General

yawnz, with the way ms updates are going. Resistances will be super OP by winter in kms...

[quote=IceCorp]After all this time, Bishops finally got the buff they deserved and now your complaining.[/quote]

im not complaining but it's the truth.

After all this time, Bishops finally got the buff they deserved and now your complaining.

[quote=Oogleberry]True story on AYA getting fixed. But then again, part of me thinks the dodge bonus for AYA [b]would[/b] make BaMs OP, wouldn't it? Stance + dodge skill + insane defense+ conversion + AND blood drain? This would make BaMs better survivors than shadowers.[/quote]

Less survivability than Paladins and less damage than either class though. Besides even if it got fixed I can't imagine deciding to max AYA until after: ADA, FB, TS, Stance, Energizer, and maybe MW. So that is between lvl 164 and 174 before even starting to max AYA. The only skills lower on the totem pole are Dark Gen and Party Shield. So if it did make us OP it wouldn't even be until we are getting close to max lvl.

Even back when Bishops were amazingly powerful with Genesis (not powerful like for bossing but still) they were mostly thought of/used as either:
A) Leech selling. HS+Gen made them the best at this. 50% of all Bishops I met said they only had a bishop to fund their Main.
B) Boss runs to be everyones buff slave. Sadly support classes are often treated badly by those that need them.
C) Map stealing/defending. A single Bishop could occupy most entire maps... and garnered a terrible reputation from this.

Even if they do get ZOMG awesome from JUMP it won't erase 6 years of people thinking of them as utility tools to help their other "real" characters. Which is sad for them but that is how a lot of support classes get viewed. Even if somehow Bishops became the most powerful class in the game most people would still yell at them to stop attacking and heal. So even if they are stronger than BaMs don't expect to see them actually utilize that power all too often. That's just how 90% of the community in this game views them.

Either way IDC. My BaM is amazingly fun to use and powerful enough to be enjoyable without feeling like I am using a broken class. What more could I possibly ask for (other than AYA getting fixed..... and several billion mesos..... and some NX.....).

@ibehold: Power lvlers? They were decent at lvling but pre-bb it was much harder to lvl.
and seriously you replied to my comment about a whole new concept, and now you're not making sense at all. I think you should listen to your own advice about not posting anymore..

I think all mages are equal now. FP has a sort of ultimate( P Myst is in much more use now). I/L are really fast in attacking, Bishops are pro supp[ortive and Batlle Mages are (insert something here).

I don't think you should quit your BTLM, since BTLM's have lot's of fun skills, and my class main skill form 70-100 is Poison mist
LOL! But i still like it

who cares if we're weaker than bishops?
we BaMs aren't made for OP-ness even if we are Resistance. Just enjoy the game

@ReverseExGun: sir, dark element is considered pretty much neutral (evans have dark element . .darkfog, phantom imprint, killer wings)
and they aren't affected by the eweapons . . oh and btw BaM's don't have a dark element
i don't receive damage penalties on skeles like my evan does
so estaffs do nothing for bams except good damage+high speed weapon (no penalties)
all bam skills are neutral

[quote=ReverseExGun]estaff 5~8 is also bad for BaM too cuz BaM is dark element[/quote]

BaMs don't possess the dark element. Even if they did, the staves won't affect the element

[quote=epikdeath]1. adv blessing got NOTHING on energize
2. they dont got ada either way ~ and bams have estaff5~8 to use~ do bishes? no (unless they want a penalty in damage) so bams still have the advantage in magic if you got the money
3. big whoop they got 20% to avoid every attack?
4. 20% ignore is outdone by ada in almost every situation btw (few situations can it beat ada)
and please, go on ill prove that bishops cant outdmg bams~[/quote]

estaff 5~8 is also bad for BaM too cuz BaM is dark element

@ibehold: Its true, but i was actually wayy harer to train pre BB. Getting to 120 was HELL. and they had to wait till that lvl to get to spam ultis. When BaMs came, the other mages, ut evans were almost nothing. You rarely saw an F/p, or I/L, and all Bishes were mostly mules. They defenitley DESERVE jump updates and to be stronger than BaMs. You guys are also good at providing Auras which Stack with Bless and other buffs. Also you guys have moves like the chain one. And have very fast moves.

@ibehold: lol nooo wayyy. They were pretty weak, and often ksed. And since most people lvled off PQs in early lvls they weren't great back then in lvling to.

@nhz213942: That would be wrong. Although they are considered tanks due to their hp, this is Maplestory, not WoW. Nobody needs tankers in this game. I consider them attackers.

EDIT: That was a bit pompous of me. Let me rephrase: I consider them attackers because there isn't really a need for tankers. And, in comparison to a bishop, they'd be the attackers.

@bayliffgeoff: Because I agree with the TS. Battle Mages are kind of getting thrown under the bus in the Jump update.

I have a BaM and greatly enjoy it when I'm not playing my Aran or F/P (both of which I enjoy more).

We will discuss this when it comes to GMS NEXT YEAR people need to chill... like seriously your freaking out about something so far away.

[quote=DemoDango]@treefriends: Please close this thread. This is getting pathetic.[/quote]
A thousand times.

Jump does kind of make resistance pointless. Bowmasters, which currently are beat by WHs in every sense, become on par, perhaps better, than Corsairs. MM's aren't far behind either, with Pierce becoming the strongest move with no cooldown in the game (not counting charging time).

Even if they don't have DPM, Battle Mages are great in parties, and alone grinding. ADA is a must have buff for all classes, ABA gives insane defenses, AYA makes you super fast, chains bringing monsters closer, drain healing you, conversion being a self super hyper body, etc? Even if Bishop's have higher DPM, they will most likely be yelled at to "stop attacking nub hs plz heal me omg I died revive what do you mean there's a cooldown QQ."

[quote=koalakid44]@above the same reason lawyers do, minus pay[/quote]

sooooooo......no reason then? xD

@above the same reason lawyers do, minus pay

@Supermuta: Obviously, we need to suck more. F2

[quote=DemoDango]@koalakid44: Okay, I'll humor you.

They might be an HS beyatch of sorts, but they'll also provide equal if not superior party benefits besides HS. They will replace you, party-demand wise.[/quote]

Hmm, out of curiosity, why are defending bishops as much as you are?

@koalakid44: Okay, I'll humor you.

They might be an HS beyatch of sorts, but they'll also provide equal if not superior party benefits besides HS. They will replace you, party-demand wise.

By the way, edit the above post before you get Basil-jailed.

i like pussicats

i need some conflict so i can get through this boring 1 hr

everyone ignored my inspirationally condescending post on pg 8. QQ4Life

@failftw: You have made an excellent observation, sir. (seriously, thanks for not joining this dumb argument)

@treefriends: Please close this thread. This is getting pathetic.

[quote=danieliu1]nooby bishop should talk.[/quote]
^ point proven

@danielliu1: You don't get it, man. Read the thing I wrote about the speed again. There is a cap on the amount of speed you can get. Yes, elestaves attack very quickly. However, the fastest casting speed BaMs can get on Finishing Blow is somewhere around once every 0.80 seconds. Angel Ray is every 0.72 seconds with Booster on. [i]Angel Ray is faster than the fastest you can possibly get with Finishing Blow.[/i] Hopefully you can understand that 0.80 seconds is a longer period of time than 0.72 seconds.

[quote=danieliu1]nooby bishop should talk.[/quote]

says the one who cant state things right, and calling people idiot

[quote=danieliu1]@nhz213942: nope i just checked no booster.[/quote]

http://spadow.wordpress.com/2011/04/21/kms-ver-1-2-131-spell-of-awakening/

Yes. Bishops get Magic Booster in JUMP.

@danielliu1: http://spadow.wordpress.com/2011/04/21/kms-ver-1-2-131-spell-of-awakening/

ctrl-f --> "booster"

NO I KNOW THAT GMS NEXON WILL NOT STOOP TO THEIR LVL
clerics are an ASSISTING class it just wont add up...
if they do stoop down to thier lvl than imma gunna lose faith in nexon completely

[quote=danieliu1]@nhz213942: nope i just checked no booster.[/quote]

check again, or i need to copy and paste?
or maybe get a SS?
or you want a video?
i can actually do all of those

[quote=DemoDango]@danieliu1: Don't be a fool. Reading your words in my head makes you sound like one already.

Do your research. Angel Ray has a 720ms delay with Booster on. At normal (6) speed, Battle mages' Finishing Blow has a delay of 990ms. Even hitting max speed will only be a four-step increase in speed, and four steps is somewhere around two seconds [[b]edit: I mean 200ms[/b]]. [/quote]
how do you know the ms delay, just wondering

[quote=danieliu1]bishops dont get booster idiot, and finishing blow with a fast staff? ever thought of that? and speed on weapons dont affect any other mages. so BaMs win.[/quote]

1) Bishops get Booster in the Jump update, [i]sir.[/i]
2) I just explained why having fast staves doesn't make you faster. The maximum speed is Faster (2), which you get when you use a Fast staff and Booster.

[quote=danieliu1]bishops dont get booster idiot, and finishing blow with a fast staff? ever thought of that? and speed on weapons dont affect any other mages. so BaMs win.[/quote]

they do after jump, i think >__>
brb lemme check

EDIT: they do get booster, do some research before you call people idiot

[quote=xLabyrinth]BaMs are meant for attacking. Bishops are a support class and will always be. I don't care what the damage percentage of the skills say.[/quote]

to be specific, BaM are tankers, which isnt for attacking

@danieliu1: Don't be a fool. Reading your words in my head makes you sound like one already.

Do your research. Angel Ray has a 720ms delay with Booster on. At normal (6) speed, Battle mages' Finishing Blow has a delay of 990ms. Even hitting max speed will only be a four-step increase in speed, and four steps is somewhere around two seconds [[b]edit: I mean 200ms[/b]]. It's slower.

If you make such claims, you'd better be damn well prepared to back them up or receive hardcore flak from people such as myself who [i]do[/i] have their own research on the topic. Read everything I said above xLabyrinth.

You seem to have a lot of hatred for the Adventurer mages, considering your condescending tone and sarcastic quoting of "original." Think before you type; everyone will think better of you for it.

BaMs are meant for attacking. Bishops are a support class and will always be. I don't care what the damage percentage of the skills say.

@epikdeath:

Hmm, okay, I'll continue the bit about the base defense. Adv Bless also adds 500 of both defense types and Invincible now gives 20% total damage reduction from all hits...

You've been saying that the ADA benefit is making up for more gaps than it's worth.

Adv Bless is stackable, from what I've heard, so wizard elixirs are negligible.
BaMs' attacks are [i]slower[/i] at all times since Bishops get Booster in Jump as well. Take a look at extractions for proof of that.
Angel Ray's vertical range is roughly the same as Paralyze so I'll concede on that.
Buff Mastery's attack bonus is passive. The +50% buff duration is the part that you toggle.
Infinity grants a greater damage buff over its minute than Body Boost. It does have a longer cooldown (by one minute) though, so I'll concede that Body Boost may be somewhat stronger overall.
So it's possible to make reapers appear for flying mobs? I thought you couldn't. I learned something today.
If you count bishops' def ignore as equivalent (or outmatched) by ADA, then Adv. Bless tips the scales back to bishops.
Arcane Aim essentially matches Body Boost, assuming that the BaM is using ADA. Body Boost is on half of the time, and there is a 20-60% damage difference when activated, making the average boost overall 40%. Arcane Aim grants the exact same bonus when the peak is reached.

Addendum to the Shell point (beating the dead horse on this one): the cooldown on Magic Shell is 90 seconds. Lolwut @ that. The duration is 20 seconds, though...still, that means 4.5 minutes for 1 minute of mobile invinciblity as opposed to 7 minutes for 1 minute of stay-in-one-place-to-not-die.

okay, you fools, BaM's were never about dmg in the first place; their specialty lies in the fact that they are undoubtedly one of the most all around balanced + self sufficient classes there is.
Passive drain (healing and attack worked into one) + ridiculous def/mdef?
3 versatile auras?
conversion (super hb) which results in a near 50:50 hp:mp ratio?
ultimate (dark gen)?
mobility (adv tele/aya)?
rush type move (ADC)?
full blown Stance?
69 ways to mob + optional combo followup (finisher)?
party shield?
Twister (attacking while invincible AND healing from drain) for pot restricted maps?

BaMs are arguably considered both support AND attackers~

We are like a f*cking super hybrid of all the jobs put together. Comon now (:

As far as I'm concerned though it's highly unlikely even if bishops do manage to out dmg us they are and always will be everybody's HS b**tch, and even if they do, our adaptability and versatility more than puts us at an advantage.

@DemoDango: and BaM's defense will never be surpassed by a bishop (energize multiplies your defense by 2.5x making bams most likely the 2nd highest defense class next to pally)
alright magic shell beats party shield then~ i got nothing to say about that
infinity cannot be always activated and bams have a 90% stance making a bams stance much better

and to the things you mentioned above
buff mastery has pretty much the equal +magic as ada's passive while buff mastery is dispellable (ada can't be dispelled)
bishops do in fact have more mastery
and we do have the same crit rates
the attacks are generally the same speed but bams have other skills to make up for it like battlemastery and such ~ also finishing blow has a farther vertical range than angel ray ( i believe ) which is better in some cases
adv bless isn't that much better than a wizard elixir for mages~ just 5 attack
the def ignore is from arcane aim that you listed later on and can be pretty much be countered by ada's general %range increase
bahamut is pretty much a bams reapers but they have their own ups and downs
bahamut is much better for lhc
reapers better for just general slaughtering and some bosses ( like zak ) ( i can get like 4 reapers at a time when its at body and summoning a lot )
infinity is pretty much comparable to a bams body boost~ however, infinity isn't in full effect the whole time while body boost is ( iirc infinity starts weak and grows stronger over time )

[quote=DemoDango]@14thsushi:
@treefriends:
@epikdeath:

After Jump, Bishops have:
Buff Mastery
90% mastery total (25% base + 50% + 15% from Holy whatever-it-is)
45% crit rate, same as BaMs
Faster attacks
Adv. Bless
Constant Def ignore
Bahamut
Infinity
Arcane Aim

Battle mages get everything listed by epikdeath, though Twister Spin hits once per second if I recall correctly. Its main point is to become invincible.
However, he fails to realize that Bishops share many of the things he says BaMs have.
These are:
High defense (BaMs almost never use Blue Aura, and Bishops have their own self-defense buffs and so on)
A party shield-type skill (Magic Shell is, in fact, superior because it allows the members to remain mobile)
Stance (Infinity has a 50% stance effect)[/quote]

Im pretty sure Bishops have a 55% crit rate as holy focus adds +50% crit rate

Seriously, I think you wasted a thread and everyones time here -_-"
You say bishops are gonna be stronger than bams. From what I read, bams get a little stronger than they are now. So they don't get nerfed one bit while Bishops get buffed up a crap load. Understand this, if you don't like your bam anymore because another class just happens to get stronger then fine. quit. Go make a bishop or whatever. it is your opinion and if you continue to argue about Bishops being stronger every time you post/reply then you're wasting your time. It's not about how OP a class is, it's about the fun you have with it. Thats what the majority of maplers do not understand like you. So don't post up threads like this because it wouldn't matter anyway.

@14thsushi:
@treefriends:
@epikdeath:

After Jump, Bishops have:
Buff Mastery
90% mastery total (25% base + 50% + 15% from Holy whatever-it-is)
45% crit rate, same as BaMs
Faster attacks
Adv. Bless
Constant Def ignore
Bahamut
Infinity
Arcane Aim

Battle mages get everything listed by epikdeath, though Twister Spin hits once per second if I recall correctly. Its main point is to become invincible.
However, he fails to realize that Bishops share many of the things he says BaMs have.
These are:
High defense (BaMs almost never use Blue Aura, and Bishops have their own self-defense buffs and so on)
A party shield-type skill (Magic Shell is, in fact, superior because it allows the members to remain mobile)
Stance (Infinity has a 50% stance effect)

Sorry to all bishops, but they need to be nerfed a bit. Attacking classes such as F/P I/L and BaM need some serious upgrades. BB was not enough.
When I say that Bishops need a nerf I'm only saying angel ray needs a little nerf. It's a little too powerful for a supportive class. Give the real power to the ones who most of the work. Keep bishop as a support and give them a smaller cool down (15 secs) on Gen. They have less power on Angel Ray, but they still have SR and HS AND Gen AND Bahmut.

@above it would be weird if a supportive job is stronger than a tanker job

Well bishops are suppose to be a more support class. It would make sense their buffs would be better. o.o
I don't think I'll be quitting my BaM any time soon. I rather like it and I've shelled out a bit of money for it. xD Depends on the player. If you wanna be all powerful, go for it and go AM.

@above thats what i thought

[quote=nhz213942]now you led up to a thought of mine,
like TS said, all the char in kms, lv150
but does the BaM has an estaff?[/quote]

Considering I am 99% sure there AREN'T E-Staves in KMS...