heroes are certainly overpowering them, but Mihiles have a better chance at actually doing dmg in real cases (IE seduce, debuff, 1/1, multiple parts). There's a reason why I'm maining a Mihile and not a Hero.

[quote=tecul1]Max/s on mobs

Class l 2 mobs l 3 mobs l 4 mobs l 5 mobs l 6 mobs l 7 mobs l 8 mobs
Drk 22.2m 33.06m 43.92m 55.78m 65.63m EW EW
Hero 22.28m 32.49m 42.68m 52.87m 63.07m EW EW
Pally 18.77m 27.54m 36.53m 45.54m 54.52m 63.52m 72.48m (only 2 mobs uses Flame + Lightning, discrepancy maybe)
DS 13.21m 19.76m 26.37m EEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWW
Aran 21.47m 31.69m 41.9m 52.12m 62.33m 72.55m 82.77m
Mihile 16.45m 24.08m 31.71m 39.34m 46.98m 54.63m 62.24m
UKai 32.12m 37.27m 42.42m 47.57m 52.72m 57.22m 61.72m
TKai (Discrepancy everywhere, so IDK, but pretty known Kaiser's OP)

Aran's are the OP mobbers, followed by Pallies, Mihiles, and Kaisers (actually a surprise to me.)[/quote]

I don't know why you constantly bash on Kaisers, saying they suck and whatnot. I've only seen videos of Kaisers being able to completely solo empress. A feat none of the other warriors can dream of. your chart is off, it doesn't incorporate hyper skills, where everyone's mob skill gains a 2 mob count, meaning raging blow, dark impale, and radiant blast acquire a 8 mob count.

@Tosmi: While I'd love to keep this argument going I'm rather bored of it. I could of course claim you got their by leeching (as so many pre-BB 200's did) but what's the point. You consider benefiting from hackers to be an acceptable part of the game and I never will. So the discussion is pointless.

[quote=Cthulhusama]@Tosmi: Oh I love how everyone refers to it as "glitched" like they want to pretend that they aren't all benefiting from some hacker. They aren't glitched. Glitched means Nexon screwed up the coding. This isn't a glitch. This is a hacker messing with the spawn rate. Well HF getting banned for hacking/being helped by hackers.

And I love how people just love to act like they are being forced into using these maps. There are plenty of other ways to level. I'm the same level as you and I have never once even trained at LHC so it should be no problem getting to 200 using all of the un-hacked LHC maps.

You (and everyone else using the hacked maps) are just babies who want everything handed to you on a silver platter.[/quote]

im sure thats why i have a lvl200 pre bb

@Tosmi: Oh I love how everyone refers to it as "glitched" like they want to pretend that they aren't all benefiting from some hacker. They aren't glitched. Glitched means Nexon screwed up the coding. This isn't a glitch. This is a hacker messing with the spawn rate. Well HF getting banned for hacking/being helped by hackers.

And I love how people just love to act like they are being forced into using these maps. There are plenty of other ways to level. I'm the same level as you and I have never once even trained at LHC so it should be no problem getting to 200 using all of the un-hacked LHC maps.

You (and everyone else using the hacked maps) are just babies who want everything handed to you on a silver platter.

[quote=Cthulhusama]I have and I consider anyone training on them to be pathetic. Game is easy enough without the need to hack your way to the top.

So allow me to rephrase my statement. "Where can you find mobs of 7+ that actually matter without hacking the game like a loser?"[/quote]

well thats the game like it or not.. and in this thread im asking about the game as it is and not if its easy or not.
glitch maps does happend all the time, and if u wanna call me a loser for using it or anyone else please leave this thread

@tecul1 i think ur right all tho idk why mihlie comes befor pally and hero. mind teling me?

I'm biased, so I usually only provide numbers, but if you say so:

0.Kaiser, because lol, doesn't even need crash: Transforming ignores DR and Weapon Cancel
1.Mihile, 10% more dmg than pallies in exchange for a little less survivablity, supplies rage, has 1/1 protection from Soul Asylum(20%) and 70% status resist, has Crash
2.Pally, TOO MUCH survivability for being moderately average, supplies CO, death count = 0 (really), has Crash AND Smite (IDK if it trigger the resist to Crash though)
3.Hero, as the highest % and max, supplies rage, 1/1 protection only as a buff (Power Reflection: 30%) kills it for me, has Crash
4.Aran, best mobbers and almost never dies because of Combo Drain, supplies Barrier (20% 1/1 protection), has 1/1 protection from High Defense (20%), no "Crash" though
5-6.Drk, simply because they're better than DS, no 1/1 protection (I think) and sucky drain, has Crash
5-6.DS (lol), it really was a fall from grace, maybe when they get hyper skills, only useful for Bind, which doesn't trigger resist to Crash, has 1/1 protection from Obsidian Skin (20%)

I tried to not be biased, but include everything relevant.

[quote=Tosmi]never heard about glitch maps?[/quote]

I have and I consider anyone training on them to be pathetic. Game is easy enough without the need to hack your way to the top.

So allow me to rephrase my statement. "Where can you find mobs of 7+ that actually matter without hacking the game like a loser?"

never heard about glitch maps?

@Tosmi: Where do you find mobs of 7+ monsters that you can't one shot? LHC doesn't have that kind of mob density, neither does SH AFAIK, and no boss I can think of ever has 7 monsters that have a good amount of life (as in Zak summons don't count because they die if you fart too hard). Most I can think of is Empress + 5 Knights which is only 6 which means that Hero and DrK beat Aran anyway.

@Cthulhusama as an aran i can tell u allways find that
@tecul1 what woud be ur best warrior scale them in 1-6

[quote=tecul1]Max/s on mobs

Class l 2 mobs l 3 mobs l 4 mobs l 5 mobs l 6 mobs l 7 mobs l 8 mobs
Drk 22.2m 33.06m 43.92m 55.78m 65.63m EW EW
Hero 22.28m 32.49m 42.68m 52.87m 63.07m EW EW
Pally 18.77m 27.54m 36.53m 45.54m 54.52m 63.52m 72.48m (only 2 mobs uses Flame + Lightning, discrepancy maybe)
DS 13.21m 19.76m 26.37m EEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWW
Aran 21.47m 31.69m 41.9m 52.12m 62.33m 72.55m 82.77m
Mihile 16.45m 24.08m 31.71m 39.34m 46.98m 54.63m 62.24m
UKai 32.12m 37.27m 42.42m 47.57m 52.72m 57.22m 61.72m
TKai (Discrepancy everywhere, so IDK, but pretty known Kaiser's OP)

Aran's are the OP mobbers, followed by Pallies, Mihiles, and Kaisers (actually a surprise to me.)[/quote]

Why do you say Arans are so great at mobbing when both DrK and Hero beat them until you get to 7+ mobs? When do you find monsters with more than 1mil HP in groups of 7 or more? 99% of the time where Mils/Second matters you will be fighting less than 7 mobs (mostly 1 main mob but up to 6 on Empress with all Knights) in which case Hero and DrK win out (DrK are actually at the top on mob counts of 3 or higher). Mobbing 7 monsters is hardly ever important except in places where they are too easily one shot.

Max/s on mobs

Class l 2 mobs l 3 mobs l 4 mobs l 5 mobs l 6 mobs l 7 mobs l 8 mobs
Drk 22.14m 32.97m 43.8m 54.62m 65.45m EW EW
Hero 22.28m 32.49m 42.68m 52.87m 63.07m 73.19m 83.35m
Pally 18.76m 27.53m 36.52m 45.53m 54.53m 63.46m 72.47m (only 2 mobs uses Flame + Lightning, discrepancy maybe)
DS 13.21m 19.76m 26.37m EEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWW
Aran 21.47m 31.69m 41.9m 52.12m 62.33m 72.55m 82.77m
Mihile 16.44m 24.07m 31.7m 39.34m 46.97m 54.61m 62.24m
UKai 32.12m 37.27m 42.42m 47.57m 52.72m 57.22m 61.72m
TKai (Discrepancy everywhere, so IDK, but pretty known Kaiser's OP)

Aran's are the OP mobbers, followed by Heroes (even though more max/s, very neglible, and Arans can actually survive things), Pallies, Mihiles, and Kaisers (actually a surprise to me.)

@Tosmi: Yes but as I said the pally might have more hits per second but the Hero has better DPM because Rage Uprising is better than Smite. So the Hero puts out more damage per second (and it takes around the same range for a Hero to hit max with Rage Uprising as it does for a Pally to hit max with FA). So at any and all damage ranges the Hero will do better because by the time the Pally gets enough range for hits/second to matter more than % the Hero will be doing so much damage with Rage Uprising he will still win out.

@Cthulhusama i was saying if all of them hit cap
@tecul1 thats for 1vs1 right? for mobing i woud say hero is better till pally gets charge to hit 6 times

@Tosmi

Yes, as of right now.
But Heros have the best % and max/s as of now.

Kaisers suck very much.

[quote=Tosmi]so fix me if im wrong.. pallys has the most hits per sec?[/quote]

Technically true but not really. They hit more often but DrK and Pally hit higher thanks to Hyper Skills. So they win out in mils/second. Hero is first and even DrK wins out thanks to Hyper Skills (DrK get a huge boost from Dark Synthesis). By the time they start hitting enough for hits/sec to matter more than %/second then a Hero will be doing enough on Rage Uprising to be winning anyway. Same with a DrK and Dark Synth.

Full order in mils per second is Kaiser, Hero, DrK, Aran, Pally, Mihile, DS(might change when they get Hyper Skills).
In % per second the order is Kaiser, Hero, Mihile, Pally, Aran, DrK, and DS (again they are the only ones without Hyper Skills).

[quote=tecul1]You mean late last night

Class l 0% PDR l 10% PDR l 25% PDR l 40% PDR l 70% PDR l Hits/s l Max/s
Drk(DI) 4677%/s 4357%/s 3877%/s 3398%/s 2439%/s 8.81/s 11.35m/s
Drk(sac)3675%/s 3576%/s 3426%/s 3277%/s 2979%/s 6.92/s 9.42m/s (in other words, never use sac)
Hero 11475%/s 10913%/s 10042%/s 9165%/s 7454%/s 9.46/s 12.06m/s
Pally 7511%/s 7250%/s 6853%/s 6462%/s 5673%/s 9.83/s 10.52m/s (Divine + Lightning, better %/s)
Pally 6773%/s 6540%/s 6186%/s 5838%/s 5136%/s 10.38/s 11.06m/s (Flame + Lightning, better h/s and max/s)
DS 3177%/s 3063%/s 2910%/s 2738%/s 2414%/s 6.03/s 6.03m/s (no hyper skill yet)
Aran 5055%/s 4845%/s 4530%/s 4216%/s 3585%/s 6.05/s 11.25m/s
Mihile 8938%/s 8409%/s 7606%/s 6798%/s 5190%/s 8.81/s 9.82m/s
UKai 20956%/s 19736%/s 17905%/s 16071%/s 12406%/s 28.64/s 28.64m/s
TKai 11745%/s 11075%/s 10072%/s 9069%/s 7062%/s 19.52/s 19.52m/s

Kaisers still suck.[/quote]

so fix me if im wrong.. pallys has the most hits per sec?

You mean late last night

Class l 0% PDR l 10% PDR l 25% PDR l 40% PDR l 70% PDR l Hits/s l Max/s
Drk(DI) 4677%/s 4357%/s 3877%/s 3398%/s 2439%/s 8.81/s 11.35m/s
Drk(sac)3675%/s 3576%/s 3426%/s 3277%/s 2979%/s 6.92/s 9.42m/s (in other words, never use sac)
Hero 11475%/s 10913%/s 10042%/s 9165%/s 7454%/s 9.46/s 12.06m/s
Pally 7511%/s 7250%/s 6853%/s 6462%/s 5673%/s 9.83/s 10.52m/s (Divine + Lightning, better %/s)
Pally 6773%/s 6540%/s 6186%/s 5838%/s 5136%/s 10.38/s 11.06m/s (Flame + Lightning, better h/s and max/s)
DS 3177%/s 3063%/s 2910%/s 2738%/s 2414%/s 6.03/s 6.03m/s (no hyper skill yet)
Aran 5055%/s 4845%/s 4530%/s 4216%/s 3585%/s 6.05/s 11.25m/s
Mihile 8938%/s 8409%/s 7606%/s 6798%/s 5190%/s 8.81/s 9.82m/s
UKai 20956%/s 19736%/s 17905%/s 16071%/s 12406%/s 28.64/s 28.64m/s
TKai 11745%/s 11075%/s 10072%/s 9069%/s 7062%/s 19.52/s 19.52m/s

Kaisers still suck.

@tecul1: JoeTang updated it earlier today with the current figures from kMS.

Why, Southperry.

In fact, the same link I used in my post on the same page.

The 1st page of that thread is mostly outdated.

[quote=tecul1]And now strictly by %/s Using fast (3) speed:
Class l 0% PDR l 10% PDR l 25% PDR l 40% PDR l 70% PDR
Drk 4620%/s 4307%/s 3836%/s 3364%/s 2422%/s
Hero 11473%/s 10902%/s 10033%/s 9194%/s 7448%/s
Pally 5120%/s 4939%/s 4674%/s 4410%/s 3876%/s
DS 3174%/s 3068%/s 2906%/s 2743%/s 2421%/s
Aran 5056%/s 4845%/s 4530%/s 4215%/s 3586%/s
Mihile 8942%/s 8407%/s 7602%/s 6796%/s 5188%/s
UKai 20956%/s 19736%/s 17905%/s 16071%/s 12406%/s
TKai 11745%/s 11075%/s 10072%/s 9069%/s 7062%/s

In conclusion, Kaisers suck.[/quote]

based on what?

And now strictly by %/s Using fast (3) speed:
Class l 0% PDR l 10% PDR l 25% PDR l 40% PDR l 70% PDR
Drk 4620%/s 4307%/s 3836%/s 3364%/s 2422%/s
Hero 11473%/s 10902%/s 10033%/s 9194%/s 7448%/s
Pally 5120%/s 4939%/s 4674%/s 4410%/s 3876%/s
DS 3174%/s 3068%/s 2906%/s 2743%/s 2421%/s
Aran 5056%/s 4845%/s 4530%/s 4215%/s 3586%/s
Mihile 8942%/s 8407%/s 7602%/s 6796%/s 5188%/s
UKai 20956%/s 19736%/s 17905%/s 16071%/s 12406%/s
TKai 11745%/s 11075%/s 10072%/s 9069%/s 7062%/s

In conclusion, Kaisers suck.

Strictly by hit/s Using fast (3) speed:
Drk= 8.81/s, max dmg of 11.32m/s
Hero= 9.46/s, max dmg 12.06m/s
Pally= 10.37/s, max dmg of 11.05m/s
DS= 6.07/s (using Impact)
Aran= 6.06/s, max dmg of 9.82m/s
Mihile= 8.8/s, max dmg of 9.81m/s
Kaiser= 28.64/s Untransfigured, 19.52/s Transfigured (LOL)

http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=47548&page=24 Pages 24-26

so it seems like hero and pally are on the top dpm ea one has hes good and bad thing i guess

@Tosmi:

I get what you mean but nothing you said was relevant to my comment.
My point was that it's hard to upgrade your range as a Paladin and simply wondering how much %boss he had
seeing I have more than twice his range.

[quote=SilverBladez]You have a 35k range and hit 650k´s with SE?
I assume you have at least 70% Boss damage or more right?

I hit about 700-800k's on bosses with 40% Boss and have a 84k range.
Not much of a difference between your damage and mine.
Or is it really that hard to get a paladins damage up?

Didn't expect it to be this bad...[/quote]

i have all warriors and its easy to hit cap with with all of them if u mange to get 100k+ and decent % boss
besides guys u only think about the damage there is more things that efect ur damage then just the numbers u do and the range u have.. its about the delay of pots buffs and all that.. and with pally godmode i think it gives him a little more? besides.. look at this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfd8nc4kEkU&feature=g-u-u

[quote=PallyCookie]I'm half way there with my 35k range at most bosses. (500k's, 600-650k's with SE) Sure it will drop down when blast hits six times, but not so drastically I won't get that back up with two solid equips.

I haven't put too much effort into funding though, tbh. So it's not really all that hard.[/quote]

You have a 35k range and hit 650k´s with SE?
I assume you have at least 70% Boss damage or more right?

I hit about 700-800k's on bosses with 40% Boss and have a 84k range.
Not much of a difference between your damage and mine.
Or is it really that hard to get a paladins damage up?

Didn't expect it to be this bad...